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I think this team may finally win a game when...wait for it....McCoy is inserted into the lineup
thanks KoB. i missed your crazy swings of emotion in the gameday threads.
i'm chalking this one up to pure emotion of the 0-5 start.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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I think this team may finally win a game when...wait for it....McCoy is inserted into the lineup
thanks KoB. i missed your crazy swings of emotion in the gameday threads.
i'm chalking this one up to pure emotion of the 0-5 start.
Well, it is nice to have a good laugh after 5 losses.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think this team may finally win a game when...wait for it....McCoy is inserted into the lineup
thanks KoB. i missed your crazy swings of emotion in the gameday threads.
i'm chalking this one up to pure emotion of the 0-5 start.
its not a "crazy swing of emotions" i think you misunderstand what i mean....let me be more clear.
"right now" Weeden looks like Jeff George...BUT i think a big part of that is simply "Weeden is not ready" yet......just putting Weeden out there just because he is the 1st rd pick, just because you like his arm may not necessarily be the right move.
Weeden needed "more time" to develop....this organization should have started the season with McCoy...if McCoy played well, great...it gives Weeden more time to develop...if McCoy struggled, then week 4 or week 5 you go with your rookie...the point is in both cases it gives Weeden "more time" to develop....more time to absorb the NFL game.
i think Brandon Weeden "could" develop into an NFL QB....but right now he just isn't ready...and age aside him sitting half the year would not be the end of the world, it would probably help his development a ton. Its kinda like they planned to sit McCoy his rookie year but he got thrusted in due to injury....
The point im trying to get to is....it takes 3 years for a Qb to develop in the NFL...its year 3 you will know if he is going to be the QB you can go with or not, We had already invested time and money into McCoy, and this is year 3 for him....this should have been the year we saw that through....by starting McCoy
By starting McCoy this year it gives Weeden "time" to absorb the NFL game, learn the playbook, develop rapport with the roster, etc....we would have increased our odds of Weeden working out in our favor big time by not playing him this year or maybe bringing him in to play the last 2-3 games of this year. While Weeden soaks up the film.
If McCoy would have turned a corner this year, then we would all have been happy to have two good QB on the roster...if not, Weeden takes over next year with a better team around him, much better seasoned, and in a much better position to succeed....its a win-win.
You will find a QB who sits their 1st year usually have a better chance of working out which is why Holmgren wanted colt to redshirt his rookie year....see Carson Palmer, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Phillip Rivers for starters.....they all sat their rookie years.....3 out of 4 of those guys can be argued as the best Qb in the league, and one of them was considered a top 4 NFL QB in our own division.
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You will find a QB who sits their 1st year usually have a better chance of working out
it's been done both ways. there have been post discussions here that have shown it can work out either way and there doesn't seem to be much consistency to which is better.
and, i'd agree that we could have won the Philly game with Colt. maybe we find a way to win one of the other ones with a guy not taking chances and managing the game more than Weeden is doing.
however, Weeden is learning. no way I want to stunt that development on a team that isn't going to the playoffs without him. and, further, the Giants game is exactly WHY we need a guy like Weeden. We were not stopping the Giants offense, so we needed a guy who can get a few big plays himself. Well, see the two passes to Gordon. I am not confident that McCoy makes either of those plays.
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Last year we averaged 13 PPG against a cupcake schedule.
This year, so far, we are averaging 20 PPG, which is 18th in the NFL. In 5 games we have scored 10 TDs.
How many TDs did we score in 16 games last year? 20. We are way ahead of that pace.
Last year we had 26 20+ yard pass plays with McCoy under Center. That was in 463 total pass attempts. Wallace added 6 more in 107 pass attempts. Neither guy was effective in this area.
This year Weeden has 20 pass plays of 20+ yards in only 5 games. This is against a much more difficult schedule than we played last year. If Weeden throws 440 or so passes this year, he will probably have close to 60 pass plays of 20+ yards. That's a huge difference.
The interceptions are a concern right now, but it is only 5 games into his rookie season. His first game was disastrous, with 4 INT ..... but he's been somewhat better since. The bottom line is, though, that he is pushing the ball down the field, which was only an occasional rumor last year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Is calling McCoy a "young Matt Hasselbeck" supposed to be a selling point? Because its not a very good one.
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Is calling McCoy a "young Matt Hasselbeck" supposed to be a selling point? Because its not a very good one.
like this guy?
And a very silly thing to say, since Matt Hasselbeck was actually never young.
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If we switch to McCoy for anything short of a Theissman-esque injury to Weeden, I think I'll lose it.
The season is OVER. It is officially about developing what we've got. "Shaking things up" just for the sake of trying to get a 'W' is asinine.
We are completely in teach, evaluate, and 'plan for next year mode' - already.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Agree.
Except Shurmur won't be the coach next year.
And Weeden won't be the QB next year.
Think Geno Smith. It's going to happen.
I have mixed feelings about it, but if he's better than Weeden then let's go. I think Weeden has a chance to be really good, however. Would love to see us trade the pick for a large number of draft picks and keep Weeden.
New regime will want their guy, however.
It almost makes watching the rest of this season pointless. But I'll undoubtedly do it anyway.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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If we dump Weeden after spending a 1st rounder on him, I'm done with this team. Period.
I can damn near say the same thing about Shurmur, but I'm more concerned that we keep the same systems and am not as concerned about the coaches.
I have no idea who Gino Smith is...... which is enough reason to think that I don't want anything having anything to do with him having anything to do with this team.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm not a big college football guy either, but apparently he is like this year's RG3. I heard better arm, not quite as good ... altho still very good ... feet. I believe he's the front runner for the Heisman right now. Maybe some of the college football guys can chime in here.
I just look at it this way. If I'm the new guy coming in, I want my own people. Coaches, coordinators, players. I want to hitch my wagon to my own decisions. I'd rather fail with my own decisions than with someone else's. I don't find much fault in that line of thinking, and I would probably be the same way.
Really hope it doesn't come to that, but I just don't see anyway it won't ... barring some unforeseen huge winning streak ... which is highly unlikely, IMO.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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And Weeden won't be the QB next year.
even JaMarcus Russell got more than 1 year to prove himself.
#gmstrong
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I'm not a big college football guy either, but apparently he is like this year's RG3. I heard better arm, not quite as good ... altho still very good ... feet. I believe he's the front runner for the Heisman right now. Maybe some of the college football guys can chime in here.
Yay, more hype.
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I just look at it this way. If I'm the new guy coming in, I want my own people. Coaches, coordinators, players. I want to hitch my wagon to my own decisions. I'd rather fail with my own decisions than with someone else's. I don't find much fault in that line of thinking, and I would probably be the same way.
Really hope it doesn't come to that, but I just don't see anyway it won't ... barring some unforeseen huge winning streak ... which is highly unlikely, IMO.
I will walk away from this team and not look back. I'll have very little problem not paying attention to this sport. Heck, it'll afford me a lot more free time on Sundays 6 months out of the year. I'm done investing time and hope into continual reboots while being fed nothing but empty promises.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And Weeden won't be the QB next year.
even JaMarcus Russell got more than 1 year to prove himself.
That's speculation. Not what I want to happen.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I will walk away from this team and not look back. I'll have very little problem not paying attention to this sport. Heck, it'll afford me a lot more free time on Sundays 6 months out of the year. I'm done investing time and hope into continual reboots while being fed nothing but empty promises.
Wow Prp....thats quite a stance, and i understand be frustrated at the continual reboots. However, we had an owner in Randy Lerner that had no clue what he was doing.
We have new ownership coming in now, and they should not be forced to be hitched to the other guys wagon. Banner has a lot of expereince in the NFL, and there is no doubt he has many contacts all over the league in other front offices that im sure he asks advice from time time (which is smart) If Banner and his football men advisors feel Weeden is not a franchise QB, and Shurmur is not an NFL quality Head coach, they would be doing the fans a diservice by not bringing in people they feel are a better fit for those jobs (including QB)
The new owner just "might" have to push the reset button in order to fix the mistakes of our bumbling owner Jr. has made over the last decade...we may have to reset 1 more time to get "The right guys" (QB, HC, OC, DC, GM) in place to we can take major steps forward as an organization.
right now, Brandon Weeden controls his own destiny....He has known since preseason that a new owner is coming and he has to play somewhat decent and win a few games in order to keep his job. If Bradon Weeden is not the starting Qb in cleveland for this whole year or he is traded/cut, replaced next year, Brandon Weeden will have no one to blame but himself....he controls his own destiny here....show the new owner you are "more" then just a guy with a strong arm Brandon or your going to be replaced next year....thats the reality....either show the new people something and win a few games (to keep the Browns out of the top 5 in the draft) or your going to meet your replacement (Barkley)...its fairly simple.....
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I'm not a big college football guy either, but apparently he is like this year's RG3. I heard better arm, not quite as good ... altho still very good ... feet. I believe he's the front runner for the Heisman right now. Maybe some of the college football guys can chime in here.
Yay, more hype.
You mean that with the glut of Heisman-winning QBs that are just tearing it up in the NFL right now, it doesn't excite you that we could have the next one??
Wait, I think that was supposed to be in purple...
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Lets look at our offense...
Weeden has lead an offense that has maintained drives longer than any Browns team in recent memory. Even when DA was at his peak they were quick strike scores. With Weeden and TRich in the stable we've been able to maintain drives.
His 1st INT was a bummer because he forced something instead of throwing it away. Chalk it up to inexperience, and actually Gordon did a good job of getting open there...just bad placement. The 2nd...idk, oops. I got nothing else there...just not a great play.
If you think that Colt could make either throw to Gordon yesterday, youre kidding yourself and forgot all of last year. Colt has improved yes...and is an amazing backup yes, and is a great trade bait for the future yes (if anyone will buy)...but no, we wouldnt have won any games with Colt starting...scratch that...we wouldve won the opener...maybe...idk if we wouldve gotten 3 FGs from Phil.
Weeden has shown that he can throw it, and can make good decisions. To say he's like a Jeff George is wrong. He is more of a slinger...more of a Phillip Rivers, more of a Jay cutler (minus the headcaseness).
I mean we're seeing a QB that is doing these things...
- standing in the pocket and delivering not bailing.
- stepping up into the pocket and slinging
- driving the ball downfield
- moving the chains...
these are all things no QB has done since DA, cept Weeden has shown some ability to put the ball on the numbers in short yardage throws not just long drives downfield.
He's struggled yes...but he isnt looking terrible. He looks like a starting QB, with a penchant to make some mistakes. Eli looked very similar early. Weeders will be fine, and the offense will be fine with him.
As for the draft....can we please move to like 5-6ish and get JaDavean Clowney? He will make our pass rush amazing...Sheard and Clowney and its over.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I will walk away from this team and not look back. I'll have very little problem not paying attention to this sport. Heck, it'll afford me a lot more free time on Sundays 6 months out of the year. I'm done investing time and hope into continual reboots while being fed nothing but empty promises.
Wow Prp....thats quite a stance, and i understand be frustrated at the continual reboots. However, we had an owner in Randy Lerner that had no clue what he was doing.
We have new ownership coming in now, and they should not be forced to be hitched to the other guys wagon. Banner has a lot of expereince in the NFL, and there is no doubt he has many contacts all over the league in other front offices that im sure he asks advice from time time (which is smart) If Banner and his football men advisors feel Weeden is not a franchise QB, and Shurmur is not an NFL quality Head coach, they would be doing the fans a diservice by not bringing in people they feel are a better fit for those jobs (including QB)
The new owner just "might" have to push the reset button in order to fix the mistakes of our bumbling owner Jr. has made over the last decade...we may have to reset 1 more time to get "The right guys" (QB, HC, OC, DC, GM) in place to we can take major steps forward as an organization.
right now, Brandon Weeden controls his own destiny....He has known since preseason that a new owner is coming and he has to play somewhat decent and win a few games in order to keep his job. If Bradon Weeden is not the starting Qb in cleveland for this whole year or he is traded/cut, replaced next year, Brandon Weeden will have no one to blame but himself....he controls his own destiny here....show the new owner you are "more" then just a guy with a strong arm Brandon or your going to be replaced next year....thats the reality....either show the new people something and win a few games (to keep the Browns out of the top 5 in the draft) or your going to meet your replacement (Barkley)...its fairly simple.....
EVERYTHING you just typed is another "reboot(s) while being fed nothing but empty promises". Heck, you're making their excuses for them.
How many times will you bite on the hook when being told "this time it's different, just look at the credentials of these new guys"?
You go ahead and bite the hook and swallow the bait - I won't. If they blow it all up - again- they're going to have to EARN MY money and attention back.
They're going to have to show me success - PROVE that you're on the right track - and I'd come back. Go ahead and call me "bandwagon" --- I don't care what labels get put on me.
We've tried EVERY scheme - offensively and defensively - in the NFL. We've had coaches, GM's, Presidents, owners..... and the ONE thing that doesn't change is the fact that we're ALWAYS changing something. STOP TINKERING WITH THE DAMNED THING AND LET SOMETHING COME TOGETHER FOR ONCE!!!!
STUFF DOES NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You mean that with the glut of Heisman-winning QBs that are just tearing it up in the NFL right now, it doesn't excite you that we could have the next one??
Wait, I think that was supposed to be in purple...
if Cam & RGIII keep it up, then we may need to retire that punchline for awhile though
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If we draft Barkley, I may be all done with this team. The last thing we need is another smurf QB with a so-so arm.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The last thing we need is another smurf QB with a so-so arm.
Nobody knows what this team needs. Not you. Not me. Not the coaches, the GM or the president. Because if anyone knew WTF they were doing, we wouldn't be watching the same $#!% over and over every stinking year since '99. Maybe in the long run the only thing that will fix this franchise is a small thermonuclear device. We can only hope the new ownership can get it on track, but there are no promises there either. Watching this team has become synonymous with drinking your own bile.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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You mean that with the glut of Heisman-winning QBs that are just tearing it up in the NFL right now, it doesn't excite you that we could have the next one??
Wait, I think that was supposed to be in purple...
if Cam & RGIII keep it up, then we may need to retire that punchline for awhile though
Yeah. For the moment, though, Cam isn't looking too hot this year, and RGIII has a headache.
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Legend
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The last thing we need is another smurf QB with a so-so arm.
Nobody knows what this team needs. Not you. Not me. Not the coaches, the GM or the president. Because if anyone knew WTF they were doing, we wouldn't be watching the same $#!% over and over every stinking year since '99. Maybe in the long run the only thing that will fix this franchise is a small thermonuclear device. We can only hope the new ownership can get it on track, but there are no promises there either. Watching this team has become synonymous with drinking your own bile.
Looking at today's NFL, a short QB with a weaker than average arm isn't going to do much.
So far this year, BarKley (for those easily offended) has done the following:
He and his teammates beat up Hawaii and Syracuse.
Then they played Stanford, and Barkley went - for 254 and 2 INT. This was a home game as well.
Then they played Cal and he went 22-34 for 192 yards, with 2 TD and 2 INT.
He then rebounded with a solid game against powerhouse Utah.
Barkley does everything he does with a couple of the best receivers in the country. Woods and Lee are a spectacular duo, and if Barkley puts the ball anywhere near the, it's a catch. Further, it's likely to go for extra yards, even if the throw shouldn't.
I'd skip Barkley and take Woods and/or Lee instead. 
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Weeden has lead an offense that has maintained drives longer than any Browns team in recent memory. Even when DA was at his peak they were quick strike scores. With Weeden and TRich in the stable we've been able to maintain drives.
We averaged 288 yards and 17.4 first downs per game last year and 324 yards and 17 first downs per game this year.. The single biggest difference is that we are averaging 7 more points per game.
the offense looks more explosive, feels like it can be a lot more explosive, glimpses of explosiveness.... results aren't exactly there yet.....
yebat' Putin
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All Pro
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Weeden has shown that he can throw it, and can make good decisions. To say he's like a Jeff George is wrong. He is more of a slinger...more of a Phillip Rivers, more of a Jay cutler (minus the headcaseness).
I mean we're seeing a QB that is doing these things...
- standing in the pocket and delivering not bailing.
- stepping up into the pocket and slinging
- driving the ball downfield
- moving the chains...
I agree with your assessment, except good decisions thing. You may also forgot.
He continually making bad decisions and throwing into triple coverage.
He has problems with short to intermediate passes.
He has thrown 6ints in 2nd half, 4 of them in 4th qtr, in only 5 games. The last 2 mins he's at 42% with 2 ints not td's. He has to take care of the ball late in games.
I think that if Weeden continues to struggle late in games, lets say 3-5 games down the road, we may see McCoy.
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The schedule has gotten easier especially do to injuries to other teams. On the other hand we get Haden back we win. We should get MoMass against a weak Indy and maybe a win. If we can continue to get healthier as others go the opposite way we might have something real to cheer about.
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Weeden has shown that he can throw it, and can make good decisions. To say he's like a Jeff George is wrong. He is more of a slinger...more of a Phillip Rivers, more of a Jay cutler (minus the headcaseness).
I mean we're seeing a QB that is doing these things...
- standing in the pocket and delivering not bailing.
- stepping up into the pocket and slinging
- driving the ball downfield
- moving the chains...
I agree with your assessment, except good decisions thing. You may also forgot.
He continually making bad decisions and throwing into triple coverage.
He has problems with short to intermediate passes.
He has thrown 6ints in 2nd half, 4 of them in 4th qtr, in only 5 games. The last 2 mins he's at 42% with 2 ints not td's. He has to take care of the ball late in games.
I think that if Weeden continues to struggle late in games, lets say 3-5 games down the road, we may see McCoy.
Those are some of the most cherry-picked "facts", ever.
Triple coverage? Nobody in the NFL even runs triple coverage on a single receiver.... especially not one of ours. If you are seeing what you **THINK** is triple coverage, it is actually an open spot in a Zone.
Short to intermediate? Give me examples that shows definitively that this is a problem for him; because I see him throwing short a TON and not having a problem with it.
This is the biggest example of cherry-picking while ignoring the situation - he's a rookie QB and has been playing from behind with WR's that keep screwing him. Yes, he's made some boneheaded throws, but he's also been in crappy situations. It's a stinking learning process, not a final exam. Good grief!
You are on crack. There is no way - short of injury to Weeden, or executive order from the new owner - that you will see McCoy over Weeden. None.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
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Weeden has shown that he can throw it, and can make good decisions. To say he's like a Jeff George is wrong. He is more of a slinger...more of a Phillip Rivers, more of a Jay cutler (minus the headcaseness).
I mean we're seeing a QB that is doing these things...
- standing in the pocket and delivering not bailing.
- stepping up into the pocket and slinging
- driving the ball downfield
- moving the chains...
I agree with your assessment, except good decisions thing. You may also forgot.
He continually making bad decisions and throwing into triple coverage.
He has problems with short to intermediate passes.
He has thrown 6ints in 2nd half, 4 of them in 4th qtr, in only 5 games. The last 2 mins he's at 42% with 2 ints not td's. He has to take care of the ball late in games.
I think that if Weeden continues to struggle late in games, lets say 3-5 games down the road, we may see McCoy.
Those are some of the most cherry-picked "facts", ever.
Triple coverage? Nobody in the NFL even runs triple coverage on a single receiver.... especially not one of ours. If you are seeing what you **THINK** is triple coverage, it is actually an open spot in a Zone.
Short to intermediate? Give me examples that shows definitively that this is a problem for him; because I see him throwing short a TON and not having a problem with it.
This is the biggest example of cherry-picking while ignoring the situation - he's a rookie QB and has been playing from behind with WR's that keep screwing him. Yes, he's made some boneheaded throws, but he's also been in crappy situations. It's a stinking learning process, not a final exam. Good grief!
You are on crack. There is no way - short of injury to Weeden, or executive order from the new owner - that you will see McCoy over Weeden. None.
Cherry picked??? When i'm referring to losing games and not taking care of the ball late. How do u not mention 4th qtr stats?
Triple coverage-- Well when you throw it to someone over the middle, 3 ppl can cover you especially if they are in a zone.
First 3 games he couldnt complete a screen pass. Had problems with it all preseason.
IF..... he continued to turnover the ball late n games and couldnt get the win or sustain drives late... do you really believe that 5-6 games down the road they wouldnt give McCoy a shot???? He has to take care of the ball. He did that this past sunday. He played very well. Not that many yards but he sustained drives late. Had a bad stretch of 5? 3 n'outs. But definitely his best game yet. Is he the saviour... Idk too early to tell.
And btw that quote was taken before sunday... nice hindsight nitpicking
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