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If a QB doesn't have those intangibles to get you to the playoffs,then you are just wasting a year with him under center.
I look at Weeden's body of work and I see a QB that at best is a .500 QB.
He does nothing really special on the field. He's worse than a aging Carson Palmer now.
Weeden doesn't the ability to diagnose whats in front of him at a high level.
His offense at OSU wasn't exactly put together for a intelligent QB.
the QB position is always a center of debate in Cleveland. it never fails.
I think the Browns have been through more starting QBs than Lindsey Lohan been through treatment centers.
there is a reason why QBs who are drafted at a older age end up failing.
QB and pass rusher are 2 of the glaring needs on this team.
then after that its TE and OG.
if you look at the teams that are in the playoffs,it just gives you perspective on how big that gap is between the Browns and them.
it will never close until the Browns get a real QB and pass rusher
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It wasn't that nice of a surprise when he stood there for five minutes looking indecisive.
Or fell to the ground in fear before the rush actually got there.
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Quite honestly I find hard to believe that there is so much support for Brandon Weeden. Not really sure what evidence there is support that Weeden is the future.
Totally agree with this statement. I didn't see the accuracy that was promised. I didn't see an ability to read the field. I didn't see any improvement over the course of the season. I didn't see any fire or willingness to take the team on his shoulder and win a game. What I saw were glimmers a guy who possibly isn't willing or able to be an NFL QB. I think he thought it would be easier and I think he checked out at the end of the season. I think it's possible he's afraid to take a hit, and I didn't see a leader on the field. All I saw was, at times, was a the big arm but all in all what I saw was no big deal. He did have some decent moments, and even a nice game or two, but rookie or not, his season as a whole was completely uninspired.
As has been stated, hopefully they draft a guy, either by moving up into the 2nd or in the 3rd to come in and compete. I desperately want to see a guy in the Dysert, Glennon, Jones, Manuel, Bray range to come in and compete.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I think that Matt Moore is better than Weeden. Chase Daniel hasn't had many opportunities behind Drew Brees, but I think he's better than Weeden.
thanks, that gave me some folks to start looking at,,
As for Matt Moore,, just off the top of my head and without further research, his career stats in the NFL don't indicate to me he's better than Weeden. that's not a chance I'd take
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Moore_%28American_football%29
As for Chase Daniel, he's not played a down in the regular season in the NFL,, There isn't anything there that would make me want to do more than bring him in for a try out. As for being better than Weeden, again, there isn't anything that jumps out at me that makes me think that.
I guess on these two guys, I won't agree with you..
Got any others? I'm really not trying to be a wiseAxx. But I just don't know of anyone in the league right now (that's available either via trade or free agency) that is better than Weeden..
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Chase has shown promise from what I've seen... if he's willing he'd be a guy I'd want to take a look at... Matt Moore has done nothing to excite me at all...
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In the WCO, we can maybe talk about Chase Daniel vs Weeden, but I think you'd be nuts to expect Daniel to compete with weeden in chud's/norv's offense
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i think its nuts talking about Daniels period.
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Who will be our QB?
Based on absolutely nothing -- Mike Vick.
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i think its nuts talking about Daniels period.
The QB threads get more ludicrous each year.
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Ok, instead of bothering you guys for names then I"d research them. I just went ahead and looked at all the rosters..
Available or not, I took at look at them..
This is my list of guys that either are or could be better than weeden and what I think we could/should do.
Matt Hassleback. But damn, he's ancient. But might have a year to allow us to find someone else. I'd probably stick with Weeden instead of him.
David Carr.. Look, this kid could have been better than what he showed in Texas, but he got beat to death down there. Not sure he ever recovered completely. again, close, but no cigar. I'd stick with Weeden
Kirk Cousins.. 1. he's a rookie so that can be deceiving, 2. you wouldn't be able to pry him lose from the Redskins for two reasons, he did a good job in place of RG3 and the uncertainty surrounding RG3. But I do think he's better than Weeden.
Then you have the rest.. Derek Anderson (Oh please) or Matt Flynn (who couldn't beat out a rookie and what would you have to give to get him)
I guess what I'm saying is, that outside of starters that aren't available, there really isn't much out there better than weeden.
Another thing I noticed Our own depth at QB is better than most of the teams out there.
I guess what I'm saying is, unless someone can pull a rabbit out of a hat, Weeden is out best option for at least next season.
JMO
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When you start bringing up David Carr as a viable name to be your starter you're in major trouble.... If you want to bring in a vet that's one thing... but personally a coach is there to mentor a young QB... bring in Dorsey for that if you want to. I'd rather look at someone in the draft or bring in someone young or stick with Lewis as your 'project' QB... David Carr... really....  
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to tell you the truth, i'm still scratching my head over why we drafted weeden. he'll be 30 by the 6th game of next season. avg. qb's career lasts until he's 34. we drafted a guy halfway to the rocking chair. a 28 yr old rookie. that's flat out stupid.
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Matt Moore's stats are much better than Weeden's and he's YOUNGER than Weeden. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoorMa01.htmChase Daniel's also younger than Weeden and he has gotten into some games and he was a better prospect coming out of college than Weeden ever was. He just happened to be drafted by a team that didn't need a starting QB. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaniCh00.htmI would bring either one of them in to replace Weeden on the roster. So you don't agree. *shrug* No sweat off my nose. If I had my way about it, Weeden wouldn't have ever been drafted by the Browns, no matter what round. In your opinion, there is nobody better in free agency that's better? Hell, I could have added Charlie Batch to the list, but I don't want a QB that's even older than Weeden, but he's better than Weeden. 
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When you start bringing up David Carr as a viable name to be your starter you're in major trouble....
If you want to bring in a vet that's one thing... but personally a coach is there to mentor a young QB... bring in Dorsey for that if you want to.
I'd rather look at someone in the draft or bring in someone young or stick with Lewis as your 'project' QB...
David Carr... really....
Where the hell did I say to bring David Carr in? Tell me where, show me where I thought we should bring him in?
This is my exact quote:
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David Carr.. Look, this kid could have been better than what he showed in Texas, but he got beat to death down there. Not sure he ever recovered completely. again, close, but no cigar. I'd stick with Weeden
Have we fallen so far into "let's knock people" if they bring up a name.. Even if they say NO to that name?
What the hell is the matter with you?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Chase Daniel's ... just happened to be drafted by a team that didn't need a starting QB.
lol
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to tell you the truth, i'm still scratching my head over why we drafted weeden. he'll be 30 by the 6th game of next season. avg. qb's career lasts until he's 34. we drafted a guy halfway to the rocking chair. a 28 yr old rookie. that's flat out stupid.
You can't convince the sycophants that believe that Weeden is the Browns best option next year of that.
I guess we'll find out what Chudzinski does but if Weeden is the starting QB then it'll have to have been because he worked on it during the off-season and won the job in camp and through the preseason. It won't be because he's just named the starting QB without any competition for the job.
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Chase Daniel's ... just happened to be drafted by a team that didn't need a starting QB.
lol
Oh yeah, my mistake. He didn't get drafted. 
Still a better QB than Weeden.
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Matt Moore's stats are much better than Weeden's and he's YOUNGER than Weeden.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoorMa01.htm
Chase Daniel's also younger than Weeden and he has gotten into some games and he was a better prospect coming out of college than Weeden ever was. He just happened to be drafted by a team that didn't need a starting QB.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaniCh00.htm
I would bring either one of them in to replace Weeden on the roster. So you don't agree. *shrug* No sweat off my nose. If I had my way about it, Weeden wouldn't have ever been drafted by the Browns, no matter what round.
In your opinion, there is nobody better in free agency that's better? Hell, I could have added Charlie Batch to the list, but I don't want a QB that's even older than Weeden, but he's better than Weeden.
I saw the stats, Moores been in the league a 5 years and he's essentially done nothing of note, If he was any good, after 5 years, someone would have figured that out and brought him in as a starter..
Daniel has done NOTHING of at all. All he is is younger and we can find that in the draft.
You don't want weeden,, no sweat off my nose as you put it,, But don't tell me these guys are any better..
Weeden is one year into his career.. I don't think we've seen the best he has to offer. But if Chud and Company can find someone better, I'm good with that. I was just looking around,m I didn't see anything that is any more a sure thing then Weeden is., They are all a crapshoot.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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i think its nuts talking about Daniels period.
You're right. I was trying to be nice.
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Chase Daniel? Really? He is a smurf, and came out of college rated 6 spots below the immortal Graham Harrell .... and he's done absolutely nothing to improve upon that opinion. Yep .... let's try and get him for our starter ..... Now I do like Matt Moore to an extent ..... but only as a backup/as a temporary guy. He stands no chance of being a long term guy though. He's not the kind of QB who will ever carry a team. He's more an Alex Smith type than anything.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Please!
Moore's stats other then TD% is only slightly better, if not worse then Weeden's and he's had 5 years to get adjusted to playing NFL defenses.
#gmstrong
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to tell you the truth, i'm still scratching my head over why we drafted weeden. he'll be 30 by the 6th game of next season. avg. qb's career lasts until he's 34. we drafted a guy halfway to the rocking chair. a 28 yr old rookie. that's flat out stupid.
You can't convince the sycophants that believe that Weeden is the Browns best option next year of that.
I guess we'll find out what Chudzinski does but if Weeden is the starting QB then it'll have to have been because he worked on it during the off-season and won the job in camp and through the preseason. It won't be because he's just named the starting QB without any competition for the job.
What the hell are you talking about.. Show me someone that is better,, I mean REALLY BETTER and I'll listen to you.. Bring me a guy in the league 5 years and nobody grabed him up to start and bring me an undrafted FA that hasn't played a down in the NFL in a real game and you wanna pass that off as better than weeden and then be called a sycophant because people don't agree.
Gees man,, Come up with someone better that IS available and I'll listen to you all day long. These guys are no better than weeden so if I gotta make a choice, I stick with weeden until someone better if found.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Moore is still a better QB than Weeden (who hasn't shown anything). Furthermore, what exactly has Weeden shown anyone? Furthermore, Matt Moore was given the starting job in Miami last year prior to them being pressured into drafting a QB with Tannehill. Tannehill did worse than Matt Moore did, but I digress. I think that Tannehill has great promise so I'd give them a pass.
As for Chase Daniel, I still think he's better than anyone's giving him credit for but like others here, I would say that we can get younger than Brandon Weeden (and likewise younger than Daniel) in the draft. I was asked about free agents that could be brought in to compete for the QB job. I would bring up the Matt Flynn debate that was had last year, but that would just be rehashing old crap and would serve no real purpose. However, I will say that Flynn had done nothing but there was all kinds of talk about how much we should offer him and apoplectic convulsions were had by some because we lost out on the Flynn sweepstakes.
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Chase Daniel's ... just happened to be drafted by a team that didn't need a starting QB.
lol
Oh yeah, my mistake. He didn't get drafted.
Well, when the crux of your argument is that he isn't playing because he was drafted by a team that didn't need a starter, when the reality is that 1) he wasn't drafted, and 2) got cut when he couldn't earn a spot on a roster who's QBs were Jason Campbell and Todd Collins, then yes, absolutely your mistake.
He's thrown 9 passes in four years in the NFL.
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i think its nuts talking about Daniels period.
You're right. I was trying to be nice.
No more nuts than you folks getting all hot and heavy over Matt Flynn. Being in New Orleans would help his development more than being coached up by Shurmur or anyone associated with the former band of thieves that ran the show in Berea.
Again, I digress.
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Chase Daniel? Really?
He is a smurf, and came out of college rated 6 spots below the immortal Graham Harrell .... and he's done absolutely nothing to improve upon that opinion. Yep .... let's try and get him for our starter .....
I didn't say to bring him in to be the starter. I said you could bring him in to compete with Weeden for the job. He isn't any worse. And don't they have a 'smurf' as a QB in New Orleans? And Seattle? They had a fair amount of success with those smurfs, if I recall.
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Now I do like Matt Moore to an extent ..... but only as a backup/as a temporary guy. He stands no chance of being a long term guy though. He's not the kind of QB who will ever carry a team. He's more an Alex Smith type than anything.
Would you bring him in as a competitor to push Weeden for the starting QB job? For no other reason than to make sure Weeden knows that he isn't anointed to the job. That's all I've ever said about them coming here, but I would contend that they're better than Weeden. Yes, even Chase Daniel.
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Chase Daniel's ... just happened to be drafted by a team that didn't need a starting QB.
lol
Oh yeah, my mistake. He didn't get drafted.
Well, when the crux of your argument is that he isn't playing because he was drafted by a team that didn't need a starter, when the reality is that 1) he wasn't drafted, and 2) got cut when he couldn't earn a spot on a roster who's QBs were Jason Campbell and Todd Collins, then yes, absolutely your mistake.
He's thrown 9 passes in four years in the NFL.
Yeah, and he's been the backup to Drew Brees. Again, convince me that Weeden would start on any other team in the NFL other than one coached by Pat Shurmur. I have to tell you that you'll have a near impossible task if you try.
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I have to tell you that you'll have a near impossible task if you try.
That much is obvious, and it has nothing to do Weeden's performance.
Done arguing with a guy who thinks that Matt Moore and Chase Daniels are viable starting QBs in the NFL.
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Jaguars (Gabbert, Henne)
Chiefs (Quinn, Cassel)
Bills (Fitzpatrick)
Jets (Sanchez)
All those QBs could be argued that they haven't shown any more than Weeden. And all have had more time.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I have to tell you that you'll have a near impossible task if you try.
That much is obvious, and it has nothing to do Weeden's performance.
Done arguing with a guy who thinks that Matt Moore and Chase Daniels are viable starting QBs in the NFL.
Matt Moore is a viable starting QB in the NFL and I never said to bring them in as the starter (although, I think both could outperform Weeden for the job in an open competition). I simply don't want Weeden to be anointed to the starting QB without someone pushing him for the job.
I guess that makes me a proponent of these free agents for the position. Although, in truth, I don't think we'd have to bring in either if we just had a competition between the QBs on the roster now. Weeden could very well lose to both McCoy and Lewis in an open competition for the QB job.
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Good then you can stop this nonsense because Chud will play the best player at the QB position. If you happen to disagree with his choice whoever that maybe of course is your right.
Looking for solutions to problems we dont have yet is a bit premature to me right now.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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If Chud feels that Moore is better than either McCoy or Weeden ...then fine, bring him in.
My belief is that he will probably go with what he has this year, then see who is available next year. We'll probably draft a kid late as a developmental guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If Chud feels that Moore is better than either McCoy or Weeden ...then fine, bring him in.
My belief is that he will probably go with what he has this year, then see who is available next year. We'll probably draft a kid late as a developmental guy.
If Banner and Chud and our GM think Moore is a franchise QB I will be extreamly let down.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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If Chud feels that Moore is better than either McCoy or Weeden ...then fine, bring him in.
My belief is that he will probably go with what he has this year, then see who is available next year. We'll probably draft a kid late as a developmental guy.
If Banner and Chud and our GM think Moore is a franchise QB I will be extreamly let down.
Absolutely.
I don't see Chud bringing in a stop gap type QB. Moore is a stop gap.
If I had to bet right now, Weeden is probably the guy, so we can see if he can run Chud's offense effectively. McCoy probably cannot run Chud's offense. Throwing down the field to moving targets is not his strength.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Jaguars (Gabbert, Henne)
Chiefs (Quinn, Cassel)
Bills (Fitzpatrick)
Jets (Sanchez)
I don't think Weeden would start for even these pitiful teams. McElroy will probably be the starting QB for the Jets next year unless Ryan's erectile dysfunction medication keeps the blood from getting to his brain.
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Good then you can stop this nonsense because Chud will play the best player at the QB position. If you happen to disagree with his choice whoever that maybe of course is your right.
Looking for solutions to problems we dont have yet is a bit premature to me right now.
I didn't start the nonsense and I hope that Chudzinski will make good choices about who is starting for the team next year.
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Jaguars (Gabbert, Henne)
Chiefs (Quinn, Cassel)
Bills (Fitzpatrick)
Jets (Sanchez)
I don't think Weeden would start for even these pitiful teams. McElroy will probably be the starting QB for the Jets next year unless Ryan's erectile dysfunction medication keeps the blood from getting to his brain.
This is classic. You say "name me any team besides the Browns Weeden could start for" and he gave you four...of which I could probably add 3-4 more.
Your response is "I don't think so". Well duh. Obviously YOU don't think so or you wouldn't have said that to begin with. That's fantastic debate. Just because you're on some crazy island all by yourself doesn't automatically make you right though. 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,101 |
I highly doubt McElroy starts for the Jets next year, same for Sanchez. How many years experience do those guys have.And the only one that might start over Weeden is Fitzpatrick.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,482 |
Teams that could start Weeden over their current QB:
1. St Louis Rams - Sam Bradford - they averaged 18.7 ppg (compared to Browns 18.9) and he's never lived up to his #1 pick hype. If they could get out of his contract they'd take Weeden.
2. Oakland Raiders - Carson Palmer.
3. Miami Dolphins - Ryan Tannehill
4. NY Jets - ummm yeah
5. Philadelphia Eagles - Vick will be gone and Weeden > Nick Foles.
6. Jacksonville Jaguars - Blaine Gabbert / Chad Henne. Ouch.
7. Arizona Cardinals - Kevin Kolb / John Skelton. Yuck.
8. Kansas City Chiefs - Matt Cassel / Brady Quinn. Gross.
Weeden didn't set the world on fire. He had some good games and some really bad ones, but he has loads of potential if used right. Let's put him in an offense to showcase his talents instead of handcuff him. Let's give him a couple years to see where he ends up. Yes I know his age...yadda yadda...most overblown and over thought thing ever. In 2 years he'll be 32. So what? QBs can play and play well into their late 30s. If he ends up playing 8 years total for us and the last 5-6 are at playoff level, that's the most success from the QB position we've seen since Bernie and since the 60s before that. Unless you have the ability to know FOR SURE that he can't be the guy AND you have the ability to acquire someone who FOR SURE is better, then you HAVE to give the guy a couple years to develop. If after that time he's figured it out then it was worth the time....we'll get plenty return on investment. If after that time he still hasn't figured it out then he'll be out of the league. That's all there is to it.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
Quote:
What the hell is the matter with you?
Wow dude - slow your roll....
you brought up David Carr... I couldn't stop laughing after that...
Didn't mean to sound like I "jumped" all over you... I was more laughing that someone would even talk about David Carr in a QB discussion, even if they don't want to bring him in...
<><
#gmstrong
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