DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shaffer's numbers compared to ProBowl tackles

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They struggled because of that power play that was going on..
They struggled because of no continuity..
They struggled because they lacked talent..

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I don't know of a power struggle, it's just rumor as far as I know.. But the lack of Continuity in thought process and planning was evident as well as the lack of talent....

Hey,, Two outta three ain't bad!

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As for him being the the 25 to 32 LT in the league,, I don't think thats accurate either to be honest.. Yeah, to be sure, he had issues.. Some anyway. But to put him as the 25th or worse LT in the league...NOPE, ain't buying that one.

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I just couldn´t name 10 who are worse try it out...I do that with every position and now I know how valuable the word "average" is...I don´t use it inflationary anymore..."average" is not a bad thing for me anymore ...and Shaffer is far from average imho

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Man,, I guess I'm not agreeing with you at all today Django...LOL I think his contract was for either 6 or 7 years.. as far as how easy or hard or how expensive or inexpensive it would be to get out of,,, You got me!

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he is what he is a #25-#32 LT in the league...but still 1 year ago he was the best option because Shelton was the #35 LT

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I just couldn´t name 10 who are worse try it out

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.....let´s still say his SB was 8mil...after 2 seasons you can cut him and either eat up 4mil at once or spread it over 4-5 seasons

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Don't quote me on this, but I think (note, I said I THINK) that if you sign a guy and give him a signing bonus, it's spread over the entire duration of the contract. If you cut him before the contract has expired, I think you get hit all at once for the signing bonus. I THINK,, But I could be wrong about that.. I'm no CAPologist at all...

I think that when that happen, they call it DEAD MONEY against the CAP

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When you lack the "skill set" to play LT,who's beside you won't help your skill set. Ala Shaffer.

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Shaffer is a decent/good LT

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No, he's not. He's never been. He never will be.

Shaffer is a right tackle playing out of position. His feet are too damned slow and his technique too damned sloppy, and the vast majority of people that THINK Shaffer is pretty decent are the same people that thought LJ Shelton was pretty decent

FYI: Shelton was so bad in Miami that he was demoted to guard, supplanted by Damien Mcintosh, a guy who was a failed left tackle in San Diego, and then Shelton failed at guard. Mcintosh has subsequently been allowed to hit free agency. That tells people all they need to know about Shelton.

If people would go back and watch replays of game film, they'd see just how bad Necktie Shaffer really is, and we won't be a good offensive line until he's replaced. Hell, all people really need to know came right out of Savage's mouth. When talking about Shaffer, the best he could say was that he's our left tackle "for now." He's acknowledged that he's probably going to be moved, and you know what people? You don't move solid left tackles

Hell, read the thoughts around the league by writers. Many of them say that Shaffer has dissapointed.

Shaffer's numbers compared to ProBowl tackles...........the better comparison is Shaffer's numbers compared to other poor left tackles......

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ESPN
Thomas: He is exactly what the doctor ordered. A true left tackle like Thomas would make the Browns' offensive line better by leaps and bounds. Kevin Shaffer was a major disappointment after being signed to big money a year ago and has proven that he is not the ideal candidate to protect the Browns' quarterback's blind side. Thomas is that ideal candidate, but probably will be calling Detroit home after the Lions him up at No. 2.

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Yes, defenses attack the weakest area of your line, and so teams attacked our interior. So in that, Schaffer may have gotten a bit of a reprieve.

If we have indeed upgraded and made the interior stronger with Steinbach, Hank in his second season, and McKinney, then teams will continue to look for the weakest spot in the line. That could now be left/right tackle and Schaffer will find himself as the one being attacked more often than he has been up to now.

Why attack the left, or even the right tackle, when Druzzi and Coleman have been there for the taking? Now, defenses are going to look elsewhere besides the interior for a weak link in our line.

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Given that logic, along with "stats are useless", I guess then Joe Thomas probably isn't much good either.
think about it.

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Shaffer is a decent/good LT

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No, he's not. He's never been. He never will be.

Shaffer is a right tackle playing out of position. His feet are too damned slow and his technique too damned sloppy, and the vast majority of people that THINK Shaffer is pretty decent are the same people that thought LJ Shelton was pretty decent

FYI: Shelton was so bad in Miami that he was demoted to guard, supplanted by Damien Mcintosh, a guy who was a failed left tackle in San Diego, and then Shelton failed at guard.

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Some people STILL don't get it Toad.

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In your "eyes" what makes Thomas so good?
Just wondering what you use to judge him. Or should I say praise him.

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Quick feet, very quick feet. He bends at the knees and not at the waist, he's fast in his lateral movement

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In your "eyes" what makes Thomas so good?
Just wondering what you use to judge him. Or should I say praise him.

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He is "the complete package".

Footwork,upper body strength,leverage and hands,technique,it all there!

I've watched a LOT of LT's. It's pretty much "what I do". I have studied G and LT ever since 2000. That's how long we've needed an OL. Sure,I watch other positions,but most of the long time posters here can attest to the fact I'm a study of OL draft picks. And I plan to continue untill we actually draft an OL.
(And no Verse,I don't need you to tell them I suck at other talent evaluation)


And I've pimped "2" heavily! Marcus McNeill and Levi Jones. Neither were the top rated LT in their perspective draft classes. And why did I pimp LT's that WEREN'T at weren't at the top of their draft class? Because the top LT's were OVERRATED!


But not Thomas. He is the complete package. I see pro bowl potential out the ass! His technique is SO GOOD,people question his strength. But why use strength rather than technique? That's why LT's overextend,reach,and have trouble with speed rushers. Because they rely on strength rather than technique. And technique is the true measure of a LT.

All I can say is he is the first "top rated LT" in the draft that I've pimped for years. Because in reality,he is all that and a bag of chips or I certainly wouldn't advocate picking him at #3.

I'm a Browns fan first. I want what I feel is best for the Browns. And in my mind,in this draft,that describes Joe Thomas.

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What makes everyone think that Shaffer would be a better right tackle than a healthy Ryan Tucker? I personally believe that Shaffer should play right guard if Joe Thomas is drafted.

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Well,I really can't say for "sure" he would make a "better RT" than Tucker. But let's look at What Shaffer was doing before he came to Cleveland. He played LT for a left handed QB. Which is the equivilant of playing RT for a right handed QB.

You see,most D's send their speed rushers from the QB's blind side. You can look at Vick or Charlie and it's pretty obvious why they do that. Both of these QB's have pretty good feet. Yes,Vick has much BETTER feet,but in both cases,if a blitzer is coming towards them where they can see them coming they can avoid that blitzer.

However,you can't avoid a hit you can't see coming. So,in most cases,your speed rushers attack from the QB's blind side. So if you have a left handed QB,your RT handles the duty of protecting his blind side,not the LT. And vica versa for right handed QB's.

So Shaffer went from playing LT for a left handed QB,which is basicly the same skill set you need to play RT for a right handed QB. I mean if Shaffer had the ability to cover Vick's blind side and handle speed rushers,why wasn't he playing RT in Atlanta?

So from looking at his position and duties in Atlanta,his skill set would be better suited at RT for a right handed QB. Wheather he would be "better than Tucker" at it is debatable. But if you look at the age of these two players? It appears Shaffer has a longer career in front of him and the skill set for the position.

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I think that Tucker might be on his way out if he can not rebound from his mental illness. Than Shaffer can play the right side and Sowells could play guard. Despite what some people think I believe McKinney was signed to be a center/guard back up and he will not be starting.

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Well,I really can't say for "sure" he would make a "better RT" than Tucker. But let's look at What Shaffer was doing before he came to Cleveland. He played LT for a left handed QB. Which is the equivilant of playing RT for a right handed QB.

So from looking at his position and duties in Atlanta,his skill set would be better suited at RT for a right handed QB. Wheather he would be "better than Tucker" at it is debatable. But if you look at the age of these two players? It appears Shaffer has a longer career in front of him and the skill set for the position.

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I never said he would be better than Tucker?

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Also, Joe Thomas' interior linemen are probably the weakest link of Wisconsons Oline, so given everything that has been said on this thread, there would be no way of determining how good Thomas really is.

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Anyway, everyone is pumping Thomas, cutting down Shaffer but not using the same yardstick.

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I like Shaffer and I think he did us a great job last year.

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I think many of those who are "pimping Thomas and cutting down Shaffer" are using the yardstick of "each individual's skill set" rather than depending on "stats",

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In your "eyes" what makes Thomas so good?
Just wondering what you use to judge him. Or should I say praise him.

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He is "the complete package".

Footwork,upper body strength,leverage and hands,technique,it all there!

I've watched a LOT of LT's. It's pretty much "what I do". I have studied G and LT ever since 2000. That's how long we've needed an OL. Sure,I watch other positions,but most of the long time posters here can attest to the fact I'm a study of OL draft picks. And I plan to continue untill we actually draft an OL.
(And no Verse,I don't need you to tell them I suck at other talent evaluation)


And I've pimped "2" heavily! Marcus McNeill and Levi Jones. Neither were the top rated LT in their perspective draft classes. And why did I pimp LT's that WEREN'T at weren't at the top of their draft class? Because the top LT's were OVERRATED!


But not Thomas. He is the complete package. I see pro bowl potential out the ass! His technique is SO GOOD,people question his strength. But why use strength rather than technique? That's why LT's overextend,reach,and have trouble with speed rushers. Because they rely on strength rather than technique. And technique is the true measure of a LT.

All I can say is he is the first "top rated LT" in the draft that I've pimped for years. Because in reality,he is all that and a bag of chips or I certainly wouldn't advocate picking him at #3.

I'm a Browns fan first. I want what I feel is best for the Browns. And in my mind,in this draft,that describes Joe Thomas.

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How about all the QB hurries with Charlie getting hit after releasing the ball?

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....can Shaffer make that kind of switch over to RT? I haven't been able to get a clear answer to that.

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And what is better - Peterson or Quinn behind what we have now or Thomas and Lewis?

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I also don't get how people brag on Tucker. He gets beat quite often,

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Since you have watched OL for so long, please answer this....can Shaffer make that kind of switch over to RT? I haven't been able to get a clear answer to that.

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There are no "clear answers". You can look at the evidence before you and give an educated guess. Can you give me a "clear answer" as to wheather AP will be injury prone or not? Can you give me a "clear answer" as to wheather Quinn will develop into a "franchise QB"? No,because things simply aren't that cut and dry.

But here's what I can tell you. He does not have the skill set to be a solid NFL LT. At least not for a right handed QB. His skill set is much better suited to play RT. Can he make the change over? Indications are,yes he can. Is that a "clear cut answer"? No more than any other player in the NFL or the draft.

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And what is better - Peterson or Quinn behind what we have now or Thomas and Lewis?

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Were Mack and Byner great RB's? Was Kosar a great QB? Think about this. What was it that made Jim Brown great? Because he was. What about Leroy Kelly,Bobby Mitchell? My point is,you can be a successfull "team" without "SUPERSTARS" at every position with a solid OL and DL. They are the foundation of any teams success.

Barry Sanders was great. So how did that help the Lions from a "team" perspective again? I would rather have a good OL,because they can make a good RB look great. Obviously if Barry Sanders couldn't turn the Lions around,RB's won't help in the long haul. But they do make good highlight films.........................when you lose.


Bernie was given time. Mack and Byner were given holes to run through. Thusly success followed.

Ask those RB's who they owe much of their success to? They'll tell you Gene Hickerson and the offensive line. If they can't convince you,I doubt I can.

JMHO

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By the way, here's one quote that I just came across. Necktie a good left tackle? My foot:

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ESPN
Thomas: He is exactly what the doctor ordered. A true left tackle like Thomas would make the Browns' offensive line better by leaps and bounds. Kevin Shaffer was a major disappointment after being signed to big money a year ago and has proven that he is not the ideal candidate to protect the Browns' quarterback's blind side. Thomas is that ideal candidate, but probably will be calling Detroit home after the Lions him up at No. 2.

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As for him being the the 25 to 32 LT in the league,,

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I think he should be a Right tackle as well, but I don't think Shaffer is as bad as Andruzzi made him look.

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Well,I'm not ready to debate you on the topic as I dont really "completly" disagree with you.


But what do you base that opinion on? I mean,Shaffer never protected an NFL's QB's blind side before he came here. So what is it that makes you feel this way?

Isn't it possible that Druzzi was held back because of Shaffers poor performance? Not saying that is so,but I keep hearing that "Shaffer wil;l be better with Steinbach beside him". But how do we know it wasn't Druzzi helping Shaffer out that made Druzzi look so bad?