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I was referring to our last coach. And Todd Haley was the play caller when the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl.
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While Norv Turner has been an effective coordinator in the distant past, I was completely unimpressed with him at San Diego to the point where I don't even want him as a coordinator.
I do not see us with a defensive head coach, so that leaves out Smith. I'm not impressed with Whisenhunt. We need a coach who can develop a QB, and I see nothing to indicate that Whisenhunt is that guy. I want a guy who plays to his team's strengths ..... and again, I don't see that as Whisenhunt.
I do see us going with an offensive minded coach.
I think that we could wind up coming down to McCoy, (If we can interview him) Shanahan, and Arians.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hiring a 61 year old career long coordinator is a sure fire way to end your new regime in failure.
Whisenhunt hasn't been able to develop a QB, but to be fair, look at what he had to use.
He also did a pretty decent job with Ben Roethlisberger.
I could find a way to like McCoy or Shanahan, but I'm not positive on either one.
you had a good run Hank.
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darn it dont pull a toad and flip flop on me now you had me convinced on Bruce. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I can't lie, I am disenchanted. I was pumped for the Chip Kelly and the potential it was going to bring.
I will talk myself into a new coaching candidate by tomorrow.
I won't be surprised if Gruden's name is floated. I think Haslam and Banner want a big name.
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Hiring anyone with the last name Gruden doesn't really appeal to me right now... 
you had a good run Hank.
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I have a feeling things will be pretty quiet tomorrow and we'll make one final push on Saban Tuesday, Haslam will offer him everything he has to give and once we know for sure he isn't interested then things will pick up steam.
Saban saying hes staying prior to the title game means nothing ultimately, what he says after the game is what matters.
Remember back to Butch Davis, when the rumors came out that he was going to the NFL he said he was staying at Miami, then 24 hours later he was announced as head coach of the Cleveland Browns.
Not saying Saban will leave, just saying its hard to take a college coach at his word when he is trying to keep his team focused on the big game.
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Lovie Smith and Norv would be awesome
His brother did call plays for a few seasons under Lovie. He was fired but I don't know how much Lovie played into that. The Bears are a lot like the Steelers in that the coach doesn't have a ton of control.
I'm not huge on Lovie's defense, especially with our offense being where it is. The thing I have noticed watching the Bears over the last few years is that they are unbelievably good when they have a lead. It just seems like it snowballs into blowouts. But when they aren't winning, they are susceptible to quite a bit. Although it's not like our defense is this dominating unit as it is.
I don't believe in safe draft picks or safe hires, but I would think a guy like that is as safe as it would get. He's very level headed, sticks to his game plan, and I know his players loved him to death.
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I can't lie, I am disenchanted. I was pumped for the Chip Kelly and the potential it was going to bring.
I will talk myself into a new coaching candidate by tomorrow.
I won't be surprised if Gruden's name is floated. I think Haslam and Banner want a big name.
I am not far behind I stuck my neck out for Kelly and he let me down. I wanted to belive in the J&J show and was vastly let down not much more I can do but watch.
we have been sold another dream built on lies and promises.
While I dont blame J&J for dreaming big like we do and not getting their guy I would have hoped they would have done a better job considering they knew what they were going to do IE firering Heckert and Shurmur and as such we wouldnt be even worse off right now in direction and leadership then when they got here.
Again let me make this clear they had a plan it failed. I dont blame them for having a plan. I will however hold them accountable for failing in their plan same as everone loves to hold Lerner against the wall for his plan of find someone to run this right.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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darn it dont pull a toad and flip flop on me now you had me convinced on Bruce.
My preferred candidate is still Arians.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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From what we know Haslam and Banner did everything within their power to get Kelly. What they didn't know was that Kelly was using them to get more money from Phil Knight. Good try by them.
While I think Chip Kelly was the best option, that doesn't mean the second best option (or third or fourth in our case) is bad.
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I agree i blame kelly more and said so. As many others have said and I agee if hes not 100% on board I dont want him. Its the what now that has me in the funk for lack of a better term.
We have no coach we have no GM and we have no actual direction. Not the outcome I had envisioned going into this weekend.
I know they will reset and find someone but isnt that what we've always done right up until Homlgren and Hecket got here?
I guess you could say Holmgren was lerners lacky and Shurmur was Mikes lacky we had something going forward. What except the lies youve been told do you have going forward with this team? Who is Heckerts replacement and did we aim to do better? Who is our head coach and although no one could be worse then Shurmur could be how is this this 2nd tier person.
We as fans are going to be forced to date this coach good or bad no matter what for 2 - ~ years. If hes not the man and just someone you need to place into a spot because you failed at getting your guy then how long will he really last?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Just because we failed at getting Kelly doesn't mean the next guy is going to be bad.
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So your wife is in charge of buying the food for your house.
Your doctor says dont feed your kid X but he can eat.
Your wife buys alot of x
Do you cook X?
Excuse me? That's three XXX's and that's not a family orientated subject for Pure Football dicsussion.
It would appear team doctors cleared RG3 to play. There is a reason they call those roll out plays "options". It's the QB who has the "option" to either run, pass or throw it away.
So you can sit here and try to make some sense out of blaming someone other than RG3 for running with the ball if you like. But the fact is, he had the "option" not to run with the ball.
I hate to break the news to you, but once the ball is snapped neither the HC nor the OC has any say if the QB chooses to run with the ball. If there were any way to prove it one way or the other, I would bet money that both Mike and Kyle told RG3 they really didn't want him to run with the football.
But never mind all of that and keep reaching for someone else to blame other than the guy who "chose the option" of running with the football, RG3.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I must ask you YTown.....
For the sake of arguement, let's suppose for just a minute that what was said about a HC by this FO is true....
That they want stability at the position and a long term answer at the HC position. How would a HC who would be 62 in his first year as HC of the Browns really fit into that picture?
The steelers coaching stability is what Haslam refered to specificly as I recall without looking it up and he said their model for stability was what he planned to follow. That who he hired would be here for the long haul.
Looking at their recsent past, Chuck Knoll was their HC from 1969 - 1991....... Bill Cowher was their HC from 1992 - 2006.
Considering Cowher was there for 15 seasons and Knoll was there for 23 seasons, I'm not sure Ariens is anything close to what they really have in mind.
I'm not saying it's out of the question, but when looking at what Haslam said and when doing the math, I can't make that equasion add up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Then why was Haslem so into the idea of Saban? Who also is 60+
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I don't "know" that he is. Everyone "says" that he is, but everyone said that Kelly was a lock too. I really have no idea at this point.
I just know that he said he wanted someone for the long haul and that he learned that by his experience with the Steelers.
So somewhere the math in all of this doesn't add up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Then why was Haslem so into the idea of Saban? Who also is 60+
Here's a few things I found.....
"Dan Rooney (Steelers chairman) was nice enough to spend a decent amount of time with us before he got to be ambassador (to Ireland), and he said coaching changes are incredibly disruptive," Haslam said. "He said it's really important to pick the right one and stick with him."
"From my experience at Pilot Flying J of the people that report directly to me, one has been there 27 years, one has been there 17 years, one has been there 10 years, and the newest has been there one year," Haslam said. "We want that same longevity here, and it plays well."
"I don't want us to be a one-hit wonder and go to the Super Bowl one year and not be good for 10 years. I want us to contend for the AFC North every year. If we do that, we'll be a good team."
Continuity and Long Term Hires
From every indication I can see, he claims he wants stability and a long term HC. I'm not saying it's impossible for a man to coach into his 70's because it has been done.
But from a business perspective, one would have to think it wouldn't be the logical way to proceed IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I mostly agree but I don't think stability has to be measured in 15 year increments. I think Arians could be here 7-8 seasons. I think that is a degree of stability.
That said, I also would prefer someone younger.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'm all for McCoy or Shanahan being our HC for the next 10 years.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Mike McCoy? What has he done again? Peyton rides his own Offense, he has been a OC for 3 seasons now and before that was the QB coach at Carolina, who changed their QBs every start of the season. Who has he developed again? To me Mike McCoy looks like Pat Shurmur reloaded Chip Kelly, huh? Man it didn't take this "brain-trust" very long to look like fools, lol On to plan C, D and E. Maybe Banner gives it a try at HC. Hey, many wanted our former CEO to become our HC, it's never too late when you have such football competency around
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Chip Kelly, huh? Man it didn't take this "brain-trust" very long to look like fools, lol
You haven't been paying attention have you? Chip Kelly did the same thing to us that he did to Philly this year and to the Bucs last year. Got us all warmed up and blew us off.
I wasn't convinced he was the right guy anyway so for me, it's a good thing.
Kelly has apparently decided to stay at Oregon: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/
This is also interesting:
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Now, as part of The Plain Dealer and cleveland.com's Browns coverage, Mary Kay Cabot reports that, according to a source, the "Browns walked away from Oregon coach Chip Kelly because they weren't sure his heart was 100-percent into leaving Oregon."
That to me makes a ton of sense based on Haslams prior comments about wanting a leader, wanting a commitment from a guy and wanting to make a commitment to a guy.
If by some odd circumstance kelly ends up in Philly, then we'll know that Cabot got handed a load of BS. But here's the thing, Philly was interviewing McCoy yesterday. If they thought they had Kelly in the bag, why would they bother.
Reading further down that page, you will see that Arians is back in the mix (Mediaspeak so don't get excited) he's free to talk to anyone now that the Colts season is over. I think he's still in a Baltimore hospital with what was called, Flu Like symptoms. Don't know if that's accurate or not.
I believe him not being there to call the game killed the colts yesterday.
Not that I can prove it, but this morning on WKYC, Trestmans name came up again. Just the Media saying it so it really means nothing. Same with Arians for that matter. Just mediaspeak.
But in no way did the browns get made fools of. Not even a little
Tonight, Saban coaches,, after that, we'll see if he's serious about staying put in Alabama or not. My guess is he will be staying put.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Maybe Banner gives it a try at HC.
Judging by the way he let go of Heckert, he definitely has no appreciation for the difficulty of talent evaluation. As I sit here and watch this unravel, I can't help but think "Who is running our draft process right now?"
It's going to be a loooong 3 years guys. - Worst we've ever had.
Banner had no business getting rid of Shurmer and especially Heckert if he had zero concrete plans in place. Based on how hastily he acted in getting rid of S&H, I figured he had a coach and GM lined up. This team has never had such a poor outlook as it does now.
The only reason why anybody has any hope right now is because of the nucleus of young talent on the team. - And this was assembled by Tom Heckert. There is no guarantee that whomever we get to run our draft will be half as good as Heckert. There is also no guarantee, at this point, that whomever we get at head coach will pick up where Shurmer left off and build upon a 5 win season that could easily have been an 8 win season.
Get ready for an awful 3 years.
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But in no way did the browns get made fools of. Not even a little
Nah, not at all
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...k-at-square-one
It's a huge setback for both organizations, no matter how they spin it. (And they've already started.) The Browns landed in Arizona and spent valuable time zeroing in on their No. 1 target. Meanwhile, their No. 2 target, Doug Marrone, became the new head coach of the Buffalo Bills.
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If people trashed Holmgren/Heckert for failing to land RG3, the same people should be all over this, but I already know they won't. Speaking of RG3...after 1 season he already had a concussion and multiple knee shots and "sprains". If he continues at this rate he won't finish his rookie contract as a NFL QB and the Redskins still haven't payed the price for him yet. Let's see if they can improve without a Top 50 pick in the next 2 drafts
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over react much? Its been a week...
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Thought this was funny and fitting, from Mike Polk :
"Haslam saying he didn't really want Chip Kelly is like a guy getting shot down at a bar & then telling his bros she's a lesbian."
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I've been kind of on the Whisenhunt bandwagon, but I'm re-thinking Lovie Smith. They've both been to SB's, both losing. But Whisenhunt did it with a HOF QB (Warner), while Lovie did it with Rex Grossman. That's impressive. I like that he's a defensive minded coach, but I also think he could use a strong OC - maybe Norv Turner?
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It's going to be a loooong 3 years guys. - Worst we've ever had.
Banner had no business getting rid of Shurmer and especially Heckert if he had zero concrete plans in place. Based on how hastily he acted in getting rid of S&H, I figured he had a coach and GM lined up. This team has never had such a poor outlook as it does now.
No matter how inept these guys turn out to be, I just can't imagine a worse offseason than the one under Mangini. It's simply not possible....he signed over the hill or simply bad FAs (Poteat, Royal etc), traded away 2 former 1st rounders who were the main reasons we had a 10 win season 2 years before and turned those picks along with a top 10 selection into Alex Mack and a big bag of hot air.
I'm no Banner fan, but I actually think he and even Haslam himself can do better just by watching youtube highlight clips the day before the draft. So I think we've already seen the worst offseason in pro sports ever, I think that's what I called it the day after the draft. It was so bad, it took us 3 years just to get back on our legs again...and just when we were starting to walk again, Jimmy and Joe went Tonya Harding on us. I would be laughing my butt off, if it wasn't so sad
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The only reason why anybody has any hope right now is because of the nucleus of young talent on the team. - And this was assembled by Tom Heckert. There is no guarantee that whomever we get to run our draft will be half as good as Heckert. There is also no guarantee, at this point, that whomever we get at head coach will pick up where Shurmer left off and build upon a 5 win season that could easily have been an 8 win season.
Shurmur can be upgraded upon, so I think this roster with some natural development to be expected, plus a better HC can elevate this to a 8+ win team EVEN WITH a horrible draft imho. I would have expected that from Shurmur and Heckert if they were retained, so that's my expectation level for next season no matter who the HC and GM.
In many ways, J&J will reap what Heckert sow and it will probably cover up their drafts for 2-3 years...but who knows, maybe they luck into decent drafts to complement Heckert's, or maybe they're more competent than we give them credit for. Either way we're back to "hoping", with Heckert there was this "comfort" and "trust" in his abilities. Even when he picked Hughes in round 3 what looked like a massive overdraft I was pretty calm and it turned out he found a decent player.
With J&J I get this "outsmart", "double tlak" and "ego driven" feeling again and not "doing what they're saying"...that's what I LOVED about Heckert, he actually RE-built the right way and did what he promised. He rewarded good play with large contracts....that's what keeps a group together when they see that good play gets rewarded. I think it's no coincidence that this team fought hard in all 16 games this season. This culture is part of the past regime and I'm not sure this one will be even half as honest and loyal to its players.
We will see, but until proven otherwise I'm back to my skeptic and cynic self regarding everything Browns
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But in no way did the browns get made fools of. Not even a little
Nah, not at all
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...k-at-square-one
It's a huge setback for both organizations, no matter how they spin it. (And they've already started.) The Browns landed in Arizona and spent valuable time zeroing in on their No. 1 target. Meanwhile, their No. 2 target, Doug Marrone, became the new head coach of the Buffalo Bills.
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If people trashed Holmgren/Heckert for failing to land RG3, the same people should be all over this, but I already know they won't. Speaking of RG3...after 1 season he already had a concussion and multiple knee shots and "sprains". If he continues at this rate he won't finish his rookie contract as a NFL QB and the Redskins still haven't payed the price for him yet. Let's see if they can improve without a Top 50 pick in the next 2 drafts
You still talking trash about Holmgren/Heckert and RG3.. Gees dude, it's yesterdays news. Who cares what someone that trashed Holmy and heck for that not trashing Haslam and Banner for this. The two things are Night and Day.
And no, Kelly not getting hired is NOT a setback. Not even a little. And it's not a Black Eye,.
Look, the guy is a solid college coach so naturally, he's gonna get some love from teams in need. it's only natural.
But that doesn't mean he'd have been successful. Now, if they told me they went after Bill Cowher and didn't get him, then Cowher ended up elsewhere, then that would be considered a slap in the face. no doubt. he's a proven winner. I would not however call it a slap in the face if they called him up, asked if he was interested in talking and he said no and stayed on TV. No biggie,, Dude doesn't want to coach. Cool.. No slap in the face.
same thing with Kelly, he looked, he talked, he listened, he decided to stay in College. no biggie. 7 hours of wasted time perhaps, but it's not the end of the world.
In the grand scheme of things, a 7 hour interview isn't going to break the piggy bank. Don't forget, while down there in arizona, they also interviewed Whisenhut (sp) and Horton. So they didn't go there JUST for Kelly.
Some media type tells you that the Browns and Eagles are back to square one and you think it's absolute? Gees
#GMSTRONG
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I already said that I'm happy we didn't land Kelly, because I wanted no part of his apparently massive ego, same goes for Saban....but fact is that he was pretty high on J&J's list and they failed to land him. Sure it happens, but it's still not looking "good" or "competent" or "well prepared"....in that regard, it's VERY comparable to H&H and RG3, that's my point.
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but fact is that he was pretty high on J&J's list and they failed to land him.
IT was a FACT? Really I'd say they had interest.. who wouldn't. He's wildly successful at the college level. But to call it anymore than that and then call it fact?
At least we agree, he wouldn't have made either one of us happy 
Not close to H&H and RG3
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I already said that I'm happy we didn't land Kelly, because I wanted no part of his apparently massive ego, same goes for Saban....but fact is that he was pretty high on J&J's list and they failed to land him. Sure it happens, but it's still not looking "good" or "competent" or "well prepared"....in that regard, it's VERY comparable to H&H and RG3, that's my point.
the way I read it, the Browns are the ones who said No to Chip Kelly, not the other way around. It seemed to me they could tell he wasn't 100% committed to coming to the NFL, so they backed out.
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I already said that I'm happy we didn't land Kelly, because I wanted no part of his apparently massive ego, same goes for Saban....but fact is that he was pretty high on J&J's list and they failed to land him. Sure it happens, but it's still not looking "good" or "competent" or "well prepared"....in that regard, it's VERY comparable to H&H and RG3, that's my point.
the way I read it, the Browns are the ones who said No to Chip Kelly, not the other way around. It seemed to me they could tell he wasn't 100% committed to coming to the NFL, so they backed out.
The browns met with him for 9 hours. They though they had him. Chip tells them he wants to go through the process but in the mean time he makes them believe he is all but theirs and they set up a second meeting.
This second meeting the browns show up with lawyers and a contract and Chip stands them up while meeting 8 hours with the Eagles. Leaves the Eagles not signed. The next morning and more than 12 hours after Chip stands the Browns up they rescind the offer questioning his 100% commitment to the NFL.
The Browns are using the PD to help them save face and people are buying it?? LOL, they have egg on their face. They fell hard for a guy that was using them to get a bigger payday from Nike...er Oregon.
This would be like you meeting a girl and have an awesome date with her that lasts an entire day. She says she likes you but has another date. She tells you to meet her at the park the next night at 10:00 where she will meet you after she tells this other date she isn't interested. You show up and she never does. Then the next day you are telling all your friends that decided to not date her after all; while you and everyone else finds out she was only dating you and someone else to make her ex-boyfriend jealous and at the thought of losing her he just spent a load of money on a ring.
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Quote:
This would be like you meeting a girl and have an awesome date with her that lasts an entire day. She says she likes you but has another date. She tells you to meet her at the park the next night at 10:00 where she will meet you after she tells this other date she isn't interested. You show up and she never does. Then the next day you are telling all your friends that decided to not date her after all; while you and everyone else finds out she was only dating you and someone else to make her ex-boyfriend jealous and at the thought of losing her he just spent a load of money on a ring.
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Legend
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That's actually pretty damn funny FA... I love the analogy.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It would be funnier if it hadn't actually happened to me once ...
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Here are plan C and D...or E and F, who knows at this point: http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=10461Browns in Chicago to interview Marc Trestman for head coachJan 07, 2013 -- 9:12am By Tony Grossi The Browns' head coach hunt takes them to Chicago on Monday to interview Montreal Alouettes coach Marc Trestman, according to a source with knowledge of their coaching search. Trestman is also interviewing Monday with the Chicago Bears, which is why owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner traveled to Chicago for their interview. Trestman, 56, has a long history with former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar. He was Howard Schnellenberger’s quarterbacks coach at University of Miami when Kosar took the Hurricanes to a shocking NCAA championship in the 1983 season. Trestman later rejoined Kosar as Browns QB coach in 1988 and offensive coordinator in 1989. But Trestman has long since stepped out of Kosar’s shadow and written quite a coaching resume for himself. His other NFL jobs as an assistant coach include stints at Minnesota (1985-86 and 1990-91), Tampa Bay (1987), San Francisco (1995-96), Detroit (1997), Arizona (1998-2000), Oakland (2001-03) and Miami (2004). Along the way, Trestman became a student of the West Coast offense and operated that system under Bill Callahan at Oakland to help the Raiders to the Super Bowl following the 2002 season. He was coordinator and QB coach of the team when Rich Gannon was named league MVP. Trestman, who earned a law degree at Miami, had a few lapses out of coaching, but couldn’t get it out of his system. He returned to the college ranks as offensive coordinator at North Carolina State in 2005-06, and then resurfaced in the Canadian Football League as coach of the Alouettes in 2008. His team appeared in the Grey Cup his first year, and then won the CFL championship the next two years. Overall, Montreal is 64-34 in Trestman’s five seasons. He is under contract through 2016 but would not have a problem leaving for an NFL job. In recent years, Trestman has doubled as a personal tutor for quarterbacks preparing for the NFL combine and pro day and personal workouts for prospective teams. He worked with Brandon Weeden last year and also Tim Tebow and Jimmy Clausen prior to their drafts. Trestman was interviewed for the Indianapolis Colts head coach vacancy last year. The Colts chose Chuck Pagano and paired him with offensive coordinator Bruce Arians. The Browns intend to interview Arians, too, but that interview was delayed when Arians was hospitalized on Sunday after he experienced unexplained dizziness. Arians was unavailable to coach in the Colts’ 24-9 playoff loss to the Baltimore Ravens.
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Well we should count are blessing then....we didn't have to buy a ring  Nothing like losing half your stuff to remind you that "you chose poorly" They need to find a coach that they can get behind for the long term. That's what I take from this. There isn't going to be a 3 year reset. They will chose and stick with that coach for the long haul. I'm not happy about the reset, but I have every reason to believe that this is the last one. Find the right guy. I firmly believe that this organization is going to make a commitment for the long haul...they have every right to expect that commitment in return.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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McCoy and Shanahan are still my picks !
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I'm going to go against the grain and I know this is a long shot, but my preference is Mike Zimmer.
He turned that defense around big time and his players would fight to the death for him. He has a leadership mentality about him (it makes up for Lewis' lack of leadership).
Plus, it would royally screw over another team in the division who is probably poised to be the division front runner next year.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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