|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Wow. Questioning fanhood? Why? Because I can watch Weeden and know that there are NFL throws that he can make that Colt can only DREAM of completing?
No, because Weeden can't hit the broadside of a barn in daylight. He'll never win any 'just for show' QB contests. If he actually hits a short or medium route, it's pure luck and probably the receiver showing off some of their gymnastic skills.
Quote:
Was Weeden great this year? No of course not.
He wasn't only 'not great', he wasn't even 'good'. He was atrocious! I've heard comparisons to Derek Anderson. Those comparisons to Derek Anderson are over-rated. Weeden isn't as good as Anderson.
Quote:
But do you seriously REMEMBER last year? The only reason we won 4 games is because we ran into 2 0-fers (Indy, Miami) Seattle in one of the WORST games I've ever seen (which we won due to a phantom PR call) and a Jags team that chose to ignore its best player (MJD)
And Indy is going to the playoffs with a team younger than the Browns and with an interim coach and a rookie QB. Miami was in the playoff hunt longer than us and is better coached, has a better (and younger) QB and lost their primary receiving threat in Brandon Marshall. Seattle is a playoff team this year (with another rookie QB that could win rookie of the year honors). We have an old QB that was handed the job without working for it and Seattle paid a back-up a boatload of money only to select a rookie 3rd rounder to go under center through a real competition.
Yes, I'll say that the Browns regressed because in all likelihood, we're looking at starting a different QB next year...again!
Quote:
We were in every game this year up until last week. When injuries and Peyton Manning being Peyton Manning caught up with us.
Yeah. Excuses. Nothing but excuses! I don't give a damn about being 'competitive' anymore. I fully expect wins and ACTUAL improvements, not wins against pitiful opponents that we eek out wins against (7-6 against SD; re: Seattle 2011 and 20-17 against Oakland) and that doesn't even include the 20-14 win against Putzburgh which was led by an even more geriatric QB in Charlie Batch.
So, explain again how the team has improved in REAL terms. The win total doesn't mean crap if you're winning 5 games vs. 4 wins last season. We were one of the weakest teams last year and such got one of the weakest out-of-division schedules and still didn't manage any real improvements.
Quote:
It must suck to be negative about everything.
I'm not negative about everything. I'm secure in what I think and I'm not swayed be specious arguments. Just because it isn't your view doesn't mean that it's negative.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
I'm not negative about everything. I'm secure in what I think and I'm not swayed be specious arguments. Just because it isn't your view doesn't mean that it's negative.
But because I disagree with you. It means I'm not a fan of the team.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
No, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your team is actually improving.
Quote:
Tampa Bay actually has improved their team though. They increased their win total from 4 to 6 with one meaningless game for Atlanta to go. If Atlanta packs it in and gives TB another win, they'll have gone from 4 wins to 7.
I guess you missed something very important. A single word. And that word is necessarily. It has a meaning. It wasn't a throw-in word. And Tampa Bay actually HAS improved their team, which is reflected in their wins and losses.
Try again, Holmes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Winning more games
Winning more game (no S).
Quote:
scoring more points
The league average for points scored is 22.7. We are currently scoring 19.5 (it will probably go down Sunday). But! we have scored two defensive TD's this year and one punt return TD. It wouldn't be fair those other units to attribute those points to the offense, would it? So now our average is down to 18.1 (not including this Sunday when we will likely score less than 18.1 points).
Last year our offense scored 218 points for an average of 13.6 points per game. We also had one punt return for a TD and no defensive TD's so that brings our offenses average to 13.2 points per game.
Yes, our offense has improved. It went from awful to below average. Much of that can be attributed to having a full training camp, more than one year in a system, an offensive coordinator, and real wide receivers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Quote:
Check the numbers, he isn't...I've been there done that
Is he more talented? Sure, but that "talent" didn't mean better production this season
I did.
We're barely up in YPC and 20+ runs ... down slightly on fumbles ... 76 yards less than last year ... tripled our TD's ...
I posted the numbers above, wonder why you didn't? 
We're "up" in ypc by next to, uhm, nothing (not even 0.1)? and that "up" is mainly thanks to Hardesty's improvement from last season. TRich has not run it better than Hillis. The TDs have gone up because we now have a passing game between the 20s (still struggling in the RZ) to get us in scoring position more often, that's abou it. TRich has scored 2 TDs each in his last games without even AVG 3ypc or hitting 50-60yds overall...he got them gift-wrapped
As I said, more talent? Sure, and I'm sure that talent will get better in the upcoming season because it can't get much worse for a Top 5 pick. But if we discuss running game help for the Cleveland Browns QBs in 2011 compared to 2012, it's a wash...that's the point here. The rest is hype clouded wishful thinking
As for the passing game...our yds/PA has gone up 0.6yds per pass attempt. I'm no math prof but I think that's significantly better than a 0.03 or so yds/per run increase (or 0.1 DEcrease when comparing lead rushers only, which should be the point here since we're talking Richardson)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not negative about everything. I'm secure in what I think and I'm not swayed be specious arguments. Just because it isn't your view doesn't mean that it's negative.
But because I disagree with you. It means I'm not a fan of the team.
Go back and read what I wrote again. I put a condition on it which would cause me to question whether you're a fan of the team or not. It seems that I am going to be questioning whether you are a fan or not because you obviously took it that I do and therefore that you met the condition.
Yes, if you think that Weeden is a smarter QB than McCoy, then yes, I question whether you're a fan of the Cleveland Browns. Holmgren wasn't a fan. Heckert wasn't a fan. Shurmur isn't a fan. I really don't think they even cared about winning so long as they were able to collect a paycheck. I would hazard to say that I don't think that they believed that the team would be sold and that their gravy trains would continue. I further speculate (yes, I'm speculating) that they nearly had a collective 'crap in their pants' moment when it was announced that Haslam was interested in buying the team. They knew immediately that they would be fired.
I guess I'm just a hater. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I think, at this point, it's safe to say that Richardson was never 100% healthy throughout the season. From running backs coach Gary Brown: Quote:
“If the knee’s not right as a running back, you don’t feel good and you’re not going to be as explosive until that confidence level gets higher,” Brown said. “And I think when the knee finally started feeling better, that’s when the rib hit.
“You can’t breathe, you can’t twist, you can’t turn, so for us to go out there and expect him to be the Trent that we all saw at Alabama, I think that we were putting a little bit too much on him. He went out and played and showed he’s a very mentally and physically tough kid. I think he holds himself to such a high standard, even though when he was running hard and playing well, he just didn’t feel like Trent. So God willing he’s going to come back strong from the rib and the knee is strong and then the city of Cleveland will see exactly what Trent Richardson is.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Quote:
Quote:
Winning more games
Winning more game (no S).
Quote:
scoring more points
The league average for points scored is 22.7. We are currently scoring 19.5 (it will probably go down Sunday). But! we have scored two defensive TD's this year and one punt return TD. It wouldn't be fair those other units to attribute those points to the offense, would it? So now our average is down to 18.1
So you have to take away our Defensive and Special teams TD's but no one elses?
You say the average is 22.7
I'll just take the middle of the road team, then. The Vikings, who average 22.8.
Take away their defensive and return TD's and they're down to 20.9.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
what is evident is that the new management coming in isn't sold on McCoy or Weeden.
Can you
please
tell me how this
is
evident?
I'll answer this, in part. It was reported that the first question that Haslam inquired to Holmgren about is whether Weeden could really be a quality QB. Holmgren said that it was his opinion that Weeden would be. Holmgren has since been fired. It's only speculation, but that single answer to Haslam's first question about the roster of the team was probably all that Haslam had to hear to make the decision.
I think that with Holmgren gone (and Heckert and Shurmur to follow soon), there will be nobody here to defend Weeden against the new regime.
If I were asked for my view, I would have to say that my opinion is that the new regime has more faith in McCoy than Weeden.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Yes, if you think that Weeden is a smarter QB than McCoy, then yes, I question whether you're a fan of the Cleveland Browns.
Well he never threw any passes to his O Lineman.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
So, the new owner asks the guy who was running the team before him his opinion on Weeden, so that means he doesn't believe in Weeden?
There's no way you believe the things you say.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, if you think that Weeden is a smarter QB than McCoy, then yes, I question whether you're a fan of the Cleveland Browns.
Well he never threw any passes to his O Lineman.
But he tried to throw the football forward twice on the same play.
Utter brilliance!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
So, the new owner asks the guy who was running the team before him his opinion on Weeden, so that means he doesn't believe in Weeden?
There's no way you believe the things you say.
I'm putting forth the implication that Holmgren's answer to the question is part of the reason that he's out of a job today.
Yes, I parlay that into saying that the new regime coming in doesn't believe that Weeden can play the game as they need him to do. Extrapolate this out to mean that they don't believe that he is the answer at QB.
If that's your accusation, then I am guilty as charged.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
I think, at this point, it's safe to say that Richardson was never 100% healthy throughout the season.
From running backs coach Gary Brown:
Quote:
“If the knee’s not right as a running back, you don’t feel good and you’re not going to be as explosive until that confidence level gets higher,” Brown said. “And I think when the knee finally started feeling better, that’s when the rib hit.
“You can’t breathe, you can’t twist, you can’t turn, so for us to go out there and expect him to be the Trent that we all saw at Alabama, I think that we were putting a little bit too much on him. He went out and played and showed he’s a very mentally and physically tough kid. I think he holds himself to such a high standard, even though when he was running hard and playing well, he just didn’t feel like Trent. So God willing he’s going to come back strong from the rib and the knee is strong and then the city of Cleveland will see exactly what Trent Richardson is.”
Let's hope...because now "ankle" has joined "knee" and "rib". He hasn't been healthy for over a year now and health WAS a red flag with him pre-draft and ALWAYS is with RBs....that's why I HATE picking them so early. Add to that that RBs seems to be deepest and easiest position to fill on day 3 in ANY draft and you have the recipe for what I call (and pretty much most GMs) LOW VALUE. The fact that a value guy like Heckert pulled the trigger on him tells me 2 things:
1) He expected him to be a top RB from the 1st game on
2) He knew he's taking a big risk with Weeden at 22 or early 2nd, so he wanted a SAFE boom prospect (with a high floor too) before (and after with Schwartz) he gambled on a QB, which was a need pick (pretty much always is for GMs with QBs drafted in top 50)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I meant to take the league average out of my post because it was irrelevant to my point.
But yes, because I left it in I should have figured out the points per game average without including defensive TDs and special teams TDs.
So far there have been 27 punt/kick return TDs, 92 fumble/interception TDs, and 10 TDs scored off of blocked kicks for a total of 129. There has also been 13 safeties.
129 (7) = 903 (I am not accounting for missed extra points)
13 (2) = 26
So there has been 929 points scored via special teams or defense. Teams have scored a total of 10,914 points this season (including special teams and defensive TDs)
10914 - 929 = 9985
9985 / (Number of teams: 32 x Number of games played: 15)
9985 / 480 = 20.8
So the league average for points scored by an offense is 20.8, down from 22.7. Our offense has scored 18.1 points per game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
While Weeden had no clue what he was doing, I still argue that was a smart play. If he had simply batted the ball down or caught it and fallen down it would have been a turnover on downs. But because he threw it again we got another try at the endzone, just with more yards added on.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
While Weeden had no clue what he was doing, I still argue that was a smart play. If he had simply batted the ball down or caught it and fallen down it would have been a turnover on downs. But because he threw it again we got another try at the endzone, just with more yards added on.
Lets not pretend he did that KNOWING that's what would happen
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
Lets not pretend he did that KNOWING that's what would happen
That's where the, "Weeden had no clue what he was doing" part of my post comes into play.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
I posted the numbers above, wonder why you didn't?
Because you said you'd seen them?
Quote:
We're "up" in ypc by next to, uhm, nothing (not even 0.1)?
Hence my use of the adverb 'barely'.
Quote:
TRich has not run it better than Hillis.
Yes, he has.
Quote:
As for the passing game...our yds/PA has gone up 0.6yds per pass attempt. I'm no math prof but I think that's significantly better than a 0.03 or so yds/per run increase (or 0.1 DEcrease when comparing lead rushers only, which should be the point here since we're talking Richardson)
How we doing on touchdowns and turnovers?
Again, if you want to play the stat game, then Weeden isn't much of an upgrade over McCoy.
But using the eye test...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Again, if you want to play the stat game, then Weeden isn't much of an upgrade over McCoy.
But using the eye test...
I know what you're trying here and already disputed it. The best and imho most telling stat is yds per play as it has the biggest sample size and for QB's yds per pass splits depending on situation (to weed out garbage time stats)
Weeden has been clearly more effective when dropping back (0.6 IS significant) and has better splits and is much worse in garbage time, that's telling and exactly fitting what the eyes see".
TRich otoh hasn't been more effective when running, simple as that. He "looks" better? Maybe...that's the 3rd overall "flair", hyping every good run, making excuses for bad ones...and there were MANY bad ones in crucial situation where he completely failed his team. To me he honestly has NOT looked better, as I HATE his dancing style, for whatever reasons he did it (injury, style, cluelessnes...whatever)
TDs are like W-L for starting pitchers in MLB, rough at best stat to measure effectivity as too dependable from other factors. The "opportunity ratio" inside the 10 has been heavily in TRich's favor (compared to league AVG RB:QB ratio) and as I said, he was in this position mainly thanks to a much improved passing game between the 20s to begin with, a luxury the 2011 RBs had less of.
We almost score a TD per game more and it's not because of the running game...
As for turnovers, again...TOTAL numbers are misleading, % is what I'm looking at as more plays = more chance for TOs
Let's see:
Weeden 18 TOs in 517 PAs = 28.72 TO/play
McCoy 13 TOs in 463 PAs = 35.62 TO/play
If you take out Weeden's 1st game, it's 14 TOs in 482 PAs = 34.43 TO/play...
So since week 2 Weeden is taking care of the ball "as good" as McCoy. I'd argue even better since he has fumbled the ball 5 less times in more PAs. He also had 2 of his 6 fumbles in that 1st game where he was a nervous wreck. 4 fumbles, only 1 lost in 14 games is as good as it gets with ANY NFL QB. McCoy fumbled 11 times in less tries and got lucky to lose only 2 of them
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Here's a hypothetical:
If the average effective productive career for a RB ends at 29, and the average effective productive career for a QB ends at 34, then both Weeden and Richardson have effective careers of 6 years (Okay, 8 for Richardson, but who's counting  ).
As of right now, which guy stands the better chance of being a starter for the Browns in 4 seasons?
And I'll argue with anyone who doesn't believe we got value out of Richardson. 2nd in TD's in the league at the time of this writing, 3rd in reception in the NFL from the RB position while leading the team in receptions, and 16th in total yards.
That's more value than what we got from Weeden, as it can be argued that he didn't do any better than McCoy.
Can anyone argue with a straight face that they know for a fact Hardesty would have given us the same production as Richardson?
Which player has more upside? Can anyone honestly say they expect Weeden's ceiling to be as high as Richardson's?
Richardson will still physically mature. Weeden is at the age where he'll start to decline.
I see no discussions on whether or not Richardson is going to be on the team next year.
I see not one article stating for a fact anyone in with the new regime thinks Weeden is a good bet.
Keep in mind that Holmgren attempted to do what no team has EVER attempted to do in the history of the NFL, which is to make a 29-year old rookie QB into a legit starter. In fact, there has never BEEN a 29-year old rookie drafted into the NFL.
There is no greater gamble than that. And we took him in the 1st round. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,871
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,871 |
Richardson needs to work on his dancing - or, eliminating it.
As to the title of the thread, "who was the bigger gamble"? Weeden, by far.
Toss your stats up your hind end - at the end of the day/season, what are we? A 5, possibly 6 win team. With Weeden, the guy that was going to "throw open wide receivers", the guy that was going to "open up the running game" with his strong. supposedly accurate arem.........we have 5 wins with him.
I don't give rip about his "over 20 yd. passing" plays. What have those gotten us?????? Oh, 5 wins. Wowser.......hell of an improvement, right? Oh, not so much.
Overall, his accuracy sucks. Sure, he's made some decent passes.......he's also sucked at many more.
I don't base it on stats - I base it on watching the games.........you know, the thing that matters. For a "big, strong armed quarterback with superb accuracy and a strong arm that will stretch the defense"........he doesn't fit the bill. Not even close.
He'll probably get a second year as the starter - I don't have a problem with that. He IS a rookie. I also don't give a rats ass about his age.........that's just stupid to worry about in my opinion.
However, so far, he is what he is: accurate 10% of the time, lost 50% of the time, slow footed with no idea how to compensate for that, and bewildered most of the time if he has to look for a second read.
He's a first year player, he may very well get better, but stats aside, he's struggled in a huge way this year. Meaning, stats don't mean jack.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
JC Rookies played like rookies this year. 2nd year players played like 2nd year players. Philly game early Little tips a ball he should have caught at the goal line for an int. Bad coaching at the end of the half let them score and again at the end of the game we let them march down the field. Indy game Weeden throws a perfect ball to Gordon who dropped it. Dallas Weeden took us down the field only to have T-Rich not follow his blocker into the endzone and then Shurmur call a fade and then Weeden took them into the endzone for the lead with a minute left. Defense fails let them tie it up. I dont care how people talk about Batch playing Pittsburgh still has the #1 defense in the NFL and our defense outplayed them to allow us to win. If the bengles are so great why did they only beat them 13-10? While I for sure dont know if Weeden is the answer (no one does) hes better then McCoy will ever be. Weeden at least has a chance to improve accouting for this is his rookie year. T-Rich broke the Browns rookie rushing record with a coach that for some reason would limit his touchs with close leads late which brings us full circle. The head coach. He took a bunch of rookies and actually kept their heads in the game. I dont think hes the guy to take us to the promised land but I do believe we have improved as a team in talent across the board and the person who brought alot of that talent is named Heckert. So... I think drafting Weeden was a bigger gamble then T-Rich but firing Heckert would be an even bigger gamble. Remember one thing, Haslam has exactly as much experence being the top owner of an NFL team as Randy did. So you will have to pardon me while I watch what happens in the off season. I will now return you to the talking head mentality of not seeing any improvement over last year, Especially with the major reach of Heckert Holmgren and Shurmur were/will all be fired because Haslam didnt like Weeden. If Heckert goes its because Banner wants to have more control and shift control to lackys. If Shurmur goes its because he was judged on how he coached. Holmgren left because Bannar replaced him and his services were redundent. Saying Weeden was the sole effect on any of their jobs is well   
Last edited by NickBrownsFan; 12/29/12 09:51 PM.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307 |
Quote:
don't fool yourself. There was very little ambition to win the North this year.
In 2013 I expect this franchise to win 8 games minimum.
And if they do, it will be with the foundation of talent brought in by Heckert.
Are you 12?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Here's a hypothetical:
If the average effective productive career for a RB ends at 29, and the average effective productive career for a QB ends at 34, then both Weeden and Richardson have effective careers of 6 years (Okay, 8 for Richardson, but who's counting ).
So finally you came to realize that BOTH have about the same "career window"
Quote:
As of right now, which guy stands the better chance of being a starter for the Browns in 4 seasons?
Always the RB....would you have asked after their 1st seasons if AP or Rodgers would have alonger career the answer would be? What's the point again? Making Captain obvious claims and act as if it's a revelation?
Quote:
And I'll argue with anyone who doesn't believe we got value out of Richardson. 2nd in TD's in the league at the time of this writing, 3rd in reception in the NFL from the RB position while leading the team in receptions, and 16th in total yards.
Weeds is 17th in total yds for QBs, big freaking deal. Still throwing around TOTAL stats and completely ignoring the pure efficacy stats is all I need to know about a lawyer of a lost cause
Quote:
That's more value than what we got from Weeden, as it can be argued that he didn't do any better than McCoy.
Repeating it doesn't make stuff true. It also not only can be argued, it is FACT that TRich wasn't more effective than Hillis in 2011
Quote:
Can anyone argue with a straight face that they know for a fact Hardesty would have given us the same production as Richardson?
For a fact? How is that possible the way you asked the question? Keep chest bumping air with useless rhetoric 101, maybe you'll "convince" some braindead around here, but they're your last resort anyway as I've argued elsewhere. Good company, lol. But I wouldn't bet my house on any backup or street FA RB getting the same yds out of 267 carries. It has been done before. Remember Samkon Gado? or Chris Ivory, Pierre Thomas? Happened often enough that backup or 3rd string RBs have taken the opportunity they've received and ran away with it. So, since you seem to be so sure: would you have bet a significant amount on that not happening? Oh, look, question can't be answered...I'm so smart
Quote:
Which player has more upside? Can anyone honestly say they expect Weeden's ceiling to be as high as Richardson's?
Both have HIGH ceilings and I'd argue a potentially "only" GOOD QB is worth more in this league than a potentially GREAT RB
Quote:
Richardson will still physically mature. Weeden is at the age where he'll start to decline.
How about TRich gets healthy first before he "matures", huh? His knees haven't been the same for over a year now and his burst is lacking because of it. He can grow a beard all he wants, if his knees are shot, he won't run away from anyone
Quote:
I see no discussions on whether or not Richardson is going to be on the team next year.
Back to siding with the pitchfork people, then snake tonguing "wanting to give Weeds another year". Hypocrisy at his finest yet again Mr.
Quote:
I see not one article stating for a fact anyone in with the new regime thinks Weeden is a good bet.
I see no article suggesting the new regime is a good bet. Your point again? Oh, I forgot, "Rhetoric for dummies the sequel", lol
You didn't make one single point in this garbage of a post Toad. All politics. Well done. Toad for President
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
don't fool yourself. There was very little ambition to win the North this year.
In 2013 I expect this franchise to win 8 games minimum.
And if they do, it will be with the foundation of talent brought in by Heckert.
Are you 12?
Don't fool yourself. Heckert is gone because Holmgren brought him in and Holmgren was fired. Heckert is only here now because it doesn't matter if you keep him on or not for the remainder of the season. It would have made more sense to fire Shurmur midway through the season than to fire Heckert then, but true to his words, Haslam has kept Shurmur and Heckert on the payroll. That'll end soon. Very soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
So finally you came to realize that BOTH have about the same "career window"
They don't have the same "career window."
If Weeden doesn't turn into a legit starter by the end of the 2013 season, the very best he's going to get in the NFL will be the Chad Henne "career window" where he gets bounced from his first team and hopes to catch on with a team as the "hoping to compete for the chance to start" guy when he'll turn 31.
See how that works? 
Weeden's "window" to get more time as a starter is only open for one more season. Richardson's is open quite a bit longer. Ergo...why TRich was a far better gamble.
See, even if Richardson misses some time next year with broken ribs or from having a backup QB tumbling on the back of his legs, he'll still be the starting RB for the Browns.
Richardson missed camp and played most of the year with broken ribs yet still produced and is widely viewed as in a very positive light by the vast majority of the league.
Brandon Weeden isn't even viewed as a lock to make the roster after a year where he disappointed as a rookie in almost every important category.
Their "career window's" couldn't be more different.
What you're talking about is maximum top-end production. Those are two very different things, since one player is far more likely to reach that production than the other.
In the simplest terms, you're talking about the greater reward for the risk. That is NOT the same as which guy is the better gamble.
Quote:
As of right now, which guy stands the better chance of being a starter for the Browns in 4 seasons?
---
Always the RB....would you have asked after their 1st seasons if AP or Rodgers would have alonger career the answer would be? What's the point again?
Go read the topic of the thread again. It's not who will have the longer career as a starter (It'll be Richardson, BTW). It's which guy is the greater gamble. Since you admitted the RB stands a better chance of being a starter in 4 seasons, the RB is the better gamble.
However, let's go ahead and use your example of Rodgers. Let's say that Weeden got into that exact same situation.
Weeden would have sat on the bench until he was 32-years old. Brandon Weeden was NEVER going to be afforded the opportunity to sit on the bench for several years before he became a starter.
Of course that also blows apart your argument that his age doesn't matter, but that's for another discussion, isn't it. 
So, bringing it all the way back to whether or not Weeden was a bigger gamble, if the world knows he would have to start in his first year or two, and thus isn't afforded the opportunity to sit on the bench and learn, that by definition makes him a bigger gamble.
Quote:
Weeds is 17th in total yds for QBs, big freaking deal. Still throwing around TOTAL stats and completely ignoring the pure efficacy stats is all I need to know
When "total stats" includes leading the team in rushing AND receptions, and when "total stats" equal being ranked 29th in the league in passer rating...yeah...big deal.
Quote:
It also not only can be argued, it is FACT that TRich wasn't more effective than Hillis in 2011
Oh, sure, you think you're gonna be able to hang your cherry-picking stat-hat on both of their 3.6 yards per carry, but that's probably the weakest argument in a year-long debacle of weak arguments you've made.
Richardson played injured while Hillis couldn't/wouldn't. That would end the argument by itself. The icing on the cake shows:
Richardson 950 yards
Hillis 587 yards
Richardson 51 catches
Hillis 22 catches
Richardson 14 TD's
Hillis 3 TD's
I can't believe that was the best argument you could come up with. I wish you could have the "edit" button back.
Quote:
maybe you'll "convince" some braindead around here, but they're your last resort anyway as I've argued elsewhere.
And yet you try so hard to win the approval of the "brain-dead."
Quote:
Both have HIGH ceilings and I'd argue a potentially "only" GOOD QB is worth more in this league than a potentially GREAT RB
Richardson's ceiling is SOOO much higher. At 30, Weeden is only going to get so much better. His ceiling is Joe Flacco, and the clock is ticking on that.
Richardson's ceiling is probably somewhere between Peterson and Ray Rice. In fact, Rice is the guy I equate Richardson to.
If Richardson gives us 6 years of 1300 yards and 60 catches while protecting the QB like he does, he'll have been a major home-run for this organization.
If Weeden manages 5 years of ratings in the 85-range, he'll have been a failure for the Browns, and here's a fact: If Weeden is 33-years old and sports a career 85 rating, he'll be somewhere else besides the Orange and White.
Now I want people to REALLY and HONESTLY think about that one for a moment. Ask yourselves this question:
"How many teams in the NFL are going to be content going into a season with a 33-year old QB whose career rating is 85?"
That is a VERY sobering thought for any Browns fan.
Essentially, Brandon Weeden is going to have to make a BIG leap next year in order to even have a shot at reaching that age as our starter...and that's assuming he even gets that chance by sticking on the roster.
Quote:
Back to siding with the pitchfork people, then snake tonguing "wanting to give Weeds another year". Hypocrisy at his finest yet again
If the "pitchfork people" include NFL and media talking heads, yep, I'm with them. They know that Weeden was a huge gamble, and that he disappointed as a rookie.
When the entire football world states Richardson has a great future then turns right around and can't even state for sure that Weeden will get a 2nd year with the Browns because he did anything but show a great upside, well...The "Nay's" have it.
As for me wanting Weeden to have another year, you may want to open up Websters.com and look up "hypocrisy."
Being critical of a player while saying he deserves a little more time doesn't even remotely fit the definition of that word.
But nevermind that. This is about how ridiculous the gamble was to go after Weeden with the 22nd pick in the draft.
If he develops and gives us 3-5 great years, I'll eat the crow and admit I'm wrong. If he flames out, well, I believe you'll be 0-2 on QB's in the last couple of drafts. Unless I've been told wrong, weren't you a big Blaine Gabbert pimp? 
(Yeah, sorry, low blow  ).
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,587
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,587 |
You can pick and choose stats all you want ...... and you'll still never get the whole picture.
Richardson ran for 950 yards. That was good for 18th in the NFL. Yea. He's a star!
He averaged only 3.6 yards/attempt ..... good for somewhere on page 4 among all rushers. Boo. He's a bum.
He scored 11 rushing TDs, good for 5th in the NFL. Yea. He's a star!
He had only 2 runs of 20+ yards .... good for somewhere on page 2 of all rushers. Boo. He's a bum.
He was tied for 7th in the NFL for most rushing attempts/game, and gained 950 yards. Yea. The guy he was tied with in rushing attempts/game was Jamaal Charles, who gained 1509 yards. Boo. Obviously he's a bum.
My point is that you cannot look strictly at stats. It's obvious that Richardson was hurt this year, and his productivity has to be looked at through that prism. Further, he worked with a rookie QB, and we had a total of 4 rookie starters on offense, (WR, RT, QB, and RB, and with rookies Benjamin and Cooper receiving playing time) and 2nd year players Little, Marecic, and Cameron also receiving playing time.
This was a young offense, and we lost our starting LG to injury.
Richardson has to be looked at through that collective prism.
Same for Weeden. We have no idea what is going to happen next year, but this year he played as a rookie starter, on a team with rookies also starting at RB, WR, and RT. He was playing in an unfamiliar offense. He also had a RB who took almost every opportunity down close for TDs.
Weeden was 19th in the NFL in passing. He brought the big play back to the pass offense. He wasn't perfect, and he appeared to have a dead arm late in the season even before be got hurt. His first game was abysmal. He showed some improvement in some areas as the season progressed, and struggled in others. In other words, he was a rookie.
With a new coach and staff coming in, who knows what will happen with any of our players. However the cherry picking of stats and peeing contests are really getting old.
Oh ... and the Browns are the "Orange and Brown" ..... not the "Orange and White".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307 |
I really do hate to side with Toad! But any time you draft the fourth overall QB in the draft and he's 29 years old, that's a huge gamble. To me, that's the title of the thread and the question at hand. It's not about if Weeden succeeds or which one will end up being better. To me, it's about draft day and which one posed the bigger gamble at the time they were selected. And I'd say that since a 29 year old QB had never been selected in any draft, that in and of itself speaks volumes. So no matter who ends up being better, if you strictly look at draft day, drafting Weeden was a much bigger gamble than drafting TRich IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I agree with you and Toad but would like to comment on this by Django.. Quote:
Both have HIGH ceilings and I'd argue a potentially "only" GOOD QB is worth more in this league than a potentially GREAT RB
Gamble is about odds and return on investment... TRich, if he is healthy is almost a lock to at least be a good, if not great, RB for a long time in the NFL.. Weeden has a much bigger boom/bust factor... that makes him a bigger gamble...
To put it in other terms, we drafted TRich higher, therefore the price is higher.. but drafting TRich is like buying a utility company stock, the price is high, the return is pretty stable and predictable... Weeden is a dotcom start-up stock, the price was lower but the return could be anywhere from a fortune to you losing everything quickly... So by the very definition of the word gamble.. Weeden is by far the bigger gamble.
Quarterbacks whose ceiling is "good" get replaced all the time in the NFL... not many go out and draft a RB high in the draft if they already have a good one on the roster...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Toad hiding behind the homers to make a point, even making sure to get the right answers by his choice of words of the thread title (as everyone knows who the bigger gamble was)
And that's me quoting me in the 3rd post of this "discussion"
The QB ALWAYS is the bigger gamble, even if we drafted a punter at 3. What's the point? What's the question here? Who's the bigger gamble? Sure, it's always the QB, but that's a given. But an actual GM has to draft players for ALL positions and when you don't have a QB on your roster worth a damn, you have to draft one, simple as that.
Any GM could draft "safe" if he just drafts RBs, Gs and MLBs. Well done, Sir, but his team would be lousy. That's where VALUE comes into play, but I don't expect anyone on here to understand it by now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Weeden's "window" to get more time as a starter is only open for one more season. Richardson's is open quite a bit longer. Ergo...why TRich was a far better gamble.
and if I drafted Janikowski or a punter at 22, he'd be the "better gamble", but not better value. 2 terms you seem to mix together. Ergo....your point is as useless as it was before.
Quote:
See, even if Richardson misses some time next year with broken ribs or from having a backup QB tumbling on the back of his legs, he'll still be the starting RB for the Browns.
I'd not be so sure about that, ask Moreno or Matthews
Quote:
Richardson missed camp and played most of the year with broken ribs yet still produced and is widely viewed as in a very positive light by the vast majority of the league.
Brandon Weeden isn't even viewed as a lock to make the roster after a year where he disappointed as a rookie in almost every important category.
Both are about the same in total numbers and as crappy in AVG numbers. One is a QB drafted at 22 the other a RB drafted at 3. I'm still more disappointed in the latter
Quote:
In the simplest terms, you're talking about the greater reward for the risk. That is NOT the same as which guy is the better gamble.
Sure, because "the better gamble" is a useless measuring stick. Since Heckert didn't draft in a vacuum, he drafted for the Browns. You still like to pretend and compare the 2 as if we're talking vacuum, that's not how the draft works. That's homer armchair GMing.
Quote:
So, bringing it all the way back to whether or not Weeden was a bigger gamble,
Hello McFly? Read post no3 of this thread. That's not worth a discussion, lol. You act as if you say someting smart, but what you say is a given and go all semantics on me for making arguments that go beyond your captain obvious claim. Everyone KNOWS that Weeden was the bigger gamble. He is a QB, TRIch a RB. What? You gonna tell me the earth isn't flat anymore? I'm impressed. It's like starting a thread about "let's compare colours" and calling it "green" and then trash anyone who doesn't say "green"...yeah, pretty pointless, isn't it?
Quote:
Oh, sure, you think you're gonna be able to hang your cherry-picking stat-hat on both of their 3.6 yards per carry, but that's probably the weakest argument in a year-long debacle of weak arguments you've made....
I can't believe that was the best argument you could come up with. I wish you could have the "edit" button back.
Saying play-by-play efficacy is "probably the weakest argument in the world" is pretty telling, I'll leave it at that....as for your TOTAL numbers yet again, since you seem to be a fan of them. Here's a direct question: Did Weeden have a better running game supporting him in 2013 than McCoy in 2012? Because, you know, that's the whole point. Did we have a better running game THIS year than last? I don't see it, and an incredibly LARGE sample size of runs suggest otherwise too. It was the same....go the "injury" route, it's your best bet to come out of it with not so much egg on it
Quote:
And yet you try so hard to win the approval of the "brain-dead."
Nice slip of the tongue as "win approval" is probably what you seem to aim at. I'm making points against a stupid agenda which you happen to be the frontrunner for. I could care less about approval, never had it on here anyway. You've always been the Frank Sinatra of this board
Quote:
Richardson's ceiling is SOOO much higher. At 30, Weeden is only going to get so much better. His ceiling is Joe Flacco, and the clock is ticking on that.
Richardson's ceiling is probably somewhere between Peterson and Ray Rice. In fact, Rice is the guy I equate Richardson to.
If Richardson gives us 6 years of 1300 yards and 60 catches while protecting the QB like he does, he'll have been a major home-run for this organization.
The politician finally made a statement. Something between Peterson and Rice, we'll see going forward and you'll here from me. Start praying. AP is AP, we all know how sick good he is and Rice AVG over 4.5ypc and around 70 catches a season.
Props for sticking to your high ceiling comment and not backtrack as you did some months ago when you said it'd be ok if he was a 2nd or 3rd tier RB. I really mean the props, as you finally stuck your neck out. I have a slightly higher ceiling for Weeden but my comp has always been Cutler, so we're not too far off here. I'll disagree with the 85 QBr comment though. If that's his AVG in the next season that'd make him an AVG NFL QB...at 22 with no further picks invested, that's good value. Obviously we simply disagree here
Quote:
"How many teams in the NFL are going to be content going into a season with a 33-year old QB whose career rating is 85?"
That is a VERY sobering thought for any Browns fan.
Sobering huh? Maybe you should ask the Raiders or Giants fans as they ARE in this situation You think they're gonna tell you their biggest problem is their QB? Eli's career QBr is 82.7 and was lower for his first 4 (!) seasons than Weeden's since week 2. Do people even realize how dumb it'd be to dump Weeden already?
Quote:
They know that Weeden was a huge gamble, and that he disappointed as a rookie.
Disappointed as a rook, huh? Go read the paragraph before
Quote:
If he develops and gives us 3-5 great years, I'll eat the crow and admit I'm wrong. If he flames out, well, I believe you'll be 0-2 on QB's in the last couple of drafts. Unless I've been told wrong, weren't you a big Blaine Gabbert pimp?
(Yeah, sorry, low blow ).
No low blow, just usual Toad agenda and double-standard, as you seem to think Gabbert (and somewhat Weeden) is a closed book after 1 and a half seasons but turn around and say that TRich would still be a starting RB if he limps through 2013 again. At least you've stuck your neck out a little...you always do that when I get you mad and you've always had to regret it for not staying on that fence
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Ergo....your point is as useless as it was before.
You say this and then write a small novel refuting every point one by one... that's odd. If the whole premise behind his argument is useless, why spend half an hour picking every sentence apart?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307 |
Quote:
Both are about the same in total numbers and as crappy in AVG numbers. One is a QB drafted at 22 the other a RB drafted at 3. I'm still more disappointed in the latter
One played with broken ribs for nine weeks and the other one didn't. But don't let the facts get in your way.
Carry on.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Quote:
Ergo....your point is as useless as it was before.
You say this and then write a small novel refuting every point one by one... that's odd. If the whole premise behind his argument is useless, why spend half an hour picking every sentence apart?
Because not his whole post was about comparing TRich to Weeden. The short version of what I think of the premise of this thread can be read in post no3 in here.
Btw, while we're at it...what's your expectation level of TRich and Weeden?
Maybe we cut all the BS out and stick out our necks a bit? Toad and I have done that already....let's play folks
For me:
TRich:
Ceiling: R.Bush...reversed speed/power version, limited carries, great receiver and blocker
Floor: K.Moreno...ok, but nothing special, tough time staying healthy and getting over 4ypc
Weeden:
Ceiling: something between Cutler and Roethli, maybe Schaub?...AVG to good NFL pocket QB
Floor: actually agree with Toad, Henne is a good comp but I go with Jason Campbell, just for fun
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Quote:
Both are about the same in total numbers and as crappy in AVG numbers. One is a QB drafted at 22 the other a RB drafted at 3. I'm still more disappointed in the latter
One played with broken ribs for nine weeks and the other one didn't. But don't let the facts get in your way.
Carry on.......
I will, because I repeatedly said I wouldn't draft a RB with bum knees that high. You guys act as if those "injuries" came out of the blue....they didn't, it was the RISK attached to TRich, so it has to be weighed too into the equation when we talk about value and risk/reward....and which part of his 3.8ypc did you like BEFORE he broke those ribs? You act as if he was a stud before...he wasn't. He was dancing, not getting 1st downs and did not make much of a difference in the games he played. He was part of that 0-5 start too, you know? Then his rib injury and the production got even worse (barely over 3ypc against bum run Ds).
I'd love to be as naive and faithful with regards to TRich, but to act as if we will EVER see the Bama TRich again, is pretty optimistic imho
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,871
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,871 |
I'll play:
Richardson: will have more good productive years than Weeden, although his knees will hurt his longevity. My guess is he's got 3-5 years in him.
Weeden: Might be a starter for us next year. If not, he'll make a good 2nd or 3rd string qb somewhere. My guess is he'll be out of the league in 2-3 years. He's got a fairly decent arm (although watching the Pit game with Lewis at qb, I was surprised how he put some oomph in his throws), he is NOT accurate, he is not mobile, can't read a defense yet, and shows very little leadership.
Advantage: Richardson.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76,307 |
Quote:
I will, because I repeatedly said I wouldn't draft a RB with bum knees that high. You guys act as if those "injuries" came out of the blue....they didn't, it was the RISK attached to TRich, so it has to be weighed too into the equation when we talk about value and risk/reward
I had no idea that... "The rib bone's connected to the... knee bone."
So I take it you wouldn't have drafted AD then as well? He had injury concerns coming into the draft that were worse than TRich.
Quote:
....and which part of his 3.8ypc did you like BEFORE he broke those ribs? You act as if he was a stud before...he wasn't. He was dancing, not getting 1st downs and did not make much of a difference in the games he played. He was part of that 0-5 start too, you know? Then his rib injury and the production got even worse (barely over 3ypc against bum run Ds).
You can sit here all day and try to convince people our run blocking was good early this year but it wasn't. It's still not very good and we don't have one mauling, run blocking G. It did improve some over the course of the season though. Not much, but some.
Somehow you feel one is not directly connected to the other, but it most certainly is.
Quote:
I'd love to be as naive and faithful with regards to TRich, but to act as if we will EVER see the Bama TRich again, is pretty optimistic imho
I know, everyone on this board.... accept you of course, doesn't have a clue, we're naive and you are the all powerful and knowing DJ.
Do you even hear yourself right now? Because the rest of us do.
It's sounds rather sad, self serving and demeaning to everyone else who posts on this board. And let me tell you Bud, you ain't all that and a bag of chips. Even when you do make valid points, which you do sometimes, you hurt yourself with this kind of BS. And nobody bats 1000 so you really need to get over yourself.
TRich has the goods. He has the talent and according to your own assertions, you would never have drafted AD at #3. Look up both of their ijury histories before they entered the draft and get back to me.
Am I saying Trich will be the next AD? No I'm not, but I would bet you he'll be a top 5 NFL RB if we get better run blocking.
And how does that "knee bone's connected to the........ rib bone" thing work again exactly?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Btw, while we're at it...what's your expectation level of TRich and Weeden?
Maybe we cut all the BS out and stick out our necks a bit? Toad and I have done that already....let's play folks
For me:
TRich:
Ceiling: R.Bush...reversed speed/power version, limited carries, great receiver and blocker
Floor: K.Moreno...ok, but nothing special, tough time staying healthy and getting over 4ypc
Weeden:
Ceiling: something between Cutler and Roethli, maybe Schaub?...AVG to good NFL pocket QB
Floor: actually agree with Toad, Henne is a good comp but I go with Jason Campbell, just for fun
Trent Richardson...
Best comp - Frank Gore
Brandon Weeden...
Best comp - Neil O'Donnell
I'm not going to give floors because Richardson could stay hurt and never see the field and Weeden could be coaching high school baseball in 2 years... so what's the point in giving a floor or a ceiling for that matter... those are the two players these guys remind me of...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
No, I would not have drafted AP because I wanted one of Thomas or Calvin Johnson. Since I prayed for Al Davis to take Russell, those were my two top choices at 3
As for the injuries, his knee has been sliced open at least twice. If you think this has no effect on his productivity, god bless ya. The rib injury is used as an excuse, I was disappointed with TRich well before that injury and back then he "only" had the "rehabbing knee"
I'll happily eat crow if he reaches Gore or Rice level consistently. I'd be already happy with a R.Bush like player considering his knee
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The bigger gamble: Richardson or
Weeden?
|
|
