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Half of those guys are responsible for drafting and deciding to play said players.
None of us like to see players thrown into battle before they are ready, but the simple truth is that we really had/have no other choice.
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Hyperbole much?
First of all, hyperbole isn't a verb. Your adorable attempt to use it as one aside, perhaps you'd care to point out the exaggeration. If you're satisfied with the team, its leadership and the organization in general, that is absolutely your prerogative. It's mine to be as vehement in my dissatisfaction as I care to be. Trust me when I tell you, no matter how venomous my words may seem, they don't come close to portraying my actual feelings on the matter. You may not agree but, I assure you, I am not exaggerating.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I am beginning to agree with you.
This team stinks and needs a total overhaul. This just isn't working.
I was at the game and we were never in it.....it was over mid first quarter.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Hyperbole much?
First of all, hyperbole isn't a verb. Your adorable attempt to use it as one aside, perhaps you'd care to point out the exaggeration. If you're satisfied with the team, its leadership and the organization in general, that is absolutely your prerogative. It's mine to be as vehement in my dissatisfaction as I care to be. Trust me when I tell you, no matter how venomous my words may seem, they don't come close to portraying my actual feelings on the matter. You may not agree but, I assure you, I am not exaggerating.
After the coaching, at some point the players need to start making plays and be held accountable.
The one thing we both agree on is that we are not showing enough progress. You tent to blame the Coaching and I tend to put more of the blame on the players themselves. Many of our players have yet to prove themselves, but to a man all of our Coach's and FO personnel have proven to be capable in their respective jobs at some point. Did they suddenly forget how to perform them here?
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First of all, hyperbole isn't a verb.
Who cares ... you got the point. 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
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Legend
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Hyperbole much?
First of all, hyperbole isn't a verb. Your adorable attempt to use it as one aside, perhaps you'd care to point out the exaggeration. If you're satisfied with the team, its leadership and the organization in general, that is absolutely your prerogative. It's mine to be as vehement in my dissatisfaction as I care to be. Trust me when I tell you, no matter how venomous my words may seem, they don't come close to portraying my actual feelings on the matter. You may not agree but, I assure you, I am not exaggerating.
how about irony?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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He makes this proclamation like his future with the club hasn't already been determined passed the day the new ownership takes control.
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I think that Shurmur almost has to play Little this week, having put him on notice. If he has another bad game, and stupid antics, then you sit him for a game or 2.
I think it depends on how he looks in practice. If he looks good then start him... if he looks like crap sit him and maybe, MAYBE bring him off the bench.
bad thing is it's a short week.
I don't think so. I think you sit him immediately and motivate him with the pine. I think we would get better results with Momass, Benjamin, and Norwood/Cribbs/Gordon. At least we know Momass, Norwood, and Cribbs can catch.
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Half of those guys are responsible for drafting and deciding to play said players.
None of us like to see players thrown into battle before they are ready, but the simple truth is that we really had/have no other choice.
There is always a choice to play or not play a player. You just have to ignore the media/fan hype and be the coach.
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All Pro
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In reality, all of this is just symptomatic of a MUCH bigger problem. At its most fundamental, you have a president who phoned in his regime, hired an incompetent coach as some form of nepotistic favoritism, then hired two more head coaches to basically do his job for him, but are basically hog-tied because they have no real power, so no one is really in charge.
We were sold a bill of goods by an over-rated, over-hyped blowhard who is so in love with his own voice, he doesn't actually care what comes out of his mouth, and could care less what happens to this franchise once he's twaddled his fat ass back to the Pacific Northwest. 99% of the fan base bought into this B.S. hook, line & sinker. This is what we're left with.
CalDawg nails it.
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Half of those guys are responsible for drafting and deciding to play said players.
None of us like to see players thrown into battle before they are ready, but the simple truth is that we really had/have no other choice.
There is always a choice to play or not play a player. You just have to ignore the media/fan hype and be the coach.
Yes but the simple truth is that half of our team has little or no experience.
I'll take young inexperienced talented over experienced with no talent any day.
Eventually these young guys need to mature and start producing.
If that means giving them some tough love, then so be it.
The way I see it is that this team has no place to go but up and I would like to see them take into the games a nothing to lose, leave it all on the field attitude.
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Agreed, but you have to have someone worthy of playing to effectively pull off a shake up.
We have NOBODY that is better to put in at either of the Guard spots.... we are what we are at those positions.
Sadly, the same thing goes for our secondary. When your only two choices are Hagg and Young, you don't really have any choices.
For the interior line, Ryan Miller was drafted in the 5th round. He may not be better but he couldn't be worse.
Our secondary is a severe problem, but take a look at the depth chart and tell me who you think the next coaching staff will keep?
Here's what I think we have left on defense when the next full-time coaching staff takes over. I think we'll have a regime change this year, but these are the only ones that I think will remain on the team next year.
DE: Sheard
DT: Taylor, Rubin, Winn, Hughes
LB: Jackson, Fort, Robertson, Johnson
CB: Haden, Wade
S: Ward
Maybe make the team: Acho & Carder (to see what they can contribute)
On offense, here's what I think remains after the next full-time regime takes over.
QB: Weeden (only because he's a first rounder), McCoy
RB: Richardson, Ogbonnaya (yeah, he's better than Hardesty or Jackson)
FB: None
TE: Cameron
WR: Massaquoi (seems best chemistry with Weeden), Benjamin (as returner), Norwood (because he can catch the ball in the slot)
OL: Thomas, Mack, Schwartz (only because he's a recent selection)
That's pretty much it.
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Just do it. Anybody can be the designated dropper and play hard for the ball. Not a gut check, but a reality check. We are allowing to much to slide. Blatimore may wax us, so mix in some new stuff and people. Play to win, call a sharper offense. We do not match up well (yet), so equalize it. Shurm would be hard pressed to prove this past week's player mix was our best chance to win. Maybe so. But the same folks seem to give us the same results. The same play mix seems lame and the special teams, penalties, and secondary are killing us. Three and outs and interceptions. Get ready and play. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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"And I don't think that our OG's should be immunized either."
Immunize hell,let's euthanize them.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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"And I don't think that our OG's should be immunized either."
Immunize hell,let's euthanize them.
 
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j/c
I'll get called out for this I know. But tonight, instead of being on here griping about this, that and the other thing, I went to the 7th and 8th grade volleyball games. Had a good time. Even got to be the line judge for the 7th graders. My daughter is....what they call a manager....for the team (i.e.....she shags balls and gives them water, and sits on the bench eating popcorn).
Another evening well spent - just like Sunday afternoon was well spent going to her game.
Came home from the games tonight, and spent 30 minutes playing v-ball with her. Now it's time for homework, then bed.
I'll let the Browns deal with their problems - I'm too busy living life to worry about it.
I originally cancelled work for friday so I could stay up late to watch the game thursday night. I changed my mind.
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Eric Hagg was inactive yesterday after being our starter for 2 games. Was he good in those 2 games? No. But it was his first time starting. Was he godawful? I didn't see that.
Little has had drop problems for 2 years. He's been a starter for many of them. Is he put on the inactive list? Nope. He starts again.
Jordan Norwood is a sure handed possession receiver, the very type of receiver we need on those 3rd downs. Where's he at? Inactive.
Just doesn't make much sense.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Jordan Norwood,ah yes the guy that's been around for acoupla years but never sees the field during the season.
One poster gives him all the attributes of a pro bowler and you call him a sure handed possession type.
It's obvious to me he should change his name to "Hehatesme" that's the only reason I can see for this guy not to be playing.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I originally cancelled work for friday so I could stay up late to watch the game thursday night. I changed my mind.
Now you know the reason I record the games. I can depress myself in installments, instead of all-at-once.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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j/c
I'll get called out for this I know. But tonight, instead of being on here griping about this, that and the other thing, I went to the 7th and 8th grade volleyball games. Had a good time. Even got to be the line judge for the 7th graders. My daughter is....what they call a manager....for the team (i.e.....she shags balls and gives them water, and sits on the bench eating popcorn).
Another evening well spent - just like Sunday afternoon was well spent going to her game.
Came home from the games tonight, and spent 30 minutes playing v-ball with her. Now it's time for homework, then bed.
I'll let the Browns deal with their problems - I'm too busy living life to worry about it.
I originally cancelled work for friday so I could stay up late to watch the game thursday night. I changed my mind.
I'm quite certain you don't have a FaceBook page, you need one. This post is a prime example of the mundane drivel posted on FaceBook that many feel the need to share their wonderful daily life with everyone. Nobody really cares.
But hey, I'm tickled you are re-evaluating your priorities and life is good.
Back on topic, CalDawg, you nailed it. Two years ago I would have said BS. Now, I agree. What exactly are Ray Rhodes, Gil Haskell, Whipple actually doing other than collect a large paycheck? This is absurd.
Let the countdown to Haslem begin.
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Legend
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j/c
I'll get called out for this I know. But tonight, instead of being on here griping about this, that and the other thing, I went to the 7th and 8th grade volleyball games. Had a good time. Even got to be the line judge for the 7th graders. My daughter is....what they call a manager....for the team (i.e.....she shags balls and gives them water, and sits on the bench eating popcorn).
Another evening well spent - just like Sunday afternoon was well spent going to her game.
Came home from the games tonight, and spent 30 minutes playing v-ball with her. Now it's time for homework, then bed.
I'll let the Browns deal with their problems - I'm too busy living life to worry about it.
I originally cancelled work for friday so I could stay up late to watch the game thursday night. I changed my mind.
Life Trumps Football Every Time 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Jordan Norwood,ah yes the guy that's been around for a couple of years but never sees the field during the season.
One poster gives him all the attributes of a pro bowler and you call him a sure handed possession type.
It's obvious to me he should change his name to "Hehatesme" that's the only reason I can see for this guy not to be playing.
Or that the two guys you quoted really know nothing about Norwood.
Gosh, which option do you think is more likely?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I'm quite certain you don't have a FaceBook page,
I'm quite certain I DO have a facebook page. I'm also quite certain you look stupid right now. Why? I'm quite certain your "take" on the Browns means.....well, it's your opinion.
Hey, if, in the future, YOU turn the Browns around with your knowledge, why don't you put it on my facebook page. Thanks. Until then......carry on with your drivel.
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Isn't everyone on this board a MMQB?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Legend
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Isn't everyone on this board a MMQB?
Many - some are Sunday evening qb's, and there are a few that wait till Tuesday, or even Wednesday.
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jk
I don't like the "threat" approach. I say just take him out of the starting lineup and decrease his snaps by 30-50-%. Make him earn his way to more playing time (or less if he continues with the dropsies). He hasn't established himself in this league and hasn't earned a warning. Shoot, you really want to make a point, deactivate in favor of Norwood,
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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On the same note , lets all remember it is Heckert who brought in Little / Gordon / Lauvao / Pinky and so on ..
..and I guarantee you all 4 will have 6+ years of NFL career and I hated the Little pick, esp. because of his diva-like antice that are resurfacing now
where are Robo and Veikune again?
The prospects Heckert drafted ALL have and had NFL talent...even late round guys like Asante and Geathers have bounced around the league which is a sign of talent as aother GMs were high on them too
The real problem is and was that Heckert inherited a roster less talented than most expansion teams have gotten...he got 3 legit starters and I'm still not sold on 1 of them (Mack...everyone talks about the lack of push from the middle OL, well Mack is 1 of them too isn't he?)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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You tent to blame the Coaching and I tend to put more of the blame on the players themselves. Many of our players have yet to prove themselves, but to a man all of our Coach's and FO personnel have proven to be capable in their respective jobs at some point. Did they suddenly forget how to perform them here?
Litmus test: since Shurmur & Co. took over, how many TDs has the offense scored in the 1st Q after a week of preparation and scheming for the opponent? How many in the 3rd Q after halftime adjustments? Answer those two questions and you will have the answer to yours. And BTW, we're on a nine game losing streak.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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You tent to blame the Coaching and I tend to put more of the blame on the players themselves. Many of our players have yet to prove themselves, but to a man all of our Coach's and FO personnel have proven to be capable in their respective jobs at some point. Did they suddenly forget how to perform them here?
Litmus test: since Shurmur & Co. took over, how many TDs has the offense scored in the 1st Q after a week of preparation and scheming for the opponent? How many in the 3rd Q after halftime adjustments? Answer those two questions and you will have the answer to yours. And BTW, we're on a nine game losing streak.
I don't have to ask those questions as they are common knowledge.
"What we currently have available is what we have currently available". Translation ... these are the players we have and only they can turn this thing around this year ... Calling for blowing up the team after 3 games into the season is futile. If at the end of the year Jimmy decides to wipe the slate clean, then so be it, but we still have 13 games left on our schedule. It's gut check time ... it's not the time to throw in the towel on the season. Playoffs where never a realistic goal for this team, but I would like to see this thing through and see if we can finish with a strong effort.
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I would like to see this thing through and see if we can finish with a strong effort.
That's my point, it's not going to happen. Shurmur doesn't know what the #^@% he's doing. He's unqualified and in over his head. I don't expect him to be fired mid-season, just like I don't expect to see more than (MAYBE) a win or two. Improvement? Individual player improvement is highly likely as the rookies learn the speed of the game and gain experience. Team improvement is highly unlikely until a HC is hired who actually knows what to do with the team. This was a stupid, stupid hire to begin with. All the hopes, wishes, wants and would likes in the world are not going to change that.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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It's gut check time ... it's not the time to throw in the towel on the season. Playoffs where never a realistic goal for this team, but I would like to see this thing through and see if we can finish with a strong effort.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Guilty as charged. btw, How long did it take you to knock the dust off of that old LP?
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Classics don't collect dust.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Classics don't collect dust.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Classics don't collect dust.
Touché ... Boy y'ins don't miss a thing
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 09/25/12 01:36 PM.
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I would like to see this thing through and see if we can finish with a strong effort.
That's my point, it's not going to happen. Shurmur doesn't know what the #^@% he's doing. He's unqualified and in over his head. I don't expect him to be fired mid-season, just like I don't expect to see more than (MAYBE) a win or two. Improvement? Individual player improvement is highly likely as the rookies learn the speed of the game and gain experience. Team improvement is highly unlikely until a HC is hired who actually knows what to do with the team. This was a stupid, stupid hire to begin with. All the hopes, wishes, wants and would likes in the world are not going to change that.
Holy smokes! We're some dropped passes away from being 2-1 or even 3-0 against 3 of the better teams in the league. Shurmur's not the horrible coach some are making him out to be. Half our roster consists of 1st and 2nd year players! There isn't a coach in the league that can produce a winner out of the gates with that. Most here predicted that we would start out slow due to the learning curve with a lot of mistakes and miscues. We're 3 games into the season and the knee jerkers are calling for heads to roll. For crisssakes, give them the time you all said it would take.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I know it just kills me how people said ok we addressed the offense this year, its going to take time. now they dont understand what the words "take time" actually mean.
They have not looked as bad as some would claim.
Last year it was we are so horrid on offense its making the defense look better.
This year the offense is actually causing the defense to play. I dread this place after the Ravens game. :shutter:
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I would like to see this thing through and see if we can finish with a strong effort.
That's my point, it's not going to happen. Shurmur doesn't know what the #^@% he's doing. He's unqualified and in over his head. I don't expect him to be fired mid-season, just like I don't expect to see more than (MAYBE) a win or two. Improvement? Individual player improvement is highly likely as the rookies learn the speed of the game and gain experience. Team improvement is highly unlikely until a HC is hired who actually knows what to do with the team. This was a stupid, stupid hire to begin with. All the hopes, wishes, wants and would likes in the world are not going to change that.
Holy smokes! We're some dropped passes away from being 2-1 or even 3-0 against 3 of the better teams in the league. Shurmur's not the horrible coach some are making him out to be. Half our roster consists of 1st and 2nd year players! There isn't a coach in the league that can produce a winner out of the gates with that. Most here predicted that we would start out slow due to the learning curve with a lot of mistakes and miscues. We're 3 games into the season and the knee jerkers are calling for heads to roll. For crisssakes, give them the time you all said it would take.
I agree with you here.
My issue is that we weren't ready to play when the game started. We were Romeo-style not ready to play at 1:00pm EDT.
And that after TR's inspiring speech even.
I'm not ready to fire anyone yet...but I blame the coaches for the team not being ready for the start of any game. That has to stop.
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I agree...we shouldve come out ready to play...
My question is where does the fault lie there?
Did we run bad plays meaning that our gameplanning was subpar?
Did we come out unmotivated to succeed?
Were we unprepared to execute the plays that were gameplanned in?
Is our pregame routine unsatisfactory?
My one issue with game readiness and that whole idea...
Is it on the coaches to motivate the players? You play 16-23 days out of 365 per year, if you cant get up for it, and prepare yourself mentally and physically to play a football game in the NFL...
Getting physically ready involves stretching and getting loose. Thats doable in the hours they have from when they get there...
Getting mentally ready isnt something a coach is required to do...What does a coach say that gets a guy more prepared to focus on the upcoming game...the guys are professionals and thats something they should be able to do on their own.
A coach is supposed to be a motivator that is true, but you bring it out of your guys...if its not there, how do you get it?
Or is our preparation not good? Do we plan several plays for the beginning of the game that just dont work? Are they bad plays? Did we not practice them enough to get ready to use them in a game?
Our offense has started out on life support in all 3 games this season and that must change.
Our defense played 1 very good game, and since has seemed slow, lethargic and unable to tackle...what happened?
Right now we have more questions than we have answers...idk how to get said answers either
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Give me one, simply one reason Shurmur should remain the HC. Name one thing he has done right. Point out one quality that stands out that leads you to believe he is anything approaching a leader and an NFL quality HC. For that matter, just list one major accomplishment on his resume that qualified him for the job in the first place, (other than his nepotistic relationship with Holmgren & Reid that is).
Insisting on more time is not going to make Shurmur anything more than he already is; an inept, unqualified, abysmal failure who is already out the door. If you think he's the future of the franchise, you're delusional. He's gone at the end of the season, and he and just about everyone else knows it. Maybe even you.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Good points KingSteve,
For the sake of arguments I would like to enter into this debate the fact that the Coach's today (after this new CBA) have one hand tied behind their backs, in that they only have so many practices of full contact. What further exacerbates their dilemma of getting their players properly motivated and ready for a game. Is when dealing with young and inexperienced players who are put in a position that much is asked and expected of them.
I voiced my concerns over this issue before the CBA was signed.
I think that it has been evident outside of Cleveland, within the League as a whole.
Meh, perhaps its just my back ground speaking my belief outload, that you can never have enough training and preparation.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shurmur threatens to sit Greg
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