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I have been thinking about this for a long long time.
I am all in with Chud. Love the story about a young guy working his way up to earn the job he has always dreamed of. Kind of like Bernie.
I believe all the parities involved know they have to bring in competition at quarterback.
No one in their right mind would put all their eggs in the Weeden basket.
So what options present themselves: free agent, trade, draft. Free agent is not really an option because any quarterback worth his salt would not be available to another team.
Trade: Alex Smith's scheduled $8.5 million salary for 2013 is considered "way too much for the 49ers to pay a backup."
Colin Kaepernick is a candidate for an extension this offseason, leaving less money available for the backup spot. 49ers OC Greg Roman is viewed as the favorite to join former college roommate and current Jaguars GM David Caldwell in Jacksonville. It's natural to wonder if he'll bring Smith along in a trade. Smith also has close ties to Norv Turner, who will reportedly take over as Browns offensive coordinator.
Alex Smith certainly an option. Question what would it take to get him?
Draft: In the end this is where you have to go. Nobody jumped for Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick. Although it is widely believed that there is no Luck or Griffin in this draft that does not mean there is nobody worth drafting.
If the wheels didn't come off in Arkansas and Tyler Wilson's senior season wouldn't have been compromised he would be in the conversation as the first guy selected in the draft.
From what I have seen he is worthy to be the sixth pick in the draft. I could care less about the draft boards. They are not penned by the GM's of the league. When April rolls around see where he stands on "the draft boards" and where he is finally selected. It is my hope that he is selected by the Browns.
Tyler Wilson is very comparable to Matt Ryan. He has good size at 6'3" ( some say 6'2" combine will tell), good arm, throws a tight spiral with good snap on release, accurate, smart, hard worker, leader. He took a beating this year. Lousy OL, receivers who dropped passes and no real running back. Those are factors that ultimately will help the Browns position.
Love to see the Browns get this guy. Bring him to camp and start the guy who plays the best. I have no doubt that Wilson will beat out Weeden and Colt.
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Alex Smith, in absolutely no way, fits Chud's offense.
If we had stayed in a "throw short" WCO type offense, then he might have fit that. However, Smith is the kind of QB who needs a run first offense, not an attacking pass first offense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No thanks to Alex Smith. And I would not use the No. 6 pick on a guy who more than likely will not start for us from Day One. I do not see Wilson beating out Weeden next year. Weeden will be better in Year Two, better working with Chud, better with WRs who have grown, and better with a great running game (no broken ribs for TR). I can easily see Weeden trowing 20-25 TDs next year. If he keeps the picks down, we'll have something.
We have a pressing need on defense, and must use that pick for a playmaker, either at OLB or CB (or DE, if we keep the 4-3).
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I am more than happy putting all my eggs in the Weeden basket. With his arm strength and accuracy on deep routes he's going to thrive in Chuds system.
Only problem I see is not having an able bodied backup on the roster.
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We will probably bring in some vet insurance who has still some hope to start. Matt Moore seems to be the best bet. DA would too, but I think Chud knows how his time in Cleveland ended and I doubt he would consider coming back.
I also expect Halsam to already have told anyone that he wants Bray, no matter what it will cost us. Chud probably told him he could work with him since he has a strong arm.
Weeden
Moore
Bray
That's our depth chart at QB before week 1
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There is one qb I have had in mind for the last couple years and think we should draft him this year in the third or fourth and that is Landry Jones out of Oklahoma.
He was widely considered a first round talent and would have been draft mid round somewhere had he came out last year. He might even go before the third of fourth but he is a guy I would like to take a look at for insurance purposes. He has alot of potential and could probably push for the starting job in a year or two.
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Alex Smith, in absolutely no way, fits Chud's offense.
I don't know that I necessarily agree with that statement. If we can assume that Chud and Norv run similar offenses then we can look at the 49er's offense when Norv was the OC there. Smith was stating to come into his own at that time (regressed once Norv left until Harbaugh took over). So I think Smith could do quite well in this offense.
I don't know if he will be worth what the niners will be asking for in return. But I wouldn't dismiss the notion.
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Quote:
With his arm strength and accuracy on deep routes
Ball Thrown / Comp - Att / Pct / Yds / TDs - Ints
21 - 30 yds / 6 - 33 / 18.2% / 140 / 4 - 4
31 - 40 yds / 4 -13 / 30.8% / 227 / 3 - 2
41+ / 1 - 6 / 16.6% / 62 / 1 - 0
Accuracy?
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With his arm strength and accuracy on deep routes he's going to thrive in Chuds system.
==========================================================
Playing quarterback at a high level requires alot more than arm strength. Also, Weeden is not consistently accurate.
There is no solid reasoning that points to Weeden as a franchise quarterback only wishful thinking.
Even a supreme optimist on Weeden's future in the league would still bring in competition based upon what Weeden has shown.
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When did Weeden go 11-52 for 8 TDs and 6 INTs?
Last edited by OSGuy; 01/12/13 01:10 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Even a supreme optimist on Weeden's future in the league would still bring in competition based upon what Weeden has shown.
So in a year when we are going to be changing offensive systems. You think it's a good idea to limit the amount of snaps our QBs can have (by competition)
I would give Weeden all the first team snaps he needs (as we did this year) because this is his last year to show something. It's now or never for him.
You wanna bring in a 4th round rookie to compete with him? All that's ganna do is hurt the offense.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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There is one qb I have had in mind for the last couple years and think we should draft him this year in the third or fourth and that is Landry Jones out of Oklahoma.
He was widely considered a first round talent and would have been draft mid round somewhere had he came out last year. He might even go before the third of fourth but he is a guy I would like to take a look at for insurance purposes. He has alot of potential and could probably push for the starting job in a year or two.
I would have to question Jones. When a college QB gets platooned his senior year something isnt right. If he is NFL worthy I would think that he would have his college teammates and coaches all in behind him for whatever game situation. The platooning tells me some lack of confidence. If he cant sell his abilities to his college coach, I really dont want him on my team. And NFL prospect, especially at QB should have a commanding presence and be the one who his teams rely on in any situation.
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jc
I do not think he will be available BUT what if the Cowboys put Romo on the open market?
Would you be in favor of going after him?
If so, would you be willing to give the Cowboys the #6 overall pick? What about #6 for Romo and their 2nd rounder?
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Who was Jones platooned with?
#GMSTRONG
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If so, would you be willing to give the Cowboys the #6 overall pick? What about #6 for Romo and their 2nd rounder?
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
jc
I do not think he will be available BUT what if the Cowboys put Romo on the open market?
Would you be in favor of going after him?
If so, would you be willing to give the Cowboys the #6 overall pick? What about #6 for Romo and their 2nd rounder?
Romo will be 33 yrs old in just a few months. Since we have a young team i would rather we went with a younger player, someone who could grow with the team.
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Quote:
Quote:
jc
I do not think he will be available BUT what if the Cowboys put Romo on the open market?
Would you be in favor of going after him?
If so, would you be willing to give the Cowboys the #6 overall pick? What about #6 for Romo and their 2nd rounder?
Romo will be 33 yrs old in just a few months. Since we have a young team i would rather we went with a younger player, someone who could grow with the team.
That's the kind of move Jon Gruden would make.
"Lemme throw away draft picks and young players to go get a 33 year old QB." 
I am so glad that we didn't go after him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would prefer a younger guy too but 33 is only 3-4 years older than Weeden. Romo is still a top half of the NFL QB and I think this team would benefit from that - both as a franchise and in player development.
I would be happy if we acquired Romo at the right price. I am having trouble figuring out what the right price for us would be. Clearly I would give up our 5th round pick for Romo. I would feel uncomfortable giving up the #6 overall pick(which is what I think the Cowboys would want). Where the cutoff point is, is still unclear in my mind.
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Romo may be a top half of the league QB at 33 years old but how much longer will he be that? In 2 or 3 years from now when if were lucky we are challenging for the SuperBowl is Romo still gonna be an above average QB? Like i said i would much rather have a younger guy who can grow with the team and possibly lead it to multiple SuperBowls .
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Quote:
Quote:
With his arm strength and accuracy on deep routes
Ball Thrown / Comp - Att / Pct / Yds / TDs - Ints
21 - 30 yds / 6 - 33 / 18.2% / 140 / 4 - 4
31 - 40 yds / 4 -13 / 30.8% / 227 / 3 - 2
41+ / 1 - 6 / 16.6% / 62 / 1 - 0
Accuracy?
Honestly you can give me any stat you want. I know what I see when I watch football, he has an accurate arm on deep routes.
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I agree. Romo will be a has been, if he was actually an ever was to begin with. time after time he has folded under pressure in playoff situations and will be going on the downside of his career.
And to Ytown......
In case you missed it, the FO is doing the grocery shopping, not Chud. The same would have held true with Gruden.
Which was the only reason why I considred him a good candidate for HC. He's proven if you give him the talent he can win with it.
He has also proven there isn't a QB he doesn't like. So with him not having final say on the draft, FA signings or trades, your point was actually moot....
Now if you just don't like the guy just say so. But this FO has made it obvious that the HC doesn't have the final say.
So Gruden couldn't have pulled "a Gruden" in the first place even if he had of been hired.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Who was Jones platooned with?
Thats what im curious about considering I dont get to watch alot of Oklahoma games living in Ohio. He threw for 4,267 yards and 30 td's, couldn't have lost too many snaps.
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With that cannon, he's a fit for the Air Coryell offense.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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Quote:
Quote:
Who was Jones platooned with?
Thats what im curious about considering I dont get to watch alot of Oklahoma games living in Ohio. He threw for 4,267 yards and 30 td's, couldn't have lost too many snaps.
Living here, I do get to watch a lot of OU and with the slight exception of Blake Bell (belldozer) coming in on short yardage and running the ball, a sort of wildcat, I can't imagine who Jones is platooned with and certainly that guy isn't saying Jones is platooning with Bell, that would be ridiculous.
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O.k since your from there and get to watch alot more of Oklahoma than I do, i'm just curious what is your opinion of Landry Jones?
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I think he'll make a great college qb coach.
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Can't believe we're talking about Romo. 
People shouldn't discount Alex Smith just because of this developing, pre-conceived notion about a "vertical offense." Just because an offense is going to be "more vertical" doesn't mean only a guy with a bazooka can QB it.
Anyone ever see Rivers throw a football? He has very average arm-strength. In fact, I might go so far as to say he has below-average arm-strength for an NFL QB. The way teams get to incorporate a "vertical offense" is by installing play-action passing off of a strong run-game. Receivers can only get depth if the QB has time.
We are all marveling at what Peyton Manning has been able to do, in spite of an OBVIOUS loss in arm-strength. So knowing that he does have one of the weakest arms in the league as a starter (perhaps THE weakest) it will come as a complete shock to people to learn that he ranks #2 in the entire NFL in Yards Per Attempt.
The flipside is that guys named Weeden, Stafford, and Vick...guys who are known to have three of the biggest cannons in the NFL...all rank in the bottom-third of the NFL in that regard.
So now that we've established that arm-strength doesn't play a factor in being able to get the ball down the field, what about Alex Smith?
When he was benched, his Yards Per Attempt were at 7.97, which sits right behind the #3 guy, Cam Newton, with 7.98. Manning is at 7.99. RG3 and his play-action stuff had him at an unworldly 8.14.
I think most would agree that by not saying they endorse Weeden, Haslam and Banner aren't sold on him, and if they aren't sold on their QB, that means any and all alternatives come into play. Since Alex Smith is obviously on the way out, he becomes the #1 target for any team looking for a QB, and with the Browns wanting to make a splash, what bigger way to make a splash than to land a guy like Smith?
Taking this even one step further, Smith is still under contract. If a team decides they want to cut a deal with the Niners, they may want to sign Smith to a contract extension, as his current deal runs out in two seasons. So which teams would look good to Smith?
The Cardinals. A bumbling franchise with one of THE worst offensive lines in the league. Smith might just tell that team to take the long-walk off of the short-pier.
But what about the Browns? They are recognized as having one of the better pass-blocking lines in the league. He'd be joining a coach he already knows in Turner, and there would likely be consensus on him with Turner and Chud.
Every team looking for a QB will look at Smith, and if I'm Alex Smith, the Cleveland Browns are one promising franchise all of a sudden.
Now I know the prevailing thought is that Smith is just some dink-dunker who hands the ball off and only makes throws when he has to. People need to recognize that many of his throws were WELL down the field over the last two seasons, and say what you will about the "talent" around him, but any QB still has to make the throw to be considered good. Over the last two seasons Alex Smith has made fewer mistakes than essentially any QB in the league, and for a city that still professes their admiration and love for a QB that did the exact same thing in Kosar, I would expect folks' mind to be more open to what kind of QB Smith has become. He's done this in spite of a line that isn't great at pass-blocking.
The other prevailing thought on the benching of Smith is that it was done because he isn't very good.
The truth is much more revealing.
First, people need to keep in mind that Harbaugh was the driving force behind drafting Kaepernick. He did that before Alex Smith had the lightbulb go on in 2011. As Smith played and played well, Kaepernick got to sit and learn.
The next factor is that Kaepernick has elite tools, including one of the biggest arms in the NFL as well as some serious wheels. His ceiling has always been off the charts, and we've seen what he can do. He's younger, he's stronger, he's faster, and he's cheaper.
Now the last thing is one that nobody really thinks about, which is pressure. Some QB's would fold knowing that the head coach not only didn't really want you when you were a free agent, but that his hand-picked replacement has been chomping at the bit on the bench just waiting for the chance to strike. Some QB's would go into the tank.
So did Alex Smith go into the tank?
Smith had a good year in 2011 with a QB rating of 91. In spite of all the added pressures, his rating in 2012 was 104. That clearly indicates he isn't afraid of pressure.
Alex Smith isn't a pro-bowl QB in the same mold as Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers, but he is a top-10 QB. In their playoff games last year, against non bottom-dwelling teams, what did Smith do? Did he falter or did he thrive? Here's what he did against the Saints and the Giants:
36 of 68 for 495 yards 5 TD's 0 INT's and a 101 rating.
That's plenty good enough for me, and should be for most Browns fans.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You know that any time we can play devil's advocate against one another, we both do. And it's fun to have a ying to the yang in most discussions I think.  But in this case, I can't think of any valid point I could make against your post. To me the entire Romo idea is so out of left field, it seems far more like a joke than anything. And those who seem willing to dismiss Alex Smth just amaze me! He's everything we haven't had since 1999 accept a rocket of an arm. He's extremely accurate thorwing for better than 70%, has very sound decision making with a TD to INT. ratio of 13-5 in 2012 and has shown he has the ability to win games. If anyone wishes to look at his 2012 stats, he threw for 30 or more times in three games this season and 23-26 times in three others. With having Gore, San Fran has the option of passing or throwing depending on the match-up. That's a balanced O. I really have nothing to add to your post Toad. IMO- You're dead on the money here.
Last edited by PitDAWG; 01/12/13 03:42 PM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I worry about Alex Smith because he is not bringing Jim Harbaugh with him. Smith was either average or terrible before Harbaugh went to San Francisco and turned his career around. I wonder if he can continue to perform at a high level without Harbaugh.
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Well, cripes...that takes all the fun out of it. 
Ummm...I don't like your sig. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Can't believe we're talking about Romo.
Just a random musing on my part. Got tired of the Smith talk being reiterated over and over and don't like any of the Qb's coming out in the draft so I thought Romo might spice things up a bit.
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I worry about Alex Smith because he is not bringing Jim Harbaugh with him. Smith was either average or terrible before Harbaugh went to San Francisco and turned his career around. I wonder if he can continue to perform at a high level without Harbaugh.
Actually Norv was with San Fran in 2006. If you look at Smiths stats from 2005 and 2006, you can see that Smith was progressing nicely with Norv there.
Norv left in 2007 and Smith didn't seem to improve much for auntil a couple of years later. So while that isn't anything conclusive, the signs point to Norve being a pretty good fit with Smith IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Spice things up a bit...Mission accomplished man.
I think I'm even more jaded against anything-Romo down here in Texas, because that's all I hear when people talk football in Austin.
The Texans are IN the freakin' playoffs...and they've already won...but it's the Cowboys which are getting all the talk and headlines...still. In fact, I just told one of my bartenders last night that if I hear another word about Romo out of him I'll put a Cleveland Browns keychain on the keys to bar locks.
Also, it's hard to imagine the Cowboys ditching Romo. He's up and down more than a yo-yo as a QB, but Jerry Jones loves the guy. He'll be the last part Jones removes from the equation before he starts a tear-down.
And for the record, I had no idea who started the talk about Romo, nor was I pointing a finger. Just went off Pit's post. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Ummm...I don't like your sig.
I'm hoping I'll have every reason to change it and will be thrilled if that turns out to be the case.
I like your new one much better than your last one BTW...
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Yeah, I'm still hearing the term America's team in regards tyo the Cowboys.  They're not even the besat team in Texas much less "America's team". I'm pretty tired of a mediocre team with a QB who chokes in the playoffs getting so much attention.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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not me he is a rich mans McCoy. McCoy beat the Saints and NE in 2 games. Smith had 6 years to be unimpressive. Ill stick with Weeden and his potential rather then someones cast off because they were not a franchise QB on a strong playoff contender. Look at it this way, if hes not good enough to lead team a to the superbowl and I dont think his replacement is going to win this week either how is he going to lead us to anything beyond that point. I want to get past teams not be good enough to not fail at sucking. If you think Weeden stinks then why look for someone that stinks slightly less? I think the funny part is you are talking about giving him an extention to his contract. Talk about being a pimp for a guy wow. If Banner did that I would be firmly set in my current thinking Banner is worse then any GM/owner/president etc we have ever had. BTW I have not heard Haslam or Banner endorse Gordon or T-Rich either so are they out as well? making a case for your boy is cool I have no problem with it but leading the witness saying things like "most would agree" and "arm strength isnt important"? Ok then Colt is your man. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
When did Weeden go 11-52 for 8 TDs and 6 INTs?
In throws over 20 yards.
11 for 52 = 21.1% comp. That's not really 'accurate'.
In throws from 1-20 yards, he was 213 - 359, 59.3%, 2489 yds, 5 TDs, 11 INTs.
Remarkably, he completed under 70% of passes behind the line of scrimmage. He was 73 of 105 (69.5%) for 467 yards, 1 TD and no INTs.
He threw 517 passes on the season and about 1 in every 5 was behind the LOS (105 of 517 for 20.3% of his passes)!
Compare Weeden's accuracy down the field in 2012 with McCoy's in 2011 and all you sycophants for Weeden would be shocked. 
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
Yeah, I'm still hearing the term America's team in regards tyo the Cowboys.
They're not even the besat team in Texas much less "America's team".
I'm pretty tired of a mediocre team with a QB who chokes in the playoffs getting so much attention.
Then why the heck would you endorse toads thinking of the guy that was benched on a strong playoff contender should be a smart move? Why pay someone in picks and or money and be just worse then them?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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