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I'm really hoping he shows the 1-10 defense. Seriously, good luck throwing at that scheme.
well, we saw Romeo go with a 10-1 defense at one point (that UFO defense that had everyone on the LOS).
#gmstrong
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Based on your sig and your comments, you HAVE had it, haven't you, hehe.
Of course if you sell your seats this'll be the year we go to the playoffs, so... 
LOL funny you should say that,, look at your sig, sounds like you have your opinion of them as well LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If you don't like it, maybe you should be more careful next time. Your list was to prove your point and not mine. Epic fail. Don't blame me for your screw up.
Free advice - when you're in a hole, quit digging.
Telling someone who has thoroughly debunked your incorrect claim that they've failed epically makes you look foolish. It's a lot better of a look to just say 'You know what, I was wrong.'
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If you don't like it, maybe you should be more careful next time. Your list was to prove your point and not mine. Epic fail. Don't blame me for your screw up.
Free advice - when you're in a hole, quit digging.
Telling someone who has thoroughly debunked your incorrect claim that they've failed epically makes you look foolish. It's a lot better of a look to just say 'You know what, I was wrong.'
You and Toad are funny guys. He makes a list and says DE's are cheap. I use his own list to show how wrong he can be.
His theory is we have a lesser talent at DE so he won't cost much. I used players that were on GOOD D's. So yeah, if you want a crappy DE and a less than stellar D, you can get a cheap one.
But here's the catch. On a three WR two TE set from an oposing O, you'll have 2 LBer's in coverage. That's why stellar 3-4 D's have at least one great DE.
So yeah, let's have a mediocre D with no stellar DE on the roster. That makes a lot of sense. You guys crack me up!
Here ya go boys. Since we HAVE Horton, let's look at the Cardinals. Surely you can't deny that Ray Horton will want to run a defense like Ray Horton? Right?
So let's see how much the Cards invested at the DE position. I know, I know, it means nothing yet again.
Sep 1, 2010
Dockett, who signed his last contract extension in 2006 and was already asking for another one before the 2008 season, had mentioned a time or two – or 200 – over the past two years his desire for a new deal. Now he finally has it, a contract that will keep him in Arizona through the 2015 season. Dockett will get about $30 million in guarantees, with the contract’s worth about $48 million (Dockett’s old contract, which ran through 2011, was to pay him $3.75 million in salary this season and $4 million next season).
Horton Knows A Good DE Won't Come Cheap
Last edited by PitDAWG; 01/30/13 02:10 PM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What was Mario Williams' contract worth?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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What was Mario Williams' contract worth?
6yrs/90-100 million. 50 guaranteed
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What was Mario Williams' contract worth?
6yrs/90-100 million. 50 guaranteed
Big money
Not sure I'd wanna pay that for anyone but a QB and even then, it's a question.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What was Mario Williams' contract worth?
6yrs/90-100 million. 50 guaranteed
Big money
Not sure I'd wanna pay that for anyone but a QB and even then, it's a question.
Only a QB who you have drafted and developed and are 100% sure he's going to be the guy for the next 10 years.
I don't know if I would ever hand that out to a FA that wasn't already on my team. I know we want the Browns to spend but I credit them for not pulling a move like that recently.
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What was Mario Williams' contract worth?
6yrs/90-100 million. 50 guaranteed
Just for my own clarification, weren't they talking about 3-4 defensive ends? Williams plays in a 4-3 in Buffalo, correct?
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What was Mario Williams' contract worth?
6yrs/90-100 million. 50 guaranteed
Just for my own clarification, weren't they talking about 3-4 defensive ends? Williams plays in a 4-3 in Buffalo, correct?
It was a back-handed demonstration of premium 4-3 DE pay vs. premium 3-4 DE pay.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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j/c
Here's a list of 3-4 DEs and their contracts that I could find (via Rotoworld)
Quinton Coples - NYJ - 4 year 8.8 with 4.8 SB signed 2012
Muhammad Wilkerson - NYJ - 4 year 6.87 with 3.5 SB signed 2011
Haloti Ngata - BAL - 5 year 61 with 37.1 guaranteed signed 2011
Pernell McPhee - BAL - 4 year 2.2 signed 2011
Ziggy Hood - PIT - 5 year 8.7 million with 6.1 guaranteed signed in 2009
Brett Keisel - PIT - 5 year 18.885 with 5 mil SB signed in 2009
J.J. Watt - HOU - 4 year 11.23 with 6.67 SB signed in 2011
Antonio Smith - HOU - 5 year 35.5 with 12.5 SB signed in 2009
Cory Redding - IND - 3 year 10.5 with 2.675 bonus money signed 2012
Fili Moala - IND - 4 year 3.01 with 1.3 SB signed in 2008
Tyson Jackson - KC - 2 year 21.75 with 6.5 SB signed 2012
Ropati Pitoitua - KC - 1 year 1.15 signed 2012
Corey Liuget - SD - 4 year 8.316 with 4.6 SB signed 2011
Vaughn Martin - SD - 4 year 2.24 signed 2008
Marcus Spears - DAL - 5 year 19.2 with 4.2 SB signed 2011
Jason Hatcher - DAL - 3 year 6 with 2.5 SB signed 2011
Stephen Bowen - WAS - 5 year 27.5 with 12.5 guaranteed signed 2011
Jarvis Jenkins - WAS - 4 year 4.8 with 2 SB signed 2011
Ryan Pickett - GB - 4 year 25 with 10 guaranteed signed 2010
C.J. Wilson - GB - 4 year 1.8 signed 2010
Calais Campbell - ARI - 5 year 55 with 31 guaranteed signed 2012
Darnell Dockett - ARI - 6 year 56 with 30 guaranteed signed 2010
Justin Smith - SF - 6 year 45 with 20 guaranteed signed 2008
Ray McDonald - SF - 5 year 20 with 7 guaranteed signed 2011
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
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j/c
Here's a list of 3-4 DEs and their contracts that I could find (via Rotoworld)
Quinton Coples - NYJ - 4 year 8.8 with 4.8 SB signed 2012
Muhammad Wilkerson - NYJ - 4 year 6.87 with 3.5 SB signed 2011
Haloti Ngata - BAL - 5 year 61 with 37.1 guaranteed signed 2011
Pernell McPhee - BAL - 4 year 2.2 signed 2011
Ziggy Hood - PIT - 5 year 8.7 million with 6.1 guaranteed signed in 2009
Brett Keisel - PIT - 5 year 18.885 with 5 mil SB signed in 2009
J.J. Watt - HOU - 4 year 11.23 with 6.67 SB signed in 2011
Antonio Smith - HOU - 5 year 35.5 with 12.5 SB signed in 2009
Cory Redding - IND - 3 year 10.5 with 2.675 bonus money signed 2012
Fili Moala - IND - 4 year 3.01 with 1.3 SB signed in 2008
Tyson Jackson - KC - 2 year 21.75 with 6.5 SB signed 2012
Ropati Pitoitua - KC - 1 year 1.15 signed 2012
Corey Liuget - SD - 4 year 8.316 with 4.6 SB signed 2011
Vaughn Martin - SD - 4 year 2.24 signed 2008
Marcus Spears - DAL - 5 year 19.2 with 4.2 SB signed 2011
Jason Hatcher - DAL - 3 year 6 with 2.5 SB signed 2011
Stephen Bowen - WAS - 5 year 27.5 with 12.5 guaranteed signed 2011
Jarvis Jenkins - WAS - 4 year 4.8 with 2 SB signed 2011
Ryan Pickett - GB - 4 year 25 with 10 guaranteed signed 2010
C.J. Wilson - GB - 4 year 1.8 signed 2010
Calais Campbell - ARI - 5 year 55 with 31 guaranteed signed 2012
Darnell Dockett - ARI - 6 year 56 with 30 guaranteed signed 2010
Justin Smith - SF - 6 year 45 with 20 guaranteed signed 2008
Ray McDonald - SF - 5 year 20 with 7 guaranteed signed 2011
Nothing close to 90 to 100 million and I thought Ngata was a NT...
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/31/13 10:11 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Important Distinction...
3-4 DEs in their rookie contracts:
Quinton Coples - NYJ - 4 year 8.8 with 4.8 SB signed 2012
Muhammad Wilkerson - NYJ - 4 year 6.87 with 3.5 SB signed 2011
Pernell McPhee - BAL - 4 year 2.2 signed 2011
Ziggy Hood - PIT - 5 year 8.7 million with 6.1 guaranteed signed in 2009
J.J. Watt - HOU - 4 year 11.23 with 6.67 SB signed in 2011
Fili Moala - IND - 4 year 3.01 with 1.3 SB signed in 2008 (drafted in 2009, can't be right)
Corey Liuget - SD - 4 year 8.316 with 4.6 SB signed 2011
Vaughn Martin - SD - 4 year 2.24 signed 2008 (drafted in 2009, can't be right)
Jarvis Jenkins - WAS - 4 year 4.8 with 2 SB signed 2011
C.J. Wilson - GB - 4 year 1.8 signed 2010
3-4 DEs not in their rookie deals:
Haloti Ngata - BAL - 5 year 61 with 37.1 guaranteed signed 2011
Brett Keisel - PIT - 5 year 18.885 with 5 mil SB signed in 2009
Antonio Smith - HOU - 5 year 35.5 with 12.5 SB signed in 2009
Cory Redding - IND - 3 year 10.5 with 2.675 bonus money signed 2012
Tyson Jackson - KC - 2 year 21.75 with 6.5 SB signed 2012
Ropati Pitoitua - KC - 1 year 1.15 signed 2012
Marcus Spears - DAL - 5 year 19.2 with 4.2 SB signed 2011
Jason Hatcher - DAL - 3 year 6 with 2.5 SB signed 2011
Stephen Bowen - WAS - 5 year 27.5 with 12.5 guaranteed signed 2011
Ryan Pickett - GB - 4 year 25 with 10 guaranteed signed 2010
Calais Campbell - ARI - 5 year 55 with 31 guaranteed signed 2012
Darnell Dockett - ARI - 6 year 56 with 30 guaranteed signed 2010
Justin Smith - SF - 6 year 45 with 20 guaranteed signed 2008
Ray McDonald - SF - 5 year 20 with 7 guaranteed signed 2011
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Funny how Roto spit out a whole lot of rookie contracts on that list. LOL
Wait until both Coples and Watt hit the FA market. They'll cost a ton.
If you want a top notch 3-4 DE, you can either draft one high, or take a nice cap hit in the FA market.
I listed some of the better 3-4 D's .... San Fran, Ravens and Zona. I can't help it someone decided to sell the farm for Mario Williams. Like has already been posted, someone paid him franchise QB money and that's just stupid.
Hey, we may luck out and one of our current players may fill that spot. Like I've said all along, it's a crap shoot at this juncture and none of us really know.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Nothing close to 90 to 100 million and I thought Ngata was a NT...
Ngata plays DE b/c he's a big man that can run 
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Nothing close to 90 to 100 million and I thought Ngata was a NT...
Ngata plays DE b/c he's a big man that can run
If you have little guys that can hit, you've really got something then. 
yebat' Putin
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Can someone crunch the numbers on the 4-3 DE salaries? I'm just too lazy. 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Can someone crunch the numbers on the 4-3 DE salaries?
I'm just too lazy.
Sure, it's four hundred million, five thousand get off your lazy butt. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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By going to a 3-4 i think the need for RDE is eliminated. Like most of you I'm hoping to get an OLB in the draft and another FA at the spot. I still think if we get Millner, keep brown and move him to FS our DBackfield will be one of the top in the league.
I think someone has Tank Carder listed as a MLB? But didnt they move him around and he played the tweener position as well in college? I think we have a very good young lb core... JMJ, Carder, Fort, Robinson. So i dont see the need to load up on LB's. We just need to find someone to fill that Tweener role.
Our DLine is solid and we have depth. If Sheard can make the transition theres no need for spending a high pick here as well. I'm very excited about our defense for next year.
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The Browna need a WOLB ..and I really want Moore in the draft although he isn't the only one..
Now the first thing is to see what they do in FA.
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Tank Carder played LB in a funky 4-2/5-2ish defense at TCU
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Tank Carder played LB in a funky 4-2/5-2ish defense at TCU
I just remember him lining up in 3 point at times and rushing from MLB spot as well.
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He said he liked the unit as is..well I can say I don't like everyone in that unit..and every one of our DE's CANNOT play the OLB spot.
Just because he said he likes the unit overall and doesn't see the need for a rebuild doesn't mean he isn't looking at positions to upgrade... I think all he is saying is that even with the change he expects to take a step forward instead of a big step back... at least that's what the optimist in me hopes he means. 
yebat' Putin
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+1
And you have to keep in mind they gonna play the pc game on their comments and personnel this time of year.
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[He said he liked the unit as is..well I can say I don't like everyone in that unit..and every one of our DE's CANNOT play the OLB spot.
Attack,
Do you mean you think that none of our DEs can play OLB?
Or...
That not every DE on the team will be able to effectively play OLB?
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+1
And you have to keep in mind they gonna play the pc game on their comments and personnel this time of year.
Exactly. In January you don't start calling guys out as ones that need replaced... well, fans do, coaches shouldn't.
Coaches wait until the replacement has been signed or drafted and then talk about how that is an upgrade...
yebat' Putin
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finally go to watch Horton's presser today.
Man, I really like that guy. Hope he can get our D going. I think he can.
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Watching the interview with Donovan... I think he's said at least 5 times "Aggressive... down-hill.... attacking" to describe his defense.
<><
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Watt (unless god-forbid he get hurt) will make a ton on his next contract... I don't see Houston letting him go either so I'd guess McNair re-works his deal early.... he did that with Johnson and Foster I believe.
<><
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Quote:
Can someone crunch the numbers on the 4-3 DE salaries?
I'm just too lazy.
Ok, I'll do this one too.
BTW, my bad on the 2008 that was supposed to be 2009. Terrible math on my part. I'll try and note the rookie contracts on this list
Chandler Jones - NE - 4 years 8.2 with 4.4 SB signed 2012 - Rookie deal
Rob Ninkovich - NE - 2 years 4 with 2 SB signed 2011
Cameron Wake - MIA - 5 years 34.5 with 7 SB signed 2012
Jared Odrick - MIA - 5 years 13 with 7.1 guaranteed signed 2010 - rookie deal
Mark Anderson - BUF - 4 year 19.5 with 6 SB signed 2012
Mario Williams - BUF - 6 year 96 with 19 SB signed 2012
Frostee Rucker - CLE - 5 year 20.5 with 5 SB signed 2012
Jabaal Sheard - CLE - 4 year 5 with 2.2 SB signed 2011 - rookie deal
Michael Johnson - CIN - 4 year 2.6 signed 2009 - rookie deal
Carlos Dunlap - CIN - 4 year 3.7 with 1.2 SB signed 2010 - rookie deal
Jason Babin - JAC - 5 year 27.7 with 5.5 guaranteed signed 2011
Jeremy Mincey - JAC - 4 year 20 with 8 SB signed 2012
Kamerion Wimbley - TEN - 5 year 35 with 9 SB signed 2012
Derrick Morgan - TEN - 5 year 15 with 11 guaranteed signed 2010 - rookie deal
Lamar Houston - OAK - 4 year 4.3 with 2.5 guaranteed signed 2010 - rookie deal
Matt Shaughnessy - OAK - 4 year 2.6 signed 2009 - rookie deal
Elvis Dumervil - DEN - 6 year 61.5 with 3 SB signed 2010
Derek Wolfe - DEN - 4 year 6.25 with 2.27 SB signed 2012 - rookie deal
Jason Pierre-Paul - NYG - 5 year 20 with 11.6 guaranteed signed 2010 - rookie deal
Justin Tuck - NYG - 5 year 30 with 9 SB signed 2008
Trent Cole - PHI - 6 year 59.3 with 8 SB signed 2012
Brandon Graham - PHI - 5 yar 21.9 with 14 guaranteed signed 2010 - rookie deal
Jared Allen - MIN - 6 year 73.3 with 15.5 SB signed 2008
Brian Robison - MIN - 3 year 14.1 with 6.5 SB signed 2011
Kyle Vanden Bosch - DET - 4 year 26 with 4 SB signed 2010
Cliff Avril - DET - 1 year 10.6 franchise tag signed 2012
Julius Peppers - CHI - 6 year 84 with 6.5 SB signed 2010
Corey Wooten - CHI - 4 year 2.4 with 500k SB signed 2010 - rookie deal
Kroy Biermann - ATL - 3 year 9.1 with 3.1 SB signed 2012
John Abraham - ATL - 3 year 16.7 with 2.25 SB signed 2012
Charles Johnson - CAR - 6 year 76 with 30 SB signed 2011
Frank Alexander - CAR - 4 year 2.57 with 470k SB signed 2012 - rookie deal
Will Smith - NO - 6 year 61.4 with 12 SB signed 2008
Cameron Jordan - NO - 4 year 7.7 with 4.1 SB signed 2011 - rookie deal
Michael Bennett - TB - 1 year 2.7 signed 2012
Daniel Te'o-Nesheim - TB 1 year 415k signed 2012
Chris Long - STL- 5 year 60.3 with 6.5 SB signed 2012
Robert Quinn - STL - 5 year 9.4 with 5.3 SB signed 2011 - rookie deal
Bruce Irvin - SEA - 4 year 9.3 with 5.2 SB signed 2012 - rookie deal
Red Bryant - SEA - 5 year 35 with 5 SB signed 2012
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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Everything is a hybrid. Sigh.
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