DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How Many Wins Will it Take to Save Shurmur's Job?

We're 1-5, and 1-12 in the last 13. That's the reality right now. We can say it's a different team and that we're about to turn the corner and that very well may be the case, but J & J are looking at the team right now, not in the future. Today, their thinking is evidently something like, "He's a really nice guy, but this nice guy isn't getting it done. We need a championship caliber head coach."

But we are 1-5, not 0-6. The team hasn't quit and we actually may be about to turn the corner. We have Haden back, Brown played well last week, Rubin is back, for the first time in a long time LB's are a strength not a weakness, and our D-line is really coming on strong. Of key importance, we're winning the turnover battle. Weeden is improving every week, the WR corps (including TEs) is starting to produce, the O-line is jelling and has performed well recently, and we do have a decent running game. Most importantly, we're putting points on the board. The past week, we saw for the first time excellent production in all three phases, and that has to continue if we are going to continue to win.

I am no a Shurmur fan, my big knock on him is his (evidently) complete lack of game planning, and his inability to make half time adjustments. You can add to that his questionable play calling at key moments, his inability to manage the clock at the end of the half and end of the game, and his lack of killer instinct.

Do I want to see him fired? Not today. Can he take us to the promised land? I don't know, but if he does, I'll love him forever. It appears that he's a decent teacher, and it's apparent that he has the team working hard for him. If that can translate into wins, perhaps with the help of Dick & Chilly, he can grow and improve on his other responsibilities.

I think it's fair to say that most of us don't want to go through another rebuild, don't want to see the team blown up, don't want to see Heckert fired. PROVIDED, that the wins come, and that it can be proven in the W-L column that we are on the right track, that Weeden is the QB of the "future", and that our team will get better by allowing Heckert to add a few pieces this off season on offense and defense, (CB, DE, S, LB, & WR) and on into the future.

At this point I think Heckert has a better chance of sticking than Shurmur does, but if Shurmur is fired, you can practically bet that Chilly & Jauron are gone too, and if Shurmur doesn't win enough games to keep his job, it's highly probable that Heckert will find himself drafting for another team next year. (Personally, I think if that happens, it will be the newest regime's first MAJOR mistake.) So in my mind, it's likely that Shurmur and the team are playing for not just Shurmur's job, but for Heckert's, Chilly's, Jauron's and possibly even Weeden's as well. (A new HC will likely clean house, and J & J may want a young QB and their own GM.)

So, with so much on the line, (possibly the immediate future of the franchise, 3-5 years,) how many wins will it take for Shurmur to keep his job, and which games will those be?

Remaining schedule and my predictions:

@Colts - W
Chargers - W
Ravens - W
@Cowboys - L
Steelers - W
@Raiders - W
Chiefs - W
Redskins - L
@Broncos - L
@Steelers - W

This would put us at 8-8. Is that enough to get everyone another year? Is 7-9, 6-10? Personally, I don't believe 5-11 would be.

Thoughts?

SHOULD be 8-8
Probably would save his job at 6-10 or 7-9.

I think more than this record will indicate is how we play in those wins or losses. 1-2 blowouts would seal his fate no matter what the record imo.

He's going to have to get this team winning or there is no way he gets another year.

I think that we need 7 wins, plus a much more effective looking team, in order to see Shyurmur back nest year.

If the team looks like one of those teams ready to make a huge step forward next year, then I think that he stays.

Luckily for him, I think that we'll wind up with 6-8 wins.

My money is on the head shot-callers already compiling lists. For Shurmur to save his job, the answer to the question of how many wins will it take to do that is:

Too many.

He's going to have to blow away the executives. He's not been a great coach leading bad players. He's been a developmental coach leading bad players while making mistakes along the way. With a regime change, he's got to really show he's a difference maker. That means he's going to have to do the unexpected, and that means he's going to have to have a winning record over the remaining games.

I think playoffs is the ONLY way he saves his job.

Come on, we all read or heard the pressers. These guys promised results in a short period of time.

Shurmur and Heckert are gone unless we make the playoffs.

They will not hitch their wagons and reps to people they didn't choose.

LIST the "bad" players Toad, I want names...with Great, Good, above AVG, AVG, below AVG, bad, terrible as lables compared to the rest of the starters in the league (an AVG G is 30th-34th best G out of 64 starting Gs, a good RB is 10th best out of 32 etc, a bad WR is 50th out of 64 starting WRs etc)

Since you think we have more BAD players starting than good ones, stick your neck out for once and tell us who they are

Waiting...

quality over quantity.

if we are competitive in all our games and we go 3-3 in the division, then he's got a good shot if Haslam/Banner do not already have something in store for the team (which they very well may)

I'll just answer for him...

It depends on what kind of BAD you are talking about. There's two discussions in one discussion here. We are 1-5 and that's BAD. Holgrem is BAD. RG3 is good. Holmgren is bad for not getting RG3. Now did we have options? YES, we did. I was available to play RDE. Would I have been better? That's not the point. The point is Rishuz was also available. Now if you're talking about BAD, we are BAD. The record is BAD. We have no talent so we are BAD.

Does that answer your question?

This next game will tell the story. If the players step up and get a win here then I think we could get on a roll. If they lose this next game I think things will unravel very fast.
I really dont see how Shurmur stays. They will as you mentioned want to be able to say these are our guys. I hope Heckert stays too.

Here is how i can see this playing out

Remaining schedule and my predictions with a colts win:

@Colts - W
Chargers - W
Ravens - L
@Cowboys - L
Steelers - W
@Raiders - W
Chiefs - W
Redskins - L
@Broncos - L
@Steelers - L

Puts us at 6-10 which is actually 1 game better then I thought we would be. I also think we have a chance to win the Ravens Cowboys and Skins games but I had to put down what I think will happen not what could. If we took 2 of those 3 then a much more promising 8-8.

Now if we lose to the Colts

Remaining schedule and my predictions:

@Colts - L
Chargers - L
Ravens - L
@Cowboys - L
Steelers - W - we've been playing them tough at home lately
@Raiders - L
Chiefs - W
Redskins - L
@Broncos - L
@Steelers - L both teams have packed it in at this point. We just have more packing to do.

3-13 and we all know what that means. Alot more

More than one.

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This next game will tell the story. If the players step up and get a win here then I think we could get on a roll. If they lose this next game I think things will unravel very fast.

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The upcoming game is a very winnable game. If we don't win it, then it all may be moot anyway. You have to win the games you're expected to win and if Shurmur & Co. can't pull this one out coming off a win, I think he basically seals their fate.

How does Shurmur save his job?

Make the playoffs.

Playoff hunt is wide open this year. Other teams have rallied from bigger deficits. To hell with starting 0-5.

Given the stellar performance of the AFC, do you think 7-9 or 8-8 will get us to the playoffs?

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It's amazing how big tomorrow is. It is only one game, but this thing keeps rolling if they win. If they lose, there are absolutely no doubts he's gone.

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I honestly wonder how heavily this notion weighs on them.

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that means he's going to have to have a winning record over the remaining games.

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So you're down at 7-9?

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It should, and maybe that will help them maintain focus, and to have urgency.

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I think we saw this for the first time against Cincy. And I think the pending new ownership had something to do with it. As you allude, they have to maintain it and they have to play three-phase football or it's basically over for them. The hot seat doesn't get much hotter.

He needs 7 more wins to even CONSIDER saving his job.

From what I have seen and heard so far I don't think saving his job has anything to do with wins or losses.

The only thing that matters is what Joe Banner thinks.

I believe that if he hasn't got his mind made up already he will by the bye week.

I hope Shurmur stays because if he doesn't then you know damn well these guys won't be able to resist blowing things up. Again. And I won't be sticking around to watch that saga unfold again. Too old and too tired to watch that crap all over again.

At 7-9, I think it would be very difficult to say that this team is not on the right track with a rookie QB and so many rookies and second year players starting.

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I don't think saving his job has anything to do with wins or losses.

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Seriously, Otto? I have a hard time believing you believe that. Shurmur has to win games to save his job, because if he doesn't, if we go 1-15, 2-14, 3-13, 4-12, or 5-11, you can practically guarantee that black Monday will be his final day.

As I said, I think Banner already has his mind made up. I could be wrong, God knows that's happened plenty of times before. But I think his fate is already sealed.

If I was forced to bet, I'd bet that Shurmur is gone, Heckert stays (with a short leash and only if he can't get a better job someplace else. I don't think he and Banner get along - no matter what they both say). I'd also bet that Banner goes after an up and coming coach like Jay Gruden to make HIS new head coach. That would mean an all new staff and probably an all new team.

If Heckert stays and most of the staff remains intact we could be OK. If not, it's gonna be 1999 all over again. And that would be OK if it meant I got to be 13 years younger as well. But I won't be. And I'm not blowing another 10 years of ticket buying and swearing at my TV waiting for us to get good.

Only time will tell.

6-10 or 7-9 and being competitive in every game

I don't see us winning 7 games in the next 10. Winning 4 or 5 feels more reasonable but there's still reasonable doubt to me that we could win that many games down the stretch. Its these coming weeks that will spell out Shurmur's future, either in bland or spectacular fashion. I think with the body of work we've seen thus far, I have little confidence in Shurmur to bring this team to the level it will need to play at for him to keep his job. I'd love to see the team and Shurmur prove me wrong.

Regardless of how many wins the Browns compile over the rest of the season, if the Browns keep a coach who; when behind, has the ball and over 1/2 a minute left on the clock, desides to pack it in and go to the locker room down at the half, without even a hint that they will make an attempt at a hail mary play or any other play for that matter, HE NEEDS TO GO PERIOD!!!!

The Browns don't need a loser coach with a LOSER mentality. Get rid of this @#$%^&*(()@!!!

Shurmur is done

I consider myself pretty level headed and optimistic about this team.

But Shurmur must go. The NFL rewards offensive aggression 9/10 times and this guy is punting on 4th and 1? He doesn't even attempt 2 minute drills.

This team could have easily put up 30 points today with a more aggressive playcaller.

You may be right. Absolutely puzzled. We needed to be more aggressive on the playcalling side and on defense. Putrid performance today. Beyond disgusting.

Pictures of Haslams tirade are up on the Post Game Thoughts thread!

I posted this in the post game which needs to be stated here to anybody who thinks that keeping this staff is better for the franchise.

When you finish with one of the worst records in the league, how much of a setback can you get from last place?

I was really hoping we were building on something from last week.

It was all undone with the loss today. Simply inexcusable to lose to the Colts if we are a team on the upswing.

This is on the staff.

Cya.

I think Hanner will act swiftly.

No doubt they are becoming fans of Weeden just like the rest of the world.

They know his shelf life isn't as long as others.

They recognize this.

I hate losing games in ANY fashion.. but the ones you think you should win.. they really hurt..

Shurmur's job is as good as gone now..

Weeds is gonna have to keep this offense motivated.