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I'm not taking his word. I said I agreed with that part of his article based on my own opinion formulated on Holmgrens body of work and the reports of the Cleveland Media as a whole. But don't worry I won't be calling Mike for playoff tickets.
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Just my opinion, but I can see through my distaste for Grossi on this one. Many of the moves we've made with Holmgren at the wheel can be explained by a half-hearted effort. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen, but I don't think the main point behind Grossi's article is all that outrageous.
Now, I'm not taking it as 100% truth, either. The one thing I'm having trouble with is the character aspect of this. A guy like Holmgren doesn't go from coach-extraordinaire to lazy and worthless like that. Sure, he might not have had the energy to step in as coach, but that doesn't mean he's lazy and refuses to run the team. I just don't see a guy that has the attitude to be such a successful coach to turn around and be a lazy President. Ineffective, sure, but not lazy.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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“What if this doesn’t work? Lerner will have to sell.”
I don't agree with this at all. RL was planning on selling, right after Al passed away. But he had to wait 10 yrs. It's a shame it had to happen when everyone was so pumped about the up coming season. What looked like a bright future went down the drain right after the news broke. Everything talked about during the Spring and after the draft....just stopped. You could feel the season slip away just hearing the coaches and players talking about it. It's a shame too. Maybe next year, we can be excited once again, with a new start.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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To top off the others points (alot of the media types have admitted to only wanting him here to coach) I cant beleive Tony thinks Jim Brown did anything here at all.
What did Mike do so bad there sending him home instead of talking in Lerners ear?
I can understand Norma may have been upset at the moving the family friend out of security but again what really changed there?
Tonys always had an axe to grind. Now I can agree with Shurmur was a bad hire.
I however think Holmgren had done alot to improve this team. I have said I thought we were going to be a contending team next year and I have not said that in a long time.
Mike gets the credit for that. Banner will either get credit for wrecking it or building onto it. All IMHO.
Tony Grossi will get credit for sucking up to anyone who can possibly get him back into the loop. Jim Brown really?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I have said I thought we were going to be a contending team next year and I have not said that in a long time.
Mike gets the credit for that. Banner will either get credit for wrecking it or building onto it. All IMHO.
Wrecking what? We're 1-6. We are a bad football team.
Potential promise doesn't equal accomplishment.
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I have said I thought we were going to be a contending team next year and I have not said that in a long time.
Mike gets the credit for that. Banner will either get credit for wrecking it or building onto it. All IMHO.
Wrecking what? We're 1-6. We are a bad football team.
Potential promise doesn't equal accomplishment.
If yiou dont believe we a better team and after another draft will be better and looking to make a playoff push then I dont know what your seeing on the field.
If you only look at the records then fine thats all you see. Having watched football as much as you have and knowing talent when seeing it I dont believe you cant see it. Of course I could be wrong and maybe you dont. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Do you know many times I've sat through the 'If you don't think we're better...' argument?
Butch, Romeo, Mangini, etc.
I'll say it again - we're a bad football team with a bad record. There's nothing to wreck.
Do we have a lot of potential? Yes.
But potential means zip. Most fans think their teams have potential. But that doesn't make them good.
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Do you know many times I've sat through the 'If you don't think we're better...' argument?
Butch, Romeo, Mangini, etc.
I'll say it again - we're a bad football team with a bad record. There's nothing to wreck.
Do we have a lot of potential? Yes.
But potential means zip. Most fans think their teams have potential. But that doesn't make them good.
Well if your only talking coaching then that is a different story. However Haslam is on record as saying a new coach sets a team back "2-3 years" and guess what year this is for Shurmur?
So while everyone wants to bash I see the progress we have made over the 3 years. I can understand others wanting to see if Pat also is progessing. Im not sold on that but this team is better then when Mike took over.
If you cant see that...
I guess you (and I ) will sit though it again if Banner wrecks it. Even though to you, more of the same old, under those failed programs you mentioned would be ok because hey we are going to hold people accountable.
Darn my soup tastes cold, its been on the stove for 15 mintues and it says cook for 25 minutes. Im tossing it out and starting over. That should work.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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However Haslam is on record as saying a new coach sets a team back "2-3 years" and guess what year this is for Shurmur?
I would like to see that quote, and in the exact context you mean for it to be taken. I suspect that isn't remotely the case.
That sounds a whole lot like Mac's intepretation of what Haslam said, who stated that a new coach is a "cause" where losing then becomes the "effect."
The truth is that it's the other way around, but if Haslam has said something to the contrary, I'd be more than happy to read it...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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However Haslam is on record as saying a new coach sets a team back "2-3 years" and guess what year this is for Shurmur?
I would like to see that quote, and in the exact context you mean for it to be taken. I suspect that isn't remotely the case.
That sounds a whole lot like Mac's intepretation of what Haslam said, who stated that a new coach is a "cause" where losing then becomes the "effect."
The truth is that it's the other way around, but if Haslam has said something to the contrary, I'd be more than happy to read it...
The context Im taking it in is that a new coach will set your franchise back 2-3 years. His words and you can look it up its been quoted alot. Im not backing sticking with Shurmur I really dont lilke him. I was just stating that he is actually at that point in time, and if he gave up play calling I would be fine with him sticking for next year.
That is how I feel. If they fire him its going to take another 2 years+ to get everything to where we are now.
Ive asked many times who is going to replace him? Leave the normal fantasy people out. Its going to be another Shurmur. New guy learning on the job.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Oh I don't neccesarily know about that..Here's an idea that was mentioned to me 2 weeks ago.. I'll keep the suggester private for now. Just a name in the hat right now..
Brad Seely
AHC / ST here and San Fran. ST guys are generally decent coaches.
SaintDawg™
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Oh I don't neccesarily know about that..Here's an idea that was mentioned to me 2 weeks ago.. I'll keep the suggester private for now. Just a name in the hat right now..
Brad Seely
AHC / ST here and San Fran. ST guys are generally decent coaches.
Ill give you credit at least you brought a name to the table. Still have the same problem of its going to take him through the whole learning process and if we dont give him 1.5 years to do that was he good or bad?
Shurmur I have have disliked from the start. But hes at the point and this team is at the point that they should all be progressing together.
Shurmur is hard headed and as much as I want him gone there are areas I think he could if not being so darn bull headed about calling plays I think he could also progress. Thats on him and not the new ownership. Just stinks that he doesnt see it. All IMHO of course.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Thanks.. it wasn't my idea originally, but I do like the idea. I have no problem bringing a name to the table seeing as how I think Shurm is toast.
I could make a case that Seely is from the Harbaugh tree.. I don't know how that fits with Banner and Haslam.
SaintDawg™
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Thanks.. it wasn't my idea originally, but I do like the idea. I have no problem bringing a name to the table seeing as how I think Shurm is toast.
I could make a case that Seely is from the Harbaugh tree.. I don't know how that fits with Banner and Haslam.
I was wondering, just on something you said about ST coaches do good, if that is because they have a fire in them always wanting to GO GO GO.
I would actually be down (good) with him. All of us have no idea how this would all play out but he would be someone I could at least feel good about going forward.
Harbaughs Im not totally sold on but they so far have produced results so I cant complain there.  They would feel like a tree Haslam could latch onto.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I have said I thought we were going to be a contending team next year and I have not said that in a long time.
Mike gets the credit for that. Banner will either get credit for wrecking it or building onto it. All IMHO.
Wrecking what? We're 1-6. We are a bad football team.
Potential promise doesn't equal accomplishment.
If yiou dont believe we a better team and after another draft will be better and looking to make a playoff push then I dont know what your seeing on the field.
If you only look at the records then fine thats all you see. Having watched football as much as you have and knowing talent when seeing it I dont believe you cant see it. Of course I could be wrong and maybe you dont.
Yeah, I agree with that. There is a lot of pretty decent player on this team, and a few potential stars. I tend to look at it right now like having some quality ingredients, but also having a cook with no experience, recipes, and who doesn't like to measure. Blaming the ingredients when the cook has no idea what he's doing makes little sense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have said I thought we were going to be a contending team next year and I have not said that in a long time.
Mike gets the credit for that. Banner will either get credit for wrecking it or building onto it. All IMHO.
Wrecking what? We're 1-6. We are a bad football team.
Potential promise doesn't equal accomplishment.
If yiou dont believe we a better team and after another draft will be better and looking to make a playoff push then I dont know what your seeing on the field.
If you only look at the records then fine thats all you see. Having watched football as much as you have and knowing talent when seeing it I dont believe you cant see it. Of course I could be wrong and maybe you dont.
Yeah, I agree with that. There is a lot of pretty decent player on this team, and a few potential stars. I tend to look at it right now like having some quality ingredients, but also having a cook with no experience, recipes, and who doesn't like to measure. Blaming the ingredients when the cook has no idea what he's doing makes little sense.
But that's my point... people are pretending like the 'ingredients' are good, when there's no establishment.
People are getting giddy over the likes of Weeden and Gordon ... remember when people were giddy over the likes of DA and Braylon, Winslow, etc.?
We have no proven track record. None.
Weeden can still bust, easily. As can Gordon. As can Sheard. Etc., etc., etc.
Who on this squad is proven?
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I have said I thought we were going to be a contending team next year and I have not said that in a long time.
Mike gets the credit for that. Banner will either get credit for wrecking it or building onto it. All IMHO.
Wrecking what? We're 1-6. We are a bad football team.
Potential promise doesn't equal accomplishment.
If yiou dont believe we a better team and after another draft will be better and looking to make a playoff push then I dont know what your seeing on the field.
If you only look at the records then fine thats all you see. Having watched football as much as you have and knowing talent when seeing it I dont believe you cant see it. Of course I could be wrong and maybe you dont.
Yeah, I agree with that. There is a lot of pretty decent player on this team, and a few potential stars. I tend to look at it right now like having some quality ingredients, but also having a cook with no experience, recipes, and who doesn't like to measure. Blaming the ingredients when the cook has no idea what he's doing makes little sense.
But that's my point... people are pretending like the 'ingredients' are good, when there's no establishment.
People are getting giddy over the likes of Weeden and Gordon ... remember when people were giddy over the likes of DA and Braylon, Winslow, etc.?
We have no proven track record. None.
Weeden can still bust, easily. As can Gordon. As can Sheard. Etc., etc., etc.
Who on this squad is proven?
But you can say that about any young player, on any team.
I look at players, and how their skills display on the field. In the case of Weeden, as I have said all along, I look at accuracy, ball placement, arm strength, leadership, and those types of qualities, and I see him as having plus ability in many of them. I would add in intelligence as well, as he learned this offense in no time flat.
I look at a guy like Gordon, and his combination of "easy speed", elusiveness, ability to get open, and ability to catch the ball, and I see good things there. He gets open deep, yet looks almost like he is just jogging down the field. He has plus characteristics.
There are others as well, but you get the idea. I actually like our OL, but feel that they are being abused by poor coaching. I think that we have 2 excellent Tackles.
There are other examples as well. Obviously there are no guarantees, but you can evaluate individual players, as well as units. For the most part, I believe that individual players shine because of talent, and individual units shine because of coaching. Right now we have more players showing up individually than units playing well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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+1
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I think that we have 1 excellent Tackle. And 1 getting his rookie schooling in the NFL Tackle position
Fixed that for you.
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But you can say that about any young player, on any team.
Much like many have done on this board for many years.
Honestly ... how many times have a large number of posters thought we were 'turning the corner'?
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I look at players, and how their skills display on the field. In the case of Weeden, as I have said all along, I look at accuracy, ball placement, arm strength, leadership, and those types of qualities, and I see him as having plus ability in many of them. I would add in intelligence as well, as he learned this offense in no time flat.
And this equates to proven how?
Weeden has a higher likelihood of being a bust than a success at this point.
Time will tell, and I'm very, very happy with what I've seen. But the above remains true.
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I look at a guy like Gordon, and his combination of "easy speed", elusiveness, ability to get open, and ability to catch the ball, and I see good things there. He gets open deep, yet looks almost like he is just jogging down the field. He has plus characteristics.
He also has minus characteristics.
I'll ask again ... proven?
The guy has had, what, three good games? And we're ready to say we're wrecking something if a new regime comes in?
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I think that we have 2 excellent Tackles.
You would classify Schwartz as excellent?
That's unproven optimism if I've ever seen it.
Do we have a lot of potential on this team? Absolutely.
Would I consider a tear down to be 'wrecking' it? No. I don't want a complete tear down, but you can't 'wreck' something that hasn't been built.
We're a bad 1-6 team. Period. It may be a step up from where we've been, but it's nothing proven or solidified. It could be over time, but it could also be fool's gold we lament down the line.
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Well, through 7 games we have allowed 11 sacks.
8 of those sacks came in the 1st 3 games.
In the past 4 games:
Baltimore sacked Weeden once. They have 12 sacks on the season.
The Giants sacked Weeden Zero times. The Giants have 17 sacks on the season.
The Bengals sacked Weeden 2 times in the 2nd game. They are 2nd in the NFL with 23 sacks.
The Colts did not sack Weeden. They have 13 sacks on the season.
That's 3 sacks allowed, in 4 games, and 157 pass attempts.
That's excellent, especially given that Weeden throws down the field frequently.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Take the Texans...they are the SAME team they were 1-2 years ago...they got a new DC, sticked to their HC, who was VERY close to getting fired 2 years ago after 2-3 years of this SAME "promise" talk (losing close games in the most stupid fashion: remember the Rosenfells "helicopter" loss?) and they never even had an above .500 record EVER before....so why are they NOW a dominant team and weren't 1-2 years ago with the same players?
Yeah, I guess their success has nothing to do with young, promising players growing TOGETHER with the SAME HC/system...continuity probably had nothing to do with it. One thing's for sure...you can hire Jesus Christ as your HC and God as your GM, but we won't see a real winner (mirage like 2007 always possible) even with them for 2-3 years at least because of system and personnel/scouting switch...how about we "waste" those 2-3 years on "promising" continuity for once?
And before anyone reminds me I was the 1st who wanted Mangini gone...we never had this situation before or do you consider Barton, Poteat, Coleman, Royal, Stuckey, StClair, Bowens, Robaire Smith, Elam, Sorensen, Womack, Hadnot, Jamal Lewis, Heiden, Fraley, Costanzo etc a "promising" core? I know I didn't back then, so its no hindsight on my part...Mangini talked "process" and even begged for "faith" but it never had ANY substance since he turned around and always did the opposite of what he preached signing over the hill yes-men he could still drill for a paycheck going for as much wins as possible
NOW, our 29yo rookie QB is one of our 10 oldest players on the team...and even one of the oldest players roster has considerable upside left
Sure, none of the young guys is established..but, well that's an unfair argument since they can't be by default...that's like asking for a top College grad with some years of "established" working experience or an "experienced" virgin as a wife
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You would classify Schwartz as excellent?
Schwartz is already playing at (at least, and that's being negative and factoring in his first 2 games) league AVG RT level, even better lately imho...if you don't believe me then watch Adams of the Steelers when he NOT protected, the Roethli fumble was his 1st play in that last game where he didn't get any help, lol...in general there's some horrible RT play around the league and Schwartz is already among the better onesd imho
I was a big Schwartz fan but even I said and thought he won't be league AVG in his 1st season...what he has done and how he has progressed is as impressive as Weeden's development. Once the other high pick rook takes on the same path (and he will) this (already improved to league AVG) young Offense will take OFF....it really doesn't take too much creativity to see this
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I completely agree that we need to maintain continuity ala the Texans. That is what makes this whole situation difficult because I have grown to dislike Shurmur due to all of the reasons disgussed in various threads. The best case scenario is that Banner is not as reviled by the entire Eagles staff and/or alumni staff and we bring in someone who will be better suited to be a head coach and still maintain continuity.
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You would classify Schwartz as excellent?
Schwartz is already playing at (at least, and that's being negative and factoring in his first 2 games) league AVG RT level, even better lately imho...if you don't believe me then watch Adams of the Steelers when he NOT protected, the Roethli fumble was his 1st play in that last game where he didn't get any help, lol...in general there's some horrible RT play around the league and Schwartz is already among the better onesd imho
I was a big Schwartz fan but even I said and thought he won't be league AVG in his 1st season...what he has done and how he has progressed is as impressive as Weeden's development. Once the other high pick rook takes on the same path (and he will) this (already improved to league AVG) young Offense will take OFF....it really doesn't take too much creativity to see this
I'm replying in regards to players who appear to be developing.
Does Shurmur get credit for any of that? Or the position coach(es)? Or both?
I'm not a fan of Shurmur, but I don't hate the guy.
I do not like the way he coaches...I like the way our young players are developing. I'm quite conflicted here. I think Shurmur is simply a good offensive coach...but not a HC.
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I'm not a fan of Shurmur, but I don't hate the guy.
I do not like the way he coaches...I like the way our young players are developing. I'm quite conflicted here. I think Shurmur is simply a good offensive coach...but not a HC.
I don't hate the guy either,, actually seems like a good guy . But some of the stuff he does makes me scratch my head and I'm not close to a guru like some of you other guys on here.
But let me pose a question, are the mistakes that even I see the product of someone that just doesn't have the ability, or are they a product of a young coach making "young coach' mistakes that time in place will correct?
I honestly don't know the answer. I do know that we look at young players, we don't expect them to come out and play mistake free football until they've been around a year or two (nobody is perfect all the time). So why can't that be the same for coaches?
Just asking..
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well, through 7 games we have allowed 11 sacks.
8 of those sacks came in the 1st 3 games.
In the past 4 games:
Baltimore sacked Weeden once. They have 12 sacks on the season.
The Giants sacked Weeden Zero times. The Giants have 17 sacks on the season.
The Bengals sacked Weeden 2 times in the 2nd game. They are 2nd in the NFL with 23 sacks.
The Colts did not sack Weeden. They have 13 sacks on the season.
That's 3 sacks allowed, in 4 games, and 157 pass attempts.
That's excellent, especially given that Weeden throws down the field frequently.
Pretty selective statistics...
Schwartz has given up 3 sacks, which going into last week, put him at tied for 6th in the league for sacks allowed, which is also just higher than 25% of our sacks allowed. Right now he's giving up just shy of half a sack a game.
Now, I have no problem with that. He's a rookie, and he's learning the game. But it's not excellent.
I wouldn't even say excellent for a rookie at this point.
But I do like what I've seen from him thus far.
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I do know that we look at young players, we don't expect them to come out and play mistake free football until they've been around a year or two (nobody is perfect all the time). So why can't that be the same for coaches?
Here's my thoughts on that... It's like the guy jumping offsides on 4th and 2 when everybody knows they are going to hardcount.. or when they are kicking a FG... the guy may be a rookie, but this is a matter of self-discipline that is taught when you first walk on a football field at age 6 and its taught every year after that.. be aware of the situation.... it's THOSE types of mistakes that I have trouble taking, even from rookies.
Shurmur has made a few of those too, I know in-game decisions are based on more than I know but sometimes he just seems to miss the obvious, things that even a novice like me can look at and wonder what the heck he was thinking... I can't count the number of times we have been in a hurry up situation, spiking the ball, trying to get out of bounds, trying to get the next play off... then we run out of time and go to the locker room with 1 or 2 timeouts that we never used.
yebat' Putin
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OL "stats" are THE most useless out there...I remember reading those "sack lists" and often the best OTs where on them like Walter Jones etc...useless, as it's hard to figure out who screwed up in 50% of the sacks, and half of the othe 50% is on the QB screwing things up...they're even more useless since they don't include number of pass attempts...some OL had a bye week already and are on teams with 20-30% less PAs...also, playing on a 1-6 teams that has to pass late and faces DL that dont have to guess, opposed to a winning team who calls safer plays at the end of games
Incredibly useless "stat"...Schwartz struggled in his first 2-3 games, he gave up 1.5sacks to Mario Williams but has been incredibly good since and played at a high level for a RT. His development is similar to Weeden's....they're playing at league AVG level lately....we need TRich to figure this league out as fast asap
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While you might not like stats ..... I'm gonna throw some out there anyway .....
Through 7 games, the Browns have allowed 11 sacks, which is 7th in the NFL. We are 4th in pass attempts, at 272. The OL and Weeden have merged together in a way that allows for the OL to effectively block for Weeden, while Weeden helps them out by getting the ball out quickly on most snaps. Even the deep throws are generally out in 3 seconds. Weeden also seems to understand how to move in the pocket, sliding to escape pressure instead of losing his head and running blindly. They get better and better at working together, which is encouraging.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
I do know that we look at young players, we don't expect them to come out and play mistake free football until they've been around a year or two (nobody is perfect all the time). So why can't that be the same for coaches?
Here's my thoughts on that... It's like the guy jumping offsides on 4th and 2 when everybody knows they are going to hardcount.. or when they are kicking a FG... the guy may be a rookie, but this is a matter of self-discipline that is taught when you first walk on a football field at age 6 and its taught every year after that.. be aware of the situation.... it's THOSE types of mistakes that I have trouble taking, even from rookies.
Shurmur has made a few of those too, I know in-game decisions are based on more than I know but sometimes he just seems to miss the obvious, things that even a novice like me can look at and wonder what the heck he was thinking... I can't count the number of times we have been in a hurry up situation, spiking the ball, trying to get out of bounds, trying to get the next play off... then we run out of time and go to the locker room with 1 or 2 timeouts that we never used.
I wish there was a way to look back at the big time coaches through the years an see how they did in their first year or two of games. I'm not talking W-L records. They pretty much speak for themselves.
I'm talking about the decision making. Go for it on 4th and short, or not? call a run play when a pass play seems more obvious? that kinda stuff
Few head coaches who are now in the HOF ever went mistake free. (actually I doubt any of them did) Guys that are close are Paul Brown, George Halas, Vince Lombardi, Chuck Noll. But even they made mistakes.. Belichick will be in the HOF someday,,, we know he's not mistake free.
Anyway, when they were young, they probably made dumb calls. When do we say,, OK,, they should know better by now?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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For a rookie QB to be taking that few sacks with that many drop backs - and usually playing from behind - is nothing short of incredible.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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For a rookie QB to be taking that few sacks with that many drop backs - and usually playing from behind - is nothing short of incredible.
and, adding into it, while not throwing all that many INTs either (outside of wk1)
#gmstrong
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OL "stats" are THE most useless out there...I remember reading those "sack lists" and often the best OTs where on them like Walter Jones etc...useless, as it's hard to figure out who screwed up in 50% of the sacks, and half of the othe 50% is on the QB screwing things up...they're even more useless since they don't include number of pass attempts...some OL had a bye week already and are on teams with 20-30% less PAs...also, playing on a 1-6 teams that has to pass late and faces DL that dont have to guess, opposed to a winning team who calls safer plays at the end of games
Incredibly useless "stat"...Schwartz struggled in his first 2-3 games, he gave up 1.5sacks to Mario Williams but has been incredibly good since and played at a high level for a RT. His development is similar to Weeden's....they're playing at league AVG level lately....we need TRich to figure this league out as fast asap
Absolutely agree. Schwartz, pass blocking wise is either the 2nd or 3rd best O-Linemen on the team. And he's improved every week.
This confuses me because I thought he'd start off as a very good runblocker and a bit more of a liability against the pass. Turns out it's the opposite. He's improved big-time every week with passblocking. He's not as good as Joe Thomas was as a rookie, but he's also not Joe Thomas (who, i'm kind of nervous about playing. He's been off his game this year, makes me nervous he's injured. Will playing on the injury this year transfer over to next year?)
Anyway, I agree. PDR posting O-Line stats is ridiculous. Using stats for your argument, period, is stupid IMO. I guess I always stood behind DiamDawg with his "Stats are for losers" point. Stats are too structured and easily flawed. I watch the games, and I know what I see. If I add some stats to support my argument, sure, but it's not the basis of my argument. Schwartz wasn't very good in the first may be three weeks. The Eagles got him may be twice, I remember that guy from Michigan pulling an inside move and getting Weeden. But Trent Cole got Joe Thomas in that game too. Then I remember he had some trouble in the next two or three games, but after that he's been pretty good. He did get a false start this week, but Weeden got the TD anyway, and I know he's gotten a few on the season as well. Either way, I feel pretty good about the guy.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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He is a 1st time HC,but he didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.He's been around the NFL for years and years.
His problem,IMO,is he trying to wear too many hats.Chilly is an OC in name only.Chilly should be devising the game plan and calling the plays,with an assist from the HC,not the other way around.That would free up the game day thinking and allow for forethought and better tactical decisions.
Having said that,I don't believe that's going to happen.Shurmur has too much pride.He'll go down with the sinking ship,and that's too bad.He may have grown into a good HC.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Everyone who has ever stepped into a new job should recognize that there is a difference between seeing other people do things, and doing them yourself on the spot when the occasion arises. There's a learning curve for everyone, in everything.
That said, I can completely agree with the notion that trying to be OC is likely interfering with being the HC - being focused in the moment, thinking about what the next play should be instead of thinking about the current game situation and thinking about what the next move should be.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
His problem,IMO,is he trying to wear too many hats.Chilly is an OC in name only
The only task that Chilly is not doing that is normally a OC task is game day playcalling.
I think the year before he was taking on too much and with the lack of prep time (due to the lockout) I think it really did him in.
I do agree however that Chilly should be calling the plays.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Everyone who has ever stepped into a new job should recognize that there is a difference between seeing other people do things, and doing them yourself on the spot when the occasion arises. There's a learning curve for everyone, in everything.
That said, I can completely agree with the notion that trying to be OC is likely interfering with being the HC - being focused in the moment, thinking about what the next play should be instead of thinking about the current game situation and thinking about what the next move should be.
Good point on doing something with someone more experienced is much different then doing it alone. In the Trades a person could work for years before they are ready to go out on their own and even then I see them stuggle their first couple times.
They've done it every day, day after day, but never had to actually set the job up, direct people under them, and see the job to completion and done correctly.
I've also seen them fail because they feel its all on them and wont let anyone do anything execpt the meaningless tasks.
Right now (to me) Shurmur seems to be caught in the middle somewhere.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
Quote:
His problem,IMO,is he trying to wear too many hats.Chilly is an OC in name only
The only task that Chilly is not doing that is normally a OC task is game day playcalling.
I think the year before he was taking on too much and with the lack of prep time (due to the lockout) I think it really did him in.
I do agree however that Chilly should be calling the plays.
Childress was run off of playcalling duties in Minnesota... repeatedly called out in the media by his players for poor playcalling. That's probably why Shurmur wanted him... so he could keep calling plays.
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I'm not going to get too involved with this because it's a waste of what little energy I have,but one of the primary functions of the OC,at any level of football,is to put in the O game plan.And the other would be calling plays that fit into that game plan.
If the play caller is not intimately involved with the game plan,this is how we attack that,this is what they will do to that formation and we will counter with this,then you would do just as well pulling plays out of a hat.
If the HC is spending his time game planning and putting play lists together,then he doesn't have the time to spend on the many other things that need to be addressed.And that team is going to look ill prepared most of the time.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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