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If shurmur was a lamb duck your right no difference. He was judged before the season began. lest you forget.
If you dont talk to him all year you knew all along his fate. Same difference.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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To people who still believe that honesty is indeed the best policy,alot.
To fire them midway through the season would be the dishonest thing. Banner/Haslam said they would give Shurmur/Heckert the whole season.
No they said they would evaluate them and make a choice at the end of the season. Now if you already know that you are not going to evaluate them and not even interact with them you are a classless person.
This is your new Browns. If people want to get on Mike for keeping Mangini how can they not blame Haslam and Banner for keeping Shurmur when they know he was going to be canned? 
The Mangini/Holmgren situation was completely different. MH decided to keep him for another season despite differences in philosophy. Haslam and Banner stated from the beginning that nothing would change until after the season ended. Imagine the backlash that would have happened if they went back on their word! The hate and discontent is a result of the unknown. Speculation is clouding many minds instead of taking things at face value.
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If people want to get on Mike for keeping Mangini how can they not blame Haslam and Banner for keeping Shurmur when they know he was going to be canned?
Holmgren kept Mangini for an entire season (because he won the last four games). Haslam/Banner kept Shurmur for half a season.
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No they said they would evaluate them and make a choice at the end of the season.
Isn't that what they did?
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Now if you already know that you are not going to evaluate them and not even interact with them you are a classless person.
Shurmur, a guy who is about to be fired, said he hasn't talked to them in "awhile." If Banner said he did talk to him, who would you believe? Why? How do we know that didn't evaluate them?
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Well, first, my guess is that Pat didn't talk to him about his job all year. Pat knew what he had to do to keep his job, I don't think he needed to run to Haslam for a minute to minute update.
But no, Pat wasn't a lame duck. He had his chance to make a case, and he blew it. It's not like Haslam could have fired him and hired the guy he really wanted in midseason or during training camp.
you had a good run Hank.
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All Pro
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What you said. Not to mention Shurmer and Co. had a 3 game winning streak and lots of folks were drooling all over their keyboard. I could imagine if he fired him after that.
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People are upset because they hate Haslam and Banner for no reason and they will find any reason to hate them even if it is made up.
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People are upset because they hate Haslam and Banner for no reason and they will find any reason to hate them even if it is made up.
Rofl and some love them for the same reason. I didnt like Shurmur thought he never should have been hired. Ill talk to you in 3 years and we will see where this team is because these 3 year plans alway seem to work out.
Just keep believeing in your new marketing owners caring about anything on the field and not about whats in your wallet.
Mark my words you will wish for a GM like Heckert in 3 years.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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J/C
We've all watched the games. I think Pat Shurmer is getting way too much heat for what has happened. I have seen poor execution by the team, I have seen dropped passes, poorly thrown passes, and misreads all year. On the play Weeden was injured in during the Denver game, Von Miller blitzed and our tight end looked for the ball immediately - a read that Weeden needs to make pre-snap. Not to mention all of the poorly thrown balls during the Philly game. - Not Pat Shurmer's fault. We have one of the youngest rosters in the league. There were wide open plays to be made during the Pittsburgh game, but again, the execution is not there yet. It would have been nice to watch this develop.
I think it is incredibly arrogant and negligent of Joe Banner to come in with his mind made up and not even talk to the coaching staff. - If these guys are good enough for Mike Holmgren to hire, then they are certainly good enough for Joe Banner to consider. If Haslam and Banner considered what is best for the team, then they would have at least evaluated the current philosophy and reviewed the planning and progress to this point. Instead, Joe Banner has come in and stated that he will have final say over personnel moves. - Why? This man knows nothing about professional football, let alone developing a roster. How is having his input on the roster better for the team than Heckert's input was?
I'm really ticked off about what is about to happen tomorrow and this might be the deal breaker for me. I promise you guys that if Tom Heckert is let go and an unproven GM is brought in, this will end in disaster. Save yourselves the time and money and start rooting for another team because the Browns are going to be very, very, bad over the next few years. - I promise.
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Joe Banner has come in and stated that he will have final say over personnel moves.
I keep seeing this and have yet to see definitive proof that it is true.
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Just keep believeing in your new marketing owners caring about anything on the field and not about whats in your wallet.
The alternative is Randy Lerner. I'll take the new guys.
Winning = money
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Is anyone troubled by Shurmur saying he hasn't had any contact with Joe or Jimmy in the past few weeks? I'd toss that up as a strike against both men.
Well what has taken place the past several weeks? The Holidays 
Thanksgiving, Christmas and yes Passover. Maybe they have been busy with family and shopping  Or maybe just maybe they were interviewing his replacement 
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Joe Banner has come in and stated that he will have final say over personnel moves.
I keep seeing this and have yet to see definitive proof that it is true.
I agree Joe has said he prefers the coach has final say which means that the highest up in the org that is actually a football person would be the coach.
Nice plan.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I just have to say this .....
I have been a very vocal critic of Shurmur ...... but I really felt bad for him when listening to his postgame presser. All anyone wanted to talk about was "Are you fired?", "Have you been told anything yet?", "Do you have any regrets, or things you would have done differently?" ....... and so on.
I truly believe that he does like this particular group of players, and of course he wants to remain as the head coach here. He really did get a crappy deal ...... playing all youngsters, with the inevitable growing pains and mistakes ...... and basically setting up the foundation for someone else. He knows what the story is ...... but man, I'm sure that he doesn't want to rehash it over and over and over and over again.
I truly think that Shurmur did the best he could, and I also think that Holmgren interfered more than he should have .......
Shurmur stayed committed to the youth process, even though it wasn't the best path to the maximum number of wins.
I wish him well, as long as he lands outside of our division.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I just have to say this .....
I have been a very vocal critic of Shurmur ...... but I really felt bad for him when listening to his postgame presser. All anyone wanted to talk about was "Are you fired?", "Have you been told anything yet?", "Do you have any regrets, or things you would have done differently?" ....... and so on.
I truly believe that he does like this particular group of players, and of course he wants to remain as the head coach here. He really did get a crappy deal ...... playing all youngsters, with the inevitable growing pains and mistakes ...... and basically setting up the foundation for someone else. He knows what the story is ...... but man, I'm sure that he doesn't want to rehash it over and over and over and over again.
I truly think that Shurmur did the best he could, and I also think that Holmgren interfered more than he should have .......
Shurmur stayed committed to the youth process, even though it wasn't the best path to the maximum number of wins.
I wish him well, as long as he lands outside of our division.
I said somewhere else I felt bad for Pat as well. Not because I thought he was good but because I think he believed in what we where building here and and the players.
I wont miss him but I do feel he did his best.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I dont believe change for the sake of change is wise.
Whatever they do better produce results now, Not patient enough for a three year plan when we were heading in a good direction.
And if Mike Lombardi is in the plan I'll throw in the towel.
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All anyone wanted to talk about was "Are you fired?", "Have you been told anything yet?", "Do you have any regrets, or things you would have done differently?" ....... and so on.
I also felt bad. Shurmur seems to be a quality human. But they are reporters, the story is the firing.
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I wish him well, as long as he lands outside of our division.
I was kind of hoping for the opposite. Wouldn't it be nice to see Roethlisberger, Flacco, or Dalton turn into Captain Checkdown? Also, all three of our division rivals could have a offensive coordinator opening also (Gruden could leave to be a head coach, Caldwell could easily be replaced, and Haley is hated by Roethlisberger and might go back to the Cardinals as the OC or head coach).
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Instead, Joe Banner has come in and stated that he will have final say over personnel movesQuote:
Link Please. I believe Jimmy said he wants to be involved on major decisions too. To let someone make decisions without getting any feedback from their boss or a "stamp of approval" is stupid. So Joe and Jimmy should have NO say in any way when it comes to players? What kind of idiots do you take them for?
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. - Why? This man knows nothing about professional football, let alone developing a roster.
Based on your statement Jimmy just turned a 1 billion dollar investment over to a man who spent what 17 years in the NFL and learned nothing? I think you would be better served if you stayed away from reading what people say on the internet. Just in case no one ever told you this before, Not everything you read on the internet or the Plain Dealer is true.
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I'm confused in whether you don't completely understand what's transpiring or you've got a hidden agenda.
You're as happy as a pig in poop,speculating on who willbe the new GM and the next HC.
As of tomorrow,all of the coaches,the training staff,the scouting staff,they will be gone.No one,let me repeat that,no one worth a crap will be coming here.With Jimmy and Joe in the war room on draft day,the idiocy will soon become comical.
The game day experience will become more enjoyable,we'll not win,but yo'll be able to show your ticket stub at Pilot and get a free shower,10-4 good buddy.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I'm confused in whether you don't completely understand what's transpiring
We have a new owner. New owner's want their own people, what am I missing?
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or you've got a hidden agenda.
I was planted in January of 2009 by Joe Banner to try and convince people he is good at his job. You caught me.
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You're as happy as a pig in poop
When did I say I was happy?
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speculating on who willbe the new GM and the next HC.
We are firing our general manager and head coach as soon as tomorrow, shouldn't their replacements be a topic of conversation?
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As of tomorrow,all of the coaches,the training staff,the scouting staff,they will be gone.
Yes, and? Isn't this what happens when a new owner comes in? Am I missing something?
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No one,let me repeat that,no one worth a crap will be coming here.
Two people worth a crap (Scheiner and Stehlik) have already come here.
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The alternative is Randy Lerner. I'll take the new guys.
Fans = money
Fixed it for ya, never confuse the 2. I assure you they dont as you will soon find out.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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The fans will leave, eventually, if there is no winning.
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They have to hit this out of the park IMO.
The years without the team were less stressful to watch than watching folly after folly go down since 1999. It's been pathetic! Barely resembled a professional club on or off the field.
Football was easier to watch when I was a neutral fan.
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Two people worth a crap (Scheiner and Stehlik) have already come here.
And what exactly are they? Marketing people Not Football people.
yeah great hires to help build this team into anything better on the field.
Keep trying.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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The addition of two marketeers will lead to how many victories?
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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The fans will leave, eventually, if there is no winning.
Well if after the team left the city and 13 years of losing we have not left Im not sure what makes you believe that for a second.
many are already to go through another 3 years of losing and if the new guys get it right. If they get it wrong they are still willing much as you to say well they are new at this.
No hate to say it but you are wrong. Way wrong.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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They'll push the new gear, with the revised colors and possible emblem!
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Two people worth a crap (Scheiner and Stehlik) have already come here.
And what exactly are they? Marketing people Not Football people.
yeah great hires to help build this team into anything better on the field.
Keep trying.
Huh? Of course no one on the football side has been hired yet. The season hasn't even ended. Our current head coach and general manager haven't been terminated. How fast do you expect them to work?
Keep trying?
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I'm confused in whether you don't completely understand what's transpiring or you've got a hidden agenda.
You're as happy as a pig in poop,speculating on who willbe the new GM and the next HC.
As of tomorrow,all of the coaches,the training staff,the scouting staff,they will be gone.No one,let me repeat that,no one worth a crap will be coming here.With Jimmy and Joe in the war room on draft day,the idiocy will soon become comical.
The game day experience will become more enjoyable,we'll not win,but yo'll be able to show your ticket stub at Pilot and get a free shower,10-4 good buddy.
This is comical. The sky is falling!!!!
At least we see Haslam watching his investment, whereas, Randy was the polar opposite and had little interest in the Browns. If people want to speculate, I guess I'll add one to the thread. It's clear why we've seen so many regime changes under Lerner: he wanted so badly to get a quick winner on the field to yield the most profitable sale once 10 years had passed after is father's death.
All this is crazy. The team wasn't improving and we had one of the worst coaches on the sideline calling the shots since our return. The record shows. With better personnel we couldn't get more wins. So should we keep the people calling the shots and remain stagnant? Anybody look at next year's schedule? It's not going to get easier. We desperately need a group of people on the sideline that know what they are doing. While the defense has shown great qualities in spurts and the offense has shown the ability to move the ball effectively sometimes, in the end we are in the same 4-5 win season we've had since 2008. Oh, but we're headed in the right direction with this staff! I guess we fall in love with mediocrity. 
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Two people worth a crap (Scheiner and Stehlik) have already come here.
And what exactly are they? Marketing people Not Football people.
yeah great hires to help build this team into anything better on the field.
Keep trying.
Where does the money come from to make improvements to the stadium? To create world class facilities so when top FA come to town they see all the player friendly toys and stuff. This money comes from these worthless non football pencil pushers. By putting a dome on the stadium and all the jobs and taxes it will bring to a city that is broke. Events like a national political convention, super bowls, college bowl games, and etc. But oh yea we don't care about that right.
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My God,I post some really dumb stuff after I've been drinking,but it's nothing compared to your idiotic ramblings.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Just look at the GAME DAY series and you know he's a marketing guy!
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My God,I post some really dumb stuff after I've been drinking,but it's nothing compared to your idiotic ramblings.
Please, break down my "idiotic ramble" for me since you couldn't come up with a better reply.
Simple fact, no progress means a change is needed. If somebody buys a franchise, they are not going to keep the old staff if things aren't looking good on the field or in the win loss department.
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As of tomorrow,all of the coaches,the training staff,the scouting staff,they will be gone.
According to the Haslam/Banner press conference and Tom Heckert the entire scouting staff will be retained.
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As of tomorrow,all of the coaches,the training staff,the scouting staff,they will be gone.
According to the Haslam/Banner press conference and Tom Heckert the entire scouting staff will be retained.
I was kinda suprised about that but it does make sense. They have all the reports etc and why let Tom take them (and the reports knowledge etc) with him to an opponent.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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Where does the money come from to make improvements to the stadium? To create world class facilities so when top FA come to town they see all the player friendly toys and stuff. This money comes from these worthless non football pencil pushers. By putting a dome on the stadium and all the jobs and taxes it will bring to a city that is broke. Events like a national political convention, super bowls, college bowl games, and etc. But oh yea we don't care about that right.
As Browns fans and a Browns fan message board, I'd say we care a LOT MORE about winning football games!
But hey, that's just me.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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As of tomorrow,all of the coaches,the training staff,the scouting staff,they will be gone.
According to the Haslam/Banner press conference and Tom Heckert the entire scouting staff will be retained.
Aren't scouting dept changes usually done after the draft with regime changes?
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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It seems like they would have kept Heckert if he would have relinquished his final say over the roster (if I was him I wouldn't have done that either, he is going to get another job immediately).
Haslam/Banner just want a different structure then we currently have. That structure does not involve a GM with final say. People who wanted Heckert, that includes me, to stay should be happy that his scouting staff is being retained. They are the ones who helped him make the picks he did.
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It seems like they would have kept Heckert if he would have relinquished his final say over the roster (if I was him I wouldn't have done that either, he is going to get another job immediately).
Haslam/Banner just want a different structure then we currently have. That structure does not involve a GM with final say. People who wanted Heckert, that includes me, to stay should be happy that his scouting staff is being retained. They are the ones who helped him make the picks he did.
I agree with that, I'm very happy we kept the scouting staff. Hopefully with the new structure they will still have input into building our board.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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The scouting staff will almost inevitably be fired - it will just happen after the draft (when scouting hires and fires are traditionally made) instead of at the end of the season.
~Lyuokdea
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The scouting staff will almost inevitably be fired - it will just happen after the draft (when scouting hires and fires are traditionally made) instead of at the end of the season.
Exactly.
Other than maybe the scouting director and maybe a couple of cross checkers, scouts are on yearly contracts that run draft to draft.
As has been stated by Haslam, this crew is here for this year. You couldn't blow it up now even if you wanted since everybody is already working for some team until the end of April....that is unless you wanted to bring in a bunch of "scouts" who have never scouted for a NFL team or guys not good enough to already be employed.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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