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With half the 2012 season finished, Sporting News' network of NFL correspondents asked 103 players from 27 teams everything you want to know about this year in our annual midseason players poll. As always in our midseason poll, players were not allowed to name their teammates or head coach for any of their answers. Which is the worst organization in the NFL? Cleveland Browns 20 Jacksonville Jaguars 19 Oakland Raiders 19 Buffalo Bills 9 Cincinnati Bengals 7 Kansas City Chiefs 5 New York Jets 5 Carolina Panthers 3 Dallas Cowboys 2 Miami Dolphins 2 St. Louis Rams 2 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2 Four teams received one vote “Cleveland Browns They don’t give anybody a chance. When I was growing up, they were getting rid of quarterbacks every two years. Coaches, too. You can’t do that. Most of the time when I was growing up, after the Browns came back in 1999, they were a sorry team. Under old management, they never gave those guys a chance. They let the fans dictate too much what was going on. I don’t know how it is now since I became a Jaguar (in 2011), but when I followed them, one bad game and they’d want to bench the quarterback. Cleveland is my city and my heart. It has the most loyal fans and a very rich history. I hope they can get back to winning.” — Jaguars wide receiver Cecil Shorts, a native of Cleveland “Oakland Raiders. Everybody says it’s a black hole. They say you go out there and your career might be over.” — AFC defensive player “Jacksonville Jaguars. They’ve got the tarp over the seats, don’t they? It’s just not working down there. They need to bring in (Tim) Tebow or something to get people excited, but the NFL hasn’t worked there.” — AFC defensive player web page
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Legend
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Losing
Player turnover is crazy high
Firing coaches constantly
New GM every other year
Constant rebuilding mode
I'm not surprised.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Legend
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Cecil is spot on. Everybody wants to run everyone out of town if they aren't an all-star overnight ... and then wonder why everyone looks like they've barely seen the Playbook before. 
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Quote:
Cecil is spot on. Everybody wants to run everyone out of town if they aren't an all-star overnight ... and then wonder why everyone looks like they've barely seen the Playbook before.
Palmer was never going to work here. There was a reason noone wanted to be our first coach.
Butch LEFT in his 4th season. Had the most success here IMO.
Romeo got 4 years and I swear the best defense we had was the first year when no one we had was supposed to "fit" the defense. The more "3-4" guys we got the worse our defense seemed to get. Had one good lightning in a bottle year. Proven not to be a great HC.
Mangini was brought in before a GM which doomed us from the start. He had too much control. Then didn't mesh with Holmgren. Was here 2 years.
Shurmur has had two years. Has shown a propensity for making mistakes rookie coaches don't make.
Who EXACTLY should we of given more time to?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Butch Davis should have had more time. He undid himself by forcing out the GM though. If he could have had a good GM that he could work with I think we would have been alright.
I also liked mangini, again if a strong GM would have been in place.
Now I feel like we have that GM, but our coach blows..bad...
#gmstrong
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I'm not talking about JUST the headcoaches. There were quite a few sacraficial lambs along the way ... mainly coordinators and quarterbacks. I seem to remember Tim Couch talking about how he had to learn his 3rd offense in 4 years because of the head-coach/coordinator carousel, and it seems like another quarterback made a similar comment. I mean have we ever have a Coach/OC/QB combo that's lasted more than 2 years since 1999? The longest I can think of is Romeo/Chud/Anderson ... and even that's less than 2 years, plus people were calling for Quinn to start almost immediately during that tenure.
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Big deal. 20 out of 103 players picked the Browns. What a stretch. 83 didn't. Who cares about these polls? Worst organization? Right now, there is no organization, only an organization in transition. I wonder how many of those players actually worked for the franchise. Odds are, none of them know WTF they're talking about. Give a guy a couple million bucks and suddenly his unfounded and baseless opinion is supposed to mean something. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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And the reason I say two years ... is because that's the kind of continuity you need. We throw our QB into a new offense immediately, and expect instant results. Then call for heads when we don't get Peyton Manning-like performances.
Look at some of the better QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years behind Farve while learning Mike McCarthy's offense for 2 years. He moved to a starting role, and was successful.
Drew Brees sat the majority of his first year too. Started under a new head coach in 2002, and was actually pretty ineffective. He got sent to the bench halfway through 2003, and didn't actually start to break out until 2004 ... his third year in Marty's system.
Even Tom Brady spent a year and a few games on the bench at New England, learning Belicheck's system until he broke out in as the starter in 2001.
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the only coach or FO person who has gone on to greater success after the Browns is Bruce Arians.
Chudzinski has to prove himself (great last year, yes).
who else?
#gmstrong
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Then call for heads when we don't get Peyton Manning-like performances.
I'd settle for Cooper Manning.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Not sure the league follows that model anymore. How many years ago were Brees, Manning and Brady rookies?
Right or wrong it isn't just the Browns doing this.
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the only coach or FO person who has gone on to greater success after the Browns is Bruce Arians.
Chudzinski has to prove himself (great last year, yes).
who else?
Yeah continuity with the wrong people wouldn't have changed anything.
Hopefully Haslam has the magic touch, and makes the right hires at the top.
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Quote:
And the reason I say two years ... is because that's the kind of continuity you need. We throw our QB into a new offense immediately, and expect instant results. Then call for heads when we don't get Peyton Manning-like performances.
Look at some of the better QBs in the league. Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years behind Farve while learning Mike McCarthy's offense for 2 years. He moved to a starting role, and was successful.
Drew Brees sat the majority of his first year too. Started under a new head coach in 2002, and was actually pretty ineffective. He got sent to the bench halfway through 2003, and didn't actually start to break out until 2004 ... his third year in Marty's system.
Even Tom Brady spent a year and a few games on the bench at New England, learning Belicheck's system until he broke out in as the starter in 2001.
You mean the sit and learn approach works? That's weird because even with Weeden's age I felt that would have been a better approach for his development behind Colt McCoy. But as we all can see with Haslam's purchase of the franchise, careers were on the line 
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Who EXACTLY should we of given more time to?
Mangini.
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Quote:
Quote:
Who EXACTLY should we of given more time to?
Mangini.
Oh great NOW you've done it..
*waits*
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Now if I really wanted to stir the pot I'd start a "Ask Haslam To Rehire Mangini" thread. 
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I blame no one more than the Lerners. They created this culture. Spineless, visionless, aimless, rudderless, whatever you want to call it, it's just less. I'm excited for a passionate new owner but passion does not equate to having a vision or a rational, informed, unwavering direction. The Rooney's, the Mara's and Bob Kraft are all cool customers who've long nurtured winning cultures players want to be a part of. And perhaps most importantly, they rarely allow too much fan feedback to guide the ship. I hope, nay, I pray and wish upon all the heavenly gobbledygook I can muster that our new owner has the wits and the temperament to put this thing together and stay the course through the inevitable slings and arrows of the fans, journalists, pundits & players. It's got to work out for us one of these times right? ... right?
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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Al helped The Move.
That stench has been with us all this time.
Randy seemingly made it worse.
Hopefully it's all gone.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Who EXACTLY should we of given more time to?
Mangini.
Prediction... I think I'll be saying Shurmer this offseason. I know that he'll be very very unpopular and I'll be very alone in my opinion when he does finally hit the bricks but he's not as bad as he's made out to be. He's had a couple legitimately poor to so-so games but he's no Crennel IMO. He's the perfect goat. There's been some epic production/ execution fails in key player groups this season that I don't think you hang on any coach. We have 24 out 52 players in their 1st & 2nd year. There's just no getting around that. And you have to let a coach ride with the same players for a while. A QB and a coach have to get to know each other, trust each other for while. Caughlin didn't seem to trust (or care much) for Eli for almost 2 years of erratic play and play calling here in NY. Shurmer and Weeden will be just about getting to versed with one another when one or both will be tossed with the bath water come offseason. This team is super young and green, including the coach. But we eat the young in Cleveland. It's just what we do.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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As a diehard Browns fan, I would like to see Shurmur go as well. He is a crappy play caller, and HORRIBLE with the challenge. I know, it's not only his call to challenge, but there have been a few lately that have been glaring. Who then?? How about Jon Gruden? I think he would come out of the booth to coach in Cleveland. He has a history there, and a young QB to develop and win with.
Yes, the Browns have had more than their fair share of injuries, but are you telling me that you can't find a way to beat a team that scores 17 F'ing points?!?!?!
I'm all for the return of Chucky.....
Seems Legit.
Now replace Shurmur with McCarthy and Browns with Packers and you have some feelings of Packers fans in December of 2010
TWO MONTHS BEFORE THEY WON THE SUPERBOWL.
Just saying.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
As a diehard Browns fan, I would like to see Shurmur go as well. He is a crappy play caller, and HORRIBLE with the challenge. I know, it's not only his call to challenge, but there have been a few lately that have been glaring. Who then?? How about Jon Gruden? I think he would come out of the booth to coach in Cleveland. He has a history there, and a young QB to develop and win with.
Yes, the Browns have had more than their fair share of injuries, but are you telling me that you can't find a way to beat a team that scores 17 F'ing points?!?!?!
I'm all for the return of Chucky.....
Seems Legit.
Now replace Shurmur with McCarthy and Browns with Packers and you have some feelings of Packers fans in December of 2010
TWO MONTHS BEFORE THEY WON THE SUPERBOWL.
Just saying.
Come on! Were the Packers 2-6 and losing games that only the worst team in the NFL should lose?
This goes back to Shurmer not deserving the job in the first place. And he hasn't shined in any way.
Can't compare the situations!!!!!!
![[Linked Image from thumb0.webshots.net]](http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/34/34/0/73/58/2594073580091396520Miskbz_th.jpg)
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Al helped The Move.
That stench has been with us all this time.
Randy seemingly made it worse.
Hopefully it's all gone.
This. Crappiness often reflects the ownership. We've had a carousel of staffs here since '99, and many can rightfully argue a lot of the staffs weren't set up properly in the first place and that everyone who was shown the door deserved it.
I'm fairly certain whoever is brought in for next year will get a lot of time to prove themselves. Let's hope Haslam picks the right guy, because right or wrong, they'll be here for a while.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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every regime overhaul all it did was set the franchise back more and each regime had a bigger obstacle to overcome than the prior.
Randy Lerner simply gave a blank check book to who ever was running things and shut his door.
He hired inept people who in turn hired more inept people.
The Browns hired head coaches who had no business being head coaches in the 1st place. they hired coordinators that had no business being coordinators.
they hired scouts that had no business being scouts.
how many free agents would make the Browns their number #1 team on this wish list?
and how many 1st RD talent college football players deep inside hoped the Browns wouldn't draft them?
This franchise since 1999 has won how many North titles?
how many playoff appearences?
Haslam has a herculean task of changing the NFL's perception by the Lake.
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The Browns hired head coaches who had no business being head coaches in the 1st place. they hired coordinators that had no business being coordinators.
Butch, Mangini, and Romeo were either HCs elsewhere or have become HCs since their time here. I wouldn't say they had no business though they obviously were not successful.
Chud, Arians, and Daboll have each had OC jobs elsewhere after they left here. Arians, in particular, has had an incredibly successful NFL career except for his time in Cleveland (even that was some of the best offense we have seen since '99 though).
we have never put it all together. hopefully, Haslam helps do that.
#gmstrong
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Intresting,
Kinda makes one wonder what players were asked, I dont see any player with any class answering a question like this, I dont see any player who has a clue about how the media works answering a question such as this.
Out of the 100+ players questions were players sitting around the locker room with no reporters around them so they stuck a mic in thier face and started asking dumb questions, looking for dumb answers trying to start something. Hey are you a player...Ya 3rd string punter, great answer me thing, is Cleveland the worst franchise in the NFL....Well I guess so never really thought about it but.....OK great thanks I'm gonna quote you on that ok...Ahhhhh what was your name....
All this is is crappy reporting,
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from 27 teams
out of 32 very scientific!
103 of 27 teams
thats 3.8 per team
or maybe half where from the giants and the rest from the other teams.
who knows?
Joe Thomas #73
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From what I understand players have trouble voting on probowlers as well. They are biased and vote based on history and less on year to year performance.
This is sort of the opposite of a probowl vote. I wouldn't expect them to be any less biased.So it might not be a very useful measurement. In other ways it could tell us what in general may be believed by potential free agents.
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It must be noted, this vote came after Haslam became the Browns owner and he named Joe Banner as Pres/CEO.
The sale of the Browns was the last thing I expected this year.
After the draft, I was excited because some of the glaring needs on offense had been addressed. I knew this "would not" be the season the team begins winning but the foundation on defense had been laid and now the foundation on the offense.
I expected this to be a season where the young player gained the needed experience as they learn the offensive and defense systems under a good coaching staff beginning their second season together, focused on "teaching" our young players.
Then a guy named Haslam came calling and Lerner couldn't say no to a billion dollars. My first thought was...ok, replacing a rich owner with a richer owner...that cant be bad, right?
But then I found out about this guy Banner and from that point on, it's been all down hill for the Browns. The new owner comes out and claims to have done his due diligence in choosing Banner to replace Holmgren IN MID SEASON.
By now, everyone is aware of how Banner got the job, being one of the investment group with the caveat that he be the one to run which ever team the investment group buys. Banner was the bean counter for the Eagles, in charge of salary cap and contract negotiations and often clashed with HC/GM Andy Reid over player personnel. Banner was fired when Reid had enough of him and gave the Eagles owner, Jeff Lurie and choice...Banner goes or Reid goes.
I did a lot of research into Banner and what I found was troubling. He had become known in Philly as the "most hated" man in the Eagles organization..and it was not just the players who hated Banner..the fans did too.
Reading the many articles on Banner, it became obvious that their is something seriously wrong with the way Banner operates. Putting someone like that in such a critical position deserves questioning by fans, players and media.
This is the guy Haslam judged as the best to fill the position of Pres/CEO?...the most hated man in Philly?...this is the best Haslam could do?
Then Haslam lies about how he did his "due diligence" in picking Banner. Does Haslam believe Browns fans are that stupid?...that we can't read and figure out that Banner leveraged his position with the investment group just to get a job as Pres/CEO?
It is true that Haslam is his honeymoon period and maybe he thought he could get away with claiming to have done his due diligence in selecting Banner, but it wasn't the best way for our new owner to start out.
Together, this duo tries to convince players, coaches (and fans), they need to just keep working hard while Banner and Haslam evaluate their performances...yea, that's great way to bring out the best in everyone...hold a hammer over their head.
Haslam is a rookie owner who has already made a huge mistake, creating chaos within the Browns organization as everyone, from the front office to the players themselves don't have a clue if they will even have a job with the Browns, come next season.
The message sent by our truckstop owner is, he doesn't have a clue how to run a football team or bring stability to the organization.
I would have to rank this season just above the 1995 season, when Browns fans learned that Modell was moving the Browns to Baltimore. We know that the new owner and right hand man (still the most hated man in Philly) are once again going to rip the team up and start all over with another 5 yr plan.
Obviously, looking at this vote others (the players) looking at the Browns and feel the way I do...this franchise is a mess...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
It must be noted, this vote came after Haslam became the Browns owner and he named Joe Banner as Pres/CEO.
No, it doesn't have to be noted because it is irrelevant... it has absolutely nothing to do with Joe Banner, it has to do with over a decade of ineptitude and for you to use this as yet another Joe Banner bash point is pretty sad.... I'm sorry you keep typing the same gibberish over and over again when 90% of the people here stop reading after the first stupid line...
yebat' Putin
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Haslem and the amount had nothing to do with the sale.
Randy had to wait ten years after Al died to sell the team. Had he been able to sooner. He would have.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Randy had to wait ten years after Al died to sell the team. Had he been able to sooner. He would have.
Which benefited him greatly. I doubt he gets a Billion+ ten years ago.
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Probably. But not the point! :P
It's not like Haslem just so happened to come around and ask Randy if he could buy the team.
I'm sure everyone in the NFL knew about Al's wishes, and once the deadline came up Randy had people put out feelers and they came to find Jimmy.
I really kind of hate the Lerner family.
I also find irony in the fact that Modell moved to keep the team in his family, and it's not anymore, and Al wanted to keep the team in the family, and it soon won't be...
Last edited by OSGuy; 11/13/12 05:21 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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OK, I get it now. The Eagles were successful despite having Banner on their staff since 1994. His "PARTNERS Leadership Award" from the University of Pennsylvania for his extensive community service, including volunteer activities reading to students in the Boston public schools and spending time with severely ill children in the Boston Children's Hospital was just a facade to cover up his dastardly deeds....as was his involvement with "City Year", and organization that provides services to inner city youth. Randy Lerner was sitting around, content as could be, until Jimmy Haslam waved a billion dollars in his face to take over the Browns and run them into the ground. Thanks for your extensive research to clear up this matter.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Just wait 'til the full expose comes out.
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Who should they have given more time to? 14 months ago, Hillis, Cribbs,Mccoy, Mohamad Massaquoi, Watson, and maybe Little were keys to the offense. Today they barely will get any snaps. 14 months from now, Who Knows will be around. They aren't getting people to add to the foundation They didn't build onto the foundation they had in 94', They didn't build onto the foundation they had in 01' They didn't build onto the foundation they had in 06-07' At this point, " What Happened! " doesn't sum it up. 
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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