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And to those that said that 230-240 was too small, LT played the position between 230-240 pounds.
Irrelevant. Different time, different era.
LT played from 1981-1993. Offensive linemen from that era who have been inducted into the HOF include Jackie Slater 6'4 283# and Mike Munchak 6'3" 263#.
Would you be happy having a 263# LG and a 283# Tackle starting for us next season?
It's not irrelevant because LT used his abilities to shed and avoid blocks or using his speed to go unblocked entirely.
Would I want a 263 pound guard that can do the job extremely well over John Greco or Shawn Lauvao? Hell yes! Would I want a 283 pound tackle over the turnstile we had at RT two years ago? If they can do their jobs effectively, hell yes I would. The whole thing about the OL and DL is leverage. Sure, it takes more effort with a 315 pound lineman than it does with a 280 pound lineman, but a technician at the job can do the job extremely well despite the disadvantage they may have in weight. If it's all about weight, why not just get the fattest people we can find and teach them the rudiments of blocking? The truth is that because that wouldn't work. You have to know someone that's smart enough to be a technician at the position.
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http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/why-di...ksEnabled=false
Why did Browns hire Mike Lombardi? Go back to 1998 draft
So why did the Eagles fire Lombardi a month after the 1998 draft?
That last line is what stands out to me. I want to know that.
If it was SO GOOD, why fire a guy? I know we just did it to Heckert, but Lombardi hasnt had very many good drafts since then. If Lomardi had been a genius SINCE then, i could call Lurie a moron, but Lombardi hasn't been.
So why fire him?
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Yes, IF they can do their job. How many guys that size can do that job? Very few if any. So now you want to take a below average player at a below average size and expect him to thrive? I don't think so.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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It's funny how alot of guys around the league have good things to say about Lombo. Maybe. Just maybe they see the guy has learned over the past 5-7 years? No. That can't be true either.
 So, you (and others) are saying the hiring thought process went like this:
"Even though he has a crap draft record and had accomplished very little in 3 other stints in the NFL, other NFL people have said good things about him! .... and he might have learned something! Sounds good to me! No point in interviewing anyone else! Let's hire him!"
Now that is precisely the storyline we were given, and you wonder why people are ticked off? 
Let's see, Belichick did nothing in Cleveland but was hired by New England and has won 3 Super Bowls since. By your football logic, Belichick couldn't have won any Super Bowls in New England.
Now, let's just take a step back and look at how successful the Browns have been over the past 5 years. It seems that it has to be repeated over and over and over again before it gets grasped by some folks.
2008: 4 wins, 12 losses (Crennel) *coincidentally Chudzinski was the OC on this team
2009: 5 wins, 11 losses (Mangini/Kokinis) * Mangini hired his own GM
2010: 5 wins, 11 losses (Holmgren/Heckert/Mangini)
2011: 4 wins, 12 losses (Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur)
2012: 5 wins, 11 losses (Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur)
If you're not okay with Lombardi being hired as the VP of Player Personnel (and he held the position of Director of Player Personnel under Belichick in Cleveland) but are okay with Chudzinski being hired, don't you have a bit of a contradiction in your thinking?
If Chudzinski was hired as the HC but could learn and grow to that position, why would Lombardi not be able to do so? It doesn't make sense to totally criticize the hire of one but not the other.
I do not accept the notion that one could be thought of as acceptable but the other thought of as unacceptable. It smells of inconsistency and hypocrisy. I dare say that it smells like politics.
There's no hypocrisy, inconsistency or politics. Both of your analogies (comparing Lombardie's hire to Chud and BB) are faulty. Chud and BB had experienced and contributed to success in the NFL. In hiring Chud, JJ conducted a job search process where multiple candidates were interviewed, they spelled out the criteria they were looking for, and after making the choice told us what qualifications weighed in on their decision. JJ did none of that with Lombardi. We got a rumor prior to the hiring process, they interviewed one person to meet the Rooney rule and then named Lombardi as there selection. Anyone with a hint of common sense would smell a rat here.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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If you think bringing in an Anthony Spencer or a Shawn Phillips is the same as signing Fujita or Barton.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Just clicking on what others have said regarding ML's columns and most particularly those Draft grades...
Sure, they're lunacy to have to give those letter grades BUT they give you the clearest picture of what he, a talent evaluator, is thinking right around the time of a draft. It wouldn't be accurate to get his opinion a year or 3 later, with hindsight etc. All those articles are certainly damning because they show what he's thinking about players AT THE TIME. I'm just as pessimistic about him as anyone but look, we have no say in this. This draft will tell us everything we need to know IMO. If it's ridiculous or terribly "creative", ala a Butch Davis draft, I'll know to keep my spirits in check for the next few years. It's like puxatoney Phil.. we'll know come April if winter is here to stay for 3-4 more years or if it's potentially shorter.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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Question.
Everyone keeps bringing up Lombardi's draft thoughts on Gordon, Weeden, and Richardson...
Has anyone found anything towards the middle/end of the season from him?
We took a chance in a VERY RISKY 2nd round supplemental WR. It seems to have worked. Why is it so crazy that a guy thought it might not? Or that maybe Holmgren and Heckert DID somewhat "panic" when they traded (3 picks) to move up (1 spot). Or that a 28 year old rookie QB maybe wasn't the "best" idea?
Just saying.
Last edited by OSGuy; 01/20/13 01:27 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/why-di...ksEnabled=false
Why did Browns hire Mike LombarÉÒ? Go back to 1998 draft
So why did the Eagles fire Lombardi a month after the 1998 draft?
That last line is what stands out to me. I want to know that.
If it was SO GOOD, why fire a guy? I know we just did it to Heckert, but Lombardi hasnt had very many good drafts since then. If Lomardi had been a genius SINCE then, i could call Lurie a moron, but Lombardi hasn't been.
So why fire him?
If Heckert was so good, why fire him? Why can't he find a job if he is so tremendous?
I mean, it works both ways?
Shurmur found a job right away. Heckert hasn't. Maybe Heckert was the problem?
Any point can be argued.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yes, IF they can do their job. How many guys that size can do that job? Very few if any. So now you want to take a below average player at a below average size and expect him to thrive? I don't think so.
No, what I'm saying is that I don't want a fat slob there just because he's a fat slob.
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And what I am saying is that big strong fast guys tend to play better than smaller, less strong, fast guys
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Size isn't everything but it can be position prohibitive. I know these are extreme example but no matter how good his technique was Buster Skrine could never play LT. No matter how good a LT Joe Thomas is he could never play Cb. Why? Skrine doesn't have the size. He would get run over by DE's and Olb's. JT has too much size and no way he could keep up with a WR.
Point? Certain position are certain sized players because that particular size makes it easier for them to do what they are asked to do. Does a certain size guarantee that they can do that job well? Of course not. If a player is 5-10# off what is considered ideal does that mean that he will fail? Of course not. That just means that he has to have some other component of his game that makes up for it whether that be speed, quickness, instinct, intelligence or heart doesn't necessarily matter. if he has enough of those other characteristics he can over come some deficiency in others. The truly great players have all of these. the very good players have most the poor players less.
So CAN Robertson play ILB in the 34? He could but I don't see enough of these qualities to tell me that he will be above average.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
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http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/why-di...ksEnabled=false
Why did Browns hire Mike Lombardi? Go back to 1998 draft
So why did the Eagles fire Lombardi a month after the 1998 draft?
That last line is what stands out to me. I want to know that.
If it was SO GOOD, why fire a guy? I know we just did it to Heckert, but Lombardi hasnt had very many good drafts since then. If Lomardi had been a genius SINCE then, i could call Lurie a moron, but Lombardi hasn't been.
So why fire him?
read the article for your answer. The team brought in a new director of operations and he wanted his own team in place.
Happens all the time.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
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http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/why-di...ksEnabled=false
Why did Browns hire Mike Lombardi? Go back to 1998 draft
So why did the Eagles fire Lombardi a month after the 1998 draft?
That last line is what stands out to me. I want to know that.
If it was SO GOOD, why fire a guy? I know we just did it to Heckert, but Lombardi hasnt had very many good drafts since then. If Lomardi had been a genius SINCE then, i could call Lurie a moron, but Lombardi hasn't been.
So why fire him?
read the article for your answer. The team brought in a new director of operations and he wanted his own team in place.
Happens all the time.
Yes that was the guy being interviewed's take on it. BUT he's a friend of Lomardi's. I'm just saying It would be interesting to get a 3rd party take on it.
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People seem to think we will be running the Mangini/Romeo 3-4 again. That is far from the case. Horton's scheme is based on speed and attacking. Washington looks smaller than Robertson and he did pretty good for Horton.
It is not a stand your ground discipline defense. Horton blitzes more than anyone in the league and most of his backers are probably same size or smaller than ours. I would not be surprised at all if Robertson and DQ aren't our starting inside backers.
Rush backer is the big thing we need. Hell Sheard probably dropped into coverage more this year than he will next year. Horton's defense gets after it. Hell dont be surprised to see 170lbs of buster skrine blitzing.
But we don't have a pass rush monster on the outside..thats why I want Moore or a couple of other pass rushers from this draft.
If they were to take Jones..he's got to go to the weakside.
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5. I think it's moot now that Mike Lombardi has returned to Cleveland as vice president of player personnel, but with the Mike Reiss report on ESPNBoston that Floyd Reese won't return to the Patriots as personnel executive in 2013, I'll believe that could well have been Lombardi's job if he hadn't found an exit from NFL Network to Cleveland.
Link
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Earlier, Damanshot asked why they hired Lombardi. My tin foil hat says his unpopularity was part of the appeal to banner. If he fails , there's a readymade and believable scapegoat.
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I'll go out on a limb and say that with their vast experience Turner and Hortons opinions will carry as much or more weight than Lombardis. He's just another sounding board there IMO. You cant ignore those guys experience with HC backing.
Last edited by 1oldMutt; 01/21/13 03:03 PM.
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I'll go out on a limb and say that with their vast experience Turner and Hortons opinions will carry as much or more weight than Lombardis. He's just another sounding board there IMO. You cant ignore those guys experience with HC backing.
that's what I've been thinking and saying, but some folks feel that because he's clearly Banners boy and has the VP title, he'll carry more weight than the HC, DC and OC when it comes to players. I don't believe it. Not when you got a guy like Turner who's considered one of the best OC's ever and a DC that is clearly an up and comer and a young HC that you just dropped a load of dough on.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'd be a lot calmer if Reese was in here instead of that Lombardi..of course that was never going to happen once Banner was hired.
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And from the start Haslam and Banner said they want a guy to come in and be HC and have that final say over the roster
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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And from the start Haslam and Banner said they want a guy to come in and be HC and have that final say over the roster
yes they have and they also said they'd reach agreement or not move on folks.
I really don't think Lombardi is going to have anywhere near the power that some folks think he's gonna have..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'll go out on a limb and say that with their vast experience Turner and Hortons opinions will carry as much or more weight than Lombardis. He's just another sounding board there IMO. You cant ignore those guys experience with HC backing.
See, here is the problem though... Somebody has to run the scouting effort. Somebody has to put together the criteria for evaluating college and FA talent. Somebody has to evaluate what the scouts are reporting and make some preliminary rankings for the "brain trust" to consider. The coaches simply don't have time to put eyes on all the available talent out there.
IMO, since that guy is, apparently, going to be Lombardi, we're in trouble because I have ZERO confidence in his ability to objectively and competently analyze the data the scouts provide and make solid, trustworthy recommendations. There is absolutely nothing in his resume that would indicate that he is any good at what he's being hired to do. That's incredibly discouraging to me.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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U need to listen to that presser again..they're supposed to have a collective on the final roster..but most of know who that will be..Banner.
Chud will have a ton of imput of the type of players he wants and they'll go get them for him..supposedly.
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And from the start Haslam and Banner said they want a guy to come in and be HC and have that final say over the roster
yes they have and they also said they'd reach agreement or not move on folks.
I really don't think Lombardi is going to have anywhere near the power that some folks think he's gonna have..
Im on this boat as well. I think he may arrange the data from the scouts, and deal with the press.
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But I do have some faith that Banner, Haslam, Chud, Turner ect. have the wisdom to say, "Uuummm, we think you should go back to the drawing board. Not what we are seeking".
If Lombardi is too myopic the rest will over ride him. That is IF this things turns out the way its planned.
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I really don't think Lombardi is going to have anywhere near the power that some folks think he's gonna have..
I agree. I think a lot of this stems from J&Js comment midseason when they took over that they would have to approve all roster moves... .which I took to mean until they had their own guys in place they didn't want Heckert or some other lame duck within the organization trading players away or doing anything stupid...
Now how much influence Lombardi will have in all of this I don't know.. I'm hoping it's some but not the final say...
yebat' Putin
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I've thought from the the start that 50% of the lombardi scorn was a not so stellar track record and 50% was the picking of 17 year old scab.
We have a bad arse coaching staff in place and Lombardi isnt killing my excitement.
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I've thought from the the start that 50% of the lombardi scorn was a not so stellar track record and 50% was the picking of 17 year old scab.
The guy worked for Bill Walsh for a while, then Belichick, then Andy Reid all in some scouting/personnel capacity.. either the guy isn't as stupid as some on here want to believe or he is quite the salesman, because none of those coaches hire or let a guy hang around if he's a total moron...
yebat' Putin
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I think he drafted Jerry Rice.
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And as Peter King said, he was probably going to be hired by Belichick again if we didn't hire him.
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I've thought from the the start that 50% of the lombardi scorn was a not so stellar track record and 50% was the picking of 17 year old scab.
The guy worked for Bill Walsh for a while, then Belichick, then Andy Reid all in some scouting/personnel capacity.. either the guy isn't as stupid as some on here want to believe or he is quite the salesman, because none of those coaches hire or let a guy hang around if he's a total moron...
Didn't all those guys also fire him?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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And as Peter King said, he was probably going to be hired by Belichick again if we didn't hire him.
another guy who probably insists "we will reach a consensus."
I'm just sayin'...
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No.
Belichick hired him away from the 49ers. Belichick and Lombardi were both fired when the team moved to Baltimore.
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Everyone gets fired in the league at some point.
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Everyone gets fired in the league at some point.
I know. I was addressing the point that if Walsh, Belichek and Reid would let him work for them then he cannot be that stupid. My point is that he got the job then they fired him.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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No.
Belichick hired him away from the 49ers. Belichick and Lombardi were both fired when the team moved to Baltimore.
I am sure that I read that Walsh fired him. Don't have time to look for the link.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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5. I think it's moot now that Mike Lombardi has returned to Cleveland as vice president of player personnel, but with the Mike Reiss report on ESPNBoston that Floyd Reese won't return to the Patriots as personnel executive in 2013, I'll believe that could well have been Lombardi's job if he hadn't found an exit from NFL Network to Cleveland.
Link
Is that supposed to be a positive comment about Mike Lombardi?
Maybe Peter King was tired, dreaming or had a couple of drinks when he arranged the words for this comment ?..."I'll believe that could well have been Lombardi's job"...
If King had a source for this information he should have referenced it rather than make some convoluted comment such as this.
Looks to me like Banner has been working his media contacts trying to manufacture some positive comments in support of his unpopular pick for GM, Mike Lombardi.
Banner does not appear to take media or fan criticism very well and looks to be having a hard time accepting the negative press concerning the Lombardi hire.
I think the Haslam/Banner honeymoon period is over...I'll give them 2 yrs to get this team in the playoffs.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I'll go out on a limb and say that with their vast experience Turner and Hortons opinions will carry as much or more weight than Lombardis. He's just another sounding board there IMO. You cant ignore those guys experience with HC backing.
See, here is the problem though... Somebody has to run the scouting effort. Somebody has to put together the criteria for evaluating college and FA talent. Somebody has to evaluate what the scouts are reporting and make some preliminary rankings for the "brain trust" to consider. The coaches simply don't have time to put eyes on all the available talent out there.
IMO, since that guy is, apparently, going to be Lombardi, we're in trouble because I have ZERO confidence in his ability to objectively and competently analyze the data the scouts provide and make solid, trustworthy recommendations. There is absolutely nothing in his resume that would indicate that he is any good at what he's being hired to do. That's incredibly discouraging to me.
+1
Joe Thomas #73
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I'll give them 2 yrs to get this team in the playoffs.
...says the guy who's been been crowing about continuity being the key to success since Haslam bought the team.
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Quote:
Maybe Peter King was tired, dreaming or had a couple of drinks when he arranged the words for this comment ?..."I'll believe that could well have been Lombardi's job"...
If King had a source for this information he should have referenced it rather than make some convoluted comment such as this.
Quote:
Looks to me like Banner has been working his media contacts trying to manufacture some positive comments in support of his unpopular pick for GM, Mike Lombardi.
Banner does not appear to take media or fan criticism very well and looks to be having a hard time accepting the negative press concerning the Lombardi hire.
As it relates to convoluted comments without sources....
Peter King said "I'll believe..." it's his opinion, he doesn't need a source... just like you said, "Looks to me like..." and "Banner appears..." those are your opinion so you don't need a source either...
yebat' Putin
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