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So we just need someone to hold down the fort till Mariota is draft eligible? 
Great two more losing seasons. IF Mariota is worth anything and the league is heading this direction then he'll be worth the #1 pick.
Who said anything about a losing season?
You really need to calm down.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Thanks for the chuckle! You question my thought process on Kelly and then a few posts later, proceed to state your desire for Vick? Wow...
"If you need two yards, I'll get you two yards. If you need four yards, I'll get you two yards!" Ron Wolfley, Special Teams Madman
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Tank hard and get Johnny Football next year!
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Tank hard and get Johnny Football next year!
Awesome. 
Not that he won't be good. I think he could be special. More just banging my head at the thought of hoping to suck to hope to luck into a QB in a draft beyond this one.
Last edited by PortlandDawg; 01/05/13 10:29 PM.
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Tank hard and get Johnny Football next year!
Awesome.
Not that he won't be good. I think he could be special. More just banging my head at the thought of hoping to suck to hope to luck into a QB in a draft beyond this one.
I was being sarcastic, I don't forsee us being a bad team next year, even if we have to work a year with a QB that isn't a great fit I think we'll have a better record than this season.
We definitely have no business being high enough in the draft to land Manziel next season, we should be at worst around mid first round IMO.
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SpergonFTW, thank you for the reasoned response. I agree with the majority of your points and I guess that is why I feel so strongly on Haslam. He came in and sold the company line of continuity in the name of progress and then a few moths later proceeds to blow it up. I get that he probably wants "his" guys, but it just irks me. If he had come in and been upfront with the fans and honest instead of feeding us lines about the possibility of Heckert staying, it would have been less of a red flag for me. As we now know, that was all a line of BS that we were fed to keep us, as fans, at bay.
The main thing I disagree with you on is the role Banner plays. He seems a bit too meddlesome for my liking in his role, almost like he wants to wear all the hats except for coach. As President, his inability to turn some of that power over to a responsible GM such as Heckert presents me with a dilemma. I worry that he will install a "puppet" GM with little to no voice allowing him to run rampant across the personnel department. The mere notion that Lombardi can be coming back has me ill. I think you may be a bit too young to remember his previous tenure here, but I recall it as it was the last gasp of the original Browns and all of my family and friends were disappointed, to say the least, in what he did in bringing draft choices and FA here then.
I guess that is what I truly fear, going back to your post, is that Haslam came in, sold us on the fact that his ties with the Steelers and seeing how they ran an organization would be copied here, then proceeds to go pretty much against every notion of it. As much as I despise the Steelers, I respect them and I must admit they are a model of consistency. In a way I envy their fans in that they don't have this upheaval year after year. Istead, it seems Haslam can't stick to his guns, gets caught up in the Kool Aid Banner has him sip on, and instead wants to make the splashy acquisition, as opposed to the more reasoned and level headed one. ( I know that statement can and will be blown apart)
My main point is this: my honeymoon period for these guys was over once they decided to part ways with a GM in spite of the obvious talent he was getting. To say this team wasn't making strides in the talent department, as evidenced in a point you made in your post about being competative, and deciding to blow up that aspect of the team in order to give an NCAA coach with NO NFL experience and a (rumored) GM that does nothing but bag on the selections Heckert has made bothers me and sticks in my craw. I guess I've just reached my breaking point and if we decide to go to a 3-4 again and whack the defense, Jauron or no, I might just shatter, lol!
"If you need two yards, I'll get you two yards. If you need four yards, I'll get you two yards!" Ron Wolfley, Special Teams Madman
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I agree with the majority of your points and I guess that is why I feel so strongly on Haslam. He came in and sold the company line of continuity in the name of progress and then a few moths later proceeds to blow it up. I get that he probably wants "his" guys, but it just irks me. If he had come in and been upfront with the fans and honest instead of feeding us lines about the possibility of Heckert staying, it would have been less of a red flag for me. As we now know, that was all a line of BS that we were fed to keep us, as fans, at bay.
Whoa there...You've been subscribing to Mac's posts? 
I hate bringing up old crap, but neither Haslam nor anyone else EVER promised that they'd keep the current regime intact for the sake of continuity.
All Haslam said was that he believes in continuity.
HE bought the team and promised to evaluate everyone. The team went 5-11 and crapped the bed down the stretch. There was very-little reason to retain any of these people as we proceeded to have our 5th consecutive season with double-digit losses.
So let's not get caught up in the line that Haslam promised he'd keep people just for the sake of it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree with the majority of your points and I guess that is why I feel so strongly on Haslam. He came in and sold the company line of continuity in the name of progress and then a few moths later proceeds to blow it up. I get that he probably wants "his" guys, but it just irks me. If he had come in and been upfront with the fans and honest instead of feeding us lines about the possibility of Heckert staying, it would have been less of a red flag for me. As we now know, that was all a line of BS that we were fed to keep us, as fans, at bay.
Whoa there...You've been subscribing to Mac's posts?
I hate bringing up old crap, but neither Haslam nor anyone else EVER promised that they'd keep the current regime intact for the sake of continuity.
All Haslam said was that he believes in continuity.
HE bought the team and promised to evaluate everyone. The team went 5-11 and crapped the bed down the stretch. There was very-little reason to retain any of these people as we proceeded to have our 5th consecutive season with double-digit losses.
So let's not get caught up in the line that Haslam promised he'd keep people just for the sake of it.
Well I know people jump on the record stuff as an easy excuse and I also feel, for me at least if he kept Shurmer just to maintain Continuallity I would have been miffed. Shurmur had to go.
That being said Heckert was let go for much different reasons and it could be argued that keeping him would have shown his interest in continuality.
It would have given more meaning to his statement.
There are a couple things that most will agree on.
When Haslam got here we knew Shurmur would have to improve as a HC.
When Banner got here we hoped Heckert would be retained as the GM.
So Haslam and Banner knew exactly once they decided Shurmurs fate what they were going to do and kept saying we are evaluating. Not exactly honest but then again if they said we are firing everyone what good would that have done the team or us fans?
They have been very busy behind the scene's while keeping up a front that now I dont think anyone could argue was true. Not saying its wrong but I wont call someone out for complaining about it either.
Last edited by NickBrownsFan; 01/05/13 11:02 PM.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Please note that I never brought up Shurmur as I was not a fan of his. I think NickBrownsFan said it best in the post below, that Haslam came in all smiles and roses, but the whole time had an agenda. As I stated in my post, I'm not naieve enough to think that he wouldn't change the FO around to suit himself, but it does make something in my head go BING! that he obviously played against the type he sold himself as when he arrived.
I understand that the team did the FO no faovrs in losing the last three straight, but some evaluators/analysts in the know (Gil Brandt, Albert Breer, Jason LaCanfora) seemed to share the viewpoint that the talent level on the team was headed toward the right place and looking good. As I said, my issue is not with Shurmur, it is with Heckert and the whole fish story we were given to placate us throughout the season. I deal in the world of sales in my real job, and pulling folks along is a cowardly move, IMO. If you can't deliver/have no intention of delivering, then state your position and move on. Coming from the business world Haslam does, I guess cutthroat and cloak and dagger must be more prevalent.
While you may not have an issue with being lied to, I do. Especially when my money, through ticket sales, merchandise, goods and services at the games, help finance this team in whatever minute way, I expect to be told the truth. Or at least as close to on the level as is possible. While you and I both know that Heckert was gone as soon as Banner set foot in Berea, don't play me for the fool either and tell me that there is a chance. If he wasn't in the long term plans, let him go and retain the scouts to finish the work for the season. Simple as that, yet when the team did show minimal signs of life, it put Haslam and Banner between a rock and a hard place. I suppose that is the brass tacks of it all for me, and that is why the grace period for Haslam and Banner got considerably shorter.
"If you need two yards, I'll get you two yards. If you need four yards, I'll get you two yards!" Ron Wolfley, Special Teams Madman
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Please note that I never brought up Shurmur as I was not a fan of his.
Noted...Shurmur-lover
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Haslam came in all smiles and roses, but the whole time had an agenda.
If you mean he came into owning the team with an idea that he was leaning on canning everyone, sure, he had an agenda. I would have had the exact same agenda. I would expect every single owner who would pay more than $1 billion dollars for an NFL team that had 4-straight seasons of losing double-digit games and a continued roster filled with sub-par talent to have an agenda of likely firing everyone.
I would also consider any such owner to be an absolute fool if he didn't leave the door open...either publicly or privately...for the current folks to keep their job if the team suddenly did the unexpected and started winning.
I find it...curious...that fans would hold it against any owner who just bought an NFL team when he had an agenda coming in. My guess is that the vast majority of the fans that feel that way were in favor of keeping certain people. Yes? And that isn't an accusation towards you, RW, but an observation. Haslam said exactly what he was supposed to say. To say anything else would be to shoot himself in the foot. Say you're going to fire everyone no matter what and you risk losing the players and the coaches while simultaneously looking like an idiot should the team suddenly start winning. Say you're going to keep everyone regardless of the circumstances is equally as idiotic.
The way to judge a talking head is to evaluate if he said the right thing at the right time. Haslam played the cards exactly right, and you can be sure in spite of his words that he had an agenda. Any owner worth a crap would.
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As I said, my issue is not with Shurmur, it is with Heckert and the whole fish story we were given to placate us throughout the season.
How do you know that if we'd blown out teams in our final 3 games that they wouldn't have kept Heckert? I know you don't believe they'd have kept him, but if the Browns win out and the entire roster clicks, Haslam would have had to reconsider his desire to dump Heckert.
It's hard to assume that they flat-out lied. It's not hard to see the team flopped down the stretch, making it an impossible decision to keep the regime intact. With a new structure desired, the team would have had to clicked and done it quickly in order to stave off a change. That didn't happen, leaving the organization no choice but to follow the original plan of scrapping the FO. Again, I don't fault Haslam for what he said, even if it wasn't the total truth. I admire and appreciate the wisdom of saying the right thing in the right way at the right time.
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While you may not have an issue with being lied to, I do. Especially when my money, through ticket sales, merchandise, goods and services at the games, help finance this team in whatever minute way, I expect to be told the truth.
Well, I take a much more pragmatic approach to all this. I view the "lying" as a necessarily evil requirement of every NFL franchise. More truth equals more damage to the absolute bottom line because an organization that isn't lying is an organization that's being outclassed and out-maneuvered by other organizations.
I get that you're spending money and expect accountability for your contributions to their bottom line, but I'd hope you'd understand to do that would be actually hurting that bottom line, that the lies protect and maximize your investment.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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j/c
I trust that Uncle Jimmy will get the guy he wants.
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The way to judge a talking head is to evaluate if he said the right thing at the right time.
I thought that's how you judged things like politicians, lawyers, marketing gurus ( salesmen with a fancy title ), and snake oil salesmen.
 
Not quality leaders and great NFL owners. My mistake.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I would love to see us sign Vick and get like Jennings or Mike Wallace or both and just open it up... Would be fun to see what could happen and draft defensive.
Vick- I would not mind this signing at all 1) He paid his debt to society and Browns recently had a player who killed a person on the team , as an aside you will never convince me killing a dog= kill a person. From that perspective I'd be okay with the move.
2) If Vick signs with the Browns, he would probably be the most talented QB the Browns have had since what Couch and that would be big argument which Vick might win depending if you feel Couch was good or not.
3. The only problem I see is his accuracy. The Chip Kelly quote where he mentions that he doesn't run a Tebow offense also mentions he perfers an accurate QB. Vick is a lot of things but I don't know if I would call him accurate. Only Kelly would know if he was accurate enough.
Wallace I would love but feel he probably wants to much money and with Banner in charge of contracts I do not see the Browns overpaying for anybody.
Sign Vick? people gotta be kidding. He's done. It has nothing to do with paying his debt to society, it's that he can't stay on the field. He's done.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well ... were TOAST AGAIN ... we go from an owner that could care less about the team to an owner who is not going to be able to get out of his own ego's way ... say hello to Daniel Snyder the 2nd ... hopefully it doesn't take Jimmy 10 years to get humbled and hire GOOD FOOTBALL to run the show ...
Here's why i feel this way ...
1st move was to hire Banner .. I knew nuttin about him other than he left the Iggles the day they signed D-Jax to one of the dumbest contracts I have seen ... so to me that was a positive to Banner ...
Over the last 3 or 4 years since Reid became the man they have been going downhill talent wise .. not sure how much Banner had to do with that so I won't judge Banner on that as Reid clearly had control ..
there 1st move together was to clear out the Walrus, Heck and Shurmer .. no probs with that .. and they did it the way i would have .. gotten rid of the walrus almost instantly .. then get rid of shurmer .. then they waited a bit to get rid of Heck ... not sure what happend there but i could care less .. i thought he should have been fired for the weeden pick .. thats was a BRUTAL ASS REACH and i said it that day and weeden did nuttin to make me feel good about it last year ..
so that was a good thing as far as i'm concerned ...
It starts with the HC search ... 1st of all why the f are we doing it backwords all ready ... STRIKE ONE ... hire a gm first U bafoons ...
Now I loved the chud hiring .. LOVE IT .. he has a chance to be a good one .. been an inovator and highly thought of on each stop along the way ... he was the one i wanted from day 1 .. sick of the retreads and chud is highly regarded amongst his peers ...
THE PROBLEM IS HE WAS THERE 3RD OR 4TH CHOICE ... and that would have been OK if it wasn't for who there first 3 or so choices were ... ALL COLLEGE COACHES with no NFL head coaching experience .. how many f'n times does that have to fail before these EGOTISTICAL MANIACS get it ..
dude .. u made your money with truck stops ... don't come in and think u can do things better than all those that come before U ... and appearantly being a part owner of the stilers didn't help ... u see the Rooney's reaching for college coaches??? ... yet u do .. MORON!!!
and to make it worse .. he wanted to go with a "spread" guy .... very interested to see how the nfl protects the qb's when there running out of the spread and one of the DE's takes the qb's head off after executing a fake .. so to put all your eggs in that basket until we see how that is handled is way to pre-mature in my eyes ...
the fact he wanted a college coach was enough to tell me his ego was way to big to do this right ...
then he gets Norv on board .. another sign that chud is well respected ... i believe he worked for Norv for a year or two .. can anyone confirm that cause i might be wrong on that one ..
Norvs a great hire IMO ... but that goes to chud ..
now THE BAFFON BROTHERS (thats how i will refer to the 2 headed idiots running the show until they prove to me otherwise) .. hire Lombardi .. that makes me want to puke .. LITERALLY ...
i've disagreed with lots of what went on since we came back .. since we hired the "don" and no move in the history of sports made me more sick than that one (i actually did puke that day .. *L*) ... nothing we have done has come close to the absolute STUPIDITY of this move ..
first i ever heard of Lombardi was on the Rome show 4 or 5 years ago ... he started a website called the washington post (i think the sites still running .. just can't remember the name of it) .. was devoted to football .. anyhow ... I started reading it and read it for about a year ... i used to read it and think to myself .. how did this guy ever have a job in football .. HE WAS CLUELESS ... I COULDN'T BELIEVE THE CRAP HE POSTED .. he was brutal ..
so that prompted me back then to look at what he'd done .. and he FAILED EVERY STEP OF THE WAY ...
when i heard him associated with us i almost cried .. now we hire him and i find out its cause banner thinks hes good .. OH GOD ... were so $crewed its not even funny ... and this TAINTS BANNER to me .... Lombardi is to Banner what Clark was to the "Don" // PATHETIC ... one ruined our franchise for the first 7 or 8 years .. now the others gonna ruin it until Jimmy boy gets humbled .. HE SHOULD HAVE STOOD A FAN if his egos to big to let him suceed .. BRUTAL ..
actually maybe we have Jerry jones SINCE the JJ hire .. cause Jimmy Boy wants to be hands on .. when's the last time that worked for an nfl owner ... ummm .. how's NEVER SOUND U .... grrrrrr .. THIS STINKS!!!!!!!!
we have an ego maniac for an owner ... an idiot as the #2 man in th org. and now a bafoon for the head of player personal ..
GOOD LUCK cause were gonna need it ... CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mike Lombardi started the Washington Post?
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yeah, i was confused about that too. Not sure if it's still around. 
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Lombardi is to Banner what Clark was to the "Don" // PATHETIC ... one ruined our franchise for the first 7 or 8 years
I was thinking this same thing earlier today. Policy and Clark kept running through my mind. Like Daman said earlier, I'm an optimist, but this front office has me seeing the glass as empty!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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1st off Diam.... it's nice to see you bro  2nd I agree with your banner comments I hate that little weasel with a pasion. 3rd I agree with your feeling on Chud. 4th Now we come to Lombardi........ Oh Lord what in the hell are we doing. This was the worst choice anybody in or out of their right mind could have made. just look back at ALL of this baffoone's drafts and you will see that he has no clue. He makes the average fan who is wrong 60 percent of the time look like a genious. We are doomed as long as tihs idiot has anything tosay about our draft picks :"()
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Damn, dude, when you take a break from posting it's a helluva break. Nice to see you back. You dragging eotab and Vers back with you, too?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Good to hear from you again bud.
Unfortunately I concur. Going after Kelly was retarded, but the total handling of the process gave me real warning signs of these two goofs. I like Chud, and agree he could be a good one, and I as well like the staff he put together. As you said the problem is these goofs then went out an paired a 1st time HC with an absolute idiot in Lombardi (and I don't give a rat's ass what his pal Jim Nantz has to say about it).
I think alot of Chud, but I to my knowledge (someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) he has never had any real hands on experience in personnel evaluation. There is no way Chud is going to be able to successfully handle being a 1st time HC and be the head of football ops all at the same time...........and if he could we shouldn't have put him in that position to have to in the first place. No, they needed to give him a quality GM to help him and let him focus on coaching. They failed miserably setting this whole thing up by underestimating the importance of talent evaluation, or as you said GROSSLY overestimating there own ability to do such things.
In short, I'm afraid were in for a crap load of more losing. I've stated it can't get worse, because this organization has been one big cluster since re-birth. However, that doesn't mean we are any better off.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Well ... were TOAST AGAIN ... we go from an owner that could care less about the team to an owner who is not going to be able to get out of his own ego's way ... say hello to Daniel Snyder the 2nd ... hopefully it doesn't take Jimmy 10 years to get humbled and hire GOOD FOOTBALL to run the show ...
Yeah, his first press conference seemed to mention marketing a lot. Funny comments coming from someone who just bought a team. And Banner's ego combined with Haslams kind of made me believe we would be in for a long ride.
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Here's why i feel this way ...
1st move was to hire Banner .. I knew nuttin about him other than he left the Iggles the day they signed D-Jax to one of the dumbest contracts I have seen ... so to me that was a positive to Banner ...
Over the last 3 or 4 years since Reid became the man they have been going downhill talent wise .. not sure how much Banner had to do with that so I won't judge Banner on that as Reid clearly had control ..
I did a lot of research on Banner. The bulk of what I saw indicated to me that he was very power hungry. That he pretty much wanted full control of a team and what better way to get it than be the right hand man of a rookie owner. So I was pretty concerned at the beginning on that one.
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there 1st move together was to clear out the Walrus, Heck and Shurmer .. no probs with that .. and they did it the way i would have .. gotten rid of the walrus almost instantly .. then get rid of shurmer .. then they waited a bit to get rid of Heck ... not sure what happend there but i could care less .. i thought he should have been fired for the weeden pick .. thats was a BRUTAL ASS REACH and i said it that day and weeden did nuttin to make me feel good about it last year ..
so that was a good thing as far as i'm concerned ...
When it comes to Holmgren and Shurmer I had no qualms with it. And don't get me wrong, Heckert made his share of bad picks, he did help the overall talent of this team.
There were also a lot of rumors in many directions that claimed they had Lombardi in their sights as the new GM/Personnel guy. So my concern was that we would get someone worse than Heckert. Not equal to or better. And I believe that just happened.
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It starts with the HC search ... 1st of all why the f are we doing it backwords all ready ... STRIKE ONE ... hire a gm first U bafoons ...
Well since it seems that Lombadi was actually who the GM/personnel guy was going to be all along, they really had already decided on him before the HC was hired. They just kept everyone in the dark about it, lied about it or decieved everyone about it. I guess it depends on your point of view there...
But I do feel that's a rookie move at best and not a sound way of running things.
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Now I loved the chud hiring .. LOVE IT .. he has a chance to be a good one .. been an inovator and highly thought of on each stop along the way ... he was the one i wanted from day 1 .. sick of the retreads and chud is highly regarded amongst his peers ...
I'm fine with the hire of Chud. I kind of set a mold in regards to what I was looking for in the next HC and he fit the mold well. I also liked Mike McCoy a lot.
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THE PROBLEM IS HE WAS THERE 3RD OR 4TH CHOICE ... and that would have been OK if it wasn't for who there first 3 or so choices were ... ALL COLLEGE COACHES with no NFL head coaching experience .. how many f'n times does that have to fail before these EGOTISTICAL MANIACS get it ..
I was having a cow when they considered Chip Kelly first in line! But all so many on here want to do is coddle every bone headed thing they do. You know how that goes though.
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dude .. u made your money with truck stops ... don't come in and think u can do things better than all those that come before U ... and appearantly being a part owner of the stilers didn't help ... u see the Rooney's reaching for college coaches??? ... yet u do .. MORON!!!
But didn't you hear what he said? He said he learned so much from the Rooney family!!
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and to make it worse .. he wanted to go with a "spread" guy .... very interested to see how the nfl protects the qb's when there running out of the spread and one of the DE's takes the qb's head off after executing a fake .. so to put all your eggs in that basket until we see how that is handled is way to pre-mature in my eyes ...
But it's the latest fad man! We gotta get that guy! And a knee brace in waiting for a QB.
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the fact he wanted a college coach was enough to tell me his ego was way to big to do this right ...
That or he's being lead around by the nose by Banner. And I don't know which one is worse.
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then he gets Norv on board .. another sign that chud is well respected ... i believe he worked for Norv for a year or two .. can anyone confirm that cause i might be wrong on that one ..
Norvs a great hire IMO ... but that goes to chud ..
Yes it does go to chud. And Chud worked for Turner in San diego.
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now THE BAFFON BROTHERS (thats how i will refer to the 2 headed idiots running the show until they prove to me otherwise) .. hire Lombardi .. that makes me want to puke .. LITERALLY ...
It makes me want to take a Xanax but kinda the same thing.
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i've disagreed with lots of what went on since we came back .. since we hired the "don" and no move in the history of sports made me more sick than that one (i actually did puke that day .. *L*) ... nothing we have done has come close to the absolute STUPIDITY of this move ..
first i ever heard of Lombardi was on the Rome show 4 or 5 years ago ... he started a website called the washington post (i think the sites still running .. just can't remember the name of it) .. was devoted to football .. anyhow ... I started reading it and read it for about a year ... i used to read it and think to myself .. how did this guy ever have a job in football .. HE WAS CLUELESS ... I COULDN'T BELIEVE THE CRAP HE POSTED .. he was brutal ..
so that prompted me back then to look at what he'd done .. and he FAILED EVERY STEP OF THE WAY ...
when i heard him associated with us i almost cried .. now we hire him and i find out its cause banner thinks hes good .. OH GOD ... were so $crewed its not even funny ... and this TAINTS BANNER to me .... Lombardi is to Banner what Clark was to the "Don" // PATHETIC ... one ruined our franchise for the first 7 or 8 years .. now the others gonna ruin it until Jimmy boy gets humbled .. HE SHOULD HAVE STOOD A FAN if his egos to big to let him suceed .. BRUTAL ..
actually maybe we have Jerry jones SINCE the JJ hire .. cause Jimmy Boy wants to be hands on .. when's the last time that worked for an nfl owner ... ummm .. how's NEVER SOUND U .... grrrrrr .. THIS STINKS!!!!!!!!
we have an ego maniac for an owner ... an idiot as the #2 man in th org. and now a bafoon for the head of player personal ..
GOOD LUCK cause were gonna need it ... CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The funny thing is.... well maybe not so funny..... Is how so many around here are so desperate for anything, they actually try to rationlize this BS!
People need to take their blinders off and focus on reality. Haslam bought the team for 1 billion. He's already recooped 200 million buy selling the naming rights to the stadium. He's already planning a uniform change to bring in more $$$$ and hasn't even shown his staff can have a successful draft or put a winning team on the field.
He's a freakin' marketing guy! And that's all........
Banner runs the operation and Haslam just figures out ways to generate getting the money back he already spendt buying the team before he even fields a team or wins a game!
And what do the fans have to say for the most part?
We need to give them a chance...... If you don't support what they're doing, you want the Browns to lose
Gone are the days of expecting accountability and results. Now it's Oh look at the bright new shiney uniforms. I like THAT ONE!
I'm still here trying to fight the good fight, but it's getting kind of futile when everybody seems to be making excuses for poor decisions and getting all excited about the glittery stuff and the bill of goods this fO is trying to sell.
Good to hear from you man! Sorry it's on such a sour note. But when one takes a realistic look at it? What's new in Browns Town?
BTW- anyone who thinks the post is too long? Just remember, I wasn't responding to you anyway. And I really don't value your opinion on the matter either.
I was responding to someone who values discussion and not somebody who feels posting on a message board equates to bullet points.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Hey Diam, it took hiring Lombardi to get you back on here? Guess you were waiting for a worse move than Brady Quinn, lol Sorry bro, had to do this, esp since you hated on Weeden. If Quinn EVER has the season Weeden just had, it'll be considered his "career year" ok, ok I'll stop...just highlighting that your opinion on franchise QBs must be taken with a grain of salt Anyway, we can make this short: I agree with the rest  I was slammed around here when I suggested from the get go that J&J are ALL EGO trippin and using the Browns to play Madden, the GM version. Now it's official reality looking at the setup of the FO. Exactly what I predicted: clueless puppet-GM for J&J to play Ego-Boss. If I had the billions I would probably do the same, but I can guarantee you I wouldn't have hired neither Banner nor Lombardi and just kept Heckert. Hope you stay around here, this place sure needs a "talent" upgrade on posters. Seeing you and DawgStyle post again would be a great start
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First, welcome back..
Just some things that popped out about your post.
As you know, I'm Mr. Positive, or at least I try to be but I couldn't after the Lombardi Hire. Then my spirits were lifted this morning when I saw we hired Horton as DC.
So I look at Chud (I loved that hire), Turner (wow,, loved that hire) and Horton (again, wow, loved that hire) I say we have three guys that are going to lead this team onto the field and we have a chance. We won't have horrible coaching errors week after week. Will they make an error, OF COURSE. will a few bad decisions be made, OF COURSE. But it won't be every play every game kinda mistakes. Not the kind of coaching we've seen the last 13 years at all. (although I liked Palmer, but man, he had no talent on those teams)
BY the way, I think the hiring of Chud lands squarely on Haslam and Banner,, Good for them. But the hiring of Horton and Turner,, That is all Chud.
Oh and I don't think the order in which interviews are scheduled necessarly suggests who was the lead candidate. One of the first interviews they had was with Wheisenhut.. not a college coach as you incorrectly pointed out, another of their first interviews was with Horton, again, not a college guy. Somewhere in there, they were supposed to interview that guy from Syracuse, but I'm not sure that ever took place and the guy from Penn State turned everyone down and stayed put.
If memory serves me correctly, reports were that the third interview in Arizona was a marathon interview with Kelly.
Kelly may have been their first choice out of those three in Arizona but when he blew them off for the second interview, to J&J's credit they got on a plane and said Adios to him.
I don't think I'm alone on this, I feel like with Kelly, we really dodged a bullet. Whew.
Oh,, yeah, your assumption was correct, Chud spent a lot of time with Turner as a TE Coach, OC and OC/Asst HC all under Turner so they know each other very well. The respect they have is pretty evident by Chud being able to hire his mentor. Personally I think that says a lot about Chud.. and Turner for that matter.
So with very minor exceptions, I mostly agree with you.
OK, Here comes the Glass half full guy again.
Now keep in mind, I can't pin any reasoning that would make a ton of sense on this but I do feel as if Chud, Turner and Horton will have the clout to make Banner and Lombardi non factors in player selection.
Here's why I say that, I don't believe Haslam is anywhere near as dumb as you portray him to be. His strengths aren't football,, but they are business management and a big key to that is who you surround yourself with.
It scares me that he chose Banner a little, but that's more of a personal opinion with virtually nothing to back it up other then he shouldn't be in front of the camera. And Lombardi which my guess is, was a Banner pick that Haslam went along with.
While I don't like the Lombardi pick I don't suspect that when push comes to shove, that Haslam (who despite Banners claim that it will be a consensus on player/team decisions) has the final word. Just a guess on my part, but I think he'll more often then not, come down on the side of the guys that coach the team when it's a "take this player over the other" type decisions.
Let me address one other point that you seem very upset about. That being that they hired a Coach before a GM.
Generally, I'd agree with you if the plan is to run a traditional front office, but I think they sent a message by hiring Chud and Turner before hiring Lombardi (and I suspect that Horton was already in the bag but not announced) that they don't intend to run a traditional front office..
From the outset,, Banner said that we'd see who we hire, but that he preferred the HC have final roster control (I'm still not sure exactly what that means)
So, if you think Traditional, I'm in agreement with you, but if you are going out of the box, then this is as good a way as any I suppose. And it does appear that they intend to run an "outside the box" type FO.
I don't find it to be the end of the world. I might if it was Kelly they had hired as HC. But for any number of reasons, I trust Chud.
I really hope he doesn't let me down. Not sure I can take another let down.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hiya Diam - good to hear from you. Stick around, its gonna get interesting. BTW, it's "buffoon", not "baffoon", baffone", or "baffon".
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It is great that Browns fans have a forum to vent and exchange opinions. Hard for people outside to really get the passion Browns fans have.
However, when it is all said and done our opinions do not amount to much as far as the decisions made by the owner.
This team is owned by Jimmy Haslam the Third and the Haslam family. They will do as they see fit.
The Lerner family wanted to win also. They tried. They tried a number of different ways. In the end they failed. Randy came to conclusion that what he tried to do he failed at and maybe for all concerned it would better to sell the team.
Jimmy Haslam III is a totally different person. He strongly believes that he can succeed where the Lerner's failed. His approach will be much more hands on.
The decisions that have been made are his decisions. Do not believe for a minute that he is being led around by the nose. And that Joe Banner is pulling the string.
Jimmy is leaning on Banner for his inside knowledge of how the league works. He more than likely let Banner come up with the list of candidates but wanted information on how that list was assembled and what it was based upon.
Once the interview process began Haslam was not only there attending. He was prepared.
These hires that are now concluded: Chud, Turner, Lombardi, Horton were Haslam's decision. Banner most certainly had input. But, the Final decision was Haslam's.
The buck stops at Jimmy Haslam.
Everyone wants to win.
We will find out in the next few years if Jimmy Haslam knows how to win.
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GM .. how u be bro? .. how life treating u my friend? Willie - sup dawg ... how r the boys doin? .. anymore since u last saw me??? ..... i been in salses a long long time and i remember when i first started they told me every No u heard just meant u were closer to your next Yes .... well i try and use that philosophy with the browns ... so i equate this next 3 or 4 years of failure we are about to endure as getting closer to the next good period ... problem is i'm running out of 3 or 4 year incriments ... *L* Django - MANTI MANTI MANTI!!!!! .... *L* ... thats a joke .. i tried that on the other board and they crucified me for it ..... just making fun of BRADY BRADY BRADY and DAVID DAVID DAVID ....  make fun all u want bro ... i deserve it and have no probs eating the crap seeing as how its justified .... just curious .... have u uttered a positive word since i left??? *L* ... if u did ... what was it and i'll need a 2nd, 3rd and 4th party verification ...  Dave ... i spell like a BAFOON .... *L* .. as far as i'm concerned as long as u know what i mean i ain't so worried about the spelling ... and u obviously did by all the examples u gave me of how to and how not to spell the word i was looking for ... *L* ... I may stick around and post once in a great while ... but u won't see much if any of me at all as i just didn't enjoy this anymore and highly doubt i ever will again ... and unless its work or a responsibility of mine i'm not gonna do it if i don't enjoy it ... i'm to old to waste time ..
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Welcome back Diam. Man, it has been a long, long time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I did a lot of research on Banner. The bulk of what I saw indicated to me that he was very power hungry. That he pretty much wanted full control of a team and what better way to get it than be the right hand man of a rookie owner. So I was pretty concerned at the beginning on that one.Quote:
What did he do there Pitt? .. i know very little about the guy ... and what i've learned since hes been here is scaring the crap out of me ... wasn't he just a bean counter in Phili? .. what was it he exactly did there? ... did he have anything at all to do with the football side of personal or just a negotiator?
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When it comes to Holmgren and Shurmer I had no qualms with it. And don't get me wrong, Heckert made his share of bad picks, he did help the overall talent of this team.
There were also a lot of rumors in many directions that claimed they had Lombardi in their sights as the new GM/Personnel guy. So my concern was that we would get someone worse than Heckert. Not equal to or better. And I believe that just happened.
I agree it just happend .... i'm amazed at how people on these boards can think this is anything but a BRUTAL BUTT HIRING .... dudes been out of football for 5 years yet these people just ignore that cause 3 or 4 ANNOUNCERS and Billicheck have had good things to say about him since the hire ...
its a joke ... billicheck made the guy sound like the 2nd coming of Bill Walsh yet for some reason didn't even get him in for an interview when Pioli left .... now i'm suppose to listen to what this guy has to say .... ya ... ok ... not that gullible ...
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I'm fine with the hire of Chud. I kind of set a mold in regards to what I was looking for in the next HC and he fit the mold well. I also liked Mike McCoy a lot.
Never thought of McCoy ... i would have been fine backing into him ... *L*
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I was having a cow when they considered Chip Kelly first in line! But all so many on here want to do is coddle every bone headed thing they do. You know how that goes though.
Me .. naaaa ... i have no experience with that sort of thing .... remember way way way back in the beggining when there was some guy Celeb99 or sumptin like that and only 4 or 5 other posters and i ripped the "don" and clark up and down before they did a damm thing ..... remember how good that went over .... *LOL* ..
hopefully Jimmy Boy loses the ego because until he does hes were in trouble ... hopefully it doesn't take to long ...
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But it's the latest fad man! We gotta get that guy! And a knee brace in waiting for a QB.
It may work ... depends on how much they protect the qb's and also how smart the qb's are to take advantaqe of the slide rule ... Capernick and Wilson slide after 30 yard runs so they have a shot as long as the nfl keeps protecting them ... RG3 and Cam ... not so good at sliding .. and qb's just can't take the hits .... they won't take the punishment all year ...
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I'm still here trying to fight the good fight, but it's getting kind of futile when everybody seems to be making excuses for poor decisions and getting all excited about the glittery stuff and the bill of goods this fO is trying to sell.
your a better man than I am Pitt ... a much better man than I ....
I have no clue how anyone can defend the lombardi hire .. none .... it still boggles my mind that people just gloss over the fact HE HAS NOT BEEN IN THE GAME FOR 5 YEARS ... they act like thats no big deal and the rest of the nfl owners and presidents were too stupid to hire this guy and now we got this hidden gem .... gimme a frickin break ....
correct me if i'm wrong pitt ... did Bill Walsh, Bill Polian or Thompson ever take 5 years off in between gigs??? ... i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say NO ...
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BTW- anyone who thinks the post is too long? Just remember, I wasn't responding to you anyway. And I really don't value your opinion on the matter either.
I liked your format bro ... doing it like that helps clear up some of the confusion when posting on a messge board ... i also liked the content but thats cause u were right for a change ...
I hope all is well Pitt ....
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hey Y-Town ... just stopping by for a drive by .. *L* ...
how u doin bud???? ... hows the back ... hope its all better, if not hopefully u can live with it .. last i was here u were really really struggling with it and could hardly move ...
u were just starting school if i remember correctly .... am i remembering correctly and if so did u finish yet?
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Good to see you dude. We disagreed a lot but in the end we loved each other........well, maybe not that.....we respected each other,. Or something
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Good to see ya back Diam.
If you're just here for a drive-by, make sure you aim straight and take windage into account, GM is still here you know...
#GMSTRONG
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Doing great bud. My oldest ones are almost 8 now (and mean as hell...lol). I had a little girl last year, and she has me hooked way more than the Browns do (which is a large part why I don't post much anymore.......well and the Browns being too infuriating to follow as closely). Hope all is well with you my friend.
The part that amazes me is just how quickly people are buying into the Nantz and Bellyache stuff. As you said if he was so smart why didn't BB hire him? If as Jimmy and Joe stated, he was so well regarded in the league then why has he gotten only one other interviews in five years when it was a known fact he wanted back in the league???
I'm not buying it. His record as talent evaluator is pathetic, and that speaks way more about him imo than what his buddies have to say.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Hey dude... I hope that you're well.. been a while!
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Did 2 years of school, then it got to be too much with me working 70-80 hours/week. Back's still a wreck. I can get around some, but still not enough to do much.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
What did he do there Pitt? .. i know very little about the guy ... and what i've learned since hes been here is scaring the crap out of me ... wasn't he just a bean counter in Phili? .. what was it he exactly did there? ... did he have anything at all to do with the football side of personal or just a negotiator?
From what I have found he was a large contributer in their stadium deal. He negotiated the contracts and salary cap issues.
Many "claim" he had his hands in about everything, yet nobody has shown anything that will in any way confirm he had any say in the draft or the roster. The "company line" says he taught Roseman to replace him but most of what is written indicates a power struggle between himself and Reid.
He and Lurie have been best Buds forever and since Lurie bought the Eagles, yet Lurie let Reid and Rosemen take over. Nobody has a credable reason for that either.
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its a joke ... billicheck made the guy sound like the 2nd coming of Bill Walsh yet for some reason didn't even get him in for an interview when Pioli left .... now i'm suppose to listen to what this guy has to say .... ya ... ok ... not that gullible ...
That, and somehow the competition in the league wants you to be good? I think all 31 other teams actually want to beat you unless I'm missing something here. Why would they want you to hire people that can help you beat them?
And heck, Lombardi just wanted a vacation and have his salary cut to one third or less than what it was in the NFL. Didn't you know making less money and working well outside your actual field was all the rage these days?
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Me .. naaaa ... i have no experience with that sort of thing .... remember way way way back in the beggining when there was some guy Celeb99 or sumptin like that and only 4 or 5 other posters and i ripped the "don" and clark up and down before they did a damm thing ..... remember how good that went over .... *LOL* ..
Oh I remember that well!
As you can see I learned well over time not to just praise everything without breaking it down first. I learned that names and articles do not equate to success. I started with RAC and it continued with Shurmer.
I learned that being "hopefull" didn't pay off unless I saw a real reason to BE hopefull. And I don't see either with Banner or Lombardi at the helm.
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hopefully Jimmy Boy loses the ego because until he does hes were in trouble ... hopefully it doesn't take to long ...
I'm not sure about Haslam having a huge ego. I see that far more with both Lombardi and Banner. I think Jimmy just made a mistake with the hiring of Banner.
If things go south in a hurry with the drafting, we'll find out a lot about Jimmy. If they're screwing the pooch with the talent they draft and Jimmy sticks with those two?
It's either ego, foolish pride or plain stubborness. As of now I just attribute it to a rookie mistake and anyone can make one of those. The future will give me clues on my feelings going forward with Jimmy.
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It may work ... depends on how much they protect the qb's and also how smart the qb's are to take advantaqe of the slide rule ... Capernick and Wilson slide after 30 yard runs so they have a shot as long as the nfl keeps protecting them ... RG3 and Cam ... not so good at sliding .. and qb's just can't take the hits .... they won't take the punishment all year ...
I hear ya. But I think there are a lot of Haloti Ngatas in this league that will risk a big fine or a small suspension to hurt a QB within their divisoin just to give their team the edge. I guess time will tell on that one.
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your a better man than I am Pitt ... a much better man than I ....
Nah... Just a little more stubborn.
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I have no clue how anyone can defend the lombardi hire .. none .... it still boggles my mind that people just gloss over the fact HE HAS NOT BEEN IN THE GAME FOR 5 YEARS ... they act like thats no big deal and the rest of the nfl owners and presidents were too stupid to hire this guy and now we got this hidden gem .... gimme a frickin break ....
Well with all of those great "league contacts" from the NFL Network gig you'd think that he'd have learned some trade secrets like they give those reporters all of the time.........
See how silly that sounds?
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correct me if i'm wrong pitt ... did Bill Walsh, Bill Polian or Thompson ever take 5 years off in between gigs??? ... i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say NO ...
Not that I ever heard of. Great coaches and talent evaluaters are in high demand and not on TV. Like Mel Kiper. He is taughted as some kind of expert yet couldn't get a job with the NFL if you paid them to let him work for them.
Terrible resume' and poor track record are why Lombardi hasn't been working in the NFL for five years and that's the bottom line.
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I liked your format bro ... doing it like that helps clear up some of the confusion when posting on a messge board ... i also liked the content but thats cause u were right for a change ...
How would you know? You haven't been around for a long time.
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I hope all is well Pitt ....
I'm doing fine Diam. Thanks for asking. Hope all is well with you too Bud.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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J/C FBI present at Pilot Flying J headquarters Posted by Mike Florio on April 15, 2013, 4:08 PM EDT HaslamGetty Images A year ago, the presence of FBI and other police at the Knoxville headquarters of Pilot Flying J in Knoxville would have drawn little notice beyond Tennessee. Now that the CEO of the company, Jimmy Haslam, owns the Browns, it’s getting some attention. According to WBIR-TV, FBI agents and Knoxville police officers are at the company’s headquarters. A reason for the presence of law-enforcement authorities hasn’t been given, and a WBIR-TV crew was asked to leave the premises. Haslam, the son of founder Jim Haslam, returned to the company as CEO in February. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/15/fbi-present-at-pilot-flying-j-headquarters/omg. how much can I take? fan since 1968.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Written by
Bobby Allyn |
The Tennessean
Filed Under
News
News State
Bill Haslan
Agents from the FBI and Knoxville Police Officers are at Pilot Flying J Headquarters off Lonas Drive in West Knoxville.
Bill Killian, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Tennessee, said the action is part of an ongoing federal investigation of Pilot Flying J. Killian declined to comment further.
Marshal Stone, chief division counsel with the FBI Knoxville office, told Knoxville TV station WBIR that the action involved both the FBI and the IRS.
David Smith, a Haslam spokesman, said the governor had been informed of it and referred other questions to Cynthia Moxley, Pilot's spokeswoman.
Pilot Flying J released the following statement Monday afternoon:
"As of the afternoon of April 15, FBI officials have sequestered the Pilot Flying J headquarters on Lonas Drive in Knoxville.
"At this time, we do not know the nature of the situation. Pilot Flying J is cooperating fully with the authorities.
"Pilot Food Marts, Pilot Travel Centers and Flying J Travel Plazas remain open and continue to serve the public.
"Pilot Flying J is confident that the matter will be resolved fully."
Pilot was founded in 1958 by Jim Haslam. His son, Jimmy, runs the company now. Governor Bill Haslam, another son, resigned from the company to become Mayor of Knoxville then Governor of Tennessee.
Pilot Flying J is the nation’s largest operator of convenience stores and truck stops. The company has been ranked among the most lucrative private companies in the country. Haslam has never disclosed his earnings from Pilot.
In 2011, the company reported $18 billion in annual sales.
Check back later at Tennessean.com for more details
Last edited by nordawg; 04/15/13 05:49 PM.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Someone else mentioned it earlier on this thread.. the IRS is involved,, could it be tax evasion issues? I mean if the IRS is involved, isn't what that's saying?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Someone else mentioned it earlier on another thread.. the IRS is involved,, could it be tax evasion issues? I mean if the IRS is involved, isn't it what that's saying?
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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