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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
Oh, I'd keep my son, but I'd absolutely stop enabling him by no longer buying into his lines of BS and wait for him to SHOW ME that he's different, that he has turned himself around, and that he has EARNED my support. Depending upon how wrecked up he is, that could well (easily) mean that he'd no longer be welcome in my house, even for short visits.
Affection and support cannot be taken for granted.... no matter how thick blood is.
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 12/11/12 05:18 PM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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...I may not pay to attend any games. I may curtail or simply cut off my Browns purchases. But I guarantee, I will NOT quit following the Browns because of some front office decisions, or some player decisions. Guess it's just me - that's how I am. The Browns are MY team.
+1
If I haven't quit yet, why would I quit now?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'm of the mindset that nothing can be worse than the last 12 years of crap I've put up with. I still go crazy and yell when the Browns make a good play. That will never change.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Hey Arch, I agree. I've been a Browns Fan since '67. And I think sometimes "Well if they blow it up, then I'm done, But I don't think I can. I mean It seems to me that I was always happy, win or lose, thru all the years, Now since we've been back, and I have a computer and started following everything, I sometimes feel like I was happier when I was just reading about the Browns in the paper. I mean I knew who the coach was and all the starters and even some of the back-ups. But now it's like you know EVERYTHING. Which I don't think is such a good thing. It seems I was content just watching us play and rooting for the Team. Now it's like we know everything about not just the players but the FO to. Maybe cause I'm older now, but it does seem to me that yesteryears was a whole lot simpler. Wish I could go back to just enjoying the Browns and not think about all the FO or even who owns 'em. Just Go Browns!
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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I'm of the mindset that nothing can be worse than the last 12 years of crap I've put up with. I still go crazy and yell when the Browns make a good play. That will never change.
Don't put that challenge out there into the eather or Vick will be playing QB for us with Tebow as a back up, Lombardi acting as GM (god his drafts were Kokonis bad), and Chip Kelly trying to turn us into a college team.  
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Legend
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Quote:
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
Oh, I'd keep my son, but I'd absolutely stop enabling him by no longer buying into his lines of BS and wait for him to SHOW ME that he's different, that he has turned himself around, and that he has EARNED my support. Depending upon how wrecked up he is, that could well (easily) mean that he'd no longer be welcome in my house, even for short visits.
Affection and support cannot be taken for granted.... no matter how thick blood is.
So you'd be a bandwagon parent.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
Oh, I'd keep my son, but I'd absolutely stop enabling him by no longer buying into his lines of BS and wait for him to SHOW ME that he's different, that he has turned himself around, and that he has EARNED my support. Depending upon how wrecked up he is, that could well (easily) mean that he'd no longer be welcome in my house, even for short visits.
Affection and support cannot be taken for granted.... no matter how thick blood is.
So you'd be a bandwagon parent.
If you want to call me that, fine. I don't care.
I tend to view it as a parent that won't take crap from his kid and expects him to grow up and stop being a douche.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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normally im one of the people to say step away from the ledge but in this case I agree. Ive seen this team go down this path more then once and the last time Ive seen us with a team and coach that had it all together.......we moved the team.
This is really my last go round if Banner does what I think hes going to do, the Browns wont get 1 more cent of my money.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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It's not about kids.
It's about being there and watching the team become a champion.
But if you want to ignore it until there good. And then come in and celebrate when they're good. That's cool...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c
Call me crazy - but the Browns are my team - have been since I can remember watching football. (39 years or so)
Only time I haven't watched them on Sundays (aside from the occassional glitch in my schedule) was when we didn't have a team. I also didn't watch any regular season games in those 3 years. I did tune in for a playoff game or 2, and of course, the super bowl - but I had no interest in the other teams.
I am a Browns fan - come hell or high water - I watch the Browns. Heck, as it is, I watch the Browns now - I don't watch other games, other than a quarter here or there. Monday night games? I don't care. Sunday late games? I don't care.....
I watch the Browns, that's it. If they blow it up and start over, I'll be watching the Browns.
Now, with that said, I may not pay to attend any games. I may curtail or simply cut off my Browns purchases. But I guarantee, I will NOT quit following the Browns because of some front office decisions, or some player decisions. Guess it's just me - that's how I am. The Browns are MY team.
+1
The only caveat is that I really like Heckert and do not want to the Browns to lose him. I could care less about Shurmur (who has been better recently but is still below average). The one thing is nice is that the Browns should be an attractive place to coach because of the youth. Regardless like you Arch I will always root for the Browns.
Edit: I want to add I think the Vick hate is misguided if you want to argue he may not be an upgrade that's fine but this whole dog killing thing should be over with. He paid his debts to society, has done charity work, and seems to have turned his life around. It's irrational to to continue to hate this guy when this team had a person who killed someone on the team.
Last edited by Loki; 12/12/12 12:33 AM.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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I think I kind of see both you and Arches viewpoint. Maybe people would call me a fence straddler on this, but I think I would be a combination of both of your views to some extent. Take this year..... I went to one pre-season game with my grandson. I probably spendt $300.00 to $400.00 on Browns gear on myself and as gifts. Now if such a blow up happens, I have enough Browns gear to last at least one decade if I wore Browns gear every day! I went to my first Browns game 48 years ago. I could never root for or be the fan of any other NFL team and I do love the sport. So while I would still be a Browns fan, root for the Browns and wear the colors, I would no longer financialy support this team. I liken that to having such a son as you both described, loving him, rooting for him to do well, but not enabling him with anything monitary. Haslam bought the Browns as an investment and the only real way to send him a message is through your $$$$. I mean Art Modell fired Paul Brown and I remained a fan. Testicleverdi was brought in and Bernie sent packing. Art moved the team. I've lived through a lot while being a Browns fan. But I actually root for the "team". The guys on the field. The players brought in to represent the Browns. And none of what Art did was the fault of the players. Just like nothing Haslam/Banner would do would be the fault of the players. So that would be my personal solution. Be there in spirit, but not in wallet. And just to throw out a conspiracy theory........  What if they purposely want to PO the fan base into turning their backs on this team to give them the perfect excuse to move to L.A.?  
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
You never give up or stop rooting for your son... but at some point, you stop supporting the bad habit, believing the lie of 'this time it will be better', and being an enabler....
Can you honestly say you've never felt like that about the Browns? I've been a Browns fan for close to 40 years and I've bought countless jerseys, coats, hats, etc. I've been to quite a few games, though not as many as most people who live close, I've paid for the ticket, I've left my family for 4 hours many Sundays to go to a remote bar to watch when I didn't have the ticket... and for what? A bunch of rich men are getting richer off of my money and I get what in return exactly? For close to 2 decades I get a couple months of unwarranted optimism followed by 10 months of ice cold reality pretty much every year...
We all have our own perspective, those who live closer to Cleveland have a perspective, those of us who live in other markets have different perspectives. I'm not surrounded by Browns fans, I live in an area that has seen tremendous influx of people over the last decade from all over, I'm surrounded by Steeler fans and Patriot fans and Cowboy fans and Redskin fans and Giants fans and Bears fans... and I'm sort of tired of wearing a Browns hat or sweatshirt and being met with laughs, smirks or outright sympathy from fans of almost every other NFL team... teams that have actually won something or at least competed to win something in the last 20 years...
We are on the verge of being pretty good, I believe.... and if we blow it up in the name of satisfying a couple egos, then I'm not sure I want to give another dime or another moment of my time to watch them try to rebuild something that wasn't broken in the first place...
I'll never root for anybody else, that's not even a consideration... I'll just consider myself a much less interested Browns fan.... and if they actually do get good, it's hard to say whether I will regain the passion that I've carried for so long, I guess I might try.... and if that makes me a bandwagon jumper or a fair weather fan, then so be it.
yebat' Putin
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I've just been a Browns fan for so long (I'm 40, so it's well over 30 years) that I can't imagine NOT being a Browns fan. I'd never root for another team, but my interest might wane as well. In the end, it's the Browns or nothing for me, and so far they haven't pushed me to nothing. (Of course with the exception of when satan moved the team to Balt.) It's the only time in my life that I didn't have a favorite team to root for, and it just didn't feel right.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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If McDaniels wants to switch the defense to a 3-4 there is NO WAY I want him here. You do not mess with things when they are working.. That seems like a pretty simple rule that gets disobeyed sometimes in the NFL. We need to keep Jauron on board at all costs.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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I hear everyone starting to talk about Saban making the jump once again to the NFL and I am a bit intrigued by that thought for the same reasons you are with Josh MacDaniels. Although at the end of the day I would rather keep Heckert and hire another coach if that is what we must do.Saban would probably want control of the 53 man roster which is what Banner would seem to prefer. Would that not make the GM, whoever it is, pretty much irrelevant?
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I hear everyone starting to talk about Saban making the jump once again to the NFL and I am a bit intrigued by that thought for the same reasons you are with Josh MacDaniels. Although at the end of the day I would rather keep Heckert and hire another coach if that is what we must do.Saban would probably want control of the 53 man roster which is what Banner would seem to prefer. Would that not make the GM, whoever it is, pretty much irrelevant?
I think the only reason Banner wants that is because his only football success has been with a team that did it that way.
that's why I think that our next coach will be Reid.
To me, that means that Heckert is gone and personally, as much respect that I have for Reid, I think he's done. he needs to sit down, relax, get over the death of his son. He needs to give himself time to heal.
Maybe in a year or two, he can come back. He's a tough guy, so he'll never admit it, but I really think that's part of the problem with the eagles. Well, that and injuries.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Edit: I want to add I think the Vick hate is misguided if you want to argue he may not be an upgrade that's fine but this whole dog killing thing should be over with. He paid his debts to society, has done charity work, and seems to have turned his life around. It's irrational to to continue to hate this guy when this team had a person who killed someone on the team.
OK... he's not an upgrade. Period. That was easy.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Legend
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Edit: I want to add I think the Vick hate is misguided if you want to argue he may not be an upgrade that's fine but this whole dog killing thing should be over with. He paid his debts to society, has done charity work, and seems to have turned his life around. It's irrational to to continue to hate this guy when this team had a person who killed someone on the team.
OK... he's not an upgrade. Period. That was easy.
He did do a lot of charity work though... every Sunday this fall he was giving away footballs to almost anybody that wanted one.
yebat' Putin
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All Pro
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If anyone in my relationship with the browns is more akin to an alcoholic ... It is I, the fan.
Blindy believing I don't have a problem, that this time will be different, that I can stop caring anytime I want.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg) When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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He did do a lot of charity work though... every Sunday this fall he was giving away footballs to almost anybody that wanted one.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Quote:
I hear everyone starting to talk about Saban making the jump once again to the NFL and I am a bit intrigued by that thought for the same reasons you are with Josh MacDaniels. Although at the end of the day I would rather keep Heckert and hire another coach if that is what we must do.Saban would probably want control of the 53 man roster which is what Banner would seem to prefer. Would that not make the GM, whoever it is, pretty much irrelevant?
I don't think Saban fits the mold of what these guys want ... I believe he's in his 60s and these guys want a young up and comer that can be here a long time. Furthermore, I think with Saban there is a much more likelihood of a switch to a 3-4.
Does anybody remember what McDaniels ran on D while in Denver? Was it the 3-4? I think McDaniels ... with being an offensive guy and all ... could be more flexible on the type of D but that's just a guess.
I do believe McDaniels will squeeze every ounce of talent out of this offense that he can. And if he turns out to be our Bellyache, he's young enough that he can be here for a long time.
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You are right Saban is 61. Youth is definately on the side of Mc Daniels. I just have trouble getting past him taking Tebow in the first round.
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Do you think after the issues in Philly between Reid and Banner that they would be willing to work together again? Unless all of the hype about the power struggle was totsally over blown by the media.
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If I was hiring a head coach this season, it would be Bruce Arians.
I have to laugh when CBS Sports says that Arians should be on someone's short list for Head Coach. Quite frankly the guy should be Coach of the year for the job he has done this year. He's be excellent in handling a very difficult situation, and getting far, far more out of that Colts team than almost anyone thought possible. He has done a better job as "interim" head coach than anyone else has done ah head coach.
As far as his qualifications, the man knows how to develop QBs. He has shown that he understands how to be involved with the team overall without nosing in on the defense and such. In short, he has shown that he understands the role of a head coach. I think that he'll be a great head coach somewhere.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Does anybody remember what McDaniels ran on D while in Denver?
Not just McDaniels, everyone ran on their D while he was in Denver.
#GMSTRONG
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