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So I hope your not blaming the cost of health insurance on this adminstration cause it started happening long ago and has been really rising since 2002.
but, when an administrations main talking point to get elected centers around this particular issue and it continues to get worse at the same (or even escalated) rate, then wouldn't you find some fault in the administration?
Tell you what, If you agree to lay the blame for healthcare cost increase until 2008 on Bush, then I'll go with you on the last 4 years.. neither has done diddely to fix the real problem. Neither even understood the real problem.
What I don't understand is this need to blame everything on Obama.. Did he help,, NO, did he cause it, NO, do I care who's to blame anymore, NO, I just want it addressed in a proper manner.
The need to lay it on Obama is because his healthcare plan has made/will make everything 1000 times worse. He is trying to force business to foot the bill for healthcare, and that is not going to happen. Businesses will just reduce hours/eat the fine/raise premiums to avoid the cost. There will be more people than ever that have to obtain individual insurance.
I don't know if you've ever looked at individual insurance, but it is much more expensive than group insurance. It covers less and deductibles are higher.
This results in much higher cost to consumers.
The actual problem of WHY does it cost so much is not being addressed at all. NOTHING is being done to reduce the cost of health care. All that has been done is a shell game of "hide the cost" and "pass it on to someone else" Absolutely zero zilch has been done to address the actual problem.
I'm not disagreeing with you on that Eve,, but damn it, if what we're going to do is speculate, then let's call it as it is, he didn't cause the problem. If there wasn't a problem, they'd have been no need for Obama to attempt to correct the problem.
Thus no need for healthcare reform,
Heck I dare say that had there not been a problem in 2008,, Obama wouldn't even have won the election.
Now, did he do a good job,, NO, he made one mistake after another,, but he at least made an effort. Something that basically nobody else has even attempted.
did he fail, sure as hell looks like it. But Obamas mistakes were made thinking he was making things better. Bush, Clinton, the prior Bush and Reagan did nothing. But to be fair, during every administration prior to the GW Bush, things weren't nearly as exaggerated and out of control as they became after about 2002.
So really the only other president that could have fixed it (or tried) was GW Bush and he did nothing.
So who's the bad guy here, the guy that had about 6 years to work on the problem and did nothing, or the guy that tried and failed.
Why did Bush do nothing? well, I'll tell you,, two things, one, he was focused on national security.. I got no issue with that, and it's a political hot potato.
I think that no matter who did what, someone would be saying it was the wrong thing to do. I have to believe that Obama knew that, but still tried.
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I don't know if you've ever looked at individual insurance, but it is much more expensive than group insurance. It covers less and deductibles are higher.
Tell me about it, I'm self employed with a few pre existing conditions. I can't get health insurance at any price. Back when I could, I paid an enormous price, I think the last premium I paid was something like 1300 or so a month, with deductable through the roof, but after that was paid, everything else was paid.
I had dental, vision, Prescriptions, dr. visits etc. Very good plan, But I had to drop it because the price was going up and so were the deductables. If I could get that insurance today, it would be 1600 to 1800 a month and the deductables would be off the charts.
That ALL HAPPENED PRIOR TO OBAMA ANNOUNCING THAT HE WAS RUNNING FOR OFFICE.
Again, anyway you want to spin it, the problem was not of Obamas making.. I think his actions will make it worse, but he didn't cause the problem.
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The actual problem of WHY does it cost so much is not being addressed at all. NOTHING is being done to reduce the cost of health care. All that has been done is a shell game of "hide the cost" and "pass it on to someone else" Absolutely zero zilch has been done to address the actual problem.
Technically, that's not 100% correct. Medicare has, along with many insurance companies, started a grading process. But Medicare, believe it or not, is leadiing the way. The reason I know this is because I'm actually involved in a product that, if I'm lucky, will eventually be adopted by all hospitals as a tool to get more favorable marks on patient surveys.
Here's how it's supposed to work. If you are a patient of the Cleveland Clinic, you may receive a survey. If in the survey, the grade you give the clinic gets mixed with others and if it comes out high, then, Medicare will pay more for the service, if it comes out lower then (some percentage), they pay less..
Medicare is actually leading the way on this.. Hey, what do you know, a feel good story about a federal program.. who'd a thunk it LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I am pretty much in agreement with everything you are saying. Obama didnt cause it, but he put in place policies that will make it worse. And he is going around acting like he saved healthcare. That is why he is getting blamed.
I am in the same boat with ins. Self employed, pre existing conditions and denied by ins companies. When I was on cobra, the ins I had was 300 bucks a month and did not cover any of my medications or tests or procedures unless I met very high deductibles. It was like giving away money to ins companies, getting nothing in return, and still having to pay my medical bills entirely out of pocket. This is such a sore topic for me.
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It may have had some roots in Republican policies, but that does not make it center right.
Some roots?
It was devised by the Heritage Foundation, touted by the GOP, and enacted on a state level by the GOP's current nominee.
Some roots?
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I gave several examples, like tax structure and so on that are left, rather than right policies.
And, as usual, your examples were muddled by the warped lens you tend to view facts through.
His tax policy is very moderate, and right of center.
Extending the Bush cuts, coupled with his own breaks, gave us the lowest tax rates in 30 years.
Currently, he wants to go back to Clinton era rates for income and capital gains (another center-right president) and lower corporate rates.
His positions are moderate, and right of center.
This touches on what I said earlier about the country shifting right... by your standard, Reagan's tax policy would be considered left.
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I would also include the Obama administration stepping back in the world, allowing others to lead, while we follow. This has been a left leaning policy.
That would be a characterization that belongs in Fantasyland, where Brian Daboll did a great job in Miami and the Iraq War was a good idea in hindsight.
If you consider his foreign policy actions to date to be 'stepping back in the world, allowing others to lead, while we follow', I don't know that we can have a rational conversation. The guy is about as hawkish as it gets.
How is invading countries and firing missiles at an unprecedented rate 'stepping back in the world'?
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So I will ask you again .... what Obama policies do you see that are "center-right"?
Foreign policy
Economic policy
Tax policy
Gun control policy
Most policies, actually. A more pertinent question would be where isn't he center-right.
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How does he lean left on gun control?
First of all, where did I say he leaned-left on gun control? I said he leaned left on social issues. I listed gun control in there as an example of a social issue, for further clarification of what types of issues I was talking about. I you took it that way, then I apologize.
I still don't think he is right-leaning when it come to gun control. I'd call him middle. In 2008, his platform included a ban on assault weapons . Overall, he's in favor of more gun control laws. Just because he hasn't been able to pass any through Congress, that doesn't make him right-leaning on gun control. In his own words from the article "Even if I want to take them away, I don’t have the votes in Congress." Obama knows he would be unable to get many gun control laws passed, and he knows it would cost him some votes, just like it did in 2008.
You might not consider gay rights a left/right issue, but most people do (see the Wiki entry I quoted). Just another area where your definition of right and left differs from mine.
But thank you for ignoring my other statements and focusing on just this one issue. That shows that I must be right on the other issues.
I'm still not sure how you can say his economic policies have been right-leaning, besides the Bush tax-cuts.
Increased regulation and government influence on companies and banks - Yep
Increased federal government spending and power - Yep
Not really sure how you can spin that besides the Bush tax cuts 
On health care, you are missing the whole point. You need to get over the idea that Republican = Right, Democrat = Left. Just because it has it's roots in the GOP, doesn't make it right-leaning.
Does it increase government regulation of the healthcare industry? Yes
Has it been politicized as a boost to the working class (i.e. people that can't afford healthcare)? Yes
In my eyes, that makes it a left-leaning idea, not matter who started it, Republican or Democrat.
Last edited by CribbsHero; 10/13/12 07:21 PM.
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I am pretty much in agreement with everything you are saying. Obama didnt cause it, but he put in place policies that will make it worse. And he is going around acting like he saved healthcare. That is why he is getting blamed.
I am in the same boat with ins. Self employed, pre existing conditions and denied by ins companies. When I was on cobra, the ins I had was 300 bucks a month and did not cover any of my medications or tests or procedures unless I met very high deductibles. It was like giving away money to ins companies, getting nothing in return, and still having to pay my medical bills entirely out of pocket. This is such a sore topic for me.
IF you really feel that way, then instead of even thinking about placing blame on Obama, why don't you just call it what it is, Bush did nothing and Obama tried and failed, or at least it appears that way.
His plan isn't fully in place yet so EVERYTHING is a guess as to what will happen.
Now, I happen to think he messed up badly.. JMO, but at this point, that's all it is, an opinion.
What we absolutly know for sure is that Bush did nothing and the problem only got worse.
No matter how you slice it,, you have the tale of two presidents,, one who didn't even recognize the problem so he did nothing or he recognized the problem and still did nothing, and one who recognized the problem and tried but by all accounts, put a plan in place that will fail.. Of course, that depends on who you talk to.
Don't ya just love opinions.. LOL
What scares me most is this, what if Romney wins and then does the ostrich trick and buries his head in the sand (ala bush) after he kills Obamacare we're right back to where we were before Obama was elected.
If Romney comes in and keeps everything as it is for those of us over 55,, AND requires insurance companies to allow folks with Pre Existing conditions to get insurance, then I'm golden.
Of course, those 55 years old and younger are gonna get hammered under the plan that Ryan explained the other night.
Tell you what, if your 50 years old today, and you put into place a plan that included Medicare and Social Security as components of your retirement,, you are gonna get nailed big time...
On the other hand, if your 30 years old, you have plenty of time to adjust your planning. At 60, I don't have a chance to adjust in a meaningful way.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If you raise rates only on the top end, then how is extending the Bush tax cuts, except for that bracket, a right stance?
It's not even close.
He cut the payroll tax percentage. That favors lower incomes on a percentage basis, as the payroll taxes have an income cut off.
As far as healthcare goes, can you give me a House or Senate bill number where the Republicans introduced healthcare as a bill? Lots of people float lots of ideas. I don't recall the context of the healthcare proposition you brought up. Was it in response to Hillarycare, and introduced as a better option? Did it include tort reform? Did it include allowing competition across state lines? What was the flesh of the proposal?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Rule #1:
Judge a politician on his actions, not his words.
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I'm not one who believes in the whole left/right mentality as I don't think things are or should be black and white portrayals. I'm with George Washington when it comes to political parties as well.
That being said, I see your points, but I'd have to disagree with an assertion that Obama is moderate right when it comes to a fiscal perspective.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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If you refuse to have this done by a for-profit business, and insist that Government do this job, for the same amount of money, fewer people will be fed. There may, or may not, be fewer people who get fat or have heart trouble, years down the road.
Having been in the grocery store in line with a lot of people paying with some form of government assistance, I can assure you that what they are buying is no better, and often worse, than what they could get at McDonalds.
yebat' Putin
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If you refuse to have this done by a for-profit business, and insist that Government do this job, for the same amount of money, fewer people will be fed. There may, or may not, be fewer people who get fat or have heart trouble, years down the road.
Having been in the grocery store in line with a lot of people paying with some form of government assistance, I can assure you that what they are buying is no better, and often worse, than what they could get at McDonalds.
I can't remember the last time I was in line with anyone paying with some form of assistance. But then I live in Aurora Ohio and the only grocery store we have is Heinens. Well, not accurate, there is Marcs but I don't generally shop there. It's one of those places that is all heavy discount so maybe that's where they go. Not sure.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Try going into a convenience store that makes subs around the first of the month.
If I go to the corner store near my old house around the first of the month, there will, inevitably, be someone with a food stamp card buying 5 whole subs, 3 or 4 bags of chips, pop ..... to the tune of $60-$70 or more.
Then, of course, they buy smokes, beer, and play the lottery with cash ..........
I have 2 grocery stores in my general area, and I will see people there using the food stamp card ...... buying junk galore. It's amazing. While the program does help some families avoid hunger, to pretend that there isn't massive fraud and abuse of the system is idiotic. Look at women who are on food stamps, but who are living with their boyfriends. (who have jobs ...... but are not part of her "declared income") Look at the people who work under the table. (from strippers, to bartenders, to people who do "day care" in their homes ........ and landscaping ... work at corner stores, and down the line.) Fraud is a massive problem ...... yet we just expanded the program to create more.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well it's much harder to tell these days because they use cards that look like ordinary debit/credit cards because counting out food stamps was evidently too embarrassing so it is much harder to tell any more.
yebat' Putin
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Well it's much harder to tell these days because they use cards that look like ordinary debit/credit cards because counting out food stamps was evidently too embarrassing so it is much harder to tell any more.
I seriously doubt they started using a Debit card type thing to avoid embarrassment.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No, that is not the biggest reason they switched but...
ELECTRONIC CARDS REPLACE COUPONS FOR FOOD STAMPS
By ROBERT PEAR; Mary Spicuzza contributed reporting from New York for this article
Published: June 23, 2004
The Bush administration announced Tuesday that it had completed one of the biggest changes in the history of the food stamp program, replacing paper coupons with electronic benefits and debit cards.
At the same time, the administration said it wanted to rename the program because the term ''food stamps'' had become an anachronism. It is inviting the public to suggest how to update the name of a program that became a permanent part of the government, and the nation's vocabulary, during Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society era.
Electronic benefits have replaced food stamp coupons in all states, and more than half the states now issue electronic benefits in place of welfare checks as well. In addition, some states are using debit cards for Medicaid and the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children.
Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman declared an end to the ''paper era'' of the food stamp program on Tuesday at a conference of state officials here.
''This month the food stamp program arrived in the 21st century,'' Ms. Veneman said. ''States are destroying the paper coupons, and we don't anticipate that we'll ever have to print them again.''
Food stamp recipients generally like debit cards because they avoid the stigma that can be associated with the use of paper coupons. Grocers like the new technology because they are paid faster, often within 48 hours; cashiers do not have to handle vouchers; and there are no coupons to sort, count and bundle.
It is recognized as an added benefit to users....
yebat' Putin
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Joe Biden - as VP - is the President of the Senate.
Now...seeing how he behaved in the debate, is it any wonder that Congress cannot come to many agreements and compromise on what's best for the people?
Same can be said for the POTUS, on the rare occasion that he is actually engaged in a non-campaign discussion and without a teleprompter.
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No kidding. They laugh, smirk and insult then complain that the republicans stonewall them.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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The Republicans have passed budgets in the House. They have tried to bring them up in the Senate. The Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, will not even allow a budget to be brought to the floor for fear that it might somehow pass.
Are the budgets brought forth perfect? Probably not. Hell, in my opinion, they don't cut deeply enough, because they mainly cut the growth of spending as opposed to actually cutting spending.
However, Reid will not allow a budget to even make it to the floor of the Senate. They won't be allowed out of committee. It's pathetic, and unconscionable.
The Democrat leadership has failed in their primary responsibility which is to produce a budget so that the government can continue to run. If it weren't for a continual stream of continuing resolutions, the government would have been shut down, and should have been shut down rather than continuing funding at inflated levels that just add trillions of dollars to the debt. It would have been difficult for the Republicans to stand up and say "Enough", but if they put forth a continuing resolution that covered only things like Social Security, Medicare, pensions, and so on, and said "Enough is enough" on the rest of the spending, no Democrat would have dared vote against such a resolution. Eliminate the rest until and unless the Democrats actually decide to work the budget process the way they are supposed to.
I just find it amazing that we have gone 3+ years without a budget in Washington, and we wonder why we have added over $6 trillion to an already out of control Debt. I hate to think what will happen if interest rates go up by even just 1/2%.
Well, let's get an idea of what would happen.
$16 trillion X .5% = $80 billion more on the federal budget just in interest for one year. Keep that kinda stuff up and pretty soon you're talking about real money. Further, that's not interest on the debt ...... just the increase in the cost of interest on the debt that a 0.5% increase in interest rates would cause.
We need new leadership in the Senate. We need new leadership in the White House. Will things get better? I don't know for sure ..... but they sure aren't going to improve with the clowns we have in power in the Senate and White House right now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, how rude of Biden to call them out on their lies.
Good job Joe, somebody needs to stop being nice anf tell the truth. If thats "being rude" then so be it.
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Yeah, how rude of Biden to call them out on their lies.
Good job Joe, somebody needs to stop being nice anf tell the truth. If thats "being rude" then so be it.
King
Calling them out with childish smirking, arrogance and idiotic interrupting? I got news for you, Biden told his share of lies that night also. You'd think in his position he would have shown a bit of professionalism and maturity in calling someone out. Anybody that applauds his behavior probably lacks those traits himself.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Maybe, but your childish attempt to take a shot at me says a lot about you.
Good job Joe, keep it up.
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Maybe, but your childish attempt to take a shot at me says a lot about you.
You should've seen the smirk on my face when I did it! 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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How dare you!!!!!! No smirks allowed!!!
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Yeah, how rude of Biden to call them out on their lies.
Good job Joe, somebody needs to stop being nice anf tell the truth. If thats "being rude" then so be it.
King
Stop being nice?
Biden looked like an idiotic fool with his demeanor, his laughing, his interrupting, his belligerence.
His actions were very unbecoming of ANY one in a debate, let alone the v.p. of the USA. Seriously, he looked like a fool. I understand why, because O looked foolishly unprepared and entitled in his debate, so they told ole Joe to go to the extreme.
If O acts like that tonight, game over.
Facts? Tell me, what are the facts about - and I'm going to spell it wrong - Benghazi? This admin has changed stories several times.
What are the facts about unemployment? It sure isn't 7.8%. (don't like the numbers? Change how they're figured, right?)
What are the facts about the gm bailout? Didn't W start that? And even so, it was wrong.
What are the facts about Obama care? Oh, that's right, not even O knows. Gotta read it before you know, right? Employers are currently looking to get out of health care coverage.......the exact opposite of what O thought.
What are the facts about our deficit, and debt? O sure doesn't have a clue.
It's nice that, the day before a debate, Hillary took the fall for the lack of protection at the embassy. That's convenient.
But, according to O, he was "too nice" in his last debate, that's why he lost. It has nothing to do with his failed policies - it's someone else's fault.
The world wide apology tours.........please.
Ignoring an ally.........please.
Didn't O say, in 2009, maybe 2010, that the buck stops with him?
Didn't O say, when running for president, that if he doesn't have this turned around in 3 years, he'll be a 1 term president? Has our unemployment - REAL unemployment - increased?
How about all the money thrown at "green energy" companies, most of which have gone bankrupt.
How about the money sent to China to help them with developing batteries? How about all the coal fired energy plants closing in the U.S. - with NO replacement for energy? Trust me bud, your electric bill and mine will, and are, reflecting that.
Look, there isn't one thing O has done that is worthy of anything. At least, if he wins, he'll be able to "be more flexible with Russia."
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Maybe, but your childish attempt to take a shot at me says a lot about you.
Good job Joe, keep it up.
King
It would have been if he was right.
He wasn't.
He said that Ryan voted twice for the war and put it on a credit card and he didn't vote for it, he did vote for them, twice.
He said that he was there, in the room in 83, when Tip O'Neill and Reagan negotiated on Social Security. He wasn't.
He's lies like used car salesman.
#GMSTRONG
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So you admit that The Republicans are the ones who refuse to work with the Dems based on personal dislikes. Yeah thats real professional.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Joe is all these things yet he mopped floor with the lying little weasel Ryan. What would you expect though, Romney/Ryan change their stance and contradict their own words from hour to hour and old crazy Joe called them on the mat forit.
Game over for Obama if he does it? I think you have it twisted, its game over if he keeps letting Romney talk slick and make his lies sound good.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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So you admit that The Republicans are the ones who refuse to work with the Dems based on personal dislikes. Yeah thats real professional.
I see you got the dem memo on lying about what people said. <smirk>
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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So you admit that The Republicans are the ones who refuse to work with the Dems based on personal dislikes. Yeah thats real professional.
I see you got the dem memo on lying about what people said. <smirk>
No, why would The Dems send a memo to a Republican?
And commenting on how your words came accross to me, and lying are two different things.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Here we go again. Mud slinging in the blame game while the monarchs from both parties laugh as they bend all of America over.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Here we go again. Mud slinging in the blame game while the monarchs from both parties laugh as they bend all of America over.
The guy I like is better.
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Actually, I am not really much of a fan of either. Just am calling it the way i see it. I just dislike one more than another.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Just a comment ...... I just love how Obama and Biden keep saying that Romney and Ryan wanted to let GM go bankrupt (and was said again tonight in the Presidential debate) ........ but that's exactly what happened. GM DID go bankrupt. The only thing is that Obama/Biden dumped $50 billion into GM as they went bankrupt.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Actually, I am not really much of a fan of either. Just am calling it the way i see it. I just dislike one more than another.
I was kidding. 
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Paul Ryan was in Berea today with a contingent of political types, including Condoleeza Rice.
He had the whole locker room cracking up when he looked Colt McCoy right in the eye and said "great job at Oklahoma State".
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Hopefully he left this at home... 
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Paul Ryan was in Berea today with a contingent of political types, including Condoleeza Rice.
He had the whole locker room cracking up when he looked Colt McCoy right in the eye and said "great job at Oklahoma State".
He did win there twice.
#gmstrong
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Try going into a convenience store that makes subs around the first of the month.
If I go to the corner store near my old house around the first of the month, there will, inevitably, be someone with a food stamp card buying 5 whole subs, 3 or 4 bags of chips, pop ..... to the tune of $60-$70 or more.
Then, of course, they buy smokes, beer, and play the lottery with cash ..........
I have 2 grocery stores in my general area, and I will see people there using the food stamp card ...... buying junk galore. It's amazing. While the program does help some families avoid hunger, to pretend that there isn't massive fraud and abuse of the system is idiotic. Look at women who are on food stamps, but who are living with their boyfriends. (who have jobs ...... but are not part of her "declared income") Look at the people who work under the table. (from strippers, to bartenders, to people who do "day care" in their homes ........ and landscaping ... work at corner stores, and down the line.) Fraud is a massive problem ...... yet we just expanded the program to create more.
Yes that's one example you can expound as if it's the general rule. Massive? Would or could you give us some percentage as to what you think "massive" is exactly?
OR, you could speak about children, retired people on a fixed income, disabled people and all of those that truely need and deserve the benifits.
I just wonder,,,, out of all of those that recieve food assitance in your area, just what percentage of those you actually see doing this?
I know and agree that what you are saying is true. But what you seem to be doing, is acting or implying that this is a standard practice by those that recieve such benifits. When in fact, it's a very small percentage that do that.
As with everything including tax shelters, off shore accounts and the like.......... a small percentage of people can give a very large group of people a bad name and permit people to label the entire group.
When the fact is, millions of elderly people and parents with small incomes actually use this program as was intended, adhere to the rules, do not abuse them and need them.
I don't see a lot of that part mentioned here.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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For the most part, you can tell who needs the benefits and who doesn't by what they spend their food credits on. A family of 4 can qualify for a maximum benefit of $518 in the state of Ohio. (at least according to this site that I found with a very quick internet search. I see people blowing through $150 or more, mainly on junk, frequently at the local grocery stores. I see people going to the convenience store spending $70+ on what will be one meal in subs and accessories. Now bear in mind that if someone is getting the maximum on food stamps, then they are not working at all. There is no credit for work that I can find. I have no doubt that there are people who legitimately need help, and who we should help. I do, however, feel that there could be better oversight of the program. I do feel that there is too much fraud and abuse of the system. There are women living with boyfriends, and lying about it, when they are not allowed to from an income basis. People have others living with them in section 8 housing in violation of their agreements. Welfare programs have rules, but many are simply ignored. One of the main reasons that they went to a card was fraud. People would sell their food stamps for cash. Not everyone, but many. It is easier to track a store, and see if they are using more EBT benefits compared to their sales than it is to see if a store owner (or anyone else, for that matter) is buying stamps from someone, and then taking them elsewhere to shop, or if a store owner is allowing food stamps to be used for liquor and cigarettes.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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But what you seem to be doing, is acting or implying that this is a standard practice by those that recieve such benifits. When in fact, it's a very small percentage that do that.
I assume since you are challenging ytown to prove that a lot of people abuse the system... you are prepared to prove they don't?
yebat' Putin
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I have no doubt that there are people who legitimately need help, and who we should help.
As do I.
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I do, however, feel that there could be better oversight of the program.
I don't disagree with this train of thought but I think we get into a gray area here. At what cost? From many reports I have read, Florida actually enstated drug testing for welfare recipiants as one method of cutting the cost of benifits and the state is actually losing money from this program.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/20/2758871/floridas-welfare-drug-tests-cost.html
So while I agree these abuses do exist, would it cost more to enforce many of these laws and guidelines than a state would save?
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I do feel that there is too much fraud and abuse of the system. There are women living with boyfriends, and lying about it, when they are not allowed to from an income basis. People have others living with them in section 8 housing in violation of their agreements.
And I agree that this is also true. But once again, would you be willing to increase the overall cost of these programs in order to stop the abuse?
I think it's a lose/lose proposition. It sickens me to see benifits being paid out that aren't deserved. At the same time, these programs are so expencive, I don't feel most would want to see those costs rise even further.
I don't have a clear cut answer for this situation but I do understand your frustation. And I do feel the reason we see some of these guidelines being abused is simply that the cost of enforcing them strictly would far outweigh the savings we would see from the abuse.
I'm not saying any of that is right by any means....
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Welfare programs have rules, but many are simply ignored. One of the main reasons that they went to a card was fraud. People would sell their food stamps for cash. Not everyone, but many. It is easier to track a store, and see if they are using more EBT benefits compared to their sales than it is to see if a store owner (or anyone else, for that matter) is buying stamps from someone, and then taking them elsewhere to shop, or if a store owner is allowing food stamps to be used for liquor and cigarettes.
I also think it would be far more economical to simply add monthly benifits electronicly than it would be to print out and use the postal system to deliver benifits using the old program.
We don't really disagree here but I do feel the vast majority of people who do qualify for these benifits are using them properly and need these benifits.
To me, I feel the ones who are so brazen as you have described certainly make it hard for people to see beyond that many times.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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