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While there is a point to be made about the prep time and amount of time that can be dedicated to full pad tackling, the playing field is level, and all 32 teams are faced with these restriction. They certainly can't be used as an excuse for poor game planning or lack of preparation.
The Browns and the Saints are the only two teams with an 0-3 record. Ironically, they're also the only two teams without a head coach. Coincidence? I think not.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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The real problem is and was that Heckert inherited a roster less talented than most expansion teams have gotten...he got 3 legit starters and I'm still not sold on 1 of them (Mack...everyone talks about the lack of push from the middle OL, well Mack is 1 of them too isn't he?)
My question is: how many players have we actually developed? I look at playeres on the Giants , Steelers and 49ers and see some scrawny college dudes that they drafted who 2-3 years into the league are noticeably bigger stronger and faster and more advances technique wise. JPP and Aldon Smith are 2 that come right off the top of my head. I don't see that development with Browns and I wonder why not.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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While there is a point to be made about the prep time and amount of time that can be dedicated to full pad tackling, the playing field is level, and all 32 teams are faced with these restriction. They certainly can't be used as an excuse for poor game planning or lack of preparation.
The Browns and the Saints are the only two teams with an 0-3 record. Ironically, they're also the only two teams without a head coach. Coincidence? I think not.
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What further exacerbates their dilemma of getting their players properly motivated and ready for a game. Is when dealing with young and inexperienced players who are put in a position that much is asked and expected of them.
It's true that this dilemma extends beyond Cleveland, but no other team has the inexperience, that we currently have starting and that's true in all three phases of the game.
It's a bigger challenge then you might think.
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Taylor would qualify...he was extremely raw coming out....that's why the timing of his injury was so devastating to me, as this season was so important to his development from AVG/good to much better levels
We're seeing signs of life out of Cameron who's early in year 2....
Many posters on here trash the likes of Pinkston, Skrine etc as if these guys are in year 3 or 4, yet they haven't even played 20 NFL games
People talk about that "it takes time" but then act as if a week and the last game were 1 complete season and expect the raw players to look significantly better after 3 more practices.....it's crazy
Remember when Mangini started out 1-11 and won the last 5? Everyone but me was excited because we did it with scrubs and old farts...if we do something similar THIS season, it's for real and we can look forward to see Weeden, TRich, Benjamin, Gordon, Cameron, Winn, Hughes, Fort, Robertson, Skrine etc continue to build on that in 2013
If posters back then could rationalize such a dysmal start with a "fake" building process under Mangini they should be extatic about this version....IF they look significantly better in the 2nd half of the season, which I expect
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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IF they look significantly better in the 2nd half of the season, which I expect
and they definitely should (barring catastrophic injury issues). not only from a developmental standpoint, but a schedule standpoint as well.
Oakland, KC, Washington, Denver, Pitt
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The real problem is and was that Heckert inherited a roster less talented than most expansion teams have gotten...he got 3 legit starters and I'm still not sold on 1 of them (Mack...everyone talks about the lack of push from the middle OL, well Mack is 1 of them too isn't he?)
My question is: how many players have we actually developed? I look at playeres on the Giants , Steelers and 49ers and see some scrawny college dudes that they drafted who 2-3 years into the league are noticeably bigger stronger and faster and more advances technique wise. JPP and Aldon Smith are 2 that come right off the top of my head. I don't see that development with Browns and I wonder why not.
call me when our guys have been on the team for 2-3 years. Then I will discuss that. Hard to discuss when most are rookies and 1st year players.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Taylor would qualify...he was extremely raw coming out....that's why the timing of his injury was so devastating to me, as this season was so important to his development from AVG/good to much better levels
We're seeing signs of life out of Cameron who's early in year 2....
Many posters on here trash the likes of Pinkston, Skrine etc as if these guys are in year 3 or 4, yet they haven't even played 20 NFL games
People talk about that "it takes time" but then act as if a week and the last game were 1 complete season and expect the raw players to look significantly better after 3 more practices.....it's crazy
Remember when Mangini started out 1-11 and won the last 5? Everyone but me was excited because we did it with scrubs and old farts...if we do something similar THIS season, it's for real and we can look forward to see Weeden, TRich, Benjamin, Gordon, Cameron, Winn, Hughes, Fort, Robertson, Skrine etc continue to build on that in 2013
If posters back then could rationalize such a dysmal start with a "fake" building process under Mangini they should be extatic about this version....IF they look significantly better in the 2nd half of the season, which I expect
I agree. Its amazing how people forget so fast what was and what is and the difference between the 2. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Interestingly enough, I think we look very very similar in the mistake making...in the undisciplined, and unfiery play...
perhaps coaching is the common denominator?
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I am not talking about the 1st year players. I am referring to the Browns since the reincarnation 20+ years ago.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I am not talking about the 1st year players. I am referring to the Browns since the reincarnation 20+ years ago.
20+ years ago the Browns were building the basis that became a SB winner and consistent contender. Bill Belichick, Nick Saban, Pat Hill and others on the coaching staff, Ozzie just promoted in FO, etc.
#gmstrong
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Give me one, simply one reason Shurmur should remain the HC.
He's 3 games into his second season as a first time HC. Half his roster consists of 1st or 2nd year players. He hasn't made any ridiculous "Romeo" moves or done anything that indicates he won't develop as a HC. The coaching carousel hasn't worked for us. I wasn't thrilled with the selection of Shurmur as our coach, but he's here and we should give him a chance.
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Name one thing he has done right. Point out one quality that stands out that leads you to believe he is anything approaching a leader and an NFL quality HC.
I may be in the minority, but I don't think his game plans are awful... as we've had our chances in every game. Execution problems were the issue more than the play calling. Weeden's underthrows, dropped passes and missed interceptions and missing 3 key defensive starters are the reason we are 0-3 and not 2-1 against quality opponents. Experienced athletes make those plays. Now if you can prove that the performance issues are the HC's fault, then you have a point.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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The coaching carousel hasn't worked for us. I wasn't thrilled with the selection of Shurmur as our coach, but he's here and we should give him a chance.
He's gone, jfen like it or not. His days are numbered. His teams are unprepared, his scheming is ineffective, or possibly even non-existent. His game time decision making has no fire, and his play calling is absurd at times. I don't care if he's been here fifteen minutes and his players are all two-year-olds, it's not working. He'll be lucky to squeak out two wins. Haslam will can his ass.
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Now if you can prove that the performance issues are the HC's fault, then you have a point.
If performance doesn't fall under his purview, what does?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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We were sold that we had multiple offensive "geniuses" on our team between Holmgren, Haskell, Childress, Wipple and Shurmur and collectively they have created one of the worst offenses in the NFL.
Is Holmgren really getting to put his 2 cents in w/ the offense? I know he's helping get the players, but once their on the team, he's not contributing.
My big question is how much Childress is really contributing. Shurmur seems pretty darn cocky to me. I wonder if he's holding Childress back . . .
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We were sold that we had multiple offensive "geniuses" on our team between Holmgren, Haskell, Childress, Wipple and Shurmur and collectively they have created one of the worst offenses in the NFL.
Is Holmgren really getting to put his 2 cents in w/ the offense? I know he's helping get the players, but once their on the team, he's not contributing.
My big question is how much Childress is really contributing. Shurmur seems pretty darn cocky to me. I wonder if he's holding Childress back . . .
Holmgren is at least hiring guys and supposedly talking to Shurmur. If we aren't using him then what was the point in hiring him?
The rest, well...I think it's becoming more and more obvious that the guy who was key in Philly wasn't Shurmur, Childress or anyone else. It's Andy Reid. Or at least, was Andy Reid until he started getting too pass happy.
Another reason why coaching trees are stupid, pointless, and sucker bad front offices and owners. Just because coach X was the offensive/defensive coordinator or QB coach, doesn't mean he knows how to run a team.
you had a good run Hank.
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Another reason why coaching trees are stupid, pointless, and sucker bad front offices and owners. Just because coach X was the offensive/defensive coordinator or QB coach, doesn't mean he knows how to run a team.
But look at all of the success those who came through Belichick have had. 
yebat' Putin
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I feel like failing coaching trees happen because the guys that exit those trees havent done enough...
The best coaches are the best coaches because theyre detail oriented, and they give very specific jobs to their guys...so to open up their decision making to everything...they arent prepared as theyve had VERY specific direction during their time
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I agree. Being a head coach requires a different skill set and a different termperment than being a really good O or D coordinator.... and some great O and D coordinators just aren't prepared to make that change.
People look at a guy and think... well his offense or defense was tops in the league for 3 or 4 years... therefore he will make a good HC... the two are largely unrelated. It's like taking your top salesman and making him a manager... it may or may not work.
yebat' Putin
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I agree. Being a head coach requires a different skill set and a different termperment than being a really good O or D coordinator.... and some great O and D coordinators just aren't prepared to make that change.
People look at a guy and think... well his offense or defense was tops in the league for 3 or 4 years... therefore he will make a good HC... the two are largely unrelated. It's like taking your top salesman and making him a manager... it may or may not work.
Agree 100%. If you're keeping score, that may be 3 times in the last week. Although I'm sure I've disagreed with you 3x time that amount.
I would imagine hiring a head coach and projecting whether or not the head coach will be good is no different than picking a leader in any walk of life ... as you alluded to.
The best scenario is when you can get a guy that is already proven.
If Shurmur is canned, we should only be going after one guy and one guy only ... Cowher. Haslam needs to do whatever it takes to get him to come here ... make him highest paid coach ... whatever.
Then we as fans need to give him time to do his thing. He will have losses, he will have losing seasons, he will make questionable decisions. But damn, the microscope that coaches and players are under in this town is far beyond reasonable.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Then we as fans need to give him time to do his thing.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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If Shurmur is canned, we should only be going after one guy and one guy only ... Cowher.
What about Gruden?
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If Shurmur is canned, we should only be going after one guy and one guy only ... Cowher.
What about Gruden?
I think Grudens fire would be a benefit after the team going through two years of Ho Hum Pat Shurmur.
I have no interest in Bill Cowher, dude couldn't win a SB for 15 years, and if he ever has another HC job it's obviously not going to be for 15 years.
The Steelers won a SB because of Dick Lebeau's scheming and the talent, not because of Cowher.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I would take Cowher. but not sure why u think he stinks so bad, I thnk he is a solid coach and would love to have him.... could it be his Steeler experience that has u biased?
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If Shurmur is canned, we should only be going after one guy and one guy only ... Cowher.
What about Gruden?
If the goal is to give me reason to jam forks into my eye sockets, this would be a great plan.
If the goal is to build a football team, you should keep looking.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I would take Cowher. but not sure why u think he stinks so bad, I thnk he is a solid coach and would love to have him.... could it be his Steeler experience that has u biased?
I think he is a great coach, Will likely be in the HOF.
I just don't think he's going to go anywhere and be able to build them into a winner, because he didn't do any of the build in Pittsburgh.
If we had a solid under achieving team that needed a spark? (Think what Harbaugh did for SF) Then yeah.
And I prefer the 4-3.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think that Big Mike will also be in the HOF some day.
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Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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As a coach...
Yes as a coach
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Will be interesting to see what Shurmur does with Little after yet another 3-drop performance...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The guy has talent, so you can't just deactive him, especially with Mo and Cribbs hurting...
And "not starting" means nothing.
I think you just have to try and push through.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Will be interesting to see what Shurmur does with Little after yet another 3-drop performance...
I agree with your take in another thread. Hes not a natural receiver. Probably never will be.
Im starting to become indifferent on the guy. Wouldnt mind seeing him replaced.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Round 2 Pick 58 Baltimore Ravens Torrey Smith WR Maryland ACC Round 2 Pick 59 Cleveland Browns Greg Little WR North Carolina ACC 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Smith did drop a lot of passes last year. (just to be fair)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He also broke out with 3 TDs one week. So I picked him up in FF and started him. And went on to have 1 catch for 1 yard that week. 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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He also broke out with 3 TDs one week.
So I picked him up in FF and started him.
And went on to have 1 catch for 1 yard that week.
Why couldn't you have picked him and Flacco this week? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I really wanted Randall Cobb when we took Little but that is another story and Little has talent to be a fantastic receiver. The thing that gives me promise for Little is the fact that he is a hands catcher and not a body catcher. When the defender is draped all over him, he isn't thinking and he makes the catch the majority of receivers will drop.
This is a difficult situation to handle. Send him to a shrink. teach him to juggle eggs. Hell, I would give Gordon and Benjamin the start against the Giants and take some of the pressure off of Little.
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yeah I don't know what his issue is - I'm worried it is more mental than anything. The ball is right there and just slips right through his hadns... that TD that wasn't was just heartbreaking.
<><
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Will be interesting to see what Shurmur does with Little after yet another 3-drop performance...
of course Norwood would be first up to replace him and he had 3 drops of his own. 2 on the last freaking drive where Little bailed him out with a great catch.
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maybe we can bench the WR coach? 
<><
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The guy has talent, so you can't just deactive him, especially with Mo and Cribbs hurting...
And "not starting" means nothing.
I think you just have to try and push through.
I agree and also with your next post, that Little is not a natural WR.
He was a RB made to be a WR.
I also think that he would be better served on this team as the #3 WR.
Problem is we need to find another starter or two. (Moe is a FA at the end of this season).
I look for us to draft a WR next April, but we really need another CB and will probably go that route early in the first round.
I would look for us to finally look to fill the FS position in FA with a Veteran player.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shurmur threatens to sit Greg
Little if drops don't stop
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