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http://www.katu.com/news/local/Shooting-Clackamas-Town-Center-183077691.htmlShooting reported at Clackamas Town Center By KATU.com Staff Published: Dec 11, 2012 at 3:46 PM PST Last Updated: Dec 11, 2012 at 4:15 PM PST 44 comments print email Shooting reported at Clackamas Town Center CLACKAMAS, Ore. – Somebody fired dozens of shots in the food court at Clackamas Town Center on Tuesday afternoon, according to witnesses. KATU reporter Anna Canzano said her husband, Oregonian sports columnist John Canzano, was in pulling up to the mall when the shooting happened. He said people reported hearing around 60 shots from the food court. The sheriff's department sent out a short notice saying there is an "active shooting call" at the mall. A man named Sam said he was at the mall shopping at GameStop when the shooting happened. He saw "a bunch of people were screaming and running by and kind of in a panic and they were yelling that there was a shooting." Canzano reported seeing people at the mall crying and distraught as police officers swarmed the mall. It’s not clear if anybody was hit or who the shooter is. The shooting happened around 3:20 p.m.
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What in the hell is wrong with people  Time to go back to whipping kids ass when they get out of line. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Fox reporting he was in camo, body armor with a white mask and maybe had an AR-15.
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What in the hell is wrong with people Time to go back to whipping kids ass when they get out of line.
Clearly...If only someone had taken the time to give all those killers and rapists a good ass beating as children, then all would be well.
Someone call CNN, GM is on to something here...
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Less than 5 miles from me. Just shopped there late last week. Yikes!
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Quote:
Fox reporting he was in camo, body armor with a white mask and maybe had an AR-15.
Maybe it's because I'm 60 years old and I don't find video games all that cool, but to me, this sounds a lot like these kids playing video games, when they shoot someone in a video game, nobody really dies.. is it that they some how get twisted into believing that shooting live rounds in a mall won't result in deaths?
I mean it almost sounds like the next logical step to shoot real bullets at real people..
What a damn shame.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Maybe it's because I'm 60 years old and I don't find video games all that cool, but to me, this sounds a lot like these kids playing video games, when they shoot someone in a video game, nobody really dies.. is it that they some how get twisted into believing that shooting live rounds in a mall won't result in deaths?
YES!1
Of Course, its video games that causes this stuff. Here I thought it was the lack of ass-beatings among disobedient children. I didn't even think about video games, that has to be it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Don't forget rock and roll.
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Portland
do you have the scanner link on at the top of the page.
They are now saying that there is a second person who helped who went back to an apartment bldg close by. The helper is supposed to be a 17 yr old.
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It's all over the news out here.
Two dead. Sad.
Last edited by PortlandDawg; 12/11/12 10:27 PM.
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Shooter has been 'neutralized' according to reports.
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Sad, but mostly I'm happy it was nobody I knew.
Count your blessings where you can find them.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
Fox reporting he was in camo, body armor with a white mask and maybe had an AR-15.
Maybe it's because I'm 60 years old and I don't find video games all that cool, but to me, this sounds a lot like these kids playing video games, when they shoot someone in a video game, nobody really dies.. is it that they some how get twisted into believing that shooting live rounds in a mall won't result in deaths?
I mean it almost sounds like the next logical step to shoot real bullets at real people..
What a damn shame.
No more than Friday the 13th or Halloween mad us go out and slash people with maschetes. It's about teaching your kids right from wrong, and values. When you don't they have no concern for other peoples rights or lives. Then add in other things like drugs, mental, physical or secual abuse, mental instability, prescription drigs as a cure for everything wrong with someone, and you have a whole sect of society living on the edge just waiting for a reason.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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+1
Blaming video games is just lazy.
Remember the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre back in 1984? James Huberty used a 9 mm Uzi semi-automatic, a Winchester pump-action 12-gauge shotgun, and a 9 mm Browning HP to kill 21 people and wounding 19 others. Was Halo or Call of Duty the reason? Was Pac-man at fault?
Some people are just messed up, want to take revenge on random people and want their name in lights.
Prayers go out to the families.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
Some people are just messed up, want to take revenge on random people and want their name in lights.
Yes. I disagree with the video games/violent movies/music theories behind these mass killings. I was a Looney Toons fan as a kid, and I don't recall dropping an anvil on anyone. Not even once. I've never even owned an anvil.
Sick, twisted scumbags are just sick, twisted scumbags.
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Prayers go out to the families.
Exactly 
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Jc It has nothing to do with games or media. They are either mentally ill or sociopaths that have intense hate for society.
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What a tragedy.
I wonder what happens with people like this. They must crack somewhere. I said it belore, and I'll say it again ..... It's almost enough to truly make me believe in demons.
My thoughts and prayers go out to those impacted by this horror.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think it is video games, bad parenting, life becoming less valuable ,violence being extoled as a virtue , global warming, aderol , etc... Sometimes people are just no damn good . We want so badly to find a place to assign blame where it doesn't belong.
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I think we should embrace the polytheistic society's of past ages. Wouldn't it be great to have a god to blame all this on?
#GMSTRONG
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Put hoods over their faces and do not announce their names.
Mike them for audio so we can hear them sobbing and blubbering as they are walked up the gallows steps, on nationwide TV.
Put a noose around their necks and pull the lever. Bury them in an unmarked grave. OR, chop them up for dog food.
Do this as soon as possible after capture. Like less than a week.
Anybody ever give serious consideration to why it is that nobody ever hijacked a Russian airliner? They would have followed something like the above procedure.
Remember the Chechnian hostage takers? They are all dead, and nobody heard their "demands".
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Less than 5 miles from me. Just shopped there late last week. Yikes!
glad you were not there at the time. i hope everyone you know is safe.
#gmstrong
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A close friend had left the mall about 20 minutes prior to the shooting. That's as close as anyone I know got to the chaos. That's close enough for me.
Days like that make me glad I'm a homebody. I very rarely go to the movies, clubs, malls, retail stores of most kinds... If I'm going to be shot by a crazy person they'll have to come to my door (which will lead to bad things for them) or kill me while I'm at the BrownsBacker bar, grocery shopping, fishing, or skiing. I don't leave my home for much else.
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+1
Blaming video games is just lazy.
Remember the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre back in 1984? James Huberty used a 9 mm Uzi semi-automatic, a Winchester pump-action 12-gauge shotgun, and a 9 mm Browning HP to kill 21 people and wounding 19 others. Was Halo or Call of Duty the reason? Was Pac-man at fault?
Some people are just messed up, want to take revenge on random people and want their name in lights.
Prayers go out to the families.
Totally agree. I think what people don't realize is that it's the other way around. Video games don't create these monsters. These monsters have an interest in these video games.
If Call of Duty or GTA or whatever title you want to name didn't exist, people would still commit these horrible crimes.
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A friend of a friend is one of the dead. Sad. All the rest I've heard is that a 15 year old girl is one of the survivors. Nothing else, but then again I'm on the west side of Portland and was at work...
I don't know what gets into people, if you're in that bad of a situation/mindset - just kill yourself and get it over with, don't take others with you. I just wish the media would not "glamorize" these things. Don't even publish the name of the killer...honor the impacted and dead, move on. Unfortunately that isn't the way the media works...
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Quote:
+1
Blaming video games is just lazy.
Remember the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre back in 1984? James Huberty used a 9 mm Uzi semi-automatic, a Winchester pump-action 12-gauge shotgun, and a 9 mm Browning HP to kill 21 people and wounding 19 others. Was Halo or Call of Duty the reason? Was Pac-man at fault?
Some people are just messed up, want to take revenge on random people and want their name in lights.
Prayers go out to the families.
First off, I didn't blame Video games,,, But I do wonder if people, especially kids who are impressionable to begin with, are at all affected by what they see in those games.
It's kinda like when someone comes on here and is mad as hell at a player because they picked them in their fantasy league and that week the player didn't light it up. How rational is that thinking when applied to the real world? Answer, not rational at all.
that was my point.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Daman, it's just easier to call you a nutjob and then give unrealistic analogies than to consider the possibility that the cumulative effect of 24 hour a day visual/electronic stimulation, desensitization to death through movies and video games, cyber bullying, the disintegration of the nuclear family, live and real time front line war coverage, and a whole host of other things that weren't available or weren't a big problem 30 years ago might possibly be having a negative effect on young people and making them more prone to violence, depression, suicide, etc......
yebat' Putin
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Daman, it's just easier to call you a nutjob
It sure is! 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Daman, it's just easier to call you a nutjob and then give unrealistic analogies than to consider the possibility that the cumulative effect of 24 hour a day visual/electronic stimulation, desensitization to death through movies and video games, cyber bullying, the disintegration of the nuclear family, live and real time front line war coverage, and a whole host of other things that weren't available or weren't a big problem 30 years ago might possibly be having a negative effect on young people and making them more prone to violence, depression, suicide, etc......
I really wish I'd said that.. Thanks
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
+1
Blaming video games is just lazy.
Remember the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre back in 1984? James Huberty used a 9 mm Uzi semi-automatic, a Winchester pump-action 12-gauge shotgun, and a 9 mm Browning HP to kill 21 people and wounding 19 others. Was Halo or Call of Duty the reason? Was Pac-man at fault?
Some people are just messed up, want to take revenge on random people and want their name in lights.
Prayers go out to the families.
First off, I didn't blame Video games,,, But I do wonder if people, especially kids who are impressionable to begin with, are at all affected by what they see in those games.
It's kinda like when someone comes on here and is mad as hell at a player because they picked them in their fantasy league and that week the player didn't light it up. How rational is that thinking when applied to the real world? Answer, not rational at tall.
that was my point.
As someone who has played a loooooooot of video games, including violent ones, I am more qualified to talk about it than you or DC. It does not cause violence. I have never even so far as punched or slapped someone out of anger. Violence is the excrement of frustration. It's a last resort when someone doesn't know how to deal with what they don't like in their lives. He may have known what an AR-15 is because of video games. He mayhave thought to use combat armor because of video games, but he didn't decide he had to kill because of video games.
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I think it is funny how fast people will blame video games and violence on tv/movies when it comes to these spree shooters--and its funnier b/c often, these are the same people that have a fit when politicians blame firearms for these violent attacks. Its not the guns fault--but it is the video game guns fault... In reality, we need to read the second epilogue from Tolstoy's War and Peace, Which can be found here, though you have to scroll to the second epilogue. And upon reading that, you should realize that he summed it up very cleverly, and points out that you can't accurately blame anything in particular as the cause of events. In reality, the causes are the result of an infinitesimal amount of choices, happenings, and occurrences that can never be deduced to one or even a few particular things...
Last edited by Tyler_Derden; 12/12/12 08:31 PM.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
As someone who has played a loooooooot of video games, including violent ones, I am more qualified to talk about it than you or DC. It does not cause violence. I have never even so far as punched or slapped someone out of anger.
Oh, well that is obviously conclusive proof that cultural and technological changes over the decades are not affecting kids in negative ways because you play video games and are not violent... thank God that's settled.
Come to think of it, on multiple occasions I got really drunk in college and drove home without causing an accident or hurting anybody... therefore this whole don't drink and drive campaign must be a total sham...
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but he didn't decide he had to kill because of video games.
Why do people take something as complex and relatively not understood as the human mind and try to draw straight line conclusions about how and why it does things and how various things affect it? Nobody is saying this guy got up one day and said, "You know, I'm a perfectly well adjusted young man but in those video games I get to kill lots of people so I'm going to go out and try it on real people... good thing I have this AR-15 here for just such an occasion." That would be stupid... but for you to conclude unequivocally that extensive video gaming doesn't play any part in shaping the thought patterns of people then I feel that is fairly naive.....
Take abused children for example, two brothers can go through very similarly abusive childhoods, one might grow up to become like Mother Teresa who couldn't hurt a fly and devotes their lives to helping people, the other might go on to abuse their own children... it's not uncommon to see those kinds of polar opposite responses to situations... and nobody really understands why it happens... yet you, because you aren't violent, have determined that violent video games can't possibly contribute to violent outbursts in others....
yebat' Putin
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Study after study shows access to pornography has lowered rape occurances by a ridiculous amount. I imagine video games have a similar function in society. Perhaps not as much in mega-shootings, but I bet day to day violence is down. I don't really care either way 
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Whatever the cause, it's a damn tragedy, Prayer to the families ththat have to suffer through this ordeal.
LET'S GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/OldSixty-Two/new0400001.jpg) [b]WOOF WOOF[b]
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As someone who has played a loooooooot of video games, including violent ones, I am more qualified to talk about it than you or DC.
Really,, are you really going to tell me you are more qualified to talk about video games? Geez, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
People living in an alternate reality.. You like Video games, at least it appears that way. Great. Good for you. Doesn't make you any more or less qualified then me when it comes to simple speculation about whether or not they may be the root of some of the stuff we've seen.
Did you see the picture on TV this morning of the "KID" that did the shootings in oregon? He was a kid. Where did he get these ideas to go out, get a gun and start blowing people away? What caused that? Do you think he got the idea from watching reruns of Romper Room, Captain Kangaroo or Mr. Rogers?
Now, maybe it wasn't video games... But you certainly can't stand up in here and say for sure that it wasn't video games.
Because you play them A LOTTTTTTTTT.. doesn't give you a Phd. In child Physic.
What it does however is make me wonder how much of the real world you've had a chance to experience while you've been cooped up in your room playing video games..
I don't expect you too grasp that. you don't know what you don't know.. but you'll find out.. sooner or later, reality smacks you right in the face.
Playing video games will not prepare you for that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Come to think of it, on multiple occasions I got really drunk in college and drove home without causing an accident or hurting anybody... therefore this whole don't drink and drive campaign must be a total sham...
Not close to the same thing. I don't think you even really believe that's a good parallel. You participated in an activity dangerous to others but nobody got hurt. That doesn't make the activity not dangerous. The parallel would have been if I grabbed a gun and shot a whole bunch of rounds but nobody got hurt, then declaring that guns aren't dangerous.
Playing a video game is not a dangerous activity.
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, a first-person shooter game which I have never played and chose at random for this purpose, grossed $1 billion in sales in its first 16 days of release. That means around 17,000,000 copies of the game sold in just over the first two weeks of its availability. That is one game of many of this style which people blame for this kind of behavior.
COD: MW (1, 2, 3)
COD: Black Ops (1 & 2)
Battlefield: Bad Company (1 & 2)
Battlefield (2, 3, 1942, 1943)
Counterstrike
These are just a handful of games that have sold over 5 million copies each. You can be sure that there have been over 100,000,000 copies of games like this sold and played at length.
With so many things that go into a child's upbringing (attention from parents, relationship with parents, relationship with peers, natural talents, amount of stimulation/growth, physical trauma, emotional trauma, lessons on how to deal with disappointment, coping skills, on and on and on) and SO MANY people playing these games, it is literally statistically impossible to infer any significant correlation to these games as the motivation to go out and kill randomly.
It may seem to some like it happens a lot, and any number of times assuredly is too many times, but if video games even had a marginal influence in making people do these things, I'd have to say, we'd be seeing it a lot more than we do now. (For example, if video games had an influence of say 0.001% to cause this, it would have happened more than 1000 times in the last dozen years or so, and only among people who play this style of video game. If it's expanded to other types of video games, the occurrences would have to be more frequent.)
Yes, I do believe that having actually experienced the thing that is being discussed makes me more qualified to talk about its effects than people who don't... just as I'll gladly yield to your expertise on drunk driving, DC.
When bad things happen, people want to look for a reason why. Want to find someone to blame, something to point the finger at, so they feel can they can have some measure of control over it... or can separate themselves from its horror. They want to be able to (consciously or subconsciously) say "well, if we get rid of 'x', then I won't have to worry about myself when I go to the movies" or "that type of animal behavior is not something I'm capable of because I don't do 'x.'" Fact is, it's not realistic. People do screwed up things.
It's weird that when things like this are done by adults, it turns into a gun control debate, but when it's done by a young person it's about video games.
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Well at least we can blame video games for that one guy who killed a bunch of people by throwing fireballs and kicking turtle shells at them. I heard he'd eaten some mushrooms though.
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cleve, I appreciate your input, I really do... but you are still trying to draw a statistical equivalent between the number of kids playing violent video games and the number of mass shootings... therefore you are missing my point, maybe not somebody elses point, but my point. My point is that it affects people. You can't do something for 2, 3, 4 hours a day and NOT have it affect you in some way.. if you read and study that long, you get smarter, if you watch tv, you ingest all sorts of information based on what you watch, if you exercise that long you get in better shape, if you eat that long you get fat... every action has a consequence... so what is the consequence of playing hours and hours of violent video games? You will not convince me that there isn't one.... and I will also argue that it may not be the same in every person as the human mind is very elastic in how it interprets all of this information that we put into it... So are there more mass shootings now among teens than there used to be? Sure seems like it.... but beyond the mass shootings, what about instances of depression? What about the ability to function socially? What about teen suicide? What about having the ability to focus and concentrate on things that are not electronically stimulating? Quote:
When bad things happen, people want to look for a reason why.
Absolutely... primarily because they want to prevent them from happening again... see, that's what happened with drinking and driving, it wasn't hard to statistically and medically figure out that drinking impairs your reaction time, judgement, etc and drunk people get in more accidents... very easy to draw that straight line correlation... stop drunk driving, driving accidents and fatalities go down... simple.
What we are talking about is much more complicated because the human mind over a longer period of time is much more complicated than the almost immediate chemical reaction caused by drinking too much...
Ok, so a kid goes out and shoots up a mall or a theatre or a school or maybe he commits suicide... obviously something is wrong with him because this is totally irrational behavior... maybe it is as simple as an undetected and/or untreatable mental disorder... but I think we, as a society, are not only justified but we are obligated to ask the question, why? and keep asking it until you get to the bottom of it because the first answer is usually not the right answer. So a kid commits a violent act... why? Well he was depressed all of the time... why? Maybe because he didn't have any friends... why? Because he never did anything to make friends... why? Because he was always inside playing video games with his "virtual friends"... why? because his parents constantly ridiculed him and destroyed his self-esteem to actually go out and make real friends... So video games may not be the root cause, if you can identify one true root cause, but they are in the chain... maybe they are a cause, maybe they are a symptom but what role did they play in this one kids decision to commit a violent act..... these are the things I enjoy trying to figure out.
You gave a nice list of societal things that impact a kids state of mind and I agree with every single one of them... but you need to put video games on the list... especially if somebody plays them for hours and hours at a time.. You can't put "relationship with parents" on the list if the kid talks to his parents for 20 minutes a day but not put "video games" on the list if the kid does that for 3 hours a day.
My goal is not to blame video games or ban video games or blame guns or ban guns or any of that... my interest is in understanding how these outside influences affect people.... because I'm 100% certain that it does.
yebat' Putin
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