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I think Hiring Chip Kelly (or any coach with NO NFL experience) would/will be an unmitigated disaster.
They're looking for a coach to make a big "splash". They're not thinking about the big "thud" in 2-3 years when we're still not winning.
The only thing that may stop the Kelly train would be that Banner won't give him the roster/Draft power that he wants. I hope that will be the case.
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Quote:
I think Hiring Chip Kelly (or any coach with NO NFL experience) would/will be an unmitigated disaster.
They're looking for a coach to make a big "splash". They're not thinking about the big "thud" in 2-3 years when we're still not winning.
We've hired highly touted NFL coordinators, college coaches with NFL coordinator experience, less obvious NFL coordinators, coaches with NFL head coaching experience.... and every single one of them has landed with a thud 2-3 years in when we still weren't winning...
yebat' Putin
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Ultimately, IMO, our success will be determined by our QB play.
If we get Chip Kelly, I want Tajh Boyd from Clemson. He has decent speed, with a nice arm and accuracy to go along with it.
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I'd like someone to name me a guy that has been named a HC in the NFL with absolutely NO NFL experience that has been even remotely successful.
I can't think of one.
Sure, our past coaches got canned after 2-3 years. But they had a lot of help getting canned from our crappy FOs.
This past FO at least showed promise. More promise than any previous one.
Maybe these new guys are right. I hope so. I just don't have any good feelings about what's happening to back up that hope.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
Quote:
I think Hiring Chip Kelly (or any coach with NO NFL experience) would/will be an unmitigated disaster.
They're looking for a coach to make a big "splash". They're not thinking about the big "thud" in 2-3 years when we're still not winning.
We've hired highly touted NFL coordinators, college coaches with NFL coordinator experience, less obvious NFL coordinators, coaches with NFL head coaching experience.... and every single one of them has landed with a thud 2-3 years in when we still weren't winning...
The only constant in that statement is: Time. We've never given a regime time to carry out the entire plan.
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Quote:
I'd like someone to name me a guy that has been named a HC in the NFL with absolutely NO NFL experience that has been even remotely successful.
I can't think of one.
Sure, our past coaches got canned after 2-3 years. But they had a lot of help getting canned from our crappy FOs.
This past FO at least showed promise. More promise than any previous one.
Maybe these new guys are right. I hope so. I just don't have any good feelings about what's happening to back up that hope.
Paul Brown. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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The only constant in that statement is: Time. We've never given a regime time to carry out the entire plan.
I understand your point, but here's my question.
Which of our last coaches would you have stuck with? Romeo? He was there for four seasons.
How about Pat Shurmur? Is that your plan? Stick with him? Cause I don't think he's a good head coach.
Eric Mangini would have made sense, but he didn't fit the bill when we brought in Heckert and Holmgren. Hiring Mangini the way we did made no sense at all, we should have had some sort of GM type above him to control his power. And I liked Mangini, but we needed a GM who wanted him to be the coach running the show with him so we don't draft the way we did in his 1st year.
Butch Davis? Who was before him, that guy who coached the offense for the Texans?
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The real problem has been having a poor GM. Savage was ok and probably fits the role our new guy GM/Personal director will have. Advance scout with Banner handling the Draft/contracts/FA and the Coach the Roster.
Both Davis and Mangini shot themselves by tring to play GM. Rac for some reason cant get it done. We have never had the combination of good GM and good Coach at the same time.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
The real problem has been having a poor GM. Savage was ok and probably fits the role our new guy GM/Personal director will have. Advance scout with Banner handling the Draft/contracts/FA and the Coach the Roster.
Both Davis and Mangini shot themselves by tring to play GM. Rac for some reason cant get it done. We have never had the combination of good GM and good Coach at the same time.
Exactly, now, who should we have given more time to?
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Quote:
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The real problem has been having a poor GM. Savage was ok and probably fits the role our new guy GM/Personal director will have. Advance scout with Banner handling the Draft/contracts/FA and the Coach the Roster.
Both Davis and Mangini shot themselves by tring to play GM. Rac for some reason cant get it done. We have never had the combination of good GM and good Coach at the same time.
Exactly, now, who should we have given more time to?
Heckert? 
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Heckert?
I was really referring to our head coaches. I'm a Heckert fan as well, apparently he and Banner can't be on the same page and Heckert can't be our GM. That's that. Banner is the guy Haslem trusts running his franchise, and Banner doesn't want Heckert or Heckert doesn't want a reduced role with Banner
But in the past, what head coach should have been given more time. Only one I can think of is Mangini, and the reason he wasn't was because Holmgren wanted his WCO and a fellow like Pat Squirmer.
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 01/02/13 11:50 AM.
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Paul Brown.
I should have also said someone who was a first time HC in the last 50 years.... 
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Quote:
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Heckert?
I was really referring to our head coaches. I'm a Heckert fan as well, apparently he and Banner can't be on the same page and Heckert can't be our GM. That's that. Banner is the guy Haslem trusts running his franchise, and Banner doesn't want Heckert or Heckert doesn't want a reduced role with Banner
But in the past, what head coach should have been given more time. Only one I can think of is Mangini, and the reason he wasn't was because Holmgren wanted his WCO and a fellow like Pat Squirmer.
I dont think your going to find alot of people who disagree. 90%+ of us know that Heckert was good. Thats why Banner has to get this right. If he hires a great Coach and they mess up the personal side of the ball it wont matter, in 3 years we will be be plummeting back to the basement.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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If he hires a great Coach and they mess up the personal side of the ball it wont matter, in 3 years we will be be plummeting back to the basement.
Don't you have to be out of the basement to plummet back to the basement?
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But in the past, what head coach should have been given more time. Only one I can think of is Mangini, and the reason he wasn't was because Holmgren wanted his WCO and a fellow like Pat Squirmer.
Ehh... pretty sure Mangini was let go because he went 5-11 two seasons in a row.
Back to your question... I don't think I would have given ANY of the head coaches we've had since 1999 more time than they got. The list is long and painful to look at.
I would have been OK with Shurmur for one more year to see if the kids continued to develop under him had JimmyJoe gone that direction. I'm not at all surprised they decided not to do that. As Pat said himself: "we didn't win enough games."
All I'm going to say at this time is that it will be interesting to see what an owner who is both financially AND emotionally invested in this team will do to turn things around. The next decision I have to make is whether or not to continue to invest in season tickets. I waited until, literally, the last minute to renew for this past year. I'll probably do the same this year as I watch events unfold leading up to the renewal deadline. C'mon JimmyJoe... give me something... anything... to get excited about. Give me a reason to plunk down some hard-earned (and dwindling) discretionary income on your product.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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I'd like someone to name me a guy that has been named a HC in the NFL with absolutely NO NFL experience that has been even remotely successful.
Jimmy Johnson
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Jimmy Johnson
Hey, there is one. Of course, having Emmitt Smith, Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin sure didn't hurt his coaching abilities in Dallas.
But even Dan Marino couldn't put him over the top in Miami.
Still, if Chip Kelly can come close to that I'd be happy.
I just don't think he will.
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I don't know why I clicked on that link, but where is Grossi getting Cowher's name from. I haven't seen anything linking him to any team, let alone us. Also, Saban is #1 on his list, but Saban has let everyone know that he is staying at Alabama. So Grossi publishes an article where the top two candidates aren't even options. Awesome. I clicked on the link though, so I guess his goal has been accomplished.
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Gossi said in his article that he always includes Cower on any of his lists, basically because he likes him.
As far as Saban .... I know what he said ...... but ........... as long as the browns have an opening, I would bet that the Browns try everything they can to get him. I would guess that he is their #1 target, because he is exactly what they have said they want. The man is a leader par excellence.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Saban said the same thing before he hightailed it to Alabama. That's why he's still at the top of the list. That and when Haslam described his perfect HC he might as well have been reading from Saban's bio.
Cowher is on the list because Tony loves the guy as the Browns HC. Can't say I disagree with the feeling even if the logic is a little weak.
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I get the Saban thing. And I agree with crazyotto that Haslam pretty much described Saban in his press conference. I also agree that if Haslam could hire anyone he wanted he would hire Saban. I just don't think the dude is available.
To include Cowher on the list is misleading and uninformative.
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Out of the canidates listed, I prefer in the following order:
1.) Jon Gruden (Has shown the ability to win previously)
1a.) Chip Kelly (Could revolutionize the NFL, with the Browns leading the way)
3.) Bill Cowher (You can't turn someone like Cowher way, his past speaks for it's self, but how old is Cowher now?)
No to:
1.) Nick Saban (There is a reason why Saban ran back to the college levels. Leave him there).
2.) Doug Marrone (I'm not convinced on his abilities, nothing specail. Wow, he was the OC of the Saints, but left the year before the SB? The Saints success seems from Payton).
3.) Ray Horton (Rooney Rule. I'm not sold on their defense.)
4.) Dirk Koetter (He was the OC of the Jaguars for the last few years. Seriously, did he teach something new to Ryan, Turner, Jones and White? I doubt it).
5.) Bruce Arians (I'm not opposed to Arians, which is why he is on the bottom of this list).
6.) Greg Roman (I honestly don't know much about Roman, other then he keeps following Jim Harbaugh)
7.) Bill O’Brien (Once again, I don't know enough about O'Brien. However, another Belichick assistant? Come on, we've seen how those have worked out before)
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Cowher will turn 56 in May. I thought he was older too.
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Quote:
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If he hires a great Coach and they mess up the personal side of the ball it wont matter, in 3 years we will be be plummeting back to the basement.
Don't you have to be out of the basement to plummet back to the basement?
My statement is based on the belief we have enough core talent that we wont be in the basement for the next 3 years.Pittsburgh needs to restock this year. They normally bounce back strong after and off year not sure if they can do it next year.
We are very close to Cincinnati.
1 more CB and I think we can hang with Baltimore as well.
Its how we continue to add to that talent that will determine which direction we are headed at that point (3 years) in time.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I'd move Bruce Ariens up to the top list.. I'd take John Gruden and Cowher off and put in Kyle Shanahan in the mix.. But he won't leave his dad and RG3
Kelly,,, that could turn out to be revolutionary as you say, or a total bust. Big giant sized risk..
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Kelly,,, that could turn out to be revolutionary as you say, or a total bust. Big giant sized risk..
This is the part that I don't get. Haslam says he wants to follow the Steelers model... the Steelers never really fought to be revolutionary... they stuck with what worked, what has always worked, and they built around it. They were never ones for breaking molds and taking huge risks with players or with coaches....
I think taking Kelly is completely counter-intuitive to what Haslam has said he wants to do.
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Well .... we might as well go crazy outside the box ....... because so far nothing else has worked.
Kelly is, by all reports, a very smart, aggressive, hard working, innovative coach, who is also willing to learn at any opportunity ..... and willing to alter his offense to fit his talent ............ as well as being a very strong leader. I think that he can be a solid NFL coach as long as he continues to tailor his offense to what works, and what players he has, instead of trying to stuff players into an offense they have no chance of successfully playing in.
Hell, maybe they bring him in and go get Marinelli from Chicago to be our new DC, and we might be on to something.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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I'd move Bruce Ariens up to the top list.. I'd take John Gruden and Cowher off and put in Kyle Shanahan in the mix.. But he won't leave his dad and RG3
Kelly,,, that could turn out to be revolutionary as you say, or a total bust. Big giant sized risk..
Agreed. Though I'd add Mike McCoy to the list too.
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I would want to take a long hard look at McCoy and Kyle both ..
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Chjp Kelly also interviewing with Eagles and BillsI've been assuming the 'Interviews' thread was only for OUR interviews. Not that the conversation in every thread involving hiring & firing of coaches & GMs isn't all identical at this point anyway.
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I don't want Tebow here, I don't think in the long run he's the answer. But there is NO DENYING that he wins. Just look at his record.
Are you serious? When your QB throws for 46.5% and you manage to win despite him, what do you do?
You thank your lucky stars you managed to win with a QB who can't throw the ball, upgrade the QB position and trade him away for anything you can get.
Just like Denver did. You can look at his "very limited" record if you like, but are you saying that a team can be a winner and go to the playoffs on any consistant basis with a QB who doesn't even throw for 50%?
Obviously the people in Denver didn't think so........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't want Tebow here, I don't think in the long run he's the answer. But there is NO DENYING that he wins. Just look at his record.
Are you serious? When your QB throws for 46.5% and you manage to win despite him, what do you do?
You thank your lucky stars you managed to win with a QB who can't throw the ball, upgrade the QB position and trade him away for anything you can get.
Just like Denver did. You can look at his "very limited" record if you like, but are you saying that a team can be a winner and go to the playoffs on any consistant basis with a QB who doesn't even throw for 50%?
Obviously the people in Denver didn't think so........
Whats the record of teams he's started for?
Take the stats and throw them out the window,,, he wins. But again, having said that, he's not the kinda QB that I think we need.
But that's really a nothing conversation to be honest. What's important on this thread is that everything I'm hearing and reading says we're going hard after Kelly.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/03/13 08:52 AM.
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j/c If we look at the comments made by this FO, I really see four people that I wouldn't mind seeing here. From what they have said, the HC won't have final say in the draft as it should be. The HC will tell them what positions and type of players he needs for his system and they will go out and get them. Jon Gruden did great with the team Dungy assembled. As further drafts went on and the talent level went down, so did the W's for Jon Gruden. Bruce Ariens, while he doesn't fit the "youth mold" would seem a very likely and sought after candidate as well. Actually both Jay Gruden and Kyle Shanahan seem like very good choices as younger prospects. Since "marketing" seemed like a big deal in Haslams first press conference here, I do expect an offensive type HC to be hired. While people like to label Alex Smith as a "game manager", in 2012 he passed an average of just less than 22 times per game. He averaged 8 yards per completion and threw for over 70%. He threw for 13 TD's and 5 int's. Now you may sneeze at that, but Peyton Manning averaged 7.99 yards per completion. Smith actually averaged more than Peyton.  With TRich, BJax (who I felt was very underused), combined with Hardesty, we can keep fresh legs in the backfield and provide a very good environment for Smith to succeed. To me, if this FO plans to make radical changes, adding an offensive minded HC and going out and getting Smith would be their best way to do that. There's really no other real option out there at QB. Neither in this years draft or the FA market and if they're not happy with Weeden, I see no other logical choice. Now people can say Smith is a game manager, but you don't average more yards per completion than Peyton Manning and throw for over 70% completions because you can't play QB no matter what anyone says.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Whats the record of teams he's started for?
Unless you wish to include the NCAA he only started for one. And if you do wish to look at the NCAA, McCoy is the winningest QB in NCAA history. So I believe that pretty much shows you must throw the NCAA out the door.
I'm not sure who they're going hard after and I really don't believe the media does either. I do believe they know what is being spoon fed to them and that's about it.
I've seen us draft players who never came in for a visit. Sign FA's who came in at the last moment before they were signed.
I think with technology being what it is today, we must remember, you can have the interview process to a large degree via video conference call and nobody but Haslam and Banner would even know about it.
I'm not saying that's how things will work, but how many saw Haslam buying the team coming? How much real notice did the media have on that one? And that was a billion dollar move over the purchase of a franchise.
I also feel we need to keep things in perspective here. While I'm not directing this at you per say, it's something I often notice on this board. When the press says something the fan base here generaly disagrees with, they consider them a bunch of know nothing hacks.
But when the say something they do agree with, all of a sudden they wish to quote them and say they know what's going on. And while people get the impression I don't like Haslam, it's far more the structure I see setting up that concerns me, not the man himself.
And I do think he's a very shrude businessman. So I feel he will want the "shock and awe" factor when a HC is named, and until then, I believe things will be kept very close to the vest. I do believe the press is reporting what they do know. But what they don't know may be the key to the amswer.
Only time will tell.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
While people like to label Alex Smith as a "game manager", in 2012 he passed an average of just less than 22 times per game.
Which puts you at the bottom of the NFL in attempts per game... actually below the bottom.
Quote:
He averaged 8 yards per completion and threw for over 70%. He threw for 13 TD's and 5 int's. Now you may sneeze at that, but Peyton Manning averaged 7.99 yards per completion. Smith actually averaged more than Peyton.
Those numbers are per attempt, not per completion. Peyton averaged more per completion at 11.6 than Smiths 11.3.. but regardless...
Smith averaged less than 180 yards per game, Manning averaged over 270...
Smith is not a bad QB so don't think I'm disparaging him, but he is the very definition of a game manager... because of their running game he was almost always throwing with a favorable down and distance, had a great defense so he seldom was in that comeback mode where mistakes are made...
Don't get me wrong, he's an exceptional game manager, but that's what he is... but maybe that's what we need...
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,305 Likes: 643 |
Let me go on record BEFORE the game tonight. My first choice is Chip Kelly for head coach. 2nd choice would be Kyle Shanahan. Chip would bring something to Cleveland that we have not had in years. A Coach who actually thinks outside the box, and who will make game time adjustments, and be very flexible.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882 Likes: 432
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,882 Likes: 432 |
Rewatch the Stanford v Duck game and tell me how well he makes game time adjustments. If by continuing to pound the square peg into the round hole is adjusting, then yes he's a master of game time adjustments.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Quote:
Let me go on record BEFORE the game tonight. My first choice is Chip Kelly for head coach. 2nd choice would be Kyle Shanahan. Chip would bring something to Cleveland that we have not had in years. A Coach who actually thinks outside the box, and who will make game time adjustments, and be very flexible.
I agree, I just worry about Chip's attitude, I dont know enough about him to have an opinon...Just dont want another Butch Davis in the locker room, so I'm concerned about that, hope he's not like that,
I also like Kyle but keep thinken Lovis Smith, so for me if we could get one of these 3 guys I'd be happy
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