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I wanted to see if their were any other GMs that started the same time that Heckert did.
it looks like John Schneider of the Seahawks started the same time Heckert did.
Both teams were coming off 5-11 seasons the year before.
The Seahawks like the Browns went through several QBs before the 2012 season.
But how did the Seahawks turn it around in 3 seasons?
7-9,7-9 and now 9-5. Thats 23-23 in 3 years time so far.
Heckert is 14-32 in the same time span.
very people bring up John Schneider when you think of outstanding GMs in the NFL. He is quietly building a team for long term success.
the biggest difference's I see is that while the Browns fiddled with 2 coaches in 3 years,the Seahawks have stuck with one,Pete Carroll.
John Schneider isn't afraid to trade either.
He looks like a genius getting Marshawn Lynch for peanuts.
he made the Eagles look stupid by acquiring a 4th Rd draft pick and Chris Clemons. all Clemons does is ring up double sack figures every year.
Seattle has one of the NFL's best defenses.
Schneider hit gold with Richard Sherman,K.J Wright and Kam Chancellor.
all stalwarts on their defense. all drafted after RD 3.
and of course Russell Wilson has made it all come together.
I can't think of a GM who has got more value out of his draft picks the last 3 years than this guy in Seattle.
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I wish we could play Arizona and St Louis twice every year. I also wish we had a head coach that had actually been a head coach... Or actually just one that deserves to be a head coach at all.
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Great googly boogly.. two different situations. one started with a better quality of talent (seattle) and had a HC that was a HC in the NFL as well as in College before. In fact, Seattle had a guy (mora) that had Head Coaching experience in College and was pretty heavely touted back then.. He lasted one year, then Pete Carroll The Browns had Mangini for one year then Shurmur But the first year the team really really lacked talent, the second year they changed both offensive and defensive schemes which meant a really big roster turnover. we went from one of the oldest teams to one of the youngest. My point in all this is, you can't just look at the record and say,, We shoulda coulda or our guy isn't as good as their guy. Quote:
the biggest difference's I see is that while the Browns fiddled with 2 coaches in 3 years,the Seahawks have stuck with one,Pete Carroll.
that comment right there made me laugh,, you think Carroll has been there for 3 years.. not so, he's been there 2. same as shurmur.
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that comment right there made me laugh,, you think Carroll has been there for 3 years.. not so, he's been there 2. same as shurmur.
As much I hate helping out KendallStorm, you are wrong. Carroll's first year was 2010.
Link
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The simple fact is that Seattle's defense has come together into a dominating unit, and they got very lucky that Russel Wilson almost immediately hit his stride as an NFL QB. (which, while I liked Wilson pre-draft, was no sure thing)
They also were able to acquire Marshawn Lynch. He was coming off 2 injury riddled years.
These were the 2 biggest moves he made on offense, and neither was a sure thing.
If Wilson hadn't become what he's become, Seattle would be another 3-5 win teams with a coach in jeopardy of losing his job. Seattle went out and signed Matt Flynn in the off-season, only to watch him be anything except what they anticipated. If we had gone and signed Flynn, we probably would have allowed him to compete with McCoy, or would have named him the starter. We probably would have passed on a 3rd QB in the draft at that point. Russel Wilson makes that team go, and without him, they are still a struggling team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
that comment right there made me laugh,, you think Carroll has been there for 3 years.. not so, he's been there 2. same as shurmur.
As much I hate helping out KendallStorm, you are wrong. Carroll's first year was 2010.
Link
Yup, you are correct. and in that time, we've had 2 head coaches for Heckert to provide players to in two different O and D schemes.
My mistake.. thanks for correcting me..
Both Schnieder and Heckert got to their teams in 2010 so they've both had the same amount of time, but like I said above, heckert had the WAY tougher job and Seattle didn't have to play Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cinci 6 times a year either.
So, the comparison is still not on solid ground.
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I certinally didn't have Seattle pegged as a playoff team this season.
Wilson is playing at a high level.
I'm not surprised cause Darrell Bevell knows something about QBs.
He was a integral part of Green Bays success.
I don't think there are a whole of teams that want to face the Hawks in the playoffs.
the Seahawks will be strong next year.
I can see them being active in FA. They could land a Dwayne Bowe or Mike Wallace.
that would make their offense that much more explosive.
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I don't know that anyone had Seattle pegged as a playoff team, but this is a team that was 7-9 just a couple of years ago. I don't know that they completely bottomed out. They let Hasselbeck go. That was a difficult decision. They brought in Tavaris Jackson last year. They signed Matt Flynn. They threw darts at the QB position, and got lucky when Russel Wilson became far, far more than they could have imagined. If anyone says that they saw Wilson throwing 21 TD against 9 INT as a rookie, and leading his team to a 9 win+ season as a rookie, they're full of it.
Without Wilson the Seahawks are probably a 3-5 win team. He has made that much of a difference. No one could have foreseen that happening ... especially as a rookie.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Take look at their Defensive backfield ! 
Last edited by waterdawg; 12/22/12 04:33 PM.
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Yep, but without a real QB, they probably win 3-7 games. (highest end for the entire year, IMHO)
They had Tavaris Jackson last year, who had a year similar to Colt McCoy's year last year (60%, 14 TD, 13 INT, and so on) .... and they won 7 games.
Last year they scored 321 points. They have scored 350 so far this year, with 2 games left to play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It helps too that Sidney Rice is healthy also and Golden Tate is emerging as a legit #2 threat.
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Quote:
It helps too that Sidney Rice is healthy also and Golden Tate is emerging as a legit #2 threat.
And none of that matters, or probably even happens, without Wilson.
Rice, for being a "#1", only has something like 750 yards. The running game has definitely helped Wilson not have to be a :do it all" guy as well ..... but the fact is that their offense is as good as it is because they got the QB spot right. The fact that they got it right was as much luck as pure scouting genius.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't buy into the Wilson hype as much as most, though he has seemed to be doing really well in his past few games. Like Alex Smith, he's not willing any team to victory on his own. He's got a great defense behind him and a great back to hand off to. That said, he's doing what he needs to do, which is to not make mistakes, pretty much.
Seattla also caught NE and GB off their strides early in the season. I think either team would beat them in a rematch at this point in the season.
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Clipboard Jesus, Matt Flynn, Sidney Rice, Tavaris Jackson were great pickups too.
And Russel Okung and James Carpenter have been stellar as first round draft picks.
This being said, Schneider's been more good than bad for sure. I can say the same about Heckert. The only difference I see between Schneider and Heckert - Schneider is willing to spend big for a free agent.
Seattle had better talent that Cleveland when their respective GMs started, as well as has has a much better recent history.
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It should also be noted that some of Cleveland's unwillingness to spend on free agents may have come from the former owner.
There were a few newspaper articles that said that Randy Lerner gave the front office a fairly strict budget in the final couple of years of his ownership. (Most likely because he knew that he wanted to sell, and didn't want to burden a new owner with huge free agent contracts and undercut the value of the team as a result)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well the organization has gotten cheaper and cheaper over the years. Remember them locking up the bottled water lol. Stories of them keeping close inventory of Pens and stationary as well. It isnt hard to beleive they were pretty tight with FA money as well, especially when you start thinking about the free agents we have brought in.
Hillis cover of Madden to head case.
Joe J filed a suit against the Browns for Staph.
The receiver we signed that got drunk and ran over the dude in florida.
Bentley blows out his knee and sues the Browns
Lets face it, this is one of the reasons I have prefered Heckerts draft only approach.
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Don't forget the big coin we spent on Gary Baxter. That sure paid off also. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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WOW... Gary Baxter, lol i totally forgot about him.
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Garcia, Dilfer, That o-lineman that came in w/ Bentley and JJ who went mental and had to bail . . .
The list just gets more and more impressive.
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Schneider has done an awesome job....better than Heckert. One of maybe a handful of guys that have been better than Heckert.
I still love what Heckert has done here and personally think he's been great. They have both been.
Not sure what the point of the thread is.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Well the organization has gotten cheaper and cheaper over the years. Remember them locking up the bottled water lol. Stories of them keeping close inventory of Pens and stationary as well. It isnt hard to beleive they were pretty tight with FA money as well, especially when you start thinking about the free agenÏs we have brought in.
Any business that is going to go up for sale does this sort of pinching to make the business look as profitible as possible.
I'm not saying your thoughts are incorrect. But this is a business fact. Also some of the free agents we brought in, were because many players had absolutely no interest in coming to the Browns at the time. Even the best cooks are limited to the ingrediants and Kitchen quality.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Quote:
It should also be noted that some of Cleveland's unwillingness to spend on free agents may have come from the former owner.
There were a few newspaper articles that said that Randy Lerner gave the front office a fairly strict budget in the final couple of years of his ownership. (Most likely because he knew that he wanted to sell, and didn't want to burden a new owner with huge free agent contracts and undercut the value of the team as a result)
Could be, but it sure was sold to us as Holmgren and Heckerts desire to to build almost entirely from the draft. And to be honest, if you look at both Holmgrens and Heckerts track record, that's kinda the way they worked in previous positions.
So,,, I guess you gotta make up your own mind, but there is reason to believe that Lerner had nothing to do with it.
Also, I really believe that Lerner didn't pay much attention anyway.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Quote:
Could be, but it sure was sold to us as Holmgren and Heckerts desire to to build almost entirely from the draft. And to be honest, if you look at both Holmgrens and Heckerts track record, that's kinda the way they worked in previous positions.
So,,, I guess you gotta make up your own mind, but there is reason to believe that Lerner had nothing to do with it.
Also, I really believe that Lerner didn't pay much attention anyway.
I think if you look at last yr. Hecks comments says it all. When asked why they did not bring in a vet WR., Heck said they did talk to a couple but were either out-bid or the Player did not want to come here, well more or less thats what he said.
I know hind sight is 20/20, but when H&H kept saying they had to stay with-in the budget, that tells me they tried to bring in some help but RL said no. He knew was going to sell the Team, so like was said he was gonna make it look as good as he could on the books.
TH gets a bad rap on this. Yes I think he wanted to build thru the draft, but just the foundation. I think RL put the stop on bringing in some help for the younger guys. RL did not care if we won or not at that point, because he knew he was selling. I don't know why they can just come out and say the Owner does not want to spend the $$$, instead of talking between the lines?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I can't really dispute what your saying, but again, look at the history of these two guys and you will see, neither liked bringing in high priced Free Agents. So, there you have it. do you believe their history, or do you believe Lerner stopped them from doing it here? Take your pick
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I'm watching Seattle just dismantle the 49ers right now. I watched a Browns team
get soundly defeated on both sides of the ball by the Broncos.
Schneider draft picks are difference makers.
Heckert's aren't
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Quote:
I know hind sight is 20/20, but when H&H kept saying they had to stay with-in the budget, that tells me they tried to bring in some help but RL said no. He knew was going to sell the Team, so like was said he was gonna make it look as good as he could on the books.
I don't know that your math adds up here. Randy sold the team ay the earliest possible date he could per his fathers wishes. This would lead one to believe that he had every intention of selling the team all along at this time.
So let's look at that for a minute......
To make this team a winner he spendt millions to buy out Manginis contract and send him packing, only to turn around and spend a fortune on a long term contract to both Holmgren and Heckert to make this team a winner.....
Only to turn around and do what again? Save some millions to avoid filling holes to make this team a winner? That just doesn't add up to me.
Your "business theory" holds merrit if you're having a fire sell and liquidating a business. But you only need to look at the appraised values of NFL franchises. The winners are worth far more. In this case, after spending a ton and still having a loser, spending on a few player contract and filling holes in order to win would have paid dividends, not cost money.
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TH gets a bad rap on this. Yes I think he wanted to build thru the draft, but just the foundation. I think RL put the stop on bringing in some help for the younger guys. RL did not care if we won or not at that point, because he knew he was selling. I don't know why they can just come out and say the Owner does not want to spend the $$$, instead of talking between the lines?
Then we totally disagree. You don't spend multi millions to make this team a winner, buy out contracts and hire even more expencive people to run it, and then just balk at a few FA contracts.
If you were gonna save money, you would have just lrft Mangini in power in the first place and saved a boatload right there. So I find your premise flawed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm watching Seattle just dismantle the 49ers right now. I watched a Browns team
get soundly defeated on both sides of the ball by the Broncos.
Schneider draft picks are difference makers.
Heckert's aren't
I must really be a moron because I swear I get dumber every time I read one of your posts.
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I wish we could play Arizona and St Louis twice every year.
Ummm.. They lost to Arizona and St. Louis each once.. yet they are 10-5.. because they also beat New England, Green Bay, San Francisco, Chicago... every one of those teams has been considered a top 3 or 4 team in the NFL at some point this year.. who did we beat?
They have won their last 3 games 150-30.... I don't care who you are or who you are playing, in the NFL that's DAMN impressive.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
They have won their last 3 games 150-30....
We could do that if we really wanted to. 
Seriously though, that is absolutely incredible. Seattle is definitely peaking at the right time. They are not just beating teams, they are dismantling them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I wanted them to go for 50 again ... to get the record because that would be pretty cool ... but mainly because I hate the 9ers. 
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I was kinda hoping for it myself.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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tell me where I'm wrong. the Browns are 5-10 for a reason. The Seahawks are going to the playoffs for a reason.
Heckert drafts a cupcake FB and a TE that barely contributes in the 4th RD and Schneider gets K.J Wright and Richard Sherman. 2 guys playing at a Pro Bowl level.
In 2012 the Seahawks get Russell Wilson. the Browns select Weeden.
One QB has puts about 26 pts a game the other about 15.
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Dude are u freaking clueless? You continue to bitch and moan about about 4th round picks that havent studded out. Its that type of nonsense that makes me believe you wouldn't know a football from a mothball.
Not long ago, many fans were clamoring for the complete blowup of the Seahawks. When I mean not long ago I mean about a month and half ago. The team came together and we see the results. Hell 2 months ago Schneider was nothing more than the moron that signed Matt Flynn and Braylon Edwards.
You want their results but you dont have the patience to see it come together. The problem isn't Heckert, it is the fact we have gone from Generation X to Generation Whine.
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since 1999,what has this franchise accomplished?
2 winning seasons. thats it.
1 playoff appearance
and you want us to exercise patience.
I want results.
and you know,the way things are going,the Browns are going to finish last in the AFC North again next year.
That great duo of Heckert and Holmgren were hired to turn it around.
Not be cellar dwellers year after year.
both failed.
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Can you comprehend just how bad this franchise was when they took it over? We had exactly 2 guys on defense worth a damn in Rubin and DQ. WE had Joe Thomas, Mack and Ben Watson on offense that were actually worth a damn.
You seem to think everyone we add or draft is supposed to be a Pro Bowl player instantly. Turn off the Madden 13 and welcome to the real world.
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Turn off the Madden 13 and welcome to the real world.
Yeah, like that's gonna happen 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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