DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum AFC North rankings offense/defense and PFF rates o-lines

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If TRich was who we thought he'd be, we'd be sitting pretty right now and probably wouldn't have to tear this thing down....

I confess I have some resentment towards TRich for that last fact alone....

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Remember...you heard it here folks.

Heckert is going to be fired and the entire FO, coaching staff, and players are going to be shown the door...because of Trent Richardson.

That's so rich it has GOT to be fattening.

And just for the record, this website...footbaloutsiders... says we rank 7th in pass-blocking and 20th in run-blocking with a rank of 30th in Power run-blocking.

Anyone can cherry-pick stats...

Sorry for the interruption. Carry on...

TOAD...

look, i don't think TRich is a bum, but how on earth can you (or any other Browns fan) be so enamoured with him at this point? he has not lived up to his reputation to date. his hesitation in the backfield is obvious, even to me. and he goes down fairly easily.

maybe it's the injury, maybe it's the runblocking, maybe he's just average. i don't think anyone can know until it plays out. personally, i think he'll be at least a good RB, but every week i lose more hope that he'll ever be the elite (top 1-2) back we thought he'd be.

I was hoping TRich would be a little better this year but he had a few things going against him...

poor run blocking.... injuries... and he's a rookie... he's had a decent year... should be well over 1000 yards with missing 2 games and then doing basically nothing in the Indy game...

I think he'll cont to improve... don't think he's horrible, but was hoping for a little more this year.

I kind of agree with you but I've seen holes that weren't hit just like I've seen WR's open that weren't hit.

I agree our run blocking isn't very good, but there have been oppertunities missed. However, I do expect that to some degree from a rookie.

I don't believe there's really anything to worry about as experience and hopefully some improvement/help in the run blocking phase, combined with TRich getting more experienced will most certainly help this situation.

I agree.. I think he'll improve.. I'm not worried about TRich...

I'm not professing his immortality. His learning curve and injuries have played a role, but so has the ineffective blocking of the line, so don't mistake calling out lunacy for professing greatness.

The vast majority of posters recognize he's still doing solid work while also noting he hasn't been perfect. But there's only one poster who is so crazed as to blame the downfall of the current regime on a rookie running back who projects the following numbers:

1100 yards rushing
59 catches for 450 yards receiving
for a combined total of 1550 yards
10 TD's


Look at the history of rookie RB's, then tell me that Richardson is to blame if Heckert loses his job.

Man Toad, you've reached rock bottom

Half a dozen smileys and a quote sig?

Anyway, even homers can see that the OL has progressed tremendously over the season, yet TRich's ypc has even regressed.

It comes down to this: If he's hurt, don't play him...if he's not hurt enough to not play him, then he can be criticized for his play

I'm not defending Mr.Toad or anything but I know this...Richardson didn't forget how to play RB over night.
Put Richardson in the 49ers or Texans backfield. I bet he averages more than 4.0 YPC.
I'd like to find out how much of a difference it is when Richardson runs out of a single back set and with a lead FB.
The play of the o-line has improve from 2011,but I yet to see the Browns run game
completely take over a defense and just wear it out physically.
I've seen glimpses at best.
The Browns are struggling the power run game.
The Browns have the 4th offensive line in the AFC North.
and the kicker is,its been the healthiest o-line in the North all year.
The Steelers and Bengals have been hit by injuries.

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It comes down to this: If he's hurt, don't play him...if he's not hurt enough to not play him, then he can be criticized for his play

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Let's just cut out all the bull, shall we?

You aren't being critical of Richardson. You're conducting a smear campaign. If you're going to go that far, someone is going to call you on your BS.

That sig is there to remind you and everyone else of exactly where you stand on this. You like to thump your chest and tell other posters that they should stand behind their words or stand for something. Well, be a man, take your own advice, and take ownership of your own words.

Or admit what you're really doing and I'll remove it.

There's reason to offer criticism of Richardson, but your hypocrisy goes way beyond that. That meek little response you just made is barely short of a white-flag being raised because you know you blew it.

You've acknowledged your alone in this crusade. You should just back it off lest you say more things which you'll be held accountable for.

I don't believe, in the history of all my time on this board and the other, that I've seen someone actually say that one rookie RB who is on pace to contribute more than most rookie RB's in the history of the game, all the while doing it while carrying various injuries, missing training camp, and going behind a poor run-blocking line, is to blame for the downfall of an entire regime.

But you did.

Finally got to watch last week's short cuts. Hardesty's snaps came mostly against 8 in the box, including that big run he ripped off on his first carry. Maybe he is most effective with limited carries to stay fresh, I don't know, but it's hard to believe the line consistently blocks better for Montario than for Trent.

Richardson has been a terrific receiver out of the backfield, but has been pretty disappointing to me running the ball. I had him as my #4 prospect for the browns, so it's not like I have some agenda against him, he just really hasn't been that good.

If Trent had tore it up this season AP/CJ style, it would of been a hell of a lot easier on Weeden.

People want to compare him to Martin (which he loses) but DJs right. You also have to compare him to who he was drafted around.

There's a big drop off after the top 2 picks. Trent, Blackmon, Claiborne, etc have all under performed.

Can Trent turn it around? Why yes of course. But right now up to this point he hasn't shown his worth (4 draft picks)

Side note: I though that he never played in preseason was going to be to our advantage. He was ganna come out and shock the eagles and run all over them. Besides ONE run (the Kurt Coleman special) he was HORRIBLE in that game (yes oline is "partially" to blame. But still)

Again, I think that the rib and other injuries have robbed Richardson of much of his power.

He still has some of his speed, and can work well outside, but as far as "making" his own hole, he's not able to do that from the looks of things right now. He's not able to get up into the hole on 3rd and short and to push the pile for that extra yard that he needs.

Those stuffed runs add up over the course of the year. Instead of running once and picking up the 1st, we ran it on 3rd down quite often as well .... only to fail.

It's not all, or even mainly on the OL IMHO. They are getting their blocks, but Richardson hasn't always been able to explode into the hole for a positive gain. I think that some of his dancing has been protecting his ribs and other injuries. I do believe that he will be a much different, and better back next year as he gets healthy again.

If he's that hurt, he shouldn't be playing.

With all of the on-going issues concerning players health and safety, to keep marching out a hurt Trent does not make a whole lot of sense. I guess I'm more inclined to believe he may be sore but not exactly hurt to the point where it would impact his performance, otherwise, our medical staff is a bunch of idiots to approve him if he's hurt enough to negatively impact his performance.

They obviously feel that Trent at 70% is a better answer than anyone else at 100%.

So, let's risk further injury to a guy we've invested in because we think he's better?

We're 4-8, that's not what's going on here.

The fact is, as a Running back, Trent Richardson hasn't been good. THAT is what is going on here, not an injury.

Sure, he's probably hurting, but it's Week 14, everyone is hurting.

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The fact is, as a Running back, Trent Richardson hasn't been good. THAT is what is going on here, not an injury.

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He needs about 116 yds to break Jim Browns rookie record.....but yeah he's not playing good

I don't see what the heck your watching.

And TRich could do it in 13 games. Not that big of a difference.

I've already pointed out the difference.

Wait...You're telling me that TRich ISN'T the greatest running back in NFL history? Oh man....I guess he's trash and we should go back to the drawing board.

I swear some folks stack the deck against any player we get. lol If they aren't the GOAT from day one some folks get pissy.

Just a general reply from my viewpoint, but I'll address all of the players that we took in the draft in April (or July in Josh Gordon's case). I'll start with the picks as we selected them in order.

1. Trent Richardson: I'm not sure what people were expecting on a team that was 4-12 last year, but he's proven to be a competent runner with 8 TDs (7 rushing, 1 receiving). Barring injury, he's likely to break the 1000 yard mark and get double digit TDs. Was he worth the #3 overall pick? I didn't think so at the time and I still don't think so. I preferred to get Doug Martin (yeah, go look up the draft threads).

2. Brandon Weeden: I didn't think we needed to take a QB this high. He's made some very nice throws but more often he's made horrible throws. He's been racking up some huge yardage numbers, but his mistakes have been keeping other teams that shouldn't be in games, in those games. Was he worth the #22 overall pick? Not on your life.

3. Mitchell Schwartz: I didn't think we needed to take a RT this high in the draft but he's been shown to provide much better play at the spot than we had since the return in 1999. He's been able to provide good pass protection for Weeden on that side of the line and that's been a very good addition. Was he worth the #37 selection? Maybe. We'll have to monitor his progress as he develops. Overall, not a bad selection since he's doing a competent job.

4. John Hughes: I can't tell you how much I hated this selection when they made it. It left me scratching my head. I must say though that Mr. Hughes has been a very nice surprise. A very nice addition the strong DT corps of the Browns DL. This corps is probably the strongest in the entire NFL.

5. Travis Benjamin: After the Weeden, Schwartz, Hughes selections, all I could really do on this one was say, "Blah." I hated the Weeden pick, wanted other players (even at OT) than Schwartz and see my comments above about Hughes. He's not been much of a contributor on the Browns but he's likely to do the Browns return duties next season with Cribbs likely departure. His speed and acceleration may prove to be an asset here.

6. James-Michael Johnson: I thought it was a nice pick at the time. Due to missed time, it remains to be seen what his season turns out to be but I think he's a decent contributor on the whole, including some time on special teams.

7. Ryan Miller: Has anyone seen him? I was glad that the Browns addressed the interior of the OL, but waiting until the 5th round. And, has anyone seen Ryan Miller?

8. Emmanuel Acho: I thought this was a pretty decent pick and that he'd make a nice addition to the LB corps. Obviously, he's not played a snap all season due to injury.

9. Billy Winn: I loved this pick and was surprised that he was there to be gotten in the sixth round. Similar to John Hughes comments about contributions to the DT corps. Fantastic selection and incredible value as a compensatory pick in the sixth round. Wow!

10. Trevin Wade: I liked the pick. A pretty decent corner so late in the draft (compensatory 7th rounder) and good enough to spot start at this point. A very nice pick with a seventh round selection.

11. Brad Smelley: See Ryan Miller comments, OL contributions notwithstanding. Has there been a Brad Smelley sighting anywhere?

12. Josh Gordon (Supplemental Draft): I thought that we gave up way too much to draft him. I still think it was a lot to give up for him but considering the production that we've gotten out of our other 2nd round selections at the WR spot in recent memory - he's been a pleasant surprise. Considering where the Browns are slated to draft at this point (I think it's either 9th or 10th) and with so many teams which could fall 'ahead' of them, the Browns could conceivably draft towards the middle of the rounds.

To expound further, at present the following teams are either 4-8, 5-7, or 5-6-1 and could conceivably fall 'ahead' of the Browns in the draft order.

Arizona (4-8) faces Seattle, Detroit, Chicago and San Fran.
NY Jets (5-7) faces Jacksonville, Tennessee, San Diego, and Buffalo
New Orleans (5-7) faces NY Giants, Buccaneers, Cowboys, Panthers
Miami (5-7) faces San Fran, Jacksonville, Buffalo and New England.
Buffalo (5-7) faces St. Louis, Seattle, Miami and the NY Jets.
St. Louis (5-6-1) faces Buffalo, Minnesota, Buccaneers and Seattle.

Of course, we have a difficult schedule coming up with KC followed by 3 teams bucking for the playoffs or already there in Washington, Denver (already in), and Putzburgh.

I'm not the one who compared him to Jim Brown.

If Richardson isn't going to cause himself further injury ... as can be the case in many instances .... then why wouldn;t we play him?

Yards per carry is the important stat. Citing total yards is pretty meaningless.

The problem here is that Hardesty is blowing T-Rich away when it comes to the eyeball test. I see no reason Hardesty shouldn't get more carries considering he was also a high investment. 2nd round should be producing a starter in this situation.

Why play a guy with a fairly severe rib injury, coming off two knee surgeries, when you have a perfectly healthy backup getting a better YPC?

I won't make a fuss. And maybe there is a "the starter is the starter" mentality like with quarterbacks. But I suspect we would be doing somewhat better with Hardesty as the starter.

Hardesty as the starter/feature back would mean he would be expected to block and catch passes, two things he's shown to not be very good at doing.

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We must also look at the defensive sets that each are playing against.

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Hardesty's first run against Oakland, on 2nd and 1, came against 8 in the box, and went for 19 yards. His other 4 carries went for 4, 13, 3, and 0 yards, and occurred on 1st, 2nd, 1st, and 1st down. More than one other of those (in other words, more than half of his) runs came against 8 in the box, as well.

Dunno - but perhaps by "severe rib injury", he simply meant painful rib injury.

Rib injuries generally are very painful for just a Joe/Jane Blow that sits at a desk, let alone someone that gets hit in the ribs like a running back could/does.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/10/cleveland_browns_running_back_28.html

Rib cartilage injury, as in torn cartilage in the rib cage. I've had it - very painful, and very slow to heal.

I said severe because of this:

“The injury I have is much bigger than what folks think it is, and I don’t want to do anything to hurt the team,” Richardson said. “I’m not myself out there right now. You look at me, I guess I’m not running hard like I’m used to, so I’m not out there right now. So it is worse than what people think it is.”

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I said two knee surgeries because I forgot the first one was also just a scope. Prior to his week 8 (?) rib injury, he was still not looking how he did at Bama. So it can't really just be the ribs right now causing the problem. He seems slower, like must guys do their first season after a knee surgery.

I mention this with very little seriousness. What is the deal with Richardson's cartilage? That would be a strange problem to have throughout a career, constant cartilage problems (knee scopes and rib cartilage injuries).