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Between him, the coaches he will attract,
What coaches has he brought here so far ? Either he's waiting until after the SB to go get some or coaches still aren't attracted to Cleveland...
I read it on my Iphone this morning, it's either on WKYC.com or on Cleveland.com
They don't intend to announce the hires as they happen, they apparently intend to announce them in groups. How the groups will be set up wasn't explained. I would assume the exceptions will be OC and DC.. Bit that's just a guess.
#GMSTRONG
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j/c... so what are Chud's plans for McCoy, after all?
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I think everyone is taking the wait-and-see approach at this point.
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They previous Browns front office didn't feel that Weeden could be sat. It's true. Weeden couldn't be sat because of his age. It shouldn't have anything to do with his draft position and if it did, then that partially explains why they got fired.
What it had to do with, is they felt they didn't have a QB in Colt, so they went out and got one. Colt's 2011 season is why they drafted and played Weeden.
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When you refer to 'they', you're making reference to the past. We don't know what the new front office will do. With the 'vertical attack' that we hear about and know from Chudzinski's past history, he might go with Weeden, but that's not a foregone conclusion.
I never claimed it was. I just believe if you have a QB on the roster who doesn't have the arm strength to go vertical and you already know this, he would most likely be the odd man out.
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But you would think that going with Weeden in the first round would make that QB position to be 'set', wouldn't you? Or, was drafting Weeden in the first place (thus keeping the QB carousel going) part of the reason? My view is that the latter is part of the reason and Weeden's age just adds to the reasons.
I believe it's very simple. Had Weeden progressed and gotten much better as the season progressed, this wouldn't be an issue. Not his age, not where he was drafted nor if the starting position was handed to him. Things didn't work out tht way so you can assign the percentages any way you wish.....
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Oh, I know it was just an error. Most times, a 10-6 record is enough to get your team into the playoffs. Just ask Lovie Smith about it. But you didn't mean it in jest. It's okay, we all have brain farts.
If you "knew" half the the things you claim, you would have a job in the NFL, not sitting here on this message board. But you don't, so you are......
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Maybe. I just don't think that Weeden will ever be even a good QB at the NFL level. I don't think there is anyone that can teach Weeden to be a good QB.
Well the previous regime was 0-2 in regards to either of their QB's "progessing". So while I won't say that better coaching will help, either the past regime was terrible at selecting QB's, or those who coached them did a poor job of it. I guess we'll find out which one.
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Other than it was reported that McCoy 'fits into the plans of the next coach'.
And yes, that's when Kelly was supposed to be the front runner and well before they ever talked to Chud. So I don't see any connection there.
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But, because he's got better command of the position than Brandon Weeden does. What they saw of McCoy (and it seems to be a grudge thing with me) on the field was purely coincidental and it couldn't be avoided in all frankness. They were simply forced to play him.
Did they slao force him to throw the ball into the ground repeatidly? Say what you will, Colt had an oppertunity to shine, and he most certainly didn't.
If you wish to look at "plays that went for over 20 yards" that's one thing. Maybe you should look at "passes in the air for 20 plus yards".
Most Browns fans saw plenty of throws that Weeden made to our WR's that Colt simply can't make. And it speaks volumes about arm strength. So you throw out anything you like. We all saw some of those passes and can see the difference. Weeden didn't light things up, but trying to debate the arm strength of Colt is foolhearty at best.
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Nobody really knows, but to say it's a 'unsubstantiated' claim isn't quite right.
Of course, that was when Chip Kelly was supposedly the Browns frontrunner for the HC job. Even so, I don't think that necessarily changes anything about what the front office plans to do in regards to Colt McCoy.
Funny thing...... What was told to Colt was "the next HC has you in his plans"... Not.. "This FO has you in their plans".... And as you yourself stated, that's when they were in heavy talks with Kelly and well before they began talks with Chud.
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This is true, but I think it's probably safe to say that Weeden won't be handed the job. Nobody knows, but they could bring in someone in free agency, draft another QB or have a true competition among those currently on the roster, or a combination of some or even all of them.
Considering the O they wish to run and looking at the evidence thus far, it would seem to me if you plan on running a vertical offense, try to retread a QB who hasn't shown the ability to produce nor is suited for such an offense would be the last possible option, not one they would choose.
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They intend to be a more explosive offense. They intend to score more points. It's obvious that they won't be running the WCO, but they could open it up like Seattle or even San Francisco has (did they ever do a number on GB's WCO?) and McCoy is better suited to that than Weeden is.
All you really need to do is look at who Chud played at the QB position when he was last here. Big gun arms and little else. Looking at Chud's history tells a pretty accurate story in regards to wht he's looking for in a QB's arm strength.
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Maybe they'll go vertical, in which case, Weeden's arm (and I saw some underthrows deep this past year) may be better suited, but he has to improve his accuracy. And in windy or otherwise bad conditions, that won't work very well at all. Can Weeden make those adjustments? You'll have to make a convincing case for that. I wouldn't want to be the one to try and make that case.
I really don't need to make a convincing case for that. There are only two QB's here that have even close to the arm strength that Chud likes in a QB. Lewis and Weeden. Rather than regurgitate the same things, please show me anywhere in Chud's resume' where he has used a QB that fits the mold of Colt?
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I still think that Weeden is the odd man out. For a number of reasons. He proved nothing this past year and it could be said that he actually regressed.
Just like Colt shown in what time he got to play this year.
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Then, it's easier to replace a QB with an arm than one with QB smarts. Also, looking at the accuracy problems of the 'vertical game' with Weeden, I don't see that happening. He'll have to improve his accuracy and at nearly 30 y.o., I don't think he can be taught to do so. His body won't make the necessary adjustments in the mechanics.
If you call "a quick look downfield, then tuck and run", QB smarts I guess you might have a point. I obviously don't see all of these "smarts" you're talking about if you're refering to Colt here.....
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Okay. And we'll have to agree to disagree. Also, as I stated previously, McCoy had a grudge against him by the previous front office and coaching staff. He stated in a post-game press conference in 2011 that he wasn't allowed to audible (and you do what the coach wants so you can keep your job) and then following the concussion he received against Putzburgh, his father's comments were used against McCoy. They never recovered from that black eye to their credibility.
Ah, the conspiracy theory! Did you ever stop to think that after 20 NFL starts they simply decided Colt wasn't the answer at the QB position? It was the prior FO who drafted him and gave him the oppertunity to succeed here in the first place.
Then suddenly they had it out for the guy? Okay.....
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That's not what I'm saying at all. We all knew the situation with Luck and RG3 and even Tannehill and Wilson (who EARNED their jobs). Furthermore, Wilson was a 3rd round selection, not a 1st round one.
So you weren't 90% sure both RG3 and Luck were both going to start as rookies? Seriously? And most here weren't pretty convinced that Weeden was going to be the starter after 20 starts with Colt were in the books?
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But, now you're just reaching for straws. The previous front office knew from the time that they selected Brandon Weeden that he would be their starter. They cast their lots with a 28-y.o. rookie QB and lost.
Yes they did. They also knew if they stuck with Colt they would lose. So they took their shot.
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Weeden simply is too old to be a rookie QB trying to learn on the job. I don't think that Chudzinski will give Weeden the job just because the previous morons selected him in the first round.
What part of I agree with you here are you missing? I think they will sign someone, trade for someone or draft someone to compete with Weeden.
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Favre wasn't in his prime when Rodgers was selected. He was on the downside of his career. And I know the situation when Rodgers was selected. He was the exception to the rule, but he was also a young QB when he was taken, not already a 28-y.o. QB.
Favre's best year was when he went to the Vikings. You might wish to check that out. Favre was not on the decline. They schooled Rodgers and started him when they felt the time was right.
It was you that used Rodgers as an example of why you don't start a rookie QB, not me.....
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What you don't do, even if you don't have a QB, is draft a 28-y.o. rookie. That is, not if you want to remain employed in your job as a team's president, a team's general manager or a team's head coach. And you certainly don't draft him in the first round.
If Weeden would have lit it up, none of your reasonings would hold true. He simply didn't. Don't sit here and pretend that if we had of made the playoffs with Weeden as our QB, any of the things you have mentioned here would have made any difference. They wouldn't.
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But you are making exactly the case that Weeden was the right choice and that the new front office will keep him on the team because the last one's selected him in the first round.
Where on earth did you come to that conclusiuon from? I said they felt they didn't have a QB and went out and got one. Isn't it obvious they should have waited until round 3 and drafted Russel Wilson?
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The new group aren't beholden to keep Weeden on the roster just because he was drafted with a first rounder the year before.
Neither are they beholden to keep McCoy. Neither are "their guy".
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If he is that much better than McCoy as many, including you, seem to suggest, then he should draw that much more interests from teams needing QBs and the Browns should get that much more compensation for him.
I really do need some of what you're smokin'!
All I said was that given the system Chud says he wants to implement, Weeden is better suited for that system. Nothing more and nothing less. I've actually agreed with you that Weeden did not progress as was anticipated by this FO.
But each system is predicated on certain tools and abilities a QB has. If a vertical game is what Chud wants to run, Weeden is far closer to a "DA or Holcomb" type of QB than Colt. It's really just that simple. So you can quit making claims that simply don't exist here.
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I have no reason to think that they had any particular coach in mind. Of course, I expected them to do their jobs and interview candidates and make a selection. But at the time that Banner is reported to have made that statement, the previous HC and GM were still employed by the team.
Well that poses somewhat of a problem for you doesn't it? According to what was told to us by this FO, the HC has the say on the 53 man roster and who starts. So either you are right and it is the FO who has plans for Colt...... Which would mean that this FO lied to us about what authroity the HC really has?
Or, they were speaking in terms of Kelly who runs a different style of O which I feel Colt may be a better fit in. Now rto me the second option seems to fit. But hey, if you think Banner was lying about what authority our new HC would really have here, I won't argue that point with you.
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You're making silly assumptions. I don't think that any particular candidate(s) were in mind when the statement was made. And you'll note that Banner has made no subsequent comment of denial about making the comment about McCoy being in the next coach's plans.
So the fact that Kelly and Chud seem to run totally different systems, that would be a silly thing to look at? And it seems that if you wish to get silly, once again, it was Banner/Haslam who ststed the HC would have the final say on the 53 man roster and who statred. So you don't think saying it's the FO who has plans for Colt sounds silly?
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If you take 'vertical attack' or 'vertical offense' to mean that passes are going to be thrown 35 or 40 yards down the field consistently, then you need to re-evaluate what you know about football.
All I had to do is look at the offense Chud ran when he was last here. The O was vertical in every sense of the word. Now if you wish to ignore the O the man has ran in the past, that's on you. And none of the QB's he used had nearly as weak of an arm as Colt.
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It doesn't require a fairly strong arm. And nearly every QB coming out of college and who is in the NFL today can throw the ball the required distance for a vertical offense, including Colt McCoy and Alex Smith. Now, if you're going to throw 70 yard Hail Mary passes all the time, then maybe Brandon Weeden is your guy.
When a QB is throwing for 70% and has almost a 3-1 TD verses INT. ratio, you have a very safe QB who can win a lot of games. That isn't Colt McCoy.
And you might wish to go back and look at the O Chud ran when he was here. No, he didn't call 70 yard pass plays a lot, but he called for the long ball more often than you might think. Look at his O when he was here and look at the strength of the QB's who he played.
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You don't see them and I do and the statistical analysis backs up my view.
Stats are for losers......
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Who's comments are you taking? Those of the posters on this board or elsewhere or those made by people with actual decision-making powers within the organization?
I'm looking at the system Chud ran while he was here and the type of QB's he used when he was here. Basic, real basic...
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Of course, that's not to say that because people in the organization haven't made a comment one way or another that they aren't formulating decisions about certain people on the roster or in the coaching structure of the team.
Unless you feel the FO is going to force feed a roster and who will be playing to the HC, I don't see where that is an issue here.
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I've already stated that every NFL QB on a roster can make the throws necessary in such an offensive scheme.
Oh yes, that's what you said. Some are much better suited in some systems than in others.
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The question becomes how efficiently they can execute that scheme. And it's obvious from your comments that your definition of the vertical offense is the Madden video game version. 
I've never seen or played Madden. I'm not of that generation. I am old enough however to have seen, remeber and undersand the O that Chud ran when he was here. I saw the playcalling. I saw the type of QB he used to run that system.
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Educate yourself about the 'vertical offense' first and don't pay attention to the video game version.
And with that, my novel of a response comes to an close.
The End
Maybe you really need to look at the O Chud ran when he was here and what type of QB he used. If you educated yourself about "thoise facts" rather than try to deflect the obvious, you may have something worth discussing.
Unless you think that Chud helps to design Madden, you really have no point here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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How long did it take you to write that post!?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I was thinking the same thing.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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As long as some posts have been lately I was thinking maybe there was an award for longest post out there!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I was thinking the same thing.
He started when the night we interviewed Chip Kelly.
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I was thinking the same thing.
He started when the night we interviewed Chip Kelly.
that might go down as the longest post on this board.
did anyone actually read it?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Not me!!!!
I give him props for being thorough, though.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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How long did it take you to write that post!?
LOL....I agree., and Pit is a Buddy.
For the most part, if a reply is over 100-200 or so words, I usually skim and scroll over.
If it is a point by point, quoted reply, I just scroll as that usually indicates a argument, of which I no longer wish to participate. I did enough of that some years back.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 01/16/13 07:53 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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All Pro
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I read it!! and for the parts I can follow Pit is correct. lol.
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Haha don't get me wrong - I like Pit too - but, man, that was a doozy.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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that might go down as the longest post on this board.
did anyone actually read it?
2926 words between Pit and Anarchy in that post.
The word "QB" was mentioned 38 times.
The word "Weeden" was mentioned 33 times.
Conversely, the word "Colt" was mentioned 20 times and the word "McCoy" was mentioned 11 times.
So by the power of math, Weeden wins!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Not me!!!!
I give him props for being thorough, though.
It was addressed to me and I didn't even finish reading it. I got only about 1/10th of the way in before looking how long it was and just gave up.
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I found it useful.
It allowed me to work on my scrolling skills on my iPad.
#GMSTRONG
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You actually counted
#gmstrong
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You actually counted
And who said "stats are for loser's."
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I was going to read the whole thing, then I decided that picking my nose 'til it bleeds would be more enjoyable.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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LOL, My wife said to tell you the size of your post doesn't matter!
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Quote:
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that might go down as the longest post on this board.
did anyone actually read it?
2926 words between Pit and Anarchy in that post.
The word "QB" was mentioned 38 times.
The word "Weeden" was mentioned 33 times.
Conversely, the word "Colt" was mentioned 20 times and the word "McCoy" was mentioned 11 times.
So by the power of math, Weeden wins!
LOL. Toad you need a hobby.
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2926 words between Pit and Anarchy in that post.
WOW! You counted every word in that beast? Girlfriend dumped you again, eh?
Hey, I hear Manti Te'o has some time freed up. Give him a call...... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I'm pretty sure MS Word counts words for you. And gives you stats on how many times certain things show up. Don't give the guy too much credit.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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 Beat me to it!
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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I'm pretty sure MS Word counts words for you. And gives you stats on how many times certain things show up.
Don't give the guy too much credit.
Yea, I'm sure that whole exercise took 2 minutes to cut/paste it into word and do a few searches.. but I bet they misspelled Colt and McCoy enough times that if you checked them all, Colt would win.
yebat' Putin
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j/c... so what are Chud's plans for McCoy, after all?
I don't think anyone outside of Berea knows that answer. But If I were to guess, he's not the kind of QB that fits a Chud offense the way he described it in the presser announcing his hiring.
So my guess is, that unless Chud falls in love with him and thinks he can use him successfully if he needs to, then I'd assume Colt will be gone. Perhaps traded. Just a guess of course.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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sorry, it was just a joke about the "You're in our next coach's plans" comment.
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I don't think anyone outside of Berea knows that answer. But If I were to guess, he's not the kind of QB that fits a Chud offense the way he described it in the presser announcing his hiring.
I would bet that Chud hasn't given that a single minute of thought... the guy was hired a few days ago.. he has zero history with Colt McCoy.. I doubt in the first few days of getting your first head coaching gig that you put 30 seconds worth of thought into.. "What are we going to do with the back-up quarterback?"
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
Not me!!!!
I give him props for being thorough, though.
It was addressed to me and I didn't even finish reading it. I got only about 1/10th of the way in before looking how long it was and just gave up.
That was probably the smart thing to do.
Long story short? Chud used strong armed QB's when he ran his O here before. He went vertical with the long pass a LOT!
When the back-up (Holcomb) came in, the playbook wasn't changed. The two QB's had similar styles. I would think that he will have a similar plan in mind this time around.
On the surface, Colt doesn't fit that mold. He could be kept for all I know but he doesn't seem close to either of the QB's Chud had when he was here prior.
It's just that simple.
BTW- For those who don't like reading long posts, don't read them. I'm sure we can all have in depth discussions with 100 words or less. In fact, when Dawg Talk first came to be, many of the posts I read on here we called "count padders". You know, just a few words or sentences to make your post count go up without actually addressing an issue in depth.
My how times change.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Well then I guess I have taken on the responsibility of balancing out those long, thoughtful posts with mine that are usually about a funny spelling or grammar mistake.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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How long did it take you to write that post!?
As long as it took Kelly to sign with the Eagles.
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Well then I guess I have taken on the responsibility of balancing out those long, thoughtful posts with mine that are usually about a funny spelling or grammar mistake.
Yes, anyone who can't spell correctly certainly doesn't know football.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Long story short? Chud used strong armed QB's when he ran his O here before. He went vertical with the long pass a LOT!
When the back-up (Holcomb) came in, the playbook wasn't changed. The two QB's had similar styles. I would think that he will have a similar plan in mind this time around.
He also went 35-3 with the Miami Hurricanes with Ken Dorsey as his QB.. then he coached Cam Newton to rookie of the year and he ran the ball over 120 times...
Chud is a good coach... he will work with what he has... He has had success with Ken Dorsey, Derek Anderson, and Cam Newton.. you can't find 3 QBs much different than that.
So you can tout the success he had here with his strong armed QB and think that makes it a trend..... but don't forget that Charlie Frye started that season and you have to believe that Chud had some input into that.. so he was not exactly enamored with DAs strong arm going into the season if he couldn't beat out Charlie freakin' Frye for the starting job.
yebat' Putin
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Holcomb was here with Arians not Chud but Holcomb/Dorsey/Quinn/Frye whats the difference?
Anyway Colt is a FA and I will put a 12 pack of Michelob Amber Boch on the Browns letting Colt walk.
I believe we will draft the backup and possible replacement of Weeden. Owner wanted his own HC and GM so you know he is going to want his own QB. May not be first but this 2nd and 3rd level of QBs in this draft are all big, strong armed QBs that should fit well in Chuds scheme.
Landry Jones, EJ Manuel or one in that category will probably be our #2 next year unless we do bring in DA.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Holcomb was here with Arians not Chud but Holcomb/Dorsey/Quinn/Frye whats the difference?
Anyway Colt is a FA and I will put a 12 pack of Michelob Amber Boch on the Browns letting Colt walk.
I believe we will draft the backup and possible replacement of Weeden. Owner wanted his own HC and GM so you know he is going to want his own QB. May not be first but this 2nd and 3rd level of QBs in this draft are all big, strong armed QBs that should fit well in Chuds scheme.
Landry Jones, EJ Manuel or one in that category will probably be our #2 next year unless we do bring in DA.
Colt isn't a FA this year, didn't he sign a 4 year deal? that would mean he has one more year before he hits free agency.. or is that what you meant?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I didn't think he was a FA either.. I thought our options were either keep him, cut him or trade him... or cut Weeden and maybe win some games.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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I didn't think he was a FA either.. I thought our options were either keep him, cut him or trade him... or cut Weeden and maybe win some games.
LOL Does anyone think that Colt McCoy can be the right guy in the offense we all suspect Chud will want to run? Going deep, attacking,, I don't see it. True WCO, I still think that McCoy could be decent.
But I don't expect him to be here. I expect cut or trade. hey, the Eagles are gonna need 13 QB's on staff to run Kellys offense.. that might be a fit 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Holcomb was here with Arians not Chud but Holcomb/Dorsey/Quinn/Frye whats the difference?
Holcomb threw for 429 yards and 3 TDs against the Steelers in our lone playoff game in the past decade?
I'd be happy picking up Jones or Manuel as a backup. If Chud made a probowler out of Anderson I figure he can get a lot of out most mid to late round QBs.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Chud Continued
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