Whoa, whoa, whoa...you might want to do some research and math about the bailout before you go spouting off.
The bank bailouts had a cost around $200-$300 billion. The auto bailouts had a cost of $85 billion, not counting the money we've recouped.
That adds up to less than 10% of the deficit Obama has run up (actually it's more like $4.5 trillion). Where did the other 90+% come from?
My point was a simple one and you yourself actually helped point out that fact. If you're looking for a breakdown of stimulas spending this should do..........
And my point was that the bailouts did not cause the $4 trillion deficit like you claimed. So you missed that point as well. Way to shift attention to the stimulus though...
As far as the stimulus and creating jobs: it was a failure, plain and simple. Why would you want to keep spending money on projects that have shown they don't help unemployment or the economy? Government projects have to go through numerous hurdles just to get permitted, and they're really just a band-aid...they don't fix anything. Even President Obama has admitted it was a failure:
As a congressman, would you want to keep spending money on programs that don't work and don't really fix anything? Or would you just keep blindly pushing ahead?
Quote: And considering Romneys policies pretty much mirrored Bush policies, thinking it wouldn't have gotten even worse under his platform are no less delusional....
And where did I say that I thought that? Don't think I live in a delusional world clouded by by the dogma of a political party just because you do.
Quote: When is the Obama promise for NEW Ohio auto industry jobs going to happen, he has had 4 years and now 8, and not one new plant. Lets ask the current plant workers of Moraine Ohio...oh yeah, wait..
Yet since June 2009, Ohio has added 11,300 new auto industry jobs, while Michigan has added 35,200 and Indiana has added 19,800, said DrivingGrowth.org, citing information from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Quote: My point was a simple one and you yourself actually helped point out that fact. If you're looking for a breakdown of stimulas spending this should do..........
And my point was that the bailouts did not cause the $4 trillion deficit like you claimed. So you missed that point as well. Way to shift attention to the stimulus though...
I was originaly responding to YTown who said the deficit would be well over 20 trillion by the end of Obamas term. Your math even points out that is most likely not true.
The bailout was and is a part of that deficit to the tune of 1 trillion dollars. I did not say that was the entire 4 trillion, but it is 25%. As I said in the past, everyone on the other side of the aisle wished to give Bush a pass due to the tech. stock bubble bursting and yet wish to point the finger at Obama for deficits.
People can't have it both ways.
Quote: Don't think I live in a delusional world clouded by by the dogma of a political party just because you do.
Neither do I. I vote for what I feel is the lesser of the two evils and move on. When a man stands up and claims he is for a strong middle class after he stood beside our Ohio Gov. and supported stopping collective bargaining rights for our police, firefighters, teachers and nurses? I'll never support him after being a first hand witness to it.
YeÅ there is a constant attack from one side on here that is sickening......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Thank you for the information, maybe 2014 will get people to see what they voted for, but I doubt it. My wife was right , where she works you can see it everyday. It has come to fruition that in America the "Takers" now out number the "Makers" and voting yourself money is the 90% of what "Takers" will vote for.
Democrat are Santa Clause and Republicans are Bill Collectors. I can't see how our side will win again, at least not until the US is financially bankrupt. (many say in under 10 years) The Bad news, history repeats, so hello to the French Revolution in America (Mass Killings) or the rise of a Hitler/Pol Pot/Mao type leader (mass Killings) Might not happen, and we have something like the 1974 Portuguese bloodless revolution. How we come out the other side the same or better is unlikely.
So the only question is will Democrats stop spending, printing and monetizing our own debt...why would they it gets them elected?
Yeah, I took our son to the ER once (we were advised by the nurseline to do so... he has a breathing issue which sounds bad over the phone) and a nurse we saw just that time brought in a toy to leave... I told her we didn't need it (didn't want it either.. it looked dirty) but she left it anyway. I wonder how much it cost for them to leave that in the room with us.
Quote: When is the Obama promise for NEW Ohio auto industry jobs going to happen, he has had 4 years and now 8, and not one new plant. Lets ask the current plant workers of Moraine Ohio...oh yeah, wait..
Yet since June 2009, Ohio has added 11,300 new auto industry jobs, while Michigan has added 35,200 and Indiana has added 19,800, said DrivingGrowth.org, citing information from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
But you are right to one degree, you can't fix problems that took decades to create in just a few short years.
Only God could do that. And Romney isn't God either.......
DrivingGrowth.org is a project of the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) , the National Wildlife Federation (NWF) endorsed obama , and the League of Conservation Voters (LCV) endorsed obama . Together, we represent millions of Americans who support sustainable transportation, clean cars and good-paying manufacturing jobs.
Our hats are off to the companies, workers, unions, elected and community leaders whose are driving economic and jobs growth through a green transformation of the U.S. auto industry.
Quote: My point was a simple one and you yourself actually helped point out that fact. If you're looking for a breakdown of stimulas spending this should do..........
And my point was that the bailouts did not cause the $4 trillion deficit like you claimed. So you missed that point as well. Way to shift attention to the stimulus though...
I was originaly responding to YTown who said the deficit would be well over 20 trillion by the end of Obamas term. Your math even points out that is most likely not true.
The bailout was and is a part of that deficit to the tune of 1 trillion dollars. I did not say that was the entire 4 trillion, but it is 25%. As I said in the past, everyone on the other side of the aisle wished to give Bush a pass due to the tech. stock bubble bursting and yet wish to point the finger at Obama hor deficits.
People can't have it both ways.
Quote: Don't think I live in a delusional world clouded by by the dogma of a political party just because you do.
Neither do I. I vote for what I feel is the lesser of the two evils and move on. When a man stands up and claims he is for a strong middle class after he stood beside our Ohio Gov. and supported stopping collective bargaining rights for our police, firefighters, teachers and nurses? I'll never support him after being a first hand witness to it.
Yet there is a constant attack from one side on here that is sickening......
If I said that the deficit would be over $20 trillion, I meant national debt. (the actual reported debt)
We are running trillion dollar deficits every year as a rule, and the Senate won't even take up a budget. How the hell do you bring down the deficit if the Senate won't even debate a budget? Answer: You don't.
By the way, when did the deficits start to really expand under Bush? What year? What happened in that year? Was there a change in control of Congress the previous year? Hmm .......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I was originaly responding to YTown who said the deficit would be well over 20 trillion by the end of Obamas term. Your math even points out that is most likely not true
The deficit will probably bee more then 20 trillion. The Affordable Care Act will most likely cost way way way more then they projected...it may cost 10 times more then they projected. Its also fact that in the states that implemented the exchanges insurance prices have gone up from what they were before the exchanges were started...and just think...soon you will be mandated to have insurance or will be forced to pay a fine (higher taxes for individuals that don't have a government approved plan)
Quote: Neither do I. I vote for what I feel is the lesser of the two evils and move on. When a man stands up and claims he is for a strong middle class after he stood beside our Ohio Gov. and supported stopping collective bargaining rights for our police, firefighters, teachers and nurses? I'll never support him after being a first hand witness to it.
Yet there is a constant attack from one side on here that is sickening......
you have got to be kidding me. I seen it first hand too, I have family members that are part of that. Thr big part you don't seem to understand is ITS NOT FEASIBLE to continue those plans. The States are nearly bankrupt..they can't afford to pay these peoples:
1. retirement plans 2. healthcare 3. non-competitive wages (in comparison with the private sector)
its not sustainable. these people are being paid with tax money. Tax money is supposed to be used for the public benefit...you know...paving roads, building infrastructure, preserving national parks, that kind of stuff. look im not saying we should slash all these state workers and police officers, but when so many people are out of work and state tax revenues are down....what do you want them to do?
furthermore, its a big red flag that the government has so many employees....it screams socialism when a large part of your workforce is government employees...they can't hire everyone.....the left's hard stance on these issues will cost them dearly in the future because their failure to negotiate in good faith is not only going to cost them their jobs, but its going to cost them their retirement too when the govt goes completely bankrupt.
Quote: Neither do I. I vote for what I feel is the lesser of the two evils and move on. When a man stands up and claims he is for a strong middle class after he stood beside our Ohio Gov. and supported stopping collective bargaining rights for our police, firefighters, teachers and nurses? I'll never support him after being a first hand witness to it.
Yet there is a constant attack from one side on here that is sickening......
He does and did support a strong middle class....what you fail to understand is he wants a strong middle class economy that will have good solid sustainable middle class jobs that are viable long term that doesn't rely on working for the stinking state.
Let me toss out some quick facts for you:
1. the last 4 years, our so called President has added 3.5 million woman to food stamps....yup he really cares about the American woman doesn't he? Not to mention the 1.5 million women who lost their jobs in the workforce that will most likely join the food stamp crowd soon...yup he cares about women allright.
2. where are all of his "shovel ready jobs" he promised? remember that huge stimulus package he passed...I don't see any jobs....you do know the real Unemployment rate is around 15-17%...Not only are his Unemployment numbers the worst in history, but he also has the worst job approval rating in the history of this country...he surpassed Herbert Hoover (which I never thought would be possible)....at least the American people in the 1920's/30's had enough sense to throw Hoover out after he wrecked the economy...can't say that about this President....Bush may have had a role in the economy going down, but Obama just sped us right into a prolong depression and did nothing to fix things.
3. Lets blame George Bush right? Yes Bush made mistakes, I hated the guy..but what exactly has Obama done to fix things in the 4 years of his first term? I'll tell you....nothing....When Bush left Office...gasoline was around a 1.77 a gallon..give or take a few cents....now gasoline is 3.50 give or take a few cents...in some places its close to 4 dollars....you call that progress?
4. Everyone here tries to say the auto bailout was a good thing....unbelievable....everyone thinks its a good thing for a government takeover of a private industry....The government should not have bailed them out....GM should have done what they needed to do to be viable, and took that plan to a private bank and gotten a loan....and then paid that loan off....
(which trust me...a bank would have loaned them the money as long as they had a solid reorganization plan) government buyouts or big business is not good at all...I don't care how you try to paint it.
I am not going to go into the coal industry...but anyone with any common sense just by looking at the WV vote, and the 71 Ohio counties that voted for Romney tell you that Obama has done nothing but try to destroy the coal industry....mines have been shut down because of him...power plants shut down because of his policies....only 16 counties in Ohio voted blue compared to the other 71 that voted red out of 88 counties should tell people something.
However at this point...I don't really care...I know a big depression is coming on the horizon....Obama's idea of taxing rich people more because they don't "pay their fair share" will just mean these people won't invest and won't create any jobs...and the recession will contune to fuel and get worse...all the while 600 billion in new taxes is looming for Jan and the markets are tanking right now at the prospects (along with Europe mind you), but that 600 billion in new taxes, and a 5% increase in the capital gains tax is hurting the market big time...that will go right down to the economy....
not to mention small businesses and other companies are going to begin sheeding jobs come Jan....small businesses to get below the requirements for ACA, and corporations will cut enough jobs to offset the cost difference...and Unemployment will continue at an all time high..and more and more people will be put out of work.
its a disgrace....this country choose the man who promised to give them the most entitlements insteadof the man who promised a better future by creating jobs so these young college kids would actually be able to "find a job" when they graduate...instead now..many of them will join the 50% of college students who do graduate that can't find a job....theres your hope, change, and going forward...
Quote: i stood beside our Ohio Gov. and supported stopping collective bargaining rights for our police, firefighters, teachers and nurses? I'll never support him after being a first hand witness to it.
Question: My son is a nurse, in Columbus. He is employed by Ohio Health.....I think that is the name. How does he become a member of some collective bargaining group?
He is currently not a member of some such "collective bargaining" thing. I'm sure it would help him. He'd have to pay some dues, right? But he'd be almost guaranteed to not be fired, he'd be able to work 30 years and retire with a pension and health care.
So, at age 52, if he minds his money - he could be done working for the rest of his life, and someone else would be paying him to not work...............I think that would be awesome for him.
I also KNOW that is not sustainable. Ain't gonna happen. Where's the money come from, pit? For someone to put in a small percentage of their income - 2%? 5%? For 30 years, and then get a guaranteed pension, AND health care for the next 30 to 40 years?
Come on man - no one is "entitled" unless they live, financially, in a manner that will take care of them if and when they can retire.
Quote: The Bad news, history repeats, so hello to the French Revolution in America (Mass Killings) or the rise of a Hitler/Pol Pot/Mao type leader (mass Killings) Might not happen, and we have something like the 1974 Portuguese bloodless revolution.
I've seen variations of this same fear mongering on here more than once. I find it laughable at best.
Another conservative chestnut is the one that goes something like, "we're all doomed because the "Takers" won the election not the "Makers". Again, laughable especially when Romney's past is taken into consideration.
I think that maybe instead of running around like Chicken Little's and crying about the how the sky is falling perhaps our energy would be better spent in trying to get our elected officials to work for the good of the country instead of the good of their own reelection campaigns. And that gate swings both ways.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
I honestly believe there was a conspiracy to destroy and dismantal the Obama presidency before he had a chance to do anything..
For my money, Dems may have shut out Reps, but truth be told, Reps kept coming back with proposals that weren't really proposals at all,, just words on a page.
Again, for me, it comes down to this, they don't work for us, none of them. They work for those that stuff their wallets with the cash..
we really don't exist. We really don't matter at all to them, we're just a bunch of pawns.
They (I mean our politicans, although I doubt you could actually call them ours) dont' want us to unite. There is no benefit in that. They want us at each others throats.
It's the old "United we stand, divided we fall" theory. Look around, read this board,, it's working.. we're at each others throats..
Divided, they can control us by pitting us against each other, united, they don't stand a chance.
And they know it.
Damn it, we' re all americans, I get we may have differences of opinion, but damn it, they should work for us,, not for special interests.. and to me, it's very clear they do.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
My wife was right , where she works you can see it everyday. It has come to fruition that in America the "Takers" now out number the "Makers" and voting yourself money is the 90% of what "Takers" will vote for.
Sorry, but it took more than 47% and even at that, many of those work, they just don't make enough to suit the GOP.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: [Question: My son is a nurse, in Columbus. He is employed by Ohio Health.....I think that is the name. How does he become a member of some collective bargaining group?
He is currently not a member of some such "collective bargaining" thing. I'm sure it would help him. He'd have to pay some dues, right? But he'd be almost guaranteed to not be fired, he'd be able to work 30 years and retire with a pension and health care.
Big difference in someone not being able to fire you on a whim and not being able to fire you. I don't know who he works for. I do know nurses it would have effected though. Maybe he should look into that and try to change his job to better his income and benifits?
Quote: So, at age 52, if he minds his money - he could be done working for the rest of his life, and someone else would be paying him to not work...............I think that would be awesome for him.
I would think so.
Quote: I also KNOW that is not sustainable. Ain't gonna happen. Where's the money come from, pit? For someone to put in a small percentage of their income - 2%? 5%? For 30 years, and then get a guaranteed pension, AND health care for the next 30 to 40 years?
Then maybe, just maybe states, auto manufactureres and all the others who joined into these agreements shouldn't have done so to begin with. Maybe, maybe they should be expected to honor their word rather than renege on their deals? Or should they just be able to say "So sorry, our bad, deal is off" to american families and workers?
Quote: Come on man - no one is "entitled" unless they live, financially, in a manner that will take care of them if and when they can retire.
They are only entitled to what they were promised and paid into. I find it odd how people hold certain entities to their word, yet excuse others from it. But you'll have that from time to rime.
The auto industry seems to be making quite a comeback and increased production, sales and hires these days. But of course rhat can never happen under your theory.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
As long as one side feels that middle America should continue to go backwards unless they have a college degree, you'll have this exact same problem.
Then, when you combine that with that same side calling for cutbacks on student loans to help insure that families without the money to "loan it to their kids" don't have an equal shot at a college degree, it appears that one side wants two Americas. The haves and the have nots.
If our nation does not invest highly in education going forward, our nations future is lost. People need to start thinking about that. Without more college graduates our nations future is gone.
We should all be hoping and working towards prosperity for all instead of making excuses why that simply can't happen.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Obama said to the Republicans when they brought ideas to him about the healthcare law: "Elections have consequences, and I won". He had no intention of negotiating with then. He was too busy having to negotiate with other Democrats.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Haha. You and Daman absolutely nailed it. I'd just like to add that the arsonist is rubbing his hands together and laughing. The arsonist of course collectively being our elected dem and repub officials.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
You may wish to look closer yet once again. This is an "op/ed" not a news story. In case you're confused? That means "opinion/editorial".
I stayed out of the political arena on this board right up until election time and there is a reason.
Because people see things 100% one way and nothing, absolutly nothing will disuade them. They listen to talk radio and or FOX News and consider the entire "sky is falling" as some indication of the truth/be all end all.
As we saw with the outcome of this election, when you look at their predictions, the fact they totally ignored any and every poll that disagreed with them...... How they attempted to discredit every poll that disagreed with them..... How they were so shocked when they lost....
They are no less fabricators of the news than MSNBC is only in the opposite direction. People from both sides need to wake up and figure outh that these news organizations are fed by ratings and cater to what people want to hear. They are no more concerned with the truth than people who wish only to believe what they want to believe and close their minds to anything and everything else.
Posters who have been here for a long time know that I used to debate in these topics all the time on a regular basis. I no longer do that. The post I'm responding to is a prime example. Someone trying to use an op/ed as some basis of fact just to bolster a point and make the other side look bad.
This topic and these general type topics are exactly what's wrong with our country. We have news organizations and talk radio giving two polar opposites of what the truth is and nobody can quite seem to figure out that neither are honest and non-bias.
This nation thrived by compromise. By each extreme being forced to conceed to some middle ground. What we have now is total grid lock and if people can't begin to see that it's both sides that are wrong and begin to force each side to compromise and move forward with things, we all lose.
There is no "I'm right and you're wrong". That kind of thinking by both parties has gotten us exactly where we are today. Politicians who say "my way or the highway" are just wrong and I don't care which party they belong to. People who promote that mentality promote the demise of our nation.
Once again I will leave the political forums as I have in the past. Once again I have seen nobody suggest or consider compromise to be a solution on political matters. Once again I see that most see political avenues as a way to destroy the thinking and progress of either side.
We have seen everyone predict where we are leading. What the results will be. Yet nobody seems to suggest we can help stop this by the two parties working together in the art of compromise to help stop it.
You can use my posts here as an example too. I don't agree with Obama nearly as much as I have professed in these posts. I simply wished to see how many, if anybody would even hint at compromise being a part of a solution.
To clear things up, here's a little of what I do believe.....
I do not believe in free trade and the global economy. I am far more of an isolationist. We can not compete with slave labor and unfair global labor practices and keep our people working.
I believe in strict immigration enforcement. We can't give away millions of jobs to people whose first act upon entering our country was a crime while we have 8% unemployment. I see Arizona as a prime example of what our immigration laws should shoot for.
I do beleieve in a strong middle class and unions. The principal reason I believe in this is a very simple one. You have to have enough people with enoughj disposable income to feed an economy. The more we shrink the middle class, the less people we have who can afford to buy homes, new cars and goods which help our economy thrive.
I don't believe in increasing military spending. We are ending two wars and while cutting that budget I do not believe to be sound, the money you have saved fighting these two wars can be spendt building up a peace time military. The math of increased spending when two wars have ended? The math doesn't add up there.
I'm not a proponent of Obamacare. It is too little too late. It does not truely address tort reform, capping malpractice lawsuits, allow government to force pharacutical companies into competative bidding for programs such as medicare and medicaid. The current system where healthcare costs rise by 131% in a decade and promoting that system continue in its current form is moronic.
I am oposed to nation building. If someone is your enemy and you wish to destroy them, destroy them and let it be. Don't rebuild it so when you leave a rogue, terrorist regime can take over and use everything you build as a weapon back against you.
So am I a conservative? Certainly not. Am I a liberal? Certainly not. But there is nobody to represent me. There is no moderation. It's one extreme or the other with no middle ground. It will be the death of our nation and everyone with the "my way or the highway" attitude will have contributed to it.
Carry on and enjoy freaking out every time an election doesn't go exactly the way you want it to. Consider it the end of the world as you know it. What a wonderful way to live your life.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
, where she works you can see it everyday. It has come to fruition that in America the "Takers" now out number the "Makers" and voting yourself money is the 90% of what "Takers" will vote for.
Answer: You don't. 
