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That is a very ugly stretch.
My biggest issue with Shurmur is an offense that seems left behind. That being said, it's very vanilla, with very green and inexperienced players...or without an offseason to prepare and little talent to work with.
It's hard to figure out if our offense is archaic, or is it just vanilla because of the hand he's been dealt.
Regardless, our offense has flashed some. We've scored 16, 27, 14, and 16...not a ringing endorsement of success, but, it's flashed. It's shown that it has sustainability, something that hasnt been shown in the past. We looked dangerous in late game drives against Cincy and Baltimore.
One concerning thing though is our performance in the 1st quarter. We've been outscored 103-32 since Shurmur was hired. That speaks to the gameplanning. It hasnt been very good. While we've had good game plans to keep games close and be in every game, our first quarters have been atrocious. In addition, blowing 5 fourth quarter leads is also a worry of large proportions.
Shurmur must increase his trust in his guys, and his guys must respond. That's all i got for those two things. Go for broke.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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We actually didn't run on every first down this last game.
I'm glad I wasn't the only person who thought this was a huge problem last year.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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It's hard to figure out if our offense is archaic, or is it just vanilla because of the hand he's been dealt.
I'd venture a guess that once our QB & WR's stop combining for so many drops/incompletes, that our offense will start to look at LOT less archaic.
You can't get into the fancy stuff if you still can't do the basics. Once you get to the point where you can consistently execute well enough to dictate things to the defense you're playing, then the entire playbook opens up for you.
Just my $0.02.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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For me that's not the case. I do believe with the investment made in TRich you have to give him more touches until and unless you are way behind in the game. So to that end, I didn't care for the overall playcalling last week. But I have also seen some positive signs.
We would all like to see more touches for Trent, although he did have 18 plays from scrimmage and was targeted a few more times and IIRC he had a nice run negated by a holding penalty too. Perhaps they where not as many as we would like to see, but his touches where not irresponsible from a Coaching and playcalling standpoint.
Just in case you missed my last rebuttal on this subject. If they are keying against Richardson and our running game, then something is open in the passing game. The odds of running successfully under those conditions, do not favor your blockers or your RB. (it's a numbers thing). If and when we show a consistent passing threat, then the numbers to run against the defense will become more favorable for our blockers and Trent Richardson.
Smart Coach's take what the defense gives them.
If you have a lead and you want to try and run against unfavorable numbers, then I think that's acceptable, but I never like to play not to lose.
Dropped passes are effecting the running game too, because the running game will not open up without a consistent passing game.
Forgetaboutit!
40% reception to target ratio is not going to get it done.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 10/04/12 07:45 PM.
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We were down by a TD with a chance to tie in a game most thought we'd get blown out in.
I'd say to a point our "gameplan" was successful.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Just curious, what do you think the Browns record would be those 15 games if Billichek was HC? Jim Harbaugh? Parcels? Paul Brown?
This is in response to me saying they were 1-10 to finish last year and 0-4 to start this year.
... OK, this might take a while. First I'm going to say, Marty Schottenheimer is the coach I have the most confidence in in the regular season and divisional games. To finsih 1-10, I have to beleive, Marty, would have, last year had, with our same roster, a good 5-7 wins in the last 11 games.
One has to consider that the Philadelphia game to start this year, was set up by the defense for the offense to win it with a 6 point lead and possession of the ball with about 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter. I have to figure Marty would have with our roster, gotten a win there and vs the Bengals, ( simply because Marty was more clutch to get a division title than anyone that comes to mind) ( He even won the division with the Chiefs when Elway and Terrelle Davis were getting their SB.)
If you factor in the number of backup quarterbacks the Browns had a chance to face last year, I think you have to bump any Browns coach's win total up.
now to answer your question.
How many if Bellichick were the HC.
With the Browns current rosters last year, and this year, I think that Bellichick would have about 11 wins, but I'm counting 4-0 this year.
This may be conservative, as I think maybe he gets 9 last year, so 13-2.
With the Browns rosters, Paul Brown, ... well it's hard to translate a coach I never watched from a different era into today's game, but Paul Brown is a hall of fame coach, I believe, so ,and having looked into a little of Browns history, I have to say he was dominant, so I'd have to believe he would dominate, so I'm going to have to think Paul Brown would have had 7 or 8 to finish last year, and be 3-1 to start this year, ( in my mind the loss is Baltimore.)
so I'll say 10-5
Jim Harbaugh, I really don't know alot about Jim Harbaugh,
He, I think, is the coach of the San Francisco team, that team has alot of 1st round picks on it, ... I heard a story last year where he simplified the offense for Alex Smith, the passing offense, and made for better results, ( from Clayton, espn radio) but let's get serious.
With the Browns roster and reputation, Jim Harbaugh last year the last 11 games, I think would probably only get about 5 wins, maybe only 4, or 3, or 2, but this year, with this roster, I think he would get at least a 2-2 record to start the season.
Why? The reason being that a new season brings a new start, new expectations and they aren't going to start out not being in the mix of things.
Bill Parcells.
I'll give you the hay day of Bill Parcells, not the today, or even his last couple years.
With the Browns players and roster last year, Parcells, I don't think would have gotten alot out of Colt McCoy, because their styles are in conflict, but I beleive he would have gotten alot, ALOT more out of our runningbacks, and the defense, but the Browns in 2011 in this division, ( and division games were never Parcells best asset... and I'm not saying he was bad in his own division just, what I'm saying is he'd struggle vs the AFC North with the 2011 Browns as much as any of the coaches, because of the Browns reputation. 
So last year, Parcells , the final 11 games, ... not remembering the opponents off hand, I'm going to say Parcells would have probably only gotten about 4 wins, but I think he would have at least 2 this year,
So Parcells , 6
Now!
I wanted to say, the question in my mind is where would the team be right now,if they had re-upped Crennell for another , well this would be a 4th year by now.
I think, not only would they still have Eric Wright, and a couple others, there are some on the roster now they wouldn't have, because Crennell had a style of player, as well as a style of unit, ( offense, defense, special teams unit, )
I think Crennell would have probably 5-6 wins to finish last year, ( maybe take away 1 due to McCoy ), and I think if starting a 6-7th season with the same team,
This year, with this roster, or the hypothetical roster Crennel would have had with the Browns, I think he's better than 2-2 I think he'd be 3-1 finally, through the first 4 this year.
so Crennel, I[d say 7. 4 last year, for the final 11 games, and 3 to start this season.
The Browns are in last place in the division race now, and have been since when I can't remember so, what does this matter anyway.
Yes! it is All about coaching, it is almost ALLL about coaching, and it almost always is.
Marty used to say, you have 3 phases, offense, defense, and special teams, and if you win 2 of those you usually win the game. Of course he would always say that after he beat a team he wasn't supposed to.
Remember when the Browns would beat a team they weren't supposed to?
Remember when, if they did, it actually meant something? Meaning, if they did it would actually put the Browns back in the hunt, for the playoffs/ wildcard/ division/ second round of the playoffs/ the Super Bowl?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Smart Coach's take what the defense gives them.
First you would have to give some indications or evidence we have such a coach and I really don't believe you can do that based on the evidence at hand.
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If you have a lead and you want to try and run against unfavorable numbers, then I think that's acceptable, but I never like to play not to lose.
You really need to take another look at the game film. Thier D was not stacking 8 men in the box. The deck was not "stacked against us" to run the ball. Continuing to say that does not make it true.
You do not move up a spot and pay dearly for it to draft a RB at #3 overall and not give him the rock. A balanced attack is playing to win, to keep the oposing D on its heels, not "playing to lose". When you're within 6 points and throwing the ball at a 2-1 ratio, that's not balance.
I put forth the numbers on every other rookie QB and teams that used a balanced attack. But never mind all of that huh? Just keep "claiming" they had their D set up to stop the run, (which isn't true) and keep excusing the fact that TRich was underused when we were down by 6 points or less.
That won't change the reality of it. You use the run to set up the pass. Maybe that has something to do wuth the 40% you are speaking of?
Forgetaboutit!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We were down by a TD with a chance to tie in a game most thought we'd get blown out in.
I'd say to a point our "gameplan" was successful.
According to that logic, it's been successful for 4 weeks in a row. So how's that workin' for ya? In case you missed it, there's a lot more to the NFL than covering the spread....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We were down by a TD with a chance to tie in a game most thought we'd get blown out in.
I'd say to a point our "gameplan" was successful.
According to that logic, it's been successful for 4 weeks in a row. So how's that workin' for ya? In case you missed it, there's a lot more to the NFL than covering the spread....
Yeah, it's called being a young, inexperienced team, and yet still being competitive...
We were 2-2 at this point last year, and yet I feel a whole hell of a lot better about what we've got going now than we did after 4 weeks last season...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If you think having Weeden pass twice as much as we run when we are within six points as a sound game plan, then you disagree with almost every HC in the NFL unless they have Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Drew Brees.
You can talk a good talk, but your logic doesn't measure up to the reality of having a rookie QB in his fourth start. Logic dictates you don't put the entire burden of the game on the shoulders of a QB in his fourth NFL start. Not with a Trent Richardson on your team. That's just absurd.
Excuses are just that, excuses. Can you tell me why we invested so highly in Trent Richardson, WEREN'T facing 8 men in the box and passed twice as much as we rushed when we were down by 6 points or less?
No you can't accept to say it somehow "made you feel good".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I mean it' cool if you want to sit there and spout of ratios and whatnot.
But rushing more doesn't guarantee that we would of won the game.
Logic would dictate that there would of been less time on the clock had we run it more, therefore never even getting a shot to tie the game had it played out somewhat the same.
I would also argue that had we not had so many drops, Weeden wouldn't of been throwing it so many "extra" times. But that would just be an "excuse" right?
I would also like to point out this tidbit..
PHI - 19 rushes, 1 rececptions (20)
CIN - 19 rushes, 4 receptions (23)
BUF - 12 rushes, 6 receptions (18)
BAL - 14 rushes, 4 receptions (18)
It's almost like there, I don't know, trying to ease Trent into the game plan, no?
I mean it's not like he had any sort of surgery, 2 months ago, or anything...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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He had a minor scope. 4-6 weeks recovery time. You can look that up BTW  Week 4 Seattle Pass att. 30 Rush att. 35 Miami Pass att. 41 Rush att. 29 Washington Pass att. 35 Rush att. 31 Browns Pass att. 52 Rush att. 17 I know, I know...... All of the other HC's are wrong and Shurmer has it right.... By contrast? In week 3, even the Patriots rushed 34 times against the Ravens versus 41 pass attempts. But we all know how much their HC sucks. Easing Trent into it? Surely you jest!? Week 1- 19 att. Week 2- 19 att. Week 3- 12 att. Week 4- 14 att. The math says you have that part backwards.  In weeks 2 and 3 TRich had a rushing TD....... So yeah, we really need to start doing that less! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Why would I have to look up that Trent had surgery, when I just mentioned that he did..? I would point out that of Miami's 29, only 17 were their main guy Reggie Bush. Seattle, Miami, and Washington (Wheres Indy?) all had a closer R/P ratio, Seattle even ran more than they passed (because they barely average 150 yards passing a game.) Coincadently out of all 4 teams, only one of them won, and that was on a last second field goal. So it's almost as if our ratio had the same effect as theres! Week 2 Trent had both a Rushing and Rec TD, and he also had a Rushing TD this passed week, nice omission though Trent is on pace for 888 Yards and 12 TDs rushing, and 488 yards and 4 TDs recieving.. For over 1300 total yards and 16 TDs. Not bad.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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More excuses without substance. Yopu draft a RB at #3 because you plan on him to tote the rock. Not to carry well under 20 times a game. Reggie Bush? Do you know how much punishment his body has endured over the years? And BTW- TRich only carried 14 times. Our total rushes were 17. And Bush has six full seasons of wear and tear on him. Hey, if TRich would have gotten 20 touches and nine had been shared by other RB's, we wouldn't be having this discusssion. But no, our HC pretty much decided we were the Saints and had Drew Brees at QB.  On the surgery issue. You happen to be the one trying to use it as an "excuse" when the reality is, a full recovery from this surgery is 4 to 6 weeks. So that holds no validity. That's the part I was refering to. Since you were using that as some excuse, I thought you may wish to educate yourself as to why you point held zero merrit. But I guess not. Indy? Their rushes to passes ratio was still better than ours and they don't even have a real threat at RB. Since I've been doing all of your homework for you, you can look that stat up. And you know, when you don't really have a RB and still rush more than someone who drafted a RB #3 overall, that should tell you something. But it's you, so I'm pretty sure it won't. You know better than what you're even saying but I guess it gives you something to do.... 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You were talking about all the rookie QBs. That's why I asked about why you excluded Indy. But I guess whatever may make your figures look better.
And it's not just about his recovery time. The guy did t play at all in preseason. You just want him to go straight into 35 carries a game? Sounds like a good way to burn him out.
I like that we are competitive regardless of our "game plan"
You'd obviously rather we run it 35 times a game regardless of the score.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Well, run the ball 35 times a game or lose.
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Your full of .! And not worth my time to debate with. 
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there is no magic bean.
you cannot magically say how many rushes we should be doing. in the same game, we were stuffing Baltimore, so they also abandoned the run game for large portions.
yes, I would like to find some balance, but that balance also requires us to be able to run the ball efficiently. it's not like Shurmur and Childress have shown a propensity at their other spots to not run the ball. S-Jax and Peterson both toted the rock 330+ carries for these guys.
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Like I said you like to put words into someone’s mouth to make them look like liars. You think that it makes you look big, but I think that the opposite is more to the truth. I don’t care for that one iota. Those words (“8 in the box“), … but what I actually said was that their defense was keying on the run. Keying being the “KEY” word here. While they did have some snaps facing 8 in the box, my point was that the numbers are still in their favor if they are in the base and (7) are all keying on your RUN or if they are in the nickel going up against only 6 in the first two levels. We don’t see too many nickel defenses on base downs and we also see LBers playing the run (some team’s actually like to use them to help shut down the passing game too), but in what universe does a defense fear us and respect our passing game yet? Keying does not always equal “8 in the box“, but then you know it all so you should already know that  Do you always go to a debate so unprepared? (Half Cocked) Or do you also suffer from high altitude sickness from having your head so far up in the clouds? </berating>
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Do you always go to a debate so unprepared? (Half Cocked) Or do you also suffer from high altitude sickness from having your head so far up in the clouds? </berating>
No, I just happen to be smart enough to know if you plan to use play action and it work, you need to rush the ball more than 17 times a game unless you are way behind in the score.
We did not do that. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out and all your finger pointing and attempted degrading comments doesn't change that.
There is a difference in TRich running the ball 30 times a game and our team running at least 25 times a game. To get play action to work, there has to be some balance to your attack. We didn't have any.
It's a shame that when someone has no legitimate reasoning as to why someone doesn't need to run somewhat of a balanced attack when trying to use play action, they would resort to this.
I hope you can learn to rise above this, but I do have my doubts.
Please learn to stay on subject. It really helps!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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there is no magic bean.
you cannot magically say how many rushes we should be doing. in the same game, we were stuffing Baltimore, so they also abandoned the run game for large portions.
If you look back, you will see this topic started predicated on using play action. Play action only works if your oponent fears you may actually run the ball.
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yes, I would like to find some balance, but that balance also requires us to be able to run the ball efficiently. it's not like Shurmur and Childress have shown a propensity at their other spots to not run the ball. S-Jax and Peterson both toted the rock 330+ carries for these guys.
My point to all of this is quite simple. If you aren't going to run a balanced O in your game plan, you don't bother with play action. If you look at the ratio we were running the ball even when we were within six points, it's easy to see we weren't running the ball.
DC's in this league aren't naive. It wasn't hard and won't be hard for most every DC in the league to figure this out in the future either.
So if you aren't going to run a balanced attack and are going to play a pass happy O, I have no problem with that. But do what smart and winning coaches do in those situations. Use the shotgun more to give your QB the advantage in the passing game.
We see Manning, Brees, Brady and other QB's do this when they decide to go to a mainly passing offense. It gives your QB more of an oppertunity to see those quick routes develop and to deliver them rather than being half turned faking the handoff and paying part of his attention to footwork.
If as has been stated above is true, and it is....... When you have people keying on the run, both you and your oponent pretty much know you are going to pass. Actually Florida proved my very point in some lame attempt to put me down.
We weren't going to run with the oposing D keying on the run. I guess he forgot all about what this debate centered around. play action passes
So you do one of two things. You either run more as I have suggested to "sell the play action", or you don't bother with the play action. One or the other.
The combination of not rushing the football and trying to use play action makes zero sense. And nothing anyone can say or in any way try to dismiss that will change that fact.
And in such a case, TRich should get more targets in the passing game. In yet another feeble attemp to try to dismiss it, they say "He was injurred in pre-season" so we shouldn't rush him back........
Yet I plainly have shown his attempts have went down from game one, not up. Which would be the exact opposite of what was attempted to be implied.
But sometimes people get desperate.
So it's not that I have a problem with a passing attack, but any way you slice it, when you draft a RB #3 overall, you give him 25 or more touches. Wheather it's through the air as TRich has shown a good ability at, or by rushing the ball.
But you don't rush him 14 times and a total of 17 rushed by your O and try to sell play action at the same time. That's not sound playcalling no matter what a few homers try to say.
And if you have noticed? It's only a couple of them trying to sell that swamp land in Florida.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c
Pat Shurmur is the worst coach I've ever seen.
His offense, ("my offense" as Mike Holmgren put it the day he fired Mangini), his game management, his awful leadership skills, his playcalling, EVERYTHING is the worst coaching job I have ever seen.
I can't wait til Junior is gone and Haslam fires these idiots.
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We also have Hardesty, and Ogonbayya. Trent doesnt have to carry the whole load here.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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I wouldn't go quite that far Ammo. I mean I haven't seen the poor clock management and pure rookie moves he made last year. But he does things that make no sense sometimes.
Like the couple of people who stuck up for his use of play action last week.
This week we rushed 19 times and averaged 4.4 yards per rush. Now if your rushing average is that high, why wouldn't you rush more?
But bottom line, this week we used very little play action even when we were averaging 4.4 yards per rush.
Last week we rushed 17 times and only averaged 2.5 yard average per rush and used play action like crazy.
Now why would you not use play action when you are doing well in the run game but use it quite often when you are doing poorly in the run game?
Something there just doesn't add up.......
You have trouble running the ball and you stop running the ball, use play action.
You are having some success at running the ball and actually seem to be posing a threat with your running game, so don't use play action?
2+2=6?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We used play action on that 62yd TD pass to Gordon...less is more sometimes
Also, PA means less time for your rookie statue QB to aim and throw, esp. with an inconsistent OL blocking, so I guess that's an adjustment they've made to improve the overall performance...and it did
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We used play action on that 62yd TD pass to Gordon...less is more sometimes
I agree that less is more sometimes. But from a ton to almost none may be a bit much.
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Also, PA means less time for your rookie statue QB to aim and throw, esp. with an inconsistent OL blocking, so I guess that's an adjustment they've made to improve the overall performance...and it did
Actually our pass protection was pretty good yesterday. I didn't see much inconsistancy in it at all. Zero sacks and for the most part plenty of time in the pocket.
I just believe that on such occasions as your RB has a really good play of five yards or more and you're going to pass, PA is an asset.
It's not something I feel should be overused at any time. However, there are "perfect oppertunities" to use it that you simply shouldn't neglect IMO
Once again, I feel knowing when to use it and having some balance with it is the key. I wasn't trying to advocate we use it nearly as much as last week, but we were actaully able to run the ball Sunday. And I do believe that PA should have been used more than it was.
Like I said, when you are averaging 4.4 yds per carry, play action can be effective. I think there were times it would have helped open up some intermediate targets.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree Ammo.
Shurmur is not "intuitive." I've often thought coaching was a mix of science and art--you have to use stats and probability sometimes, but sometimes it is intuition, timing and rhythm--like playing an instrument.
Like a good jazz musician, you have to know when and where to use the right chords (play action, 3-step drop, etc.). I don't think PS innately has that.
Go Browns!
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Pat is reportedly calling and emailing members of the media off the record who are critical of his coaching ability and decision making. Ridiculous and borderline unacceptable behavior if true.
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Pat is reportedly calling and emailing members of the media off the record who are critical of his coaching ability and decision making. Ridiculous and borderline unacceptable behavior if true.
Wouldnt surprise me. He looked like he was about to snap in his post game interview.
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It's not something I feel should be overused at any time. However, there are "perfect oppertunities" to use it
Like 3rd and 1 on their 25?  I have zero problem with throwing the ball in that situation, what I have a big problem with is emptying the backfield and having 3 guys run 2 yard routes and rolling out my immobile QB who hasn't been under pressure anyway.
You line up in a normal 1-back, 3 WR set... then run the PA and you can hit a big play there or hit a dump off for the first down. I guess that one just sticks with me and I would need somebody to explain what, if anything, we were thinking there.
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That was probably the most stupid play call in terms of timing and putting your talent to use I have ever witnessed...and that includes 32 games called by Mangini
Shurmur is rather conservative in approach, so tanking there I expect him to be ULTRA conservative next game vs the Bengals...and who knows, maybe Chilly lobbied hard for this play...we don't know
Of course he's right to be mad at Weeden as any QB should know and handle the situation but the chain of fail starts with him...and ends there again at the end of the day...he has to know and MANAGE his players.....everyone knows Weeden's game..he's a confident, immobile pocket gunslinger....so taking him out of the pocket on purpose and then expect him to NOT be him is optimistic at best...I mean, how many times in the previous 4 games have we seen him throw a ball away? He's not that kind of guy....he has some Roethli/Favre to him....good AND bad, and you have to manage it accordingly...and that's Shurmur's job too, not only calling smart plays he thinks the opposition don't expect
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Shurmur lost me on that one. I want him gone.
Joe Thomas #73
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j/c
Pat Shurmur is the worst coach I've ever seen.
His offense, ("my offense" as Mike Holmgren put it the day he fired Mangini), his game management, his awful leadership skills, his playcalling, EVERYTHING is the worst coaching job I have ever seen.
I can't wait til Junior is gone and Haslam fires these idiots.
i concur on Shurmur. The more i see him, the less i like him.
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i concur on Shurmur. The more i see him, the less i like him.
Every time he speaks my blood pressure rises. I can't even stand the sight of the guy because I think he's that bad of a coach. His use of the personnel he has is terrible because he's hell bent on running the 1990's "my offense" instead of adapting to the strengths of your personnel.
3rd and 1 is a microcosm of Shurmur's entire stay here: I can understand passing on 3rd and 1, but here's what drives me the most crazy
1) Trent's out of the game (that's obvious)
2) Ogbonnaya was lined up to the side, not behind Weeden SIGNALING AN OBVIOUS PASS PLAY. At the very least if he's lined up behind Weeden there is a threat of a run.
There are times where poor execution ruins a good play call and there are times when good execution saves a poor play call. This is an example where poor execution and a poor play call compounded themselves.
If I'm Haslam, the first thing I do is fire the Browns PR department. The second thing I do is fire Holmgren. Third is fire Shurmur.
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I used to get comic relief out of Shurmur's lack of coaching ability ... but now it really angers me as well. I sense him becoming more and more of a jerk to the media and extremely arrogant (probably a defense mechanism because he realizes his job is gone). But this increasing negative attitude just makes me hate him.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Shurmur is in over his head. I get that he came into a bad situation, but at the end of the day, the team has lost 11 in a row and 14 of 15. With new ownership he is as good as gone.
I think even more damning than some of the baffling decisions he has made and the team generally not being ready to play is that I really can't think of any positives of him as a head coach. Even a lot of head coaches that fail in this league were at least successful coordinators at one point.
I would hire the guy as a QB coach and that's about it.
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We used play action on that 62yd TD pass to Gordon...less is more sometimes
Also, PA means less time for your rookie statue QB to aim and throw, esp. with an inconsistent OL blocking, so I guess that's an adjustment they've made to improve the overall performance...and it did
The only reason that PA worked was because TR had just run over them the previous scoring drive. I agree with the majority on here with the idea of making Richardson the center of the offense (not Weeden) by giving him more carries. The #3 pick of the draft should be getting the ball more anyway. The best way for Weeden to succeed will be to establish the run with TR first.
I truly hate how Shurmur abandons the run so early in the game, especially with TR on your roster. He truly doesn't know how to use what he's got and tailor an offense to his personnel. So far we've seen Shanahan, John Fox, and Jim Harbaugh willingly mold an offense around their players' abilities. Why can't Shurmur?
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its something i worry about too.... idk why he doesnt....cept for Benjamin in space
well he played OC and was a qb coach...
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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The only reason that PA worked was because TR had just run over them the previous scoring drive. I agree with the majority on here with the idea of making Richardson the center of the offense (not Weeden) by giving him more carries. The #3 pick of the draft should be getting the ball more anyway. The best way for Weeden to succeed will be to establish the run with TR first.
I truly hate how Shurmur abandons the run so early in the game, especially with TR on your roster. He truly doesn't know how to use what he's got and tailor an offense to his personnel. So far we've seen Shanahan, John Fox, and Jim Harbaugh willingly mold an offense around their players' abilities. Why can't Shurmur?
As I said, I run hot and cold on Shurmur... but let's be realistic for a moment... Fox and Harbaugh both inherited defenses that turned out to be stellar in their first year.. they had the flexibility to do things with their offense that we can't do. Our defense is giving up 425 yards and almost 28 points per game. It's hard for us to sustain this ground and pound, focus on the back offense if we need to score 30 points to win. We are not that dominant of a running team yet.
I agree that Shurmur seems to abandon the run too early... but if we had San Fran's defense, that would allow us to be a lot more conservative with our offense and opens up a world of possibilities.... but we don't.
yebat' Putin
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Thats true...
just a thought. Long drives can wear out an offense too, and if we're forced to sustain lots of drives while the D lets a team march down the field, we're gonna have to use the pass. Its less stress on the OL, its less time consuming, and allows you to "keep up" with the opposing offense.
If you feel like you gotta score 30 to win, you gotta throw, or break off big runs. We'll get there. Just takes time.
I do think that we're passing a lot as a result of our past offense. We're still spending a lot of time shaking off defenses. Through the first 5 weeks what would teams say about our offense? They cant throw, their WRs suck and their RB is their best player. Wouldnt you struggle to run the ball too if that was how the defenses played you?
We have some belief in our pass game right now, and we're the only ones. So we have to rely on it because the run game is being overcommitted to. If we start beating teams in the air, itll open the run way more, so in this regard i get it with Shurmur...but, its a tough sell.
Now is when we'll see if teams start to respect the pass...We threw for 300 against Cincy last time. If we run the ball more this week...we'll see a Shurmur plan in action.
We did say at the beginning of the season if we dont throw the ball, teams will stack up on the run. And while teams havent started with 8 in the box...they collapse on the run quickly all the time...Theres several there in a big hurry when we do run
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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