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Also T-Rich, Weeden, Schwartz and next years 1st round pick (which would have still been high) is > then RGIII IMHO.
Let me put on my Kendall Storm rand hindisght glasses for a second...
You trade the 4th, 22nd, and 2nd round (and next years 1st) for RG3.
You then get to keep your 4th, 5th and 7th selections that you traded for Richardson, so we're still getting the same AMOUNT of talent.
You draft the best RT in round 3 (or possibly trade UP and STILL get Schwartz)
And hey look, Hardesty hits the hole better then Richardson anyways...
You add RG3 to this team and without question we are currently a playoff team...
Just saying. 
The ONLY way it's better than RG3 is if Weeden pans out. If we draft another QB high within the next few years that will be our biggest failure.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Also T-Rich, Weeden, Schwartz and next years 1st round pick (which would have still been high) is > then RGIII IMHO.
Let me put on my Kendall Storm rand hindisght glasses for a second...
You trade the 4th, 22nd, and 2nd round (and next years 1st) for RG3.
You then get to keep your 4th, 5th and 7th selections that you traded for Richardson, so we're still getting the same AMOUNT of talent.
You draft the best RT in round 3 (or possibly trade UP and STILL get Schwartz)
And hey look, Hardesty hits the hole better then Richardson anyways...
You add RG3 to this team and without question we are currently a playoff team...
Just saying.
The ONLY way it's better than RG3 is if Weeden pans out. If we draft another QB high within the next few years that will be our biggest failure.
Funny how perceptions change with a couple plays. We've all done it but at the beginning of the year most (me included) thought Hardesty was a bust pick. I read alot about how that was a wasted trade and a bust.
He makes a couple plays and wow how minds change.
Schwartz is probably going to be a Pro-Bowler soon. You are not going to get that talent back in the 3rd. I love Heckert but that is a reach to expect.
I personally dont believe RGIII makes this team a playoff team. The reason is because he has way more talent on the offense then we have ATM. Our guys are learning and may soon be at those levels but right now we are not there so his record speaks for itself Hes won 2 more games against a weaker division and more talent. I would call it a wash between Weeden and RGIII at this point an that is not uncluding the stud we will get next year with our 1st pick.
Again Im not saying I wouldnt have wanted RG3 just the cost would have been to much for this team at this time to invest and watch him get killed behind a line that last year we all agreed needed a major upgrade at RT. Our OL is great at pass blocking right now because Weeden stays home. Last year they got killed because McCoy ran around at the first sign of trouble much like RG3 does.
Im not sure how our line would look with him running all over the place.
So the only way it pans out isnt if Weeden is better, you could have a pro bowl RT a Pro Bowl RB a Pro Bowl player the next draft and a QB who has been showing the ability to "get it" ~VS~ a QB who looks like he will become a Vick like player.
The only way that this works out in Washingtons favor is if they win a SB and we dont. Both teams are a bit off that area of play and RG3 here isnt the same RG3 there. Not by a long shot.
All of course Imho. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Three words.
Bob LaMonte clients.
as if that's a good answer
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How in the hell did he set this organization back?
It's hard to set something back that is already about as far back as it can go.
The Shurmur hire really stinks. The fact that he didn't even really look for anyone else stinks even more.
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Holmgren brought in Heckert that's good enough for me.
The more I think about it, the more I think Heckert was placed here by LaMonte. Holmgren came first followed by a long trail of other LaMonte clients.
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Last year they got killed because McCoy ran around at the first sign of trouble much like RG3 does.
I don't know where this perception keeps coming from. But RG3 this year hasn't been that much of a "scrambler"
Washington is calling a lot of read action and QB runs for him.
But it's no like every other time he drops back he runs.
He's more like Rodgers than Newton, in that he moves around in the pocket, and continues to look down field.
McCoy would look to RUN at the first sign of anything, even if there were no signs.
Griffin doesn't.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Holmgren brought in Heckert that's good enough for me.
The more I think about it, the more I think Heckert was placed here by LaMonte. Holmgren came first followed by a long trail of other LaMonte clients.
this just begs the question of who do you think wanted to come here and be the GM of the hapless Cleveland Browns? Who would you have hired that Actually would have came in here and done a better job?
Sometimes the complaints are worthy of discussion but that isnt one of them to me.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Holmgren may not have set the organization back,but at the end of the day the Browns are still the 4th team in the AFC North.
But beating the Steelers and winning 2 games in the North so far points to
the arrow being in the right direction.
The AFC North is one of the most difficult divisions in the AFC North.
3 of the 4 teams have above .500 records now.
I'm not gonna give Holmgren too much praise.
whoopie now the Browns have a NFL calibur scouting dept.
the truth is he didn't produce a franchise QB and hasn't made the Browns a playoff team.
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Last year they got killed because McCoy ran around at the first sign of trouble much like RG3 does.
I don't know where this perception keeps coming from. But RG3 this year hasn't been that much of a "scrambler"
Washington is calling a lot of read action and QB runs for him.
But it's no like every other time he drops back he runs.
He's more like Rodgers than Newton, in that he moves around in the pocket, and continues to look down field.
McCoy would look to RUN at the first sign of anything, even if there were no signs.
Griffin doesn't.
I wont argue that point but I will ask then do you think that Shurmur would be calling for said designed QB runs? Would RG3 stand in the pocket in the face of the pressure Balt and Pittsburgh and even cinci bring? I dont know the answer to either of those questions but I think the answer to both would be no.
If Shurmur called PA roll outs like hes done with Weeds I have to believe that RG3 would take off at the first sign of trouble because from what little Ive seen of him thats what Ive seen him do.
We all will get a good look at him in a bit should be an interesting game.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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The AFC North is one of the most difficult divisions in the AFC North.
Well, you can't argue that fact, now can you. 
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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The AFC North is one of the most difficult divisions in the AFC North.
Well, you can't argue that fact, now can you.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I wont argue that point but I will ask then do you think that Shurmur would be calling for said designed QB runs?
I've said it a couple time, While I'd love to have RG3, I don't know that Pat would know how to use him to the best of Griffin's abilities, because he can't even use Weeden to the best of his...
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Would RG3 stand in the pocket in the face of the pressure Balt and Pittsburgh and even cinci bring?
Did pretty well against the Giants, Eagles, and even Cincy...
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If Shurmur called PA roll outs like hes done with Weeds I have to believe that RG3 would take off at the first sign of trouble because from what little Ive seen of him thats what Ive seen him do.
Or, because Griffin can throw on the run 100 times better than Weeden, they would of been completed passes. And hey look, he's already familiar with Gordon...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The AFC North is one of the most difficult divisions in the AFC North.
Well, you can't argue that fact, now can you.
I'm of the opinion that the AFC North is one of the weakest divisions in the AFC North, and that it's all Holmgren's and Shurmur's fault.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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The AFC North is one of the most difficult divisions in the AFC North.
Well, you can't argue that fact, now can you.
I'm of the opinion that the AFC North is one of the weakest divisions in the AFC North, and that it's all Holmgren's and Shurmur's fault.
Don't forget Mangini's!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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you add RG3 to this team and without question we are currently a playoff team...
wait, what?
RGIII's team is 5-6. I agree he is better than Weeden as a prospect and has played better thus far, but we are going to be short elsewhere giving up all those picks.
Who knows if Hardesty holds up to the RB1 abuse? Or if he ever gets healthy enough to look like he has the past few weeks at all.
Who knows if we find a RT or can trade up to get Schwartz or Glenn? or if we trade up, what other things we give up to get him.
Who knows how our DL manages without Taylor, Rubin (early) if we don't draft Hughes and Winn (possibly miss both as we were focusing on offense in the draft and would have less picks).
Who knows if we risk a 2013 2nd round pick on a WR with red flags when we already don't have a 2013 1st round pick? Seems to be Savage-esque.
Too many questions and assumptions to go down that road. If we are talking about what we "should" have done then it is we should have completely tanked the 2011 season and got in line for Luck or RGIII with our own pick. Failing that, I will take the path that we are currently on over the bounty it would have taken for RGIII.
#gmstrong
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Too many questions and assumptions to go down that road.
Yep.
Though, we probably could have had Schwartz in the third.
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5-6 is one game out of the Wild Card in the AFC right now...
And yes why would we take a flyer on a QB in the 2nd... Except for the fact that he played with Griffin at Baylor...
I could also argue, that with us trading for the 2nd pick like Washington, we could of sold RG3 to guys like Garcon, basically what Washington did.. And may not have "needed" to go after Gordon..
RG3 is better than Weeden. And everyone has claimed how many more games we could have won with better play from Weeden... So yeah...
Last edited by OSGuy; 11/26/12 07:12 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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And everyone has claimed how many more games we could have won with better play from Weeden... So yeah...
Not as many as we'd have won with better play from our defense.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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this just begs the question oµ who do you think wanted to come here and be the GM of the hapless Cleveland Browns?
I'm betting there are more than you think. There are only 32 NFL general manager jobs. It is a coveted position. Someone would have stepped up.
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Who would you have hired that Actually would have came in here and done a better job?
I think Heckert, like Shurmur, was hired because of his connections with Holmgren and LaMonte. We just got lucky that he also happened to be job at his job.
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Too many questions and assumptions to go down that road.
Yep.
Though, we probably could have had Schwartz in the third.
Sarcasm or you're STILL upset over passing on Cordy Glenn? How is he doing anyway?
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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I could also argue, that with us trading for the 2nd pick like Washington, we could of sold RG3 to guys like Garcon, basically what Washington did.. And may not have "needed" to go after Gordon..
considering he is making ~$10mil for this season to play 5 games and has 16receptions, I think we would have needed Gordon anyway 
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RG3 is better than Weeden. And everyone has claimed how many more games we could have won with better play from Weeden... So yeah...
with the team as constructed. remove some of those important pieces and it may fall apart quickly particularly RT.
#gmstrong
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So your argument is that had we got RG3, we would of lost other pieces, and apparently would have done absolutely nothing to fill them?
Ok then.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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So your argument is that had we got RG3, we would of lost other pieces, and apparently would have done absolutely nothing to fill them?
Ok then.
we wouldn't have had the draft ammo to fill them, Heckert has been very consistent with his build through the draft methodology, would he have strayed had we drafted RGIII?
even if he did, in FA:
the WRs were ridiculously over-priced and Garcon (if that's who we got) hasn't helped the Redskins this year
the RT-prize was supposedly Eric Winston who has been absolutely terrible for the Chiefs
Mario Williams (we needed something on DL) hasn't exactly been a savior for the Bills.
building through the draft is the correct way. not band-aiding with over-priced FAs. we are doing that.
I understand RGIII has looked really good. I understand it starts at QB. I also understand that this current Browns team has more promise than any I can remember since '99 and I'm not willing to throw that away and guess that we'd be okay without the guts of the team.
#gmstrong
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No my arguement at least is that the peices we may have "found" may not have been as good or fit as well as what we have now. Aging veterens are not the same as hungry rookies just ask Scott Fujita. We had Lewis he was good for 1 year. We had Hillis good for 1 year the list goes on.
We have Brown who is at the very end of his career. We signed Rucker and Parker who many didnt like but they are doing well on this defense and chances are if we had to spend that money on the offense we wouldnt have them.
As said to many variables to extrapulate how those moves would have worked.
Alls we can do is see what happened in Washington and happens in the future with them having much better talent to start and signing vets VS us keeping those picks watching them and Weeden and the next 1st pick to see which direction worked out the best.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Cordy Glenn is having a very good year and has been installed as their LT. Would I take him over Schwartz? It's a good question. But yes I would. He's a guy that can move a pile and has great agility for his size. Here's an article from a few weeks ago: CBS Sports Bills OT Cordy Glenn (second round, 41st overall, Georgia): A potential first-rounder a year ago, Glenn dropped to the second round because most viewed him as a guard-only prospect. However, the former Georgia product earned the Bills' starting left tackle position in the preseason and started the first four games there. Although he's missed the last few games with an injury, the coaches believe Glenn is the answer to Buffalo's search for a legit left tackle. Rang agreed.
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Alls we can do is see what happened in Washington and happens in the future with them having much better talent to start and signing vets VS us keeping those picks watching them and Weeden and the next 1st pick to see which direction worked out the best.
I also don't get this...
For the next two years Washington will have ONE less draft pick each year, and the way it's looking, it's not going to be a Top 10 pick in any of them...
They still get 6+ picks every year to bring in talent.
The only THEY went FA crazy is because THEY ALWAYS DO.
People acted like trading for RG3 meant we werent allowed to draft anyone for 2 years...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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oh man,my error. I meant 'in the NFL". funny
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I agree about Griffin. The guy is 7 years younger, and upside is so huge, who knows how much he will accomplish in Washington. The guy isn't Vick, he's incredibly smart, hard worker, everything you want in a quarterback. Weeden hasn't been a bust here, but the 7 years is the killer here. Rg3 could be their quarterback for the next 12 years, while Weeden maybe here 5-7 at the longest.
I know I would have went all in for Griffin. He is such a rare talent. Just Look at Richardson. He's not even the best back in that draft, if you want to go on statistics. Doug Martin has been more explosive. Heck I wouldn't even cared if they kept the 6th pick in 11, and drafted Julio Jones to go with Rg3. Counting Thomas and Mack, that would've given us 4 pro bowlers to build around for the future. (Considering Griffin and Jones make it this year) It would suck to have no first in 13, or 14, but Griffin's longevity over Weeden, I would have no problem being somewhat limited those yrs.
You are correct in saying, if we missed on Weeden, it's a huge mistake, and one that will haunt this franchise for years to come.
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Further, who knows how the Redskins would be doing if they had not lost Brian Orakpo, Adam Carriker, and Fred Davis early on this year?
They lost some important players to injury for the year. Look at the difference that Taylor is making on our defense ..... and Orakpo is probably even more important to the Redskins' defense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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didnt we lose haden for a game or 5? Injurys happen to all teams no more excuses this team is bringing it and they are going to win. I may have to kick Shurmur in the rear but darn it this is a good team and they now know it. Notice has been served. We are going into the Black Hole and returning from it in a new universe where the Browns are a force to be reckoned with. We will not lay down because some media pundit says we should. We wont back down from the calling of he battle field, We will rise up and attack like a dog should do protecting its house and its domain. This is soon to be our time. This is our Team. This is the beginning of Glory and making of Greatness. March with us or walk behind lead or follow does not matter for we are on a path, a path that will be remembered by us our kids and our grandkids alike. A time of glory at its beginning. Enjoy my fellow Dawgs for now is the time to sound the howl of VICTORY! 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I'm scared... What if we finish 6-10... Or 7-9... And..And.. THEY KEEP SHURMUR!?!?!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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They won't. We can finish 8-8 somehow make the playoffs and Shurmur will be gone.
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They won't. We can finish 8-8 somehow make the playoffs and Shurmur will be gone.
If we finish 7-9 or 8-8 with this many rookies and 2nd year players starting for us, with as tough a schedule as we've had this year... he sure as heck better be staying!
That's success, people.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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They won't. We can finish 8-8 somehow make the playoffs and Shurmur will be gone.
If we finish 7-9 or 8-8 with this many rookies and 2nd year players starting for us, with as tough a schedule as we've had this year... he sure as heck better be staying!
That's success, people.
first, I doubt we win 7 or 8 games. I think 6 (3-2 down the stretch from here) would be a good achievement from that terrible 0-5 start. I don't know if it 'saves' Shurmur's job or whatever, but I'm not really all that concerned about it. I care more about the foundation built of the team we have.
worst loss this season: 10pt loss that we never really had a shot at getting much closer vs. Bills (who happen to be the worst team we faced this year --- only because the Eagles didn't implode quite yet, but still)
no blowouts, competitive each week. real good chances to win in Eagles, 1st Cinci, 1st Balt, Dallas, and had big lead vs. Giants early. Indy, Bills, and 2nd Balt game felt like other team had control, but we kept the score close and had decent shots at getting closer in 2 of them.
did all of the above while missing our best CB (Haden), 2 best DTs (Rubin, Taylor), SOLB (Gocong), lost LG (Pinkston), and multiple injuries up&down the WR line (MoMass, Benjamin, Cooper, Norwood, Watson). this means we showed decent depth to keep these games close (though missing Haden really hurt our secondary and was pretty obvious).
Winn, Robertson, Fort, Hughes - all rookies on defense that have had very nice moments. Especially Winn (plugged in as starter even with Rubin/Taylor back) and Robertson (best coverage LBer on the team). That's without mentioning JMJ who is starting to progress the last 4 weeks despite missing early with injuries.
Rubin/Taylor/Sheard + Rucker/Parker for depth gives us a hellish DL for an opponent to face when combined with the rookies above. And 2 of those guys are 2nd year players themselves.
DQ+Maiava (thought he was a lost cause but he's had a few decent plays lately) gives us some depth at LBer (we still need a jaw-dropper here).
Haden+Ward give us some good youth in the secondary but Brown, Skrine, Patterson, Young, Hagg have shown we need more talent here. Still, they have done better than expected overall.
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OL: JoeT, Pinkston/Greco, Mack, Lauvao, Schwartz
Pinkston was impressing me until he got hurt. a shame. but, I think we just need a RG and we'll be set at OL. 3rd/4th round pick should do the trick. we have a good OL as it is.
and JoeT is the elder statesman here. a very young OL as well.
RB: Richardson, Hardesty
who thought Hardesty would show promise? not sure if he can stay healthy (as he's not getting any type of load), but he's looked good. both young.
another young group.
WR: Gordon, Little, Benjamin
outside of them, you can replace them all for all I care. but each of those 3 have shown they can be apart of our WR corps moving forward. not sure what Little did about his drops but he hasn't been dropping lately. of course, he's not getting as many targets because Gordon is actually running routes now besides going long every time. Benjamin is a jitterbug if he can stay healthy (big if with his size).
and all 1st or 2nd year players.
TE: Watson (old), Cameron (disappointing)
really an area that needs obvious improvement. starting to show better but Watson bobbles too many even when he catches it and Cameron just isn't what I had hoped. he still likely has another year to "get it" but his time is likely running short for us.
QB: Weeden
here's the stumbling block. on one hand, he had a better game against Pitt than the other rookie QBs they have faced (including RGIII). on the other hand, his accuracy has lagged recently, he's progressing but we want to see that "breakout game" and his YPA isn't impressive. I like the improvements (not staring down the primary, spreading the ball around, etc.), but he has a long way to go. he is just a rookie though. we shall see.
KR/PR: Cribbs has had a resurgent year. if he can come back on a ST deal, then great. if not, then we'll have to replace a good asset.
K: HOFer Phil Dawson (or he would be if he wasn't stuck on a bad team for so long)
P: Hodges (if we replaced him, i wouldn't be heartbroken. he's okay, but not great)
=========================================
a team with this much youth is fighting/clawing to stay in games and is doing a pretty fine job at that. not the crazy up and down games you see with alot of young teams (though alot of up and down plays themselves).
i, myself, am pretty excited about all of this youth maturing and hope that if we replace the current regime completely (seemingly likely - though holding out some hope for Heckert) that we will make the correct choice in the replacement and that the key cogs will remain (mostly those mentioned above).
i don't want another situation where there are only 5 guys from this team left the next time we face the NFC East (as there were this time around from 2008 - JoeT, Cribbs, Dawson, DQ, Rubin).
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
I don't think Haslam and Banner are looking at the win/loss column THIS year.
I think they are looking for a cohesive staff that is on one page, and makes great decisions together. I think they are looking for a head coach that makes great decisions period.
The only problem I have is if Shurmur isn't retained, Haslam in my mind must be going for someone with NFL experience on their resume. No way you can judge a NCAA HC and think that his success there will translate to the NFL.
If Shurmur beats Pitt again... I say we keep him.. We say this each and every year.. Win against Pitt and we love you. If he can go 2-0 against the Steelers, in my eyes, he deserves another year.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Quote:
They won't. We can finish 8-8 somehow make the playoffs and Shurmur will be gone.
If we finish 7-9 or 8-8 with this many rookies and 2nd year players starting for us, with as tough a schedule as we've had this year... he sure as heck better be staying!
That's success, people.
Yeah, and we won how many with Mangini to finish the year?
Crennel got us to 10-6. How'd that work out for us?
Shurmur is just a flat-bad game day coach, just like Crennel was. He had his chance and he failed. It's time to turn the page no matter what the outcome.
I was elated that we beat up a gimpy Steelers team, but there's WAY too much love and feel-good emotions going on here after that win.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
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IMO the Shurmur decision has already been made. He is a goner.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 817
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 817 |
Quote:
I don't think Haslam and Banner are looking at the win/loss column THIS year.
I think they are looking for a cohesive staff that is on one page, and makes great decisions together. I think they are looking for a head coach that makes great decisions period.
The only problem I have is if Shurmur isn't retained, Haslam in my mind must be going for someone with NFL experience on their resume. No way you can judge a NCAA HC and think that his success there will translate to the NFL.
If Shurmur beats Pitt again... I say we keep him.. We say this each and every year.. Win against Pitt and we love you. If he can go 2-0 against the Steelers, in my eyes, he deserves another year.
As much as it pains me to say this, I agree. Two wins over Pittsburgh is the ticket to continued employment for Shurmur. He's a lousy game day coach and it won't bother me the least bit to see him fired. But a coach who goes 2-0 with the Steelers gets a pass from me. I still firmly believe that the road to the Super Bowl runs through Pittsburgh for the AFC North. We have to be able to beat them to expect any sort of success at all.
What I want from the new ownership is a logical and thoughtful approach to the whole thing. I'm tired of knee-jerk reactions and putting all our hopes on the latest hire. If we find someone better than Shurmur then we hire him. Same thing goes for everyone in the organization. If nobody is available then we just keep on keeping on. It's not like the team is disintegrating right in front of us. Keep adding young talent and look for stable and smart coaches.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Two wins over Pittsburgh is the ticket to continued employment for Shurmur.
But a coach who goes 2-0 with the Steelers gets a pass from me
Are our standards really that low...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
Quote:
Two wins over Pittsburgh is the ticket to continued employment for Shurmur.
But a coach who goes 2-0 with the Steelers gets a pass from me
Are our standards really that low...
baby steps...
#GMSTRONG
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