DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lerner on Browns' Loss: 'Sickening'

Lerner on Browns' Loss: 'Sickening'

By TOM WITHERS (AP Sports Writer)
From Associated PressNovember 29, 2006 6:43 PM EST

AMAGANSETT, N.Y. - From his owner's suite, Randy Lerner watched, worried and wondered about his Cleveland Browns.
On Sunday, Lerner was repulsed by the way the Browns were manhandled at home by the Cincinnati Bengals and troubled by wide receiver Braylon Edwards' sideline rant against his teammates.
"I found Sunday to be sickening," Lerner said.
And what made him illest?
"Across the board," he said. "Everything. I thought the lack of composure. The lack of performance. I thought the wheels came off on Sunday."
The Browns appear to be a broken-down mess - again - and Lerner's candid assessment of their most recent performance underscores a multitude of issues confronting the club as it heads into a final, critical month of the season.
Coach Romeo Crennel is fighting for his job. Edwards is fighting his teammates. And Browns fans, at least the ones who aren't too ashamed to acknowledge their loyalty to the orange helmet, are fighting mad.
Crennel has come under scathing public attack for a perceived lack of discipline on the club, and particularly with the motor-mouthed Edwards, who threw a tantrum during the third quarter of the 30-0 loss to Cincinnati.
Edwards blamed losing his cool on his "passion for the game." He doesn't feel some of his teammates are displaying the same desire to win as him. And for the second time this season, Edwards' criticism was directed at the club's offensive line, a unit depleted by injury and now missing right tackle Ryan Tucker (undisclosed illness) for the rest of the season.
Following Edwards' latest rant, the greatest Brown of them all weighed in on the turmoil.
"It's really the leadership that has to clamp down on things," Hall of Fame running back Jim Brown said. "I imagine that would be Romeo's job to make sure these things aren't happening. That's not a putdown on Romeo. It's that it's his arena. He's the boss."
For the moment.
Crennel, who won a handful of Super Bowl rings as a defensive coach, is now 9-18 in his first two seasons as a head coach. Crennel's biggest flaw may be his sense of loyalty. He stood by embattled offensive coordinator Maurice Carthon until it became clear the players had lost faith in his play calling.
Crennel believes he has control of the team and is convinced he can keep the Browns from splintering over the next five weeks.
"You'll see this team stay together," Crennel vowed. "This team will fight, this team will compete as we go forward. Part of my task is to make sure we do that."
He also believes he still has the backing of Lerner and general manager Phil Savage.
"If I didn't have the support, I probably wouldn't be sitting up here talking to you," Crennel told reporters at the team's training facility Wednesday. "I'm assuming that I have the support. Until I know otherwise, or I'm told otherwise. I feel like I have support."
If Crennel doesn't hold the team together, the Browns will be forced into another winter of dramatic change. Crennel is Cleveland's third coach - and third with no NFL head coaching experience - since 1999. A fourth coach in eight years would not be a sign of progress.
Linebacker Willie McGinest led a chorus of support Wednesday from the Browns locker room for Crennel, known by his initials, RAC.
"For RAC to be ridiculed or prosecuted for what went on and what's going on, I think is ridiculous," said McGinest, who played under Crennel in New England. "The man's a decorated general in this game."
Edwards also backed his coach, saying the players should take the blame for the last two weeks. He doesn't believe Crennel's future hangs in the balance as the Browns face Kansas City on Sunday, then play a Thursday night game at Pittsburgh.
"I don't think these 10 days will save Romeo's job. I don't think his job, to be honest, is in danger," Edwards said. "There's a lot of talk right now. There's a lot of media hype. But in actuality, I don't think Romeo is going anywhere and I don't think he needs to go anywhere."
Lerner hasn't lost hope in the Browns or Crennel. While his team has again been plagued by costly injuries and Charlie Frye has been batted around like a pinata, the Browns have shown some encouraging signs of growth. That is, growth for them.
Other than two lopsided losses to Cincinnati, they have been competitive every Sunday. Just a week earlier, the Browns led the Pittsburgh Steelers for 3 1/2 quarters before collapsing.
However, in the aftermath of the debacle against the Bengals, Lerner found it difficult to feel much satisfaction from a could've, should've loss.
"What I saw with the Steelers game was a very motivated, passionate Cleveland Browns that wanted to win and played to win," he said. "But I don't know that I would be prepared to elevate it to a positive. Winning would have been positive, but we're not there yet."

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/spo?guid=20061129/456d13d0_3ca6_15526200611291492290793

And some say that Lerner doesn't get it.



The thing that makes me sickest is that, even after 3 coaching regimes, and 8 years back in the league, this team has nothing it does consiistently well. We don't run the ball, nor do we stop the run. We can't pass, nor stop the pass. We can't score, nor can we stop teams from scoring.

Yep, sickening pretty much wraps it all up .... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Nice find. Good read.

To be honest, I'm glad I'm not Randy. New coach, new gm, new QB, new O-line......there are some very tough questions to answer.

I still believe the way we end the season will determine a lot this offseason. If we tank the rest of the game and just quit, a lot of people will be gone, again. Since 99, this team seems to implode the longer they're in a season. Once we flip our shell over, there's no turning it back upright.

What I wouldn't give to win out from here. Even though it would mean nothing in the playoff picture and many wouldn't respect it, I want to see it.

You couldn't be more wrong, we EXCEL at changing QBs <img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" />

No, because the new ones are no better than the old ones .... just different.

[color:"white"]I'm neither excusing what happened nor am I doing anything but stating what I find to be obvious: We're a rebuilding team that lacks talent, so losing and having young players going off is expected to some degree.

Now if this is still happening at this point next season, yeah, it'll be time to pull the plug........again...........and rebuild.........again......from the GM down.......again. [/color]

I'm really stuck on this; it makes me sick to my stomach to see the team play like it did Sunday and part of me says Romeo should go. Then the other (I guess more rational) side of me says we are still young and rebuilding.


If the team is still in disarray next year I would support the firing of Romeo and hiring a new coach but in no way could I see how replacing the GM help. Savage has brought more talent in here than anyone since 99 IMO; also I think he is a great talent evaluator. And that much change would seem to me just to set us back even further; a new GM is going to want all new players again. A new coach may want a few, but I'm sure Savage wouldn't bring someone in here that is looking to change the entire team.

Also; no link or anything but I guess Savage is holding a Presser tomorrow at 10am. Maybe something with Tucker? Or showing support for RAC? Don't know?

Man, maybe Butch wasn't bad after all. I mean he did take us to the playoffs. He had a 16-16 record until his final season. He drafted Andra Davis, Sean Jones and Kellen Winslow who are really the heart of the team so far this year.

I couldn't stand Butch after he tore that playoff team apart, but maybe he should have been given a longer chance. Hell, I'll be the first to admit I wanted him gone. Just look at my sig.

Maybe I was wrong......

Raleigh

Butch had too much control for his own good; he couldn't focus on one area of the team; which intern caused a lack of continuity throughout the organization.

[color:"white"]Hehe...It's hard playing the guy who goes with both sides of the fence, as those that have to live on the extremes always view my takes as being opposite of what they believe <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> With that in mind, Savage isn't perfect, and hasn't proven to be perfect. In my opinion, here are the ones he's gotten wrong (no need to argue with me that he's great, as this is just about his misses, since the premise of my point is to show that he isn't perfect):

Shaffer. He paid very good left tackle money to get a rather substandard left tackle.

Baxter. I liked the move because I felt he'd make a good safety if the experiment at corner failed. He did not play well as a corner. His injury gives Savage an out, but to my eye, Gary wasn't playing any better than nobodies named Brown and Holly.

Andruzzi and Coleman. Sure, we needed guards, and no, he didn't pay a premium to get them, but they are clearly part of the problem, not part of the answer.

Carthon. One can say that he was Romeo's guy if one so chooses, but Savage had to approve it, and Mo was a very poor decision. That move cost us Dilfer and the 4th rounder it cost us to get him.

And finally, ultimately, if Romeo loses the players, his hiring will also be on Savage.

Now, keep in mind that we're going on the premise that we'll still be losing next season like we are now. That will mean guys like Frye and Shaffer haven't panned out, and that other moves have also failed. Those would be on Savage, and by the third year of his plan, we'd have to be better than 3-8 or 4-9. Savaged threw away '05 so that we could build quicker in '06 and '07. If he's failing in '07, it'll be on his head as he's pushed the cap.

Again, he's made good moves, but if we're losing next year, there will be plenty of reasons why he's failed. Let's just hope it doesn't get to that point.

Now, it's time to break down the Steelers game.....[/color]

Good read, Vers, thanks.

I agree with pretty much everything that everyone has said. I just wanted to add my $0.02.


I have to say that I am not, nor do I ever see myself getting to the point, that I am ashamed to say I'm a Browns fan. That's the kind of stuff that Steelers and Bengals fans do. Am I mad and frustrated? Hell yeah. But, God can only hate us for so long, that's my belief.

it aint easy being a browns fan

Ummmm....except for the fact that we have assembled one of the best special teams in the league that will pay huge dividends in the future, have went from the most penalized team in the league to the least, and have had BOTH the best kick returner and punt returner for a large part of the season.

Give credit where credit is due!

If we had terrible special teams, you guys would be ripping it left and right and blaming it on Crennel. But we have one of the best groups in the league, and no one mentions a thing about it.

Everyone bitched and moaned about punting last year. This year, we have a very good punter, and not one person on this board has acknowledged that as a positive thing, a progression, a change for the better -- nothing.

now now... you know the media better then that... they only focus on the negative. You really have to wonder how better off America would be if the news was only positive and they talked about the good not the bad.

The 'media'? It's happening right here on this board!

that's just cause we lost faith in our Brownies this year....

Yup. Lerner said it was sickening. So did we. But that's about all he said. Most of the rest was just the writer. Problem is, these writings tend to snowball...sometimes into a huge crash.

Not to put down the special teams, because they are vitally important .... but the only team I can think of that made the playoffs primarily on the strength of their special teams was Kansas City when Frank Gantz was coaching their special teams.

Gotta wonder if RAC is going to take the Butch approach and quit then hope he gets his compensation the same way...

He doesn't sound as confident in his confrences as he did before. especially if you look at the words he uses. they are no longer firm they are hopefully maybe I think...

Not to say you are completely wrong but I look at it from this point of view... Field position is everything in football. If you take an average team that has an outside shot at making the playoffs but they have bad special teams.. they probably won't make it as easily as If they had a great special teams like the Browns... then they would almost be a shoe in.

Lets say their average field position is at the 20. Now take a team with one of the best field positions at the 31.Moving 11 yards close on a drive would be more opportunities at FG's more opportunities to throw it to the endzone when you are at the 30 instead of the 41. It would carry that team from good to better. Then take a weak punter on the same team and add 10 touchbacks instead of pinning an opponent inside their 5. That alone is going to make a huge differnce for the D and the opposing O. Not to mention that special teams can take the wind out of a team or can electrify a team in an instant.

I think special teams is more important then people give it credit. It's in the name... special. It can change the outlook of a game and go from winning to losing on one play in 15 seconds or less. JMHO

We lose games thaat we should win well. We repeat coaching losses caused by horrible theory football philosophies. don't blitz. we might get beat; this soft cover secondary sucks and it costs us games. Right up there with that sideways passing genius. Stuff is screwed up; the coaches claim part of the blame. If sideline decisions contributed to losses regularly, the majority of the time, I would have trouble playing passionately. I would rather take losses when we let it hang out more than this boring ball. somebody needs to get it. Hey we ARE playing for a draft pick-- greeeeeeaaaaatttt!!!!!!
da Browns gotta change ! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I have to say that if it weren't or Bill Cowher and the Cleveland special teams in the 80's...without it...I don't know that we do what we did. I wouldn't say the success was 'primarily' because of that...but it was integral.

Somebody ask Jim Tressel how important Special teams are. I remember Bill Belichek breaking a team into three segments, and ranking their importance equal. Offense, Defense, and Special teams were the three segments. We are about half way there overall imo.

The most telling line in the whole story. You'd think we should learn from this.

Hey Punch, I have to disagree with you, if we win out the rest of the season I think it will earn us a small measure of respect. Because I'm sure, at this point, everyone probably thinks that we will struggle to win 1 more game, much less all 5. JMHO

Nice read Vers, I think this article says that Randy gets it and he wants the Browns to win. I'm not sure he really knows what to do but that is why Savage and RAC are here, to make the football decisions. Those decisions, so far, have not all been great ones and some of them have just had bad luck run into them. Hopefully things will turn towards the better for Savage, RAC, and the Browns. However, they have to work at making it better.

Like any owner, he gets it when people show up late and begin leaving at halftime. By the beginning of the 4th qtr, the stadium was half empty.

And it wasn't just the "club" crowd as some are so eager to point out.

The "true fans of the dawgpound" as some like to think, took the early train home as well.

Savage had to be squirming a bit sitting in the box, watching and listening to Lerners displeasure.

Maybe that is the part of being a GM he doesn't like....having to answer the owners pointed questions on Sundays while our team is getting waxed week after week.

Obviously winning is the only acceptable gameplan here, but if we showed real,positive emotion I would be happier. This past Sunday, and a few other recent lopsided losses to the Steelers, brought back memories of 1967's loss of 55-7 vs. Green Bay when the team quit trying.
Attitude stems from the coach but effort must flow from the players themselves.

jc..

I think we can also claim the defense is making progress.

Given their ability to keep us in games, with a couple rookie LBs, and our 3rd string cornerbacks (Brown & Holly) neither of whom were on this team last year and Holly is only a 2nd year NFL player. (FYI: http://www.davenholy.com )

I think if we had Bodden and another "good" corner, we would see more blitzing, and probably an even better over all defense that would have finished that Pittsburgh game.

Our offense struggles, some claim it's the QB, some claim its the lack of a running game, and most agree, both the above are related to an inadequate Oline.

Given all the above, I'm not willing to give up on Crennel.

Defenses win championships, you just need an adequate offense to do it, and that easier to put to gether than a dominant defense.

It's not that bad. I have friends who are Cincy and Pittsburgh fans and they just shake their heads. They can spout off about how much Cleveland stinks this year but in the backs of their tiny little reptillian brains they see something coming. The Pittsburgh types especially see the writing on the wall. Cleveland is going to have a real football team very soon. Many of them are actually excited at the prospect of Cleveland being a good team again. The smack talk we exchange is different now. It's almost like they expect payback in the not-too-distant future.

J.

[color:"red"]Shaffer. He paid very good left tackle money to get a rather substandard left tackle.
[/color]

What should he have done?
I stated on another thread he COULD have signed a vet..and went into the draft and get a OT..
Someone countered and said well he couldn't have that kind of hole/desperation going into the draft, he could miss out .
I replied he went into the draft with a HOLE at OLB/ILB and he filled it didn't he?
He could have filled the OT spot too..I saw how the OT's were slated and they went pretty much in the second round..we had a chance.

[color:"red"]Andruzzi and Coleman. Sure, we needed guards, and no, he didn't pay a premium to get them, but they are clearly part of the problem, not part of the answer.
[/color]
Druzzi I didn't mind, but Colemen I did..and I always think Druzzi is not a fit at LG.
But Phil did say he wanted a veteran line in front of Chuck.

[color:"red"]Carthon. One can say that he was Romeo's guy if one so chooses, but Savage had to approve it, and Mo was a very poor decision. That move cost us Dilfer and the 4th rounder it cost us to get him.
[/color]

That one annoyed me as it played out this year and it wasted a veteran QB..although Dillpickle WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE VET I would have brought in...His play sucked and still does.
But I'm not ready to pull the plug on Phil for another year.

I just thought some of you should know......me, DawgyLama,Jules,Overtoad,337 have made a bid to Mr.Lerner on buying the Browns.....if interested in a job w/the Browns....contact one of us,since Mr.Lerner wants to comment on the Browns from somewhere in Europe watching "his"other "football"team............. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Not tough questions at all:

NEW COACH- 3rd one in eight years. You can't keep replacing the man in the headset and expect to have any continuity. Without continuity, the franchise will NEVER be successful ever again. See you again in 2007 RAC.

NEW GM- He has a plan he is building on here...it may not seem apparent to all on the outside looking in, and many don't have the patience required due to our situation of being an expansion team and then having to blow that team up and start over. Again, continuity comes into play here a great deal.
Did he overpay for Shaffer as OT stated? Probably, but the buyer will pay what the market will bear. Teams overpay for LTs all the time.....See you again in 2007 Phil.

NEW QB- Like it or not, he can't be fully evaluated without an adequate OL in front of him. People are too quick to want to throw the baby out with the bath water....See you again in 2007 Charlie, and thank God you're still alive. (thus far)

NEW OL- It sucks ass pretty much like the old ones have. Hopefully, we have Bentley back at some point and we pick up a G and draft a T in one of the first 2 rounds. This is and has been our downfall since our return......everyone likes to cry about Rac, Carthon, Charlie etc, but the success of an O starts and ends with the fat boys up front.