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What do we need right now (EOS) to complete the team?
WR - We need our version of Julio Jones, A.J. Green, Calvin Johnson or Weeden is boned, our running game remains ineffective and our offense goes nowhere.
FS - When Usama went down, Ventrone stepped in, the Hagg experiment appears to be over. Bottom line, we need a dominant Free Safety to round out the secondary. With Haden on one side, Patterson on the other and Skrine in the slot, we have a solid group of corners. The young LBs are looking good! The D-line is looking like top 10. The missing piece on D is FS. Does Sheldon Brown move to FS and is that the answer?
OG - Right now the guards have no push, no speed and little athleticism so they get blown into the backfield and can't get outside or pull or do anything to help the running game, and are too often ineffective in the passing game. Besides WR, this is our greatest need on offense.
FB - Marecic is useless. We need a FB who can block and catch and it boggles my mind that the coaching staff and FO can't see that.
Coach - We need a HC who knows how to scheme, game plan & win.
Are these the only pieces we need to make us a complete, competitive team?
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Here's what we need to be more complete in my opinion, starting with offense:
WR - We absolutely need a play making WR, but I think drafting another rookie wouldn't solve any problems immediately. We would find ourselves then waiting for any of Little/Gordon/Benjamin or Rookie X to improve and step up to be that #1 guy, but Weeden needs a target that will make plays on a consistent basis.
TE - Cameron is a project, just like Gordon. Outside Ben Watson, our TE depth is terrible and we should be utilizing 2 TE sets on a regular basis IMO. You need two starting caliber TE's to pull that off and we've got one. Watson's not getting any younger, which means potentially we may need two TE's going into next year.
OG - IMO, Pinkston and Lauvao are not starting calibre, but they're what we have. As the season plays on we will see how they improve but we need to improve on at least one, if not both guys. They would both be quality back ups but they're not consistent enough (yet) to start. They're only starting here because they're who we have.
FB - Agreed, Marecic has been underwhelming but his play has been less scrutinized this year which means he's either improving, or we have other things to whine about. If Marecic struggles, maybe Smelley will get a shot next training camp to prove himself. We kept him on the PS didn't we?
FS - This team has one starting caliber safety, and that's TJ Ward. Losing Mike Adams was a blow to this team, IMO. Hagg/Young are not any kind of answer, neither is Ventrone.
DE - A defensive end to bring some fear and intimidation would be nice, Sheard COULD be that guy, but I don't think that he's that nasty. Frostee is a band-aid, but he's brought a physical presence that has improved the front 7. We need a longer-term solution and a DE sack machine would be just what the doctor ordered.
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Those are the pieces we need to be the best team in the league. Even recent superbowl winners had significant holes at some positions.
We are currently a young competing team hampered by some injuries, a suspension, and growing pains.
Edit: The most important piece is seeing how Weeden pans out. Superbowl winners have elite QBs.
Last edited by Kingcob; 09/30/12 01:11 PM.
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We've spent eight - EIGHT! - second round picks on wide receivers since our return, four in the last four drafts. And it's our most glaring weakness. 
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Time.
And that other stuff you mentioned.
Thank you for not putting QB on the list.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Conner back ( Big , see Seattle ) please ..
WR , we all know that
Ol ,starting with the Guard spot
DE
FS
FB is a need ( maybe Smelly ) but not an issue I am losing sleep over ..
I am not a Shurmur fan !
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Gordon will be our #1
Guards need help maybe what we got can get better but we need an upgrade.
This seems to be a huge problem in run blocking
FB I hate that we got rid of Vickers.
Joe Thomas #73
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Quote:
Time.
And that other stuff you mentioned.
Thank you for not putting QB on the list.
Time is definitely the one thing that we absolutely know that we need.
Right now, my major questions are these:
Will we have a WR or 2 step up and become the reliable, explosive threats we need?
Will our Guards remember how to run block? If not, will one of our backups get a shot at starting? What about Schwartz? How will he be playing in the middle to late season?
How will the corners look when Haden gets back? Patterson has been somewhat effective, and when Haden returns I would expect that he starts with Haden. If Skrine and Wade show that they can handle Nickel and Dime situations, can we then move Brown to Safety? I would think that he would be an upgrade there, and that he would make that move if he can continue as the starter there.
Will the DL continue its excellent play? How do they adjust when Taylor returns?
How do our young LBs do? It appears that Robertson is starting to take significant time away from both Maiava and Fujita. When JMJ returns, does he take a similar path? What about Fort?
How will Cameron develop at TE? Who do we have on the roster at that position by year's end? I see it as highly unlikely that both Smith and Watson make it through the year unscathed. If one winds up on the IR, do we bring Gronk up? If so, can he and Cameron turn into solid options at the position?
In fairness, we need to see how Weeden develops over the rest of the season as well. There is no reason to exempt him from evaluation. (and I know that you weren't implying that, though some might have taken it that way)
That's a lot of questions, but there are really young players at most of these positions, and that breeds questions. If some of these questions are still unanswered in the off-season, do we look at veterans, or do we continue with the youth movement? Will we combine approaches?
Only the Shadow knows .........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
Those are the pieces we need to be the best team in the league. Even recent superbowl winners had significant holes at some positions.
We are currently a young competing team hampered by some injuries, a suspension, and growing pains.
I agree.
I never expect to fullfill every single hole because it will never happen. Just fix the 3 biggest weaknesses and add depth with talent to strengthen others.
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Any list that doesn't include a starting caliber CB opposite Haden is incomplete at best.
The lack of a true FS is compounding the need for another starting CB.
OG although while not a major need imo, it can certainly be upgraded.
Last but not least would be a true go to WR. Until we get one or one of our current players emerges ... teams will continue to key on Richardson and we will continue to be a lopsided looking offense.
Why would defenses defend us any other way?
It's perfectly illustrated in Thursday nights game.
Trent Richardson:
14 carries for 47 yards.
4 receptions for 57 yards (mostly YAC).
One doesn't have to be a mathematician to know which was the more effective play for us.
To the credit of our Coach's, they knew this too.
I don't get stuck on the number of passing attempts, because I know that in this offense, the short pass is a long hand off for all intensive prepossess.
Edit:
With Alex Smith being sidelined ... I think that Smelley could have help the cause if he was available on the 53 man roster.
I'm hopeful that he can show some progress in the blocking department, because he has some of the softest hands on the team.
Also Richarson is more familiar with his back side hehe ... and what he can expect him to do.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 09/30/12 02:32 PM.
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what do we need now to complete the team?
1, Coaching,
2, excellence,
3, understanding one's role and anticipation of what's about to come up,
4, eccellent, mistake free football, like the big red machine would go a whole season and commit only a handful of errors.
5, a couple of breaks to go our way.
6 To raise the level of expectations of the performance though quick repitions
7 Respect
8 Preparedness,
9, BASIC innovations that other teams have already mastered, like the no huddle offense, or unpredictable plays.
10, To gameplan to win by alot, not just by a little.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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All Pro
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Well other than the obvious WR position and O-line we all have been pointing a big ugly finger at for several years. I think we need to fill a huge hole at LB. DQ should be the least talented guy at the position for a measuring stick. This would make us soo much better in 3rd down D. I get so tired of the Browns giving up first down yardage on 3rd and forever. Usually because a safety or DB gets caught peeking into the backfield, while playing 10 yards off a guy, not jamming, and getting burnt for screens and slants, because we have no run support. We need a stud or two at any of the LB positions. 1 hulk and 1 John Lynch type player that can hit AND cover. I would love to say "We have a Hulk."  FB. I have always been on record as saying letting Vickers go was a HUGE MISTAKE. If not for Steiney getting hurt and Hillis going Sybil. We would have had our running game. I think we need to take a closer look at our TE situation. Old and broken. Young and raw. Should have kept Moore IMO. Added depth at DL. But I like where the D line is heading. And last but not least better depth and talent at DB. IMO Sheldon needs to go.
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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1. OG's. A huge glaring need right now. It was funny in the off season how some on here were saying the Browns could have a Top 5 NFL o-line in 2012.
More like bottom 10.
the Browns need to sign a legit stud in FA and draft a OG high.
2. Saftey. The Eric Hagg experiment is over with. He can't play in the nickel or start.
T.J Ward in a strictly in the box run stopper. why genius Heckert traded Sims is a head scratcher.
3. WR. How long will it take this organization to realize you can't go far with mediorce WRs. If your WRs have more drops than TDs,thats a problem.
4. CB. Outside of Haden the talent level is porous. Skrine simply cannot play at a physical level. Patterson is better suited for the nickel. Brown is ready to retire.
they need a physical #2 CB who can play the run and match up with big WRs
5. TE. There isn't one TE on the Browns offense that screams playmaker.
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Quote:
We've spent eight - EIGHT! - second round picks on wide receivers since our return, four in the last four drafts.
And it's our most glaring weakness.
thats why we need to spend the money for a Free Agent WR who can step right in an play....Welker would be nice but we really need one who can strech the field for Richardson, maybe sign two..
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Mercedes Lewis just caught a TD pass for Jacksonville. The announcer described it as a "circus catch". When was the last time a Browns' Wr made a circus catch for a TD? When was the last time a Browns' Wr made a circus catch for a catch?
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Quote:
Quote:
We've spent eight - EIGHT! - second round picks on wide receivers since our return, four in the last four drafts.
And it's our most glaring weakness.
thats why we need to spend the money for a Free Agent WR who can step right in an play....Welker would be nice but we really need one who can strech the field for Richardson, maybe sign two..
Pipe dream at best. Every FA next year is going to look at the browns with a new HC new FO and New Owner and say call me in 3 years. It already happened this year. It will happen next year.
Good FA want to go to good teams. The rest will sign with teams like the Browns.
In which case Ill take our young guys and new draft picks.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I would consider throwing ALOT of money at Victor Cruz, just to get a sure handed guy here.
Doubt he'd wanna leave NYG though.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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FS- Haag and Young are decent backups, not starters.
CB- A big corner is needed for particular match-ups. Look how Boldin did last week. It wasn't like Skrine and Patterson got burnt, Boldin is just too big and too strong for them.
Depth Everywhere- The drop-off from starter to back-up is too big right now.
Time-
A Crowd- We went from one of the best fan bases to nearly the worst. I know this won't change till we start winning but it sure would help if opposing offenses had to deal with more crowd noise than a typical highschool D III game.
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Quote:
Depth Everywhere- The drop-off from starter to back-up is too big right now.
Few teams have depth EVERYWHERE..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Depth Everywhere- The drop-off from starter to back-up is too big right now.
Few teams have depth EVERYWHERE..
Yeah but I can't imagine Ventrone making the team ANYWHERE else.
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Ventrone is our 4th Safety. That's not even considered a depth position anymore IMO
I think a lot of people took Mike Adams for granted. I wanted him to retired a Brown. Loved that guy.
I'm hoping we can snag a Kenny Phillips or Kerry Rhodes type in FA if theres no Eric Berry in this draft...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'd like to get Kenny Phillips and sign a veteran guard
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Depth Everywhere- The drop-off from starter to back-up is too big right now.
Few teams have depth EVERYWHERE..
Yeah but I can't imagine Ventrone making the team ANYWHERE else.
Given the fact that he is a S, (a position of need at the backup positions throughout the league) as well as a special teams demon, I can see it.
He's not a starter, but he can be useful in a limited role on defense .... and is an exceptional special teams player.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
1. OG's. A huge glaring need right now. It was funny in the off season how some on here were saying the Browns could have a Top 5 NFL o-line in 2012.
More like bottom 10.
the Browns need to sign a legit stud in FA and draft a OG high.
2. Saftey. The Eric Hagg experiment is over with. He can't play in the nickel or start.
T.J Ward in a strictly in the box run stopper. why genius Heckert traded Sims is a head scratcher.
3. WR. How long will it take this organization to realize you can't go far with mediorce WRs. If your WRs have more drops than TDs,thats a problem.
4. CB. Outside of Haden the talent level is porous. Skrine simply cannot play at a physical level. Patterson is better suited for the nickel. Brown is ready to retire.
they need a physical #2 CB who can play the run and match up with big WRs
5. TE. There isn't one TE on the Browns offense that screams playmaker.
Not that you care...but here are the facts:
1. Browns have allowed 9 sacks in 4 games and they're AVG with that number...considering that the Browns threw the 3rd most passes and have a rookie statue QB in the pocket I'd say they are a pretty good pass blocking OL overall compared to the rest of the league...and that's with a WCO misfit at Center, more on that later. As to run blocking: Browns have a 4.1 AVG/run and are 12th in the league with that...but yeah, our OL and Gs are the biggest problem 
2. David Sims has done nothing in Philly, 2 Ts, 1 Assists, he's a backup STeamer....another case of your ongoing theme called "the grass is always greener", I'm starting to think that you just have no clue about the rest of the league
3. I agree here but at least recognize the upside...but yeah, I hate drafting boom or bust WRs in round 2, bad value imho
4. Somewhat agree on CBs, I'd try to add another no2 quality CB just because you need 4 good/decent ones and I consider Patterson and Skrine good and decent..you haven't seen REAL bad CB play yet....watch some Steelers games, vs the Raiders "great" pass attack maybe....and they drafted their guys higher than Skrine
5. While more depth is needed as A.Smith is who he is, a backup no3 TE, and Watson won't be re-signed I think Cameron can hold down the spot for the time being and still has upside left...maybe add a one dimensional pass catching or run blocking TE late..that's be enough mid term and give Cameron another season to improve...maybe higher if Cameron doesn't improve THIS season but I think he will...he already did actually
As to what I think:
1. We need a FS...like real bad..but then again, over half the league needs a ballhawking FS in this Arena League football day and age...Berry would have been nice but we never got a chance to draft him. I'd like to hear from anyone who whines about the FS position and FO who he would have brought in/drafted...
2. I'll get trashed from some homers for this, but we need a real WCO C...Mack just isn't, he's a grunt and was drafted for such a scheme, so it's not his or anybody's fault, it is what it is, but he just doesn't have it upstairs to orchestrate an OL. People who don't watch tape and just go on reputation think we're fine at C but reality is he's a bigger problem for the Gs than the Gs are for him....he blocks AIR or is late helping out WAY to often and much, which tells me he STILL has no clue what he's doing out there in pass pro...remember when Hank Fraley made the OL calls because Mack couldn't recognize a damn? He hasn't improved much there...with a rookie QB and 2 younger Gs we simply need more celebral play from a 1st round C, but just don't get it...so the best fix imho would be to move Mack to G, where he has less thinking to do and just be a grunt, he'd be a PBowler asap there. You can get decent WCO C's on day 3 of ANY draft, just look for a celebral, lightweight C that has still some body to grow some muscles to....we'd fix 2 little problems with 1 move
3. Draft a pass rushing monster DE...Parker is a decent stop gap but only got a 1year contract for a reason, he'll be gone...Stephens is a decent no4 DE, who you can rotate in some but we need a monster pass rushing DE threat on obvious passing downs to spell Rucker...our LBs, and DBs would look so much better....Heckert's done a TREMENDOUS job to completely re-build from the inside out on defense....he had Rubin and that's it, nothing at all to switch from the slow footed Mangini 3-4 to a speedy 4-3 lineup...he hasn't missed on a pick for the DL be it early round or late....he has a great eye for DL talent as you can see with the Philly DL and now here. He doesn't get nearly enough credit for this incredible overhaul and how difficult it is to draft DL talent...of course props have to also go out to the coaches on that side of the field for developing the given talent...only 1 piece is missing and we have this DL settled and play together for the next 2-4 years...Sheard, Rubin, Taylor, Winn, Hughes and Rucker will be playing together for at least another 2-3 seasons and they're already looking pretty good...very bright spot that can go from good to great with Taylor's return and another speed Top 75 pick for DE...with Rucker in, we don't even need a complete 3 down DE, just a very speedy edge rusher...I'm confident that Heckert can find that in the mid rounds....let's hope he gets to stay and see this through
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Offense
WR we still need two quality wide receivers.
FB Somebody, anybody would be an improvement.
RB Better depth
OL More depth all along the O-line. Not starters but depth. Our guards are just fine, I still see way to much undeserved bashing going on from a lot of you guys.
Defense
DB's one more starting CB, one starting FS, and better depth aall around.
LB one starting OLB who can really get after the QB and some time for the young guys to get some experience.
Yep we are 0-4 and it's going to be a frustrating year but for once we are on the right track and the future is looking brighter.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Well ..... I do think that our Guards will be OK, but to use that 4.1 yards/carry stat is rather deceiving. I do think that our OL is fully in sync, and I think that having a rookie at RT, and an obviously slowed Joe Thomas (knee) at LT have hurt their development.
Richardson is about the only guy getting regular rushing attempts, and he is averaging 3.5 yards/rush.
Ogbonnaya has 4 yards on 2 carries.
The rest are scrambles by Weeden, (averaging over 7 yards/scramble) and Benjamin. (12.5 yards per carry on 4 carries)
As far as I can recall, those are the only people to run the ball.
Ironically enough, we usually line up Little across from Benjamin when he runs those reverses, and Little usually does a nice job blocking for him.
My biggest concern with Little is that I almost get the feeling that he sees himself as a star right now ...... and he's not. He does those ridiculous antics when he picks up a 1st down when we're down by 10, and it makes me want to reach through the screen and smack him in the head.
I do believe that receivers can improve their ability to catch if they are willing to put in the work necessary to do so. I an not one of those "either they have it or they don't" types. I do think that Little needs more experience tracking deeper passes, but how does he get that experience if he doesn't play the deeper routes? It's like a double edged sword with him, because he obviously has talent, size, and speed ...... but he also definitely needs work and experience. It's a tough call to make.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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Quote:
Any list that doesn't include a starting caliber CB opposite Haden is incomplete at best.
I'm good with Patterson in that role right now. I think help in the other areas before we spend a high draft pick on a CB. JMHO
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
I think we need to fill a huge hole at LB.
DQ should be the least talented guy at the position for a measuring stick.
I'm willing to see how Fort, Robertson & JMJ pan out first before I start looking for a high round pick there.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
Our guards are just fine, I still see way to much undeserved bashing going on from a lot of you guys.
I would like to see better play from them, my question is are they capable. I'm seeing Pinkston getting blown off the ball, beaten with swim moves, and unable to get outside with any speed. I'm not sure he can get better, he may just be what he is.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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IMO what is missing from the browns is Matt Barkley. It's okay though #Suck4Barkley 0-16 will guarantee Barkley in Cleveland 
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9.8 vs Hawaii
6.2 vs Syracuse
6.2 vs Stanford
5.6 vs Cali
Those are Barkley's AVG/PA in 4 games this season..and in 6 of 12 games last season he had an AVG under 7 too...in College !
No thanks, he's a dink'n'dunker
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,792 Likes: 1345 |
Quote:
Gordon will be our #1
Based on what exactly?
What evidence (other than faith alone), do you have that shows this will happen? It's a nice dream and hope, but I've seen nothing to this point that indicates this will be the case.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,792 Likes: 1345 |
Quote:
IMO what is missing from the browns is Matt Barkley.
Thanks for the laugh!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
IMO what is missing from the browns is Matt Barkley.
It's okay though
#Suck4Barkley
0-16 will guarantee Barkley in Cleveland
I don't want to go 0-16, I don't really want Barkley.... The guy was falling behind Luck and RGIII last year for a reason before he decided to stay in school.
He strikes me as the kind of QB that, on a talented team in the right situation, he can be a decent QB, but he's not a game changer, he's not the sure fire thing you need when taking a QB #1 overall. not even close.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,713 Likes: 105
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
Gordon will be our #1
Based on what exactly?
What evidence (other than faith alone), do you have that shows this will happen? It's a nice dream and hope, but I've seen nothing to this point that indicates this will be the case.....
My opinion. Its the only one Ive got
Joe Thomas #73
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
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I agree Django.
He just throws bubble screens to his beast WRs
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
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Any list that doesn't include a starting caliber CB opposite Haden is incomplete at best.
I'm good with Patterson in that role right now. I think help in the other areas before we spend a high draft pick on a CB. JMHO
Well I could feel a whole lot better with him if he could learn to get his head around and could hang on to an INT.
Personally I'm hoping Wade can be part of the mix here real soon.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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He got his head around on Torrey Smith on one particular play that sticks out in my mind, deep ball, glued to his hip, great pass break up. I thought he played well against the Ravens and I like what I've seen from him lately.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124 Likes: 222 |
Quote:
He got his head around on Torrey Smith on one particular play that sticks out in my mind, deep ball, glued to his hip, great pass break up. I thought he played well against the Ravens and I like what I've seen from him lately.
Interesting comment because a friend and I were having that same discussion last night.
Flacco - as overrated as he is - made some great throws to Boldin who caught everything his hands touched. Patterson was right there...but the throw was too good and Boldin to consistent.
It's weird to say it, but I too think he played pretty well.
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