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I gotta say...I've spent some time watching Smith, as well as many of the other QB's. I don't see any of them going at 6. I don't see any of them being worthy of going in the 1st round.
Agree 100%. I wouldn't spend a 2nd round pick on most of the top Qb's in this draft class.
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What about Barkley ..... (whose YTown nickname of "Barely" upset one or 2 posters .... but which may be more accurate than even I thought) who so many people last year told me would be a great NFL QB? (Not you ....... but many people did)
I remember seeing people talk about how great this year's QB class would be ...... and then they played the 2012 season ..... and they turned our to be incredibly average college QBs without a true, sure fire NFL starter ..... let alone star.
That's why I was in favor of the Weeden pick. Even if he doesn't work out, we still had to take a shot at a premium QB when we had the chance ..... especially when we didn't have a premium QB. There are no premium QBs in this year's draft from what I see, and have read.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have never been a Barkley fan. I see a very good college Qb and a dud NFL Qb. I don't think he has the arm strength, nothing that I have seen tells me that he is a great decision maker. Accuracy is okay but nothing special. He plays with a very good oline and great Wr's against weak defenses. I don't expect any more out of him in the NFL than what Colt has shown us.
Plus I heard an interview (I think before the USC-ND game) where he stated that he doesn't like playing in the cold. 1st - it gets cold in Cleveland. 2nd - shows lack of toughness. Everyone is cold but you need to be tough enough to overcome it. Personally I want a team of tough guys.
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Barkley was over rated going in and is over rated going out. jmho.
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I thought this was pretty awesome. 
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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Thats great! 
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As long as we don't take him with our pick, I hope he goes in the first round.
Why not wish a lotto win on someone? 
Of course, you want to sell them the ticket? Geno Smith on the board at #6 and the Browns trade back and acquire a slew of picks in the deal. 
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The more I think about it, the more I think Keenan Allen should probably be our pick if Moore isn't there.
Werner doesn't fit here and Jones/Jordan have far too high a bust potential.
you had a good run Hank.
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Scott Pioli ranked his top ten underclassmen in Peter King's column: Quote:
1. Luke Joeckel, T, Texas A&M. Strong candidate for the first overall pick. Three-year starter at left tackle in the Big 12 and never red-shirted. A true height-weight-speed prospect who plays with good athleticism and body control. Will play early while he develops better hip and core strength. Good teammate too.
2. Dee Milliner, CB, Alabama. One of the youngest players in the draft (20), but a very experienced corner from the best-coached DB group in the country. Milliner has the flexibility, intelligence and experience to play outside corner and also line up in the slot. Should contribute on special teams early in his career.
3. Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida. Also 20, Floyd is a strong, athletic defensive lineman who, at 6-foot-3 and 303 pounds, has position and scheme versatility. Good competitor and tough player against the run and pass. Not great sack numbers, but consistently disruptive in the pass rush, and the type of player who makes those around him better by making the offense concentrate so much on stopping him.
4. Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State. Born in Germany, Werner learned football while at a Connecticut prep school as an exchange student. Played just two prep years before signing with Florida State. Two-year starter at left end in FSU's base and sub packages who shows surprising natural instincts, good hand strength and athletic ability. Pretty impressive to see he had 13 sacks in the ACC in the 2012 season.
5. Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State. At 6-3 and 335, he still has the athleticism to line up at multiple positions on the line -- not just at the nose. Active and instinctive, and showed improvement from 2011. Very good player versus the run that needs to continue to improve his every-down consistency.
6. Eddie Lacy, RB, Alabama. Low-mileage rusher (355 carries in three seasons with the Tide) who played behind two outstanding backs early in his career (Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson). Averaged 6.8 yards per rush in his college career behind an offensive line better than some NFL lines. Good receiving skills, and a willing blocker. He should be an every-down back in the NFL.
7. Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia. Began his college career at USC in 2009 and transferred closer to home after suffering a neck injury his true freshman year. Highly instinctive and productive college player, but at 6-3 and 241, could be a tough positional fit. Dominated certain games (Florida), disappeared in others (Alabama).
8. Keenan Allen, WR, Cal. Originally committed to Alabama out of HS, but decided to join his QB brother Zach to play together at Cal. Allen is a big (6-3, 210), savvy and highly competitive WR who has played the slot and outside. Lacks top speed, but is very natural and quick. In a WR class that appears to lack elite players, he may be the best.
9. Alec Ogletree, MLB, Georgia. Tremendously talented athlete at 6-3 and 232, and should be an every-down NFL inside 'backer or middle 'backer. Has the skill and ability to contribute immediately all defenses as well as special teams. Jumps off the tape and could have the most upside of any underclassman in the draft. But some off-the-field issues will need to be studied before giving him a final grade.
10. Gavin Escobar, TE, San Diego State. Three-year starter who was hampered this season by a knee injury that he played through. Good height-weight-speed prospect at 6-6 and 255 who right now is more receiver than blocker. I'm high on his ability to produce as an offensive tight end right now in the more wide-open NFL offenses. He's what we call an "F-type'' tight end, a receiver who can play off the line probably more productively than as a blocker right now.
Link
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Damontre Moore an underclassmen?
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That's part of the reason he has no job anymore  Ogletree? Escobar? He has a headcase LB and raw, one dimensional TE project ahead of Moore? makes sense Another interesting link, with the exact snap number (and "cost") of the entire 2012 draft class... http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Cost-Per-Snap-A-New-Approach-for-the-NFL-Draft.htmlWhen reading that try remembering that Lmobardi gave the Browns and Ravens a "C" grade and Bengals and Steelers an "A" 
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What exactly is that chart trying to say? That some teams have a lot of low drafted cheap guys getting a lot of snaps, therefore their cost per snap is less? If that's the case it seems logical to me that the worst teams would be looking for lower round guys to start thus making those numbers look better....
yebat' Putin
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I could care less about the "per snap cost" thing of this chart, but I like the overview of snaps for every player...that's pretty much the only reason why I posted it. I found it to be somewhat informative, that's all
Alfred Morris and Winn for example got the most snaps of every 6th or 7th rounder...
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It would make sense that a team with our lack of depth would have many inexperienced players playing a large amount of snaps.
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Quote:
The more I think about it, the more I think Keenan Allen should probably be our pick if Moore isn't there.
Werner doesn't fit here and Jones/Jordan have far too high a bust potential.
Is Milliner also already gone in this scenario?
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4. Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State. Born in Germany, Werner learned football while at a Connecticut prep school as an exchange student. Played just two prep years before signing with Florida State. Two-year starter at left end in FSU's base and sub packages who shows surprising natural instincts, good hand strength and athletic ability. Pretty impressive to see he had 13 sacks in the ACC in the 2012 season.
Werner has all kinds of natural ability that you just can't teach. He has one of the fastest first-steps that I've ever seen. He has unrivaled power for a 260 pound DE and can turn the corner on tackles as well as anyone.
BUT, on film, I haven't seen a lazier player. He is the antithesis of a high-motor guy. If he doesn't make the play on the first effort, more-than-not he stops playing all-together. I can't believe the coaches allowed him to do this.
I've gone back and forth on Werner. I see the amazing ability, but I also see a guy who doesn't put in nearly enough hustle and effort. That crap won't wash in the NFL, and if he's going to be a good player, coaches are going to have to ride him to the breaking point.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Going off of the updated cbs rankings, here's my latest Browns mock: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings6) OLB Mingo or OLB J.Jones (tough spot, would prefer a tradedown) 68) FS Amerson or OLB B.Jenkins or OLB C.Thomas or OLB Carradine 101) CB Wreh-Wilson or FS Cyprien or DT/DE Logan or QB EJ Manuel 132) OT Armstead or CB Robey or FS Motta ~170) ILB Mauti or DB Mathieu or OT Mills or CB Adams or G Uzzi ~204) and ~206) 2 of WR Boyce, P Allen, OLB E.Martin, DE J.Kruger, DE Lewis-Moore, DE S.Vallone, OT Wetzel, OLB Q.Smith, CB J.Johnson, CB Malone, TE Rivera, WR Moe, RB Winn, FS Boyett, CB M.White, RB Johnson, OT O.Johnson I'd want more 3rd day picks  As always 2nd to 4th is where the value's at. The question for the Browns will be what's better? Rolling the dice on "high end" boom/(injury) busts like Mingo/J:Jones + Amerson OR punt our 1st rounder and get 2 more 2nd to 4th rounders in return Is Mingo/Jones+Amerson better than, say: D.Jones/D.Jordan + Patton/Poyer+Amerson+Logan (or flyer on a falling QB like EJ Manuel) ?? I somewhat prefer the 2nd scenario...our 1st pick would still be a "risky" pass rushing prospect, but we'd get a "safe" 2nd round guy like Patton or Poyer and either another flyer (QB or injury player...Carradine? Jenkins?) or solid pick like Logan or S.Bailey in the 3rd/4th round range to "risk control" the draft class
#gmstrong
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We have plenty solid players. We need more impact high ceiling guys. I'm all for taking the best player at 6 and staying put. Damontre Moore or Jarvis Jones for me.
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Quote:
Quote:
The more I think about it, the more I think Keenan Allen should probably be our pick if Moore isn't there.
Werner doesn't fit here and Jones/Jordan have far too high a bust potential.
Is Milliner also already gone in this scenario?
I wouldnt take Keenan Allen til atleast the 3rd round. I think he's very overhyped and wasnt impressed with his play at all this year. Reminds me of Robiskie. Has fundementals but lacks speed and ability to create space.
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Too many scenarios for me to sort out, so here's a "little board" for me for the Browns.
Targets:
1st Round: #6
OLB Moore (pipe dream), A&M
CB Milliner, 'Bama
OLB Jones, Georgia
OLB Werner, FSU
5T Lotuleili, Utah
OG Warmack, 'Bama
FS Vaccaro, Texas if Werner can't play 3-4 and/or Jones is broken
3rd Round: #68
OLB Jenkins, FSU
OLB Carradine, FSU
CB/FS Amerson, NC State
FS Thomas, Fresno St
OLB Collins, Southern Miss
CB Webb, W&M
OG Warford, Kentucky
4th Round: #102 above, plus
FS Jefferson, Oklahoma
ILB Reddick, UNC
WRs Bailey, WVU
OLB C. Washington, Georgia
WRp Harper, KSU
ILB Johnson, 'Bama
RB3 Barner, Oregon
WRs Stills, Oklahoma
OL Winters, Kent St.
5th Round: #137 above, plus
FS Swearinger, South Carolina
OL Quessenberry, SJState
WRs Bumphis, Miss St.
5T B. Jerideau, South Carolina
WRs M. Wilson, Wash St.
OG Bailey, Arkansas
OG Thornton, Illinois
RB Burkhead, Nebraska
5T Devin Taylor, South Carolina (would be in my 3rd round group if still in 4-3)
5T Kwame Geathers, Georgia
WR Swope, A&M
6th Round: #173 above, plus
ILB Klein, Iowa St
CB Howard, OSU
CB Hawthorne, Illinois
ILB Michael Mauti, PSU
ILB Jordan Campbell, New Mexico Highlands
WRs Josh Boyce, TCU
CB Commings, Georgia
ILB Taylor, Virginia Tech
RB K. Davis, Arkansas
WRp X Boyce, Norfolk St
OL Schwenke, Cal
7th Round: #215, #254 above, plus
5T Francis, Maryland
OLB Brandon Thurmond, Ark-PB
TE Jake Stoneburner, Ohio St.
FB Braden Wilson, Kansas St
ILB Josh Francis, WVU
RB Dennis Johnson, Arkansas
FS Brandan Bishop, NC State
OL Josh Dworaczyk, LSU
OL Alex Hurst, LSU
RB Eric Stephens, Tx Tech
OLB Wilhite, Minnesota
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Some years ago I pimped Hutcheson. Then a few few later pimped Andrews.
Both dominated. One got hurt but dominated, and one should end up in the HOF.
OK....I know, they are only guards and you can get good ones in later rounds according to most GM's, but to me, Warmack is a 10 time pro-bowl type player. Why wouldn't any sane person draft that??
How does drafting a potential HOF type player hurt your team?
How?
Warmack is the safest, sure fire pro bowl type player in the draft. It's a no brainer for me. I draft him in a second. If he is there at #6, I don't blink.....especially since we drafted a running back in the 1st the year before.
But....we won't and the Steelers will, and we'll have to watch him steamroll our players for the next 15 years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree that Warmack is the safest pick, but I would say that we might need to take a chance on a guy who can get after the QB.
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...because you can sign the likes of Grubbs and Nicks and your boy Hutchinson in FA. You won't see many franchise QBs, LTs, shutdown CBs or pass rushers available EACH offseason...there's a reason teams let high end interior OL go in FA.
The reason is named "low value"...that includes that the drop off from a Nicks to some 5th round guy isn't as significant as going from a Top 10 QB or LT to some 5th round bum
..and as for "safest" pick: Gs bust too. I remember when people on here went gaga over DeCastro or JM Gilles....and DeCastro looked like crap well before his injury...in fact he got injured because he played like crap, twice that is.
If we're trading down and go with a G, I'd take Cooper over Warmack. It's still a passing league and Warmack already showed some holes in pass pro in College and he will be exposed Iupati style in the NFL. Good OL aren't the ones who pancake some DL every 3rd play and then whiff on the 5th play...good OL are like Mitchell Schwartz: getting the job done 98 out of 100 plays. You don't need dominant guys in your OL, you need consistent guys
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J/K
My hunch is we will trade down and obtain a 2nd rounder, but this wont happen until during the draft, teams will panick and give it up. I say we move back in the 15-20 range.
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If you don't have a shot at an elite QB and are drafting early I almost always prefer the trade down. Unless you have a shot at someone like Von Miller or AJ Green.
Loved that about Heckert. Hated the Richardson trade up on similar grounds.
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I sure hope so. Other wise we may have to draft a player either in a low value position i.e. guard or reach for a guy that is slotted later in the round. If the top five goes this way and we cannot trade down then who do we take?
Damontre Moore,OLB
Bjoern Werner,DE
Star Lotulelei,DT
Luke Joekel,OT
Dee Milliner,CB
Horton said he likes big guys that can run, seems Mingo fits that description.
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I was going to post something similar, va.
If our mantra on defense is "big guys who can run and little guys who can hit" then our boards probably have Dion Jordan, Kiki Mingo, and Matt Elam at least as high as anyone else.
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At that point most people would look at Mingo and Jarvis Jones. I would also give serious consideration to Jonathan Banks Cb Miss St.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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There is no way on earth I would take Cooper over Warmack. Warmacks ceiling is HOF type of guard. Cooper doesn't come close to his athleticsim or his run blocking. Coopers ceiling is 10 years of solid starter.
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Quote:
We have plenty solid players. We need more impact high ceiling guys.
Sure, but the question is:
Is Mingo/Jones less of a risk than D.Jordan/D.Jones or J.Banks?
All these guys have a very high ceiling at important positions. Jones was BY FAR the most productive, but he has a pretty serious medical red flag and some work ethic concerns on top of that.
In most draft classes I'd stay put too...and if Moore or Milliner are still there at 6 it should be a moot point, but I think I would trade down if I can get 2 quality players (we're talking one Gordon/Schwartz/Little type talent plus one Hughes/JMJ/Benjamin/Lauvao/Pinkston type) to hedge my bets when my 1st pick HAS to be a risky player at a valuable position of need
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Explain the Jones work ethic statement to me please.
I have not heard of him having work ethic problems
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Ken Norton says he has a good work ethic, FWIW: http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...d-espn-magazine Quote:
Emerging from Carver High School in Columbus, Ga., Jones was a sought-after ESPN 150 recruit with a simple plan: Head west to learn under USC's then-linebackers coach Ken Norton Jr. "I was ready to win championships and then go to the NFL," he says. Almost immediately upon arrival, Jones made it clear he had what it took to succeed. "A lot of guys have speed, but they're not tough," Norton says. "Then some guys are tough but slow. Then there are guys who have all of that but no football smarts or work ethic. Jarvis has it all. It's not even fair." Norton, like Jones, truly believed the Trojans had signed their next great linebacker.
http://atlanta.sbnation.com/2012/8/20/3255244/uga-football-2012-jarvis-jones
Quote:
Georgia's outside linebacker Jarvis Jones, a transfer from USC, led the SEC in sacks in 2011, but, according to a lengthy article in the Athens Banner-Herald , he's been seemingly obsessed with improving, especially after being held without a sack in the SEC Championship game and the Outback Bowl.
The entire story is worth your time — especially if you like reading well-written preseason hype pieces — but the most interesting nugget is arguably what comes near the end of the piece, when Georgia defensive coordinator Todd Grantham discussed Jones' work ethic — "He's working harder this year than last year," Grantham said —and what came after, when Jones talked about passing up the draft.
"They know I stayed to get better," Jones said. "They know I stayed to mature and become a better person outside of football. You get some people that are like, ‘I would have taken the money or I would have done this.' It ain't all about the money."
As if Bulldog fans needed another reason to love Jarvis Jones.
Last edited by clevesteve; 01/30/13 12:57 PM.
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Posted this a week ago...here goes again: http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill.phpThe scouts said there are a few reasons that could add up to Jones falling into the 6-10 range. First of all, the scouts said that Jones is not a good workout guy. They don't believe that he is going to test well or stand out in the Combine or pre-draft workouts. Area scouts who cover Georgia say that Jones is not a weight-room guy. He doesn't put a lot of work in during the week, but would show up on Saturday and dominate naturally.They said that Jones is a good guy and a good teammate, but just isn't a tireless worker. As one scout said, "Don't get me wrong, if you watch his tapes you'll say he is worth being the No. 1 rated player and going in the top five of the draft. You can watch him on Saturdays and see that this guy is animal. He's clearly the best player on the field, but not a guy that you'll be in love with during the week. Add in the medical concern and with the testing, and I think he's going to slide some on Draft Day." Jones' medical condition is a spinal stenosis that happened as a freshman at USC. On a routine hit against Oregon, Jones sustained the injury. A specialist told him he would be fine, but USC's doctors wouldn't clear him and told him he should retire from football. After transferring to Georgia, Jones broke out as one of the best players in college football. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not sure I'd give a guy with a questionable work ethic AND a pretty huge medical red flag millions of guaranteed dollars by picking him at 6....he has all the reasons in the world to just remain the same player: Relaxing mid week while preparing for the opponent, then "show up" on sundays....if it's enough, it's enough, and if not? Why would he all of a sudden work hard at getting better? Might as well retire as a millionaire and healthy person and I would fully understand him but I'm not sure he's the type of guy I'd pick high in round 1....especially if I'm a GM who got one final last shot at being a GM after being out of the league for 5 years and sucking at it before Sounds like a stupid boom or bust pick at 6. That's why I'd like a tradedown, collect some valuable high/mid rounders and THEN take a boom/bust flyer on whoever is left from J.Jones/Mingo/Ansah/D.Jordan. Another scenario I thought about: Rams have 2 first rounders and absolutely NEED an OL upgrade. At 16, there's a good chance that ALL of Joeckel, Fisher, Warmack and L.Johnson are gone....sooo 2 possibilities: 1. we trade 6+68 (1850p) for 16 and 22 (1780p), maybe we switch 101 with 78 too (100p gap) to make up for the remaining points on the value chart. Nobody "loses" a pick in quantity. Browns now would have 16+22+78 instead of 6+68+101 2. We switch 6th and 16th pick (600p gap), Rams give us their 2nd, 46th overall (450p), and next draft's 3rd (110-265p range) I would prefer the 2nd trade, although the 1st would give us 2 rooks who sign for 5 years
#gmstrong
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The medical thing is a concern, but someone just posted that he isn't a cancer or bad teammate. Maybe seeing how hard guys work at the next level will motivate him.
I will make this prediction now, there is zero chance Cleveland is able to trade down. There is no "can't miss" prospect.
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Last year there were a ton of trade ups:
Washington moved up for RGIII. We moved up for Richardson. Jacksonville for Blackmon. Dallas for Claiborne. All within the top six picks.
If a team wants a guy they will trade up for him. Especially with the new rookie wage scale.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Chargers are the most-likely, especially if Fisher and Jockel go at 1 and 4.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I really see the Rams make a move too. You think they're going into Bardford's make or brake season with crappy OTs and overall OL again? They absolutely NEED 1 of the top 3 OTs or Warmack as consolation prize and they aren't guaranteed ANY of them although they're sitting at 16 and 22. Their D is pretty set with good, young talent...their fans will rip them apart if they do not land any of the top 4 OL guys I mentioned despite having 3 top 50 picks to play with
You're a Rams fan, how does 1 of Fisher/L.Johnson + Cooper sound to you? Sounds like a re-vamped OL doesn't it? All they would have to pay is their 2nd and a future 3rd and maybe throw in some 3rd day pick
and I still think the 49ers could offer a crazy deal to land Lotulelei. They have too many picks and not enough roster spots...hell, they didn't even give snaps to their top 2 picks from last draft
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
Last years draft was much stronger everywhere other than DE and OLB. I just aint to excited with this class at all. There could still be players emerge as must have but right now, I just aint feeling it. Even with Fisher the hot riser, I see the type of OT that usually ends up at the end of the first not top 10.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
True, but luckily, that's not "our" problem There's also no QB worth taking, but that "could" become our problem with the Stooges calling the shots now This draft is as strong in the middle part as any other draft, that's why I want to maximize our selections in this range (2nd to 4th). The 6th overall won't make or brake our draft class unless D.Moore sits there, but if our options are down to overdrafting some QB or unpolished/unproductive boom/bust pass rusher I sure hope we try everything we can to add 1 or 2 valuable picks before we have to make that call....the OLs and Lotulelei are our tickets out of the 6th pick If we trade down we can make this an epic boom or bust draft with lots of high ceiling guys around: imagine us taking D.Jordan/Ansah in the 1st, Wilson or Bray in the 2nd, Jenkins or Carradine in the 3rd and Lattimore in the 4th and Mauti in the 5th...If 2 of those 5 reach their high end ceiling it might have been worth it, 3 or more? Watch out NFL, lol Is that enough high end/difference maker style for you and Hel?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Who's Bradford gonna throw the ball to?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
Who's Bradford gonna throw the ball to?
They have a VERY young WR corps with some high picks invested and they have Amendola
Quick
Givens
Amendola
Gibson
Pettis
That's what they hope for, but have to find out first...if anything they'll ad a veteran FA WR and not add a rook. Similar to when we had to play Massa and Robo in 2010, but with no Amendola or even Gibson on the roster
and btw: how about you look that up yourself next time around?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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