DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NFL Draft II

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I could do that deal, but I wouldn't be crazy about it being with the Niners (since they seem pretty good... future 1 could be pretty late) Of course, if they stick with Kaepernick at QB in that improving division they could end up picking around 16-20...

you sold me on that.

Assuming we weren't able to further unload the traded picks for ammo next year my picks would go more like:

28: S Matt Elam
58: QB Tyler Bray
68: CB David Amerson
90: WR Ryan Swope / RB Stepfan Taylor
~102: DE William Gholston / RB Le'Veon Bell

or maybe

28: S Matt Elam
58: CB David Amerson
68: DE Cornelius Carradine
90: WR Ryan Swope / RB Stepfan Taylor
~102: DE William Gholston / RB Le'Veon Bell

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Hmm, not exactly "feeling" you on the names here. Elam is incredibly overrated imho and not much of a sure fire FS prospect, more like a SS/FS tweener at best. Amerson is boom or bust and since we already have a good no1 CB, I'd trade a higher floor for lower upside when it comes to CB. Bray is boom or bust too, but at QB and low in the 2nd with many picks, I could accept that.
Absolutely LOVE Carradine, he has 1st round talent and a massive trade down like this is exactly what would permit us to "gamble" a pick on an injury risk player that we may have to redshirt his rook season.
Not huge on Gholston or Bell, even in the 3rd/4th range

Based on cbs rankings, I'd go with something like this:

28 CB Banks or QB Wilson or TE Ertz
58 WR Patton or WR Hamilton or WR Bailey
68 DE Carradine or FS Rambo or CB Taylor
90 OLB Collins or DE Lemonier
102 CB Wreh-Wilson or CB Robey or TE Sims

I think we need 2 CBs in this draft. Starter opposite Haden is a given, but I'm not sold yet on Skrine and since no CB duo in the league plays every snap and I don't want to ever see Skrine on the outside again, I'd aim for 2 solid CBs. 1 of Banks or W-W and I'd love to get 1 of Robey or Taylor, who are perfect to cover slot-WRs and have some no2 upside too.

Not sure I'd draft a TE in the top 4 rounds, as I like some 3rd day guys who represent better value imho (Otten, Rivera, M.Williams, Sudfeld, Doyle), same with FS (Swearinger, McDougald, Boyett, Holley). Don't like that I have no OL in there, but I would strongly consider T/G D.Thomas if he's there late 2nd/early 3rd, but from a "value" standpoint getting Banks, Patton, Carradine, Collins and Wreh-Wilson would get me I'd built a shrine for Banner if he adds this kind of talent

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McDonald = T.Mays

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McDonald = T.Mays

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I'm curious as to why you think this. The obvious connection is that they both went to USC and stayed one year longer than they should have. McDonald is not the same kind of athlete Mays is (not many people are) and seems to be better in coverage.

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I think if we were to switch to a 3-4 (blech) then Jarvis Jones has to move to the top of the board.

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Eddie Lacy declared for the draft. Looks like the string of 1st rounds with a RB will not end this year. My guess is he goes to the Bengals.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...raft-intentions

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I don't think you'd be in the minority, though your dislike for Richardson is legendary.

Most fans...even the casual ones...recognize that Obi is a one-trick pony whose only redeeming quality is that he can catch the ball. He's a poor blocker and a poor runner. I believe he's a restricted free agent, but he was only here because of Shurmur's familiarity with him with the Rams. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see him sent packing, nor would it surprise me.

I personally have zero belief in Hardesty. Poor blocker, poor receiver, major injury risk.

Brandon Jackson is a free agent. It's anyone's guess why he didn't play, and nobody with this new regime has any ties to him. He's no more likely to be signed by us than he is any of the other 31 teams.

Whether it's via the draft or free agency, we absolutely have to find a secondary running back. They may opt to stick with Hardesty, but in my eyes he's an accident waiting to happen.

We need a third RB pretty badly.

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Lacy is a better RB than TRich and won't even sniff the top 10 in a weaker draft class.

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The NFL Advisory Council has advised Lacy that he's a 2nd round pick. So it's your position that Trent Richardson wasn't any better than a 2nd or 3rd round guy that the rest of the NFL had rated as a top-10 back.

Lacy isn't necessarily better than Mark Ingram, who isn't remotely as good as Richardson. And in case you're interested in the "injury prone" angle, Lacy said he wasn't 100% all year. He must be an injury-risk

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I don't think you'd be in the minority, though your dislike for Richardson is legendary.

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The NFL Advisory Council has advised Lacy that he's a 2nd round pick. So it's your position that Trent Richardson wasn't any better than a 2nd or 3rd round guy that the rest of the NFL had rated as a top-10 back.

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Lacy isn't necessarily better than Mark Ingram, who isn't remotely as good as Richardson. And in case you're interested in the "injury prone" angle, Lacy said he wasn't 100% all year. He must be an injury-risk

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It's not, just your agenda to paint me as such.

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hehehe...Oh no, my friend, your own words painted you as such.

Need I remind you that you are on record as saying you blamed Trent Richardson for the regime of Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur being fired, and that you resented him for that.

I can go get the quote.

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...and I wouldn't draft Lacy in the top 10 or 15, but low 1st in this draft...yeah, I would.

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Frankly, I see bust-potential in Lacy. I wouldn't touch him in the 1st. He has a nice spin-move, but he runs far more upright than I'd want a so-called power-back to run, and far-too often he is brought down by the first guy. He reminds me of a much smaller Brandon Jacobs, but without the sheer size, he's a big target to hit.

Now you're going to try and use college stats to compare Lacy and Richardson?

Thanks for the offer, but I'll use video and the word of the NFL's advisory council over stats. Afterall, I can show you where Tim Rattay was the highest ranked QB in the history of college football...if I choose to use college stats.

Having said all that, I think lacy should come out now. His stock won't get any higher, as Yeldon is going to be a better player. Lacy might as well start getting paid now. But any team that takes him in the 1st is going to be wasting a pick.

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It's not, just your agenda to paint me as such.

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hehehe...Oh no, my friend, your own words painted you as such.

Need I remind you that you are on record as saying you blamed Trent Richardson for the regime of Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur being fired, and that you resented him for that.

I can go get the quote.

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TRich was not a difference maker, Luck and RG3 were...that's why Indy's and Was coaches and FOs still have their jobs and the Browns shot callers don't anymore.

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TRich was not a difference maker, Luck and RG3 were...that's why Indy's and Was coaches and FOs still have their jobs and the Browns shot callers don't anymore.

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TRich was not a difference maker, Luck and RG3 were...that's why Indy's and Was coaches and FOs still have their jobs and the Browns shot callers don't anymore.

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I don't think that TRich should be compared to Luck and RGIII. Luck and RGIII were not available at our pick. So no matter what we thought of those 2, they were not an option for us. If you want to compare TRich to players taken around him to caompare value of that pick then you should compare TRich to the players taken directly after him. Just my 2 cents

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Go get it, because I still stand by that....but as always you forgot to mention the context. It's all about value with me and I lamented that TRich got them fired because he didn't even come close to the impact on his team that both the guys drafted in front of him had on their team...

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This'll be the last time I mention this in this thread. Promise.

That's BS. To have the type of impact that the two guys in front of him had, Richardson would have had to rush for 2000 yards and score 20 TD's. After those two QB's came off the board, there wasn't an impact guy of their stature because of the position, and because of where we were drafting, we had to have a guy that not only filled a role, but was a great talent.

Nobody in their right mind would hold any 3rd selection in the draft accountable for the demise of an entire regime, not when that guy actually gave some production to the team.

The man who is accountable for the demise of the regime is Mike Holmgren, and nobody else (well, besides that well-intentioned dope Randy Lerner ).

You may find it funny to hear, but I do believe you dislike Richardson because of how you view value. I just think you place too much value in your own value system. You still hate the selection of Mack in spite of the fact that everyone else on the planet acknowledges that his selection was a big win. That's your right, but most disagree.

Okay, before I get back to your question about the draft and whatnot, I'd like to comment on Ytown...

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Ytown: One stupid thing ..... after years and years of preferring the 3-4, we finally have a 4-3 with a very good DL .... and I have started to come around on that. I actually prefer the 4-3 for this team right now. Teams can attack out of the 4-3. Just because Jauron played a lot of straight up defense doesn't mean that no one has played an aggressive 4-3. Plus, if we could get one more exceptional pass rushing DE, we would have a very deep, and potentially dominating unit. Man I hate to give that up.

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I prefer the 3-4. Always have. The more the league continues to trend towards passing, the more the 3-4 can be a game-changer. It didn't work here not because it's a passe defense, it didn't work because the people picking the players sucked.

I do agree that we've started to assemble some pieces for our 4-3, and I also agree that we have some young talent. However, I think the sense that our defense is good and doesn't translate well to a switch to the 3-4 is probably too optimistic.

Rubin is suited well enough to play the nose, and I think Taylor would be fine as a DE. Taylor shows tenacity, but we gotta face the fact that he's not much of a rusher. Now people seem to believe that Rucker is a good player. He didn't bring much to the table for us, but if he is as good against the run as people think (he's not) then he's at least a rotational guy over there. Billy Winn looks like the kind of guy that should do well over there. He was projected as a tweener DE/DT coming out, so it's not at all a stretch to want to see him in that rotation.

So for my money, we aren't losing a thing on the defensive line. In fact, we'd actually gain, as we wouldn't have to find a replacement for Parker.

LB's is where it gets trickier.

When we ran the 3-4, I remember stating Jackson should be traded. He only fits well in the 4-3. Once we switched, he became a more productive player. If we do switch, he becomes a very average player.

Sheard looks like he'd be an easy fit to me at OLB. Put him next to a DE who can eat blockers and let Sheard do his thing.

James-Michael Johnson looks like a man without a position.

Same for Craig Robertson.

Gocong becomes the wildcard. He isn't a pass-rush beast, but he's the right mold. Of course the problem is how far he's going to come back from the Achilles injury.

So what are we really losing? Robertson and Johnson are effort guys but aren't game-changers. We'd have to acquire some new players anyway, so it really just comes down to the same thing it always comes down to: Finding the right players.

The Cowboys are going back to the 4-3, and Anthony Spencer, who had 11 sacks for the Cowboys as a 3-4 OLB, is a free agent. They tagged him last year so his price would be exceedingly high to tag him again. They have a ton of money tied up in Demarcus Ware. Spencer could be let go. Victor Butler could also be an answer, as his stock has been rising over the last couple of seasons.

Connor Barwin won't be allowed to leave the Texans. He'll get tagged if they don't work out an extension. If he somehow were to be let go, he'd be an easy answer.

Shaun Phillips can do the job as a stop-gap type of player. He's 31 but had 9.5 sacks.

My point is there are answers out there as free agents, and there are some in the draft as well.

Simply put, if we go 3-4 or 4-3, we still need the same amount of pieces. It's not starting over from scratch.

Back to you, Dj...

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Back to the draft Toad: so who do you like? Some names please...I know you mentioned TE Sims, he's a mid round TE I'm still a bit torn on but would be ok with asof now, although I think if we just draft him for blocking, there are multiple options in FA for that...

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I made a huge mistake on Sims: I watched the Spartans play more than once.

I'm going to show my 41-years here, but when I see Sims play, my mind immediately dusted off some old memories and pictures of Eric Green popped up in my mind.

To me, he's the perfect fit for this team. For those who aren't familiar with Dion Sims, he's 6'5 but goes 285. The Spartans have been running a more traditional offense, so he doesn't see many footballs. Having said that, he still managed 36 catches for 475 yards. The intriguing part is that the Spartans kept him in on passing downs, as he's very accomplished in pass-protection for a TE. As a run-blocker he's quite willing, and quite capable. As a receiver, he doesn't catch the ball with his body. He hands are solft and ALWAYS out-stretched. He's not an offensive lineman catching footballs. He's a TE in an offensive lineman's body.

I'm not going to embed the video, but here's the link to a game between the Spartans and the Irish. It clips out all the fluff and just shows Spartans offensive snaps. When keying in on Sims, people will see the power, the quick feet for pass protection, enough quickness on simple routes, and the amazingly soft hands for a guy his size.

Sims isn't in the same class as Eifert, who looks like a damned WR, but Sims isn't built like that guy. Sims is exactly what we need, as we don't currently have any legitimate blocking TE's on the roster. He looks like the kind of guy you leave in for all 3 downs, who will contribute in pass and run blocking, and still get you 50 catches a season, if you throw him the ball.

Now we don't have a 2nd rounder. If Heckert were here, I'd say we may have to see him pull his trickery where he moves up in the draft for a guy, but if Sims is there in the 3rd round (which I think might not happen) he'd be the guy I'd want. I've been around this game enough over the years in real life to state that I believe once the scouts get a look at him and put him through the drills, he's may become the 3rd or even 2nd TE off the board, depending on the team wanting a TE. People don't know his name now, but they will.

There is a red-flag on Sims, which I'd be remiss if I didn't mention. He got caught up in stealing some computers early in his career. The story around MSU has been that he's turned himself around. Did he? I don't know, but some kids are worth a second chance, just like Jabaal Sheard.

web page

Now I AM going to be Captain Obvious here and say how much I dig Milliner. If he was there at #6 and we took him, I'd nod my head and smile.

If we switch to the 3-4 as the rumor has it, then Damontre Moore looks like an obvious choice in the 1st. Even though I'm German, I'm not a big fan of Werner. I've seen him play 3 times this year, and though he's active, I don't see that one "IT" move that tells me he's a lock to be a star.

However, the real trick is always finding those later round Tweeners. If Trent Murphy fell to the 3rd I'd take him over Sims. (Yes, I think we're switching back to the 3-4). He's a big dude who can stop the run and get to the QB.

I actually watched Quanterus (sp) Smith, DE Western Kentucky play this year when he beat the snot out of Alabama's DJ Fluker. That made me take notice. If he adds 10 pounds he looks like a good 3rd round prospect.

Beyond that? I don't have the time I used to, so talking about names of potential 5th round guys is just throwing darts.

When the picture starts to clear up regarding our defensive and offensive philosophies, I'll do more digging. I would like a new guard, but don't think that'll happen. Maybe a change to a ZBS will turn our weak run-blockers into better players. They aren't quick enough to find secondary targets in the WCO, so this might do the trick by keeping them engaged on one guy longer. Of course Sims would fix that.

I wouldn't draft a WR. We have our two starters and our #3 in Benjamin. #4? Why not Norwood or Cooper. We have bigger holes all of a sudden.

Now I talked about RB. Forget Hardesty. I'd keep him just because he's under contract, but I DO have a sleeper, mid-round guy who I've seen play over the last couple of years that flew under the radar because he was dinged:

Ray Graham of Pitt.

He is the spitting image of Lesean McCoy, except he's probably a bit too small to be a full-time back. he's 5'9 and about 190, but he's ELECTRIC. Anyone who is curious about what a truly slippery guy looks like should Youtube him for highlights, as I'm sure there are some out there. For comparison, people should think of Jaquizz Rodgers. Both guys are a little too small to be feature backs, but both guys are untouchable in open space, and they can both catch. I'd be all over Graham in the 4th or 5th.

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I prefer the 3-4. Always have. The more the league continues to trend towards passing, the more the 3-4 can be a game-changer. It didn't work here not because it's a passe defense, it didn't work because the people picking the players sucked.

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