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The Chargers had maybe the worst OL in the NFL last year. Worse than Dallas and Philly and maybe worse than Arizona. I don't want any players from that unit, though PFF has Vasquez graded very highly. Gaither is a good player but he's always hurt. I could see us signing Ronnie Brown. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agents-san-diego-chargers/
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OH GOD! THE KEY TO OUR TEAM, OUR CITY AND OUR LIVES HAS BEEN RELEASED! WITHOUT FROSTEE I AM NOTHING!!!
[/typical Browns fan reaction]
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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We need to get Hadnot, I heard he's a monster. 
yebat' Putin
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j/c heres a list of charger free agents in case Norv wants some of his guys...guards stand out and a free safety.
chargers free agents
we need OG - check (Louis Vasquez)
we need a RB3 - check (Ronnie Brown)
we need OLB - check (Philips)
we need CB2 - check (Jammer)
Not sure how much pull Norv will have on the defensive guys, but I would gladly have the Browns sign all 4 above.
#gmstrong
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surprised Philips is that far down on that list.
Vasquez and Ronnie Brown are right where I would expect.
not too surprised to see Jammer where he is as he was up and down all year. He's basically Sheldon Brown (who had a good year but struggled in '11).
#gmstrong
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j/c heres a list of charger free agents in case Norv wants some of his guys...guards stand out and a free safety.
chargers free agents
we need OG - check (Louis Vasquez)
we need a RB3 - check (Ronnie Brown)
we need OLB - check (Philips)
we need CB2 - check (Jammer)
Not sure how much pull Norv will have on the defensive guys, but I would gladly have the Browns sign all 4 above.
I'm on board with this!
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Rooting for this team is debilitating for the soul.
This says it all.
I have no problem with releasing Rucker. Or almost anyone else they deem as not fitting in with what they want to do.
But come November if we're 3-9 I don't want to hear any excuses. I'm way past the point of being charitable with this team/FO. They lost that when they signed Lombardi.
The time to start winning is 2013.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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LOL It's one guy that's expensive and doesn't fit the new thinking. what's the big deal.
True, but you know darn well that if we had kept him, some of the same people complaining about his release would be whining about the wasted money of keeping him on the roster! 
I know.. sad isn't it.
There will be more gone. Mostly I think we know the sure things, Fujita, maybe Gocong, some of the free agents like Cribbs. Love him, but he's a one trick pony nowadays. I'd hate to think that Dawson could be gone. He showed no signs at all of his age last year. I don't know if there is much better out there available.
I think the rest of the Dline (except Parker) stay and they add to it, the Oline will remain intact.
I can see them adding another TE some how. And no doubt, we need another corner and Safety and of course, more linebackers.
But anyway, they'll be a few that will surprise.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Mourg, I have never thought Rucker was this really solid player, and the All-22 stuff I paid for confirmed it. He was decent but almost became a one-down player.
Which is pretty much exactly what he was brought in to do. So rather than say he did a fine job of doing the job they intended him to do, you keep droning on about him. He was signed to be a rotational player, and he did so.
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I would have liked to have seen what Heckert would have done had he been allowed to spend money in free agency. When your biggest signing is freakin' Frostee Rucker, well, it's no wonder we stunk.
Hate to break it to you, but firstly you have no evidence that Heckert wanted to do anything other than build through the draft and sign only situational players. Somehow you feel you can make aloof assertions while others can't. Horse hockey.
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With Rucker the Bengals ranked 10th against the run in 2011. Without him they ranked 12th. Meh. I mean there are very few stats that point to Rucker being part of the answer. That's a very mediocre player for $20 million bucks.
They're a dime a dozen.
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Can't wait to start filling in the parts for the 3-4.
And how many parts will that be? That's right..... We have no idea, do we? And once again, so far we've seen no evidence that this FO will go out and sign high dollar, top tier FA's either.
Projections on how this will play out go both ways. And so far, neither side has any evidence they have any more clues as to how it will play out than the other side.
Though they sure try to act like they do!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Which is pretty much exactly what he was brought in to do. So rather than say he did a fine job of doing the job they intended him to do, you keep droning on about him. He was signed to be a rotational player, and he did so.
That's because it's hard to say he did a "fine job." Several posters and other talking heads have noted that Juqua Parker actually outplayed Rucker. I've made it clear that Rucker lost snaps to Parker and Winn. The ultimate point is to counter the Chicken-Little's who wanna take this as a sign of the apocalypse. That's why I drone on about it.
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Hate to break it to you, but firstly you have no evidence that Heckert wanted to do anything other than build through the draft and sign only situational players. Somehow you feel you can make aloof assertions while others can't. Horse hockey.
Nope, all I have is circumstantial evidence, and the Grand Poobah's words. Holmgren said he was going to try and build through the draft and not spend on free agents.
Now that we're getting further away from Mr. Bankers Hours, we all know Heckert wasn't running anything. It was all Holmgren, and thus I don't believe Heckert had much say in how he was allowed to put the team together. Afterall, we know that Heckert didn't want to take Weeden at 22. That was forced on him by Holmgren.
Taking it a step further, if I'm Randy Lerner and I'm secretly making plans to sell the entire enchilada, the very LAST thing I want are a bunch of salaries and payroll on the books.
It's very hard to imagine a smart guy like Heckert knowingly putting crap on the field but expecting them to produce. This thing had Holmgren and Lerner all over it.
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They're a dime a dozen.
We paid $5 million in bonus money plus a salary to a "dime a dozen" player. We got one mediocre year out of him and now he's gone. Not a great move.
I'm willing to bet that Rucker isn't going to get what we gave him on the open market.
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Can't wait to start filling in the parts for the 3-4.
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And how many parts will that be? That's right..... We have no idea, do we? And once again, so far we've seen no evidence that this FO will go out and sign high dollar, top tier FA's either.
Maybe you forget there's a draft.  And maybe you've assumed I'm only talking about 2013. I'm not.
I'm looking forward to seeing the parts of the 3-4 put together. I've always appreciated the defense for it's flexibility. We're hardly any further away from a 3-4 than a 4-3, so now is as good a time to switch as any.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I got this memo,as a matter of fact,I also got the one before this,and the one before that and the one before that and...you get the picture.
As every new regime has taken over,you all tell us "it's not a rebuild" no one is listening anymore.
This roster is going to get churned,burned,blown up and rebuilt.
Talent according to Lombardi.I'm going to be sick.
Hell,3 years from now and the king trucker will be throwing these bums out on thier collective asses,then get duped by another group.
Cue the chorus "it wouldn't be a rebuild"
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Maybe you forget there's a draft. And maybe you've assumed I'm only talking about 2013. I'm not.
I'm looking forward to seeing the parts of the 3-4 put together. I've always appreciated the defense for it's flexibility. We're hardly any further away from a 3-4 than a 4-3, so now is as good a time to switch as any.
Thank you so much!
Anything that will require several parts and more than one year to build by that very definition alone is a re-build.
So many hate to use the very word that describes what is going on here on the D side of the ball.
But you described it perfectly!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Maybe you forget there's a draft. And maybe you've assumed I'm only talking about 2013. I'm not.
I'm looking forward to seeing the parts of the 3-4 put together. I've always appreciated the defense for it's flexibility. We're hardly any further away from a 3-4 than a 4-3, so now is as good a time to switch as any.
Thank you so much!
Anything that will require several parts and more than one year to build by that very definition alone is a re-build.
So many hate to use the very word that describes what is going on here on the D side of the ball.
But you described it perfectly!
What's with the whole pretending-to-be-obtuse thing? I don't really get it. It serves no purpose and it comes off as foolish and borderline petulant.
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What's with the whole pretending-to-be-obtuse thing? I don't really get it. It serves no purpose and it comes off as foolish and borderline petulant.
When someone claims something isn't a re-build, then describes the re-build process as what we will be doing, I feel it's worth noting.
Simple as that. You can call it any PC label you wish.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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so far we've seen no evidence that this FO will go out and sign high dollar, top tier FA's either.
I'm pretty sure they are on record as saying they are probably NOT going to do that.
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And how many parts will that be? That's right..... We have no idea, do we?
Nope, we also have no idea how many parts needed to be changed to make the 4-3 we ran last year, as the 23rd ranked defense in the league, any good either.
People generally seem to believe that this defense was on the verge of greatness... based on what?
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Projections on how this will play out go both ways. And so far, neither side has any evidence they have any more clues as to how it will play out than the other side.
Agreed but there is as 3rd set of projections.. how it all would have played out if nothing had changed. People make a very big assumption that we would have added pieces and been a top half of the league defense next year... and they base future comparisons on that assumption of whether we are better off or worse off... One has to understand that the baseline by which their projections are being judged... is also a projection and not a fact.
Simple fact is, if we are better than 23rd next year, then we got better...
yebat' Putin
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Maybe you forget there's a draft. And maybe you've assumed I'm only talking about 2013. I'm not.
I'm looking forward to seeing the parts of the 3-4 put together. I've always appreciated the defense for it's flexibility. We're hardly any further away from a 3-4 than a 4-3, so now is as good a time to switch as any.
Thank you so much!
Anything that will require several parts and more than one year to build by that very definition alone is a re-build.
So many hate to use the very word that describes what is going on here on the D side of the ball.
But you described it perfectly!
Then by that definition, we'd somehow still be in a "rebuild" with the 4-3, since it's my opinion that we're essentially no further away in either case.
I dunno where you're getting that supposed-logic from, but I'd ask for a refund. 
In the 4-3, we were going to need someone at DE and possibly 2 OLB's.
In the 3-4, we don't need any DL's, but probably need 2 LB's.
This isn't a rebuild, no matter how loud the Chicken-Little crowd wants to get.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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It's a rebuild when the players who were effective in a 4-3 are no longer effective in the 3-4. Then we have to replace those players too. To think we're as far away from a good 4-3 defense as we are a good 3-4 defense is well...indefensible. btw....I will pre-empt your upcoming waffling with a waffle of my own. 
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That's funny.
I would question how having the 23rd ranked defense is any indication that the players were "effective." Furthermore, I would question how one can be sure those players are going to be "ineffective" and need to be "replaced" without ever seeing them take a defensive snap in a defensive scheme which by all indications is going to be anything-but a pure, old-school 3-4 defense.
Those are several leaps made in one short post.
Waffle-on
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well let me start with our 34DEs. The Browns have already let it slip that Taylor is going to be the starting NT and he's going to be shading the Center. That leaves Rubin as a DE or a backup. Winn is light in the rump and should be a rotational one gap 43DT. He's going to wear down. Who else do we have here? Hughes plays with effort but he's not going to push this group forward at all. How about DQ who was getting blasted in the old school 34 where you have DL purposely tying up interior lineman? He's probably loving life. NOT! Then we have Sheard who I can't wait to see chasing TEs out in space. Woohoo! Anyone who thinks this is going to work Year 1 is delusional. If I had to guess this is an ownership driven change because Jimmy feels comfortable in the 34 due to his time with the Steelers. No one can tell me with a straight face that this is the best use of the current roster talent.
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Simple fact is, if we are better than 23rd next year, then we got better...
That's more "simple" than "fact"...
Our D was top 10 material, even top 5 vs the pass, when Haden,Taylor and Ward were on the field together. It also simply neglects that we started out the season with 4 starters missing on D, pretty important ones at that. How many teams can keep up with that number even before game 1?
Also, this "simple" overall stat doesn't account for TOP and the scarcity of our sub par Offense. Our yds/play AVG was league AVG...anything beyond that is not in their power.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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But.. but.. but... stats!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Maybe you forget there's a draft. And maybe you've assumed I'm only talking about 2013. I'm not.
I'm looking forward to seeing the parts of the 3-4 put together. I've always appreciated the defense for it's flexibility. We're hardly any further away from a 3-4 than a 4-3, so now is as good a time to switch as any.
Thank you so much!
Anything that will require several parts and more than one year to build by that very definition alone is a re-build.
So many hate to use the very word that describes what is going on here on the D side of the ball.
But you described it perfectly!
Not to be an arse about it, But what in the hell is so wrong with a rebuild?
I mean, it's not like we are disassembling a 13 win team is it. By definition, we are losers as we sit.
SO tell me, what's the big freaking deal with the term Rebuild.
The only thing to concern yourself with is how quickly they can accomplish this.
It doesn't have to take 5 years. We've seen other organizations take a 5 win team one year and by year two, get to the playoffs..
If you think these guys are going to turn this around by snapping their collecting fingers, then you are living in lala land
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No one can tell me with a straight face that this is the best use of the current roster talent.
You are correct, sir.
Unfortunately, as with almost everything else about this team we have absolutely no say in the matter.
I'm not "in love" with Weeden. But to do anything but give him at least one more year as QB, especially under Chud's tutelage, would be plain asinine. Yet most of the indications from our FO seem to indicate they can't wait to find someone else.
The Defense last year, while not near the top of league stats, was obviously better than any previous incarnation to anyone who's watched this team for more than 10 minutes in the last decade. Yet we're about to embark on a fundamental change that will (probably) force us to get rid of several players that seem to be ready to enter their prime(s).
Change can be good when there is an obvious reason for it. I guess I'm just one of those guys that isn't seeing that obvious reason.
All I can do is hope that the boys in the FO are right. Because if they're not we're gonna suck for at least another 5 years.
All I want is to see a winner before my knees stop working. And to not have to explain to my grandkids why I'm a Browns fan......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Not to be an arse about it, But what in the hell is so wrong with a rebuild?
Ass
D, it's all about two sides of the fence.
One side believes that a switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 means dismantling the defense and starting anew. The other side says that a switch to the 3-4 doesn't mean dismantling the team at all.
It's a small piece to a bigger debate. The former vilifies the new regime, the latter doesn't.
Let Pit and I have our fun. God knows we don't get enough of it watching the team win 4 games every year. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Not to be an arse about it, But what in the hell is so wrong with a rebuild?
Ass 
D, it's all about two sides of the fence.
One side believes that a switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 means dismantling the defense and starting anew. The other side says that a switch to the 3-4 doesn't mean dismantling the team at all.
It's a small piece to a bigger debate. The former vilifies the new regime, the latter doesn't.
Let Pit and I have our fun. God knows we don't get enough of it watching the team win 4 games every year.
Hmm, didn't know we were allowed to use the word Ass on here. I thought it always got deleted.. LOL
I understand the debate Toad, just not sure people need to get their panties in a bunch over it.
We're gonna see a lot of player changes on D. Probably see a few on O as well.
But here's the thing, if we stayed 4-3, we'd still need another Safety, another LB or two, another Starting quality CB
Our D line is Chalk full of talented guys that can do lots of things that some on here won't give them credit for. they just say, hey,, Hughes can't do this and Rubin can't do that and Taylor should be traded and Sheard will now be considered a wasted pick.
I know it's not an easy transition, but taking Horton at face value (for the moment anyway) his plan overall seems sound. Use the talent you have to match up to the offense you are playing.
I mean, it almost doesn't even sound much like he's committed to any particular scheme, only one that will be fluid based on many factors such as the talent available on the Browns and what the offense does that he wants to take away from them.
I think it's safe to assume that there will be some shuffling of players until they get what they want on D and maybe then, we'll see a more traditional 3-4. Dunno
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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D, it's all about two sides of the fence.
One side believes that a switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 means dismantling the defense and starting anew. The other side says that a switch to the 3-4 doesn't mean dismantling the team at all.
It's a small piece to a bigger debate. The former vilifies the new regime, the latter doesn't.
Your last sentence is conjecture with no basis in fact. It isn't a question of vilifying anyone. It's a question of where we are now in terms of need, verses where we were before the switch to the 3-4. No more, no less.
Dj pointed it out perfectly. When people like Phil Taylor and Haden are out of then line up, there is a drastic difference in the play of our D. That's not reflective of the starting line up and talent we had in the 4-3, but reflective of the lack of depth.
We are a very young team with young starters for the most part. We aren't deep on either side of the ball. In a perfect world, everyone needs two great CB's and a great S. But how many teams actually have, and can afford to keep that from a salary cap standpoint?
Once again, we are yet to see how many of our players will transfer well to the 3-4. But even Freeny couldn't do it well with the Colts. So yes, looking at simply the starting line up, I think we're even further away than we were last year and when it comes to depth I think it will need a total re-tool as well.
If Dwight Freeny couldn't even adjust to the 3-4, I find all of this speculation of how easily so many of our players ability to do so to be more than slightly suspect.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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When people like Phil Taylor and Haden are out of then line up, there is a drastic difference in the play of our D. That's not reflective of the starting line up and talent we had in the 4-3, but reflective of the lack of depth.
That is not true. If Troy P gets hurt and the Steelers defense continues to do well, it's absolutely NOT because Troy P's backup is even close to as good as Troy P is.. it's because the other 10 starters are good enough to cover for it and because the coaches are good enough to tweak the scheme to protect the replacement....
yebat' Putin
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If we stayed with the 4-3 what would we need? Most would say we would need another defensive end, a cornerback, a linebacker, and a safety. Now in the 3-4 we need an outside linebacker, an inside linebacker, a cornerback, and a safety. Not that big of a difference.
Also, Freeney played his entire 10 year career with his hand in the ground. Then in his age 32 season he was moved to outside linebacker. He had 5 sacks in 14 games. I would say that he wasn't a complete failure and that given more time (if he doesn't become washed up first) he could become pretty good at outside linebacker.
Sheard is a young player, who some thought should be drafted by a 3-4 team coming out of college, who played a good portion of snaps in 2012 standing up. While the transition may not be easy, it will be doable. Also, there will also be times when Sheard does have his hand in the ground.
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That is not true. If Troy P gets hurt and the Steelers defense continues to do well, it's absolutely NOT because Troy P's backup is even close to as good as Troy P is.. it's because the other 10 starters are good enough to cover for it and because the coaches are good enough to tweak the scheme to protect the replacement....
So are you saying that overall, the Steelers don't have far better depth at many of their key D positions than the Browns do?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If we stayed with the 4-3 what would we need? Most would say we would need another defensive end, a cornerback, a linebacker, and a safety. Now in the 3-4 we need an outside linebacker, an inside linebacker, a cornerback, and a safety. Not that big of a difference.
I guess the question would be quite a variable. Do you want to know what I feel we would need in the 4-3 to be an elite D or an above average D? Big difference there.
I believe we could have gotten away with one good rushing DE to put opposite Sheard and a CB. I do believe that alone would have put us in the top half on NFL D's.
I think far more will be necessary in order to do the same with the 3-4. We have young LBer's who were coming around in the 4-3 that I think may have been able to keep progressing in the 4-3. We've already witnessed how much better DQ is in the 4-3 than he is in the 3-4.
Now with Sheard, not only are you talking about his stance, but you are talking about him playing LBer rather than DE. That's not quite as basic as you wish to make it sound.
I would love to see the prognostication of you optimists come to fruition. That would be the best case scenario for us all. But simply claiming we can wave some magic wand and transform our DL to a point that a new scheme and switching Sheard to the LBer position is more of a given than hope is a pipe dream IMO
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Sheard is a young player, who some thought should be drafted by a 3-4 team coming out of college, who played a good portion of snaps in 2012 standing up. While the transition may not be easy, it will be doable.
That sounds great but you have no way of knowing if that's "doable" or not.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't disagree that we might step back on D if current players have a hard time with the adjustment. No way around that.
In the end the new coach wants that type of D.
In the end I don't think it will be a long process. I think anything we lose this year by making the switch will be off-set by the type of D we will play under Horton. It will more or less wash when comparing to last years D and it's results.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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That has really been my point all along. Some have seemed to indicate this will be seamless to a great extent.
They seem to indicate we were no closer to having the right personnel in the 4-3 than the 3-4. I find that view to be overly optimistic.
In the end, two or three years from now, we may be better off. The end result may be better than it would have been.
I would have preferred we stay in the 4-3 because it seems we were closer in personnel. I think we could have improved quicker with the right investments.
But it is what it is. I have just found some who wish to indicate this transition won't be that much of a transition, because it will be IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Agreed with this, Ballpeen. Do we have athletes can play in this D? We do. Some will adjust quicker, others less well. I do DO NOT think it will be seamless. And we have FA and a draft to address what we lack. I do not think we have nearly the issues some seem to think. If the "new scheme" tackles and pressures and get its collective butt off the field so the "new scheme" offense can score TDs, we will win more games. Certainly should be able to play multiple fronts in the Bigs, and play them well enough off either base. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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They seem to indicate we were no closer to having the right personnel in the 4-3 than the 3-4. I find that view to be overly optimistic.
Just as people like DC and myself feel it to be overly optimistic to believe we're very close to being a good 4-3 defense.
This very same cast of characters vaulted us all the way up to the 23rd ranked defense in the NFL. Lofty heights indeed. 
My belief...again...since you've either intentionally or unintentionally twisted it...is that the personnel on what has been a failed 4-3 unit aren't necessarily going to be shown the door because they don't fit the 3-4. We needed an infusion of talent as a 4-3 unit, and need virtually the same infusion of talent as a 3-4.
Young players like Sheard, Taylor, Winn, etc all had professional scouts suggesting they are good fits for 3-4 teams, and when one really starts to look at the weaknesses of many of these players, it can be argued that they may be better fits in a 3-4. IMHO Taylor fits better as a 3-4 guy than in the 4-3.
When a team lacks overall talent, there is no taking three steps backward before going forward. The few talented players we do have on this defensive unit all have evidence supporting their roles in a 3-4 with the exception of Jackson. Even then, if one chooses to believe the coaches who all say they aren't going to run a traditional old-school 3-4 but will run a flexed system, that buoys what can happen for Jackson.
Man fears change and quite often irrationally. It all comes down to one single point:
Either this regime can pick the right players or they can't.
That fact wouldn't be any different in a 4-3 than a 3-4.
In a 4-3 we would need more help at Defensive End, Linebacker, Corner, and Safety.
In a 3-4 we would need less help at Defensive End, more help at Linebacker, then help at Corner, and Safety.
The only real benefit of having the group of Lerner, Holmgren, and Heckert not spending money over the last two seasons is that we'll have something like $50 million in cap space and the 6th pick in the entire draft.
4-3 or 3-4. It'll come down to whether the FO picks the right guys. There isn't some great teardown here.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Once again, we had major problems with the injury to Taylor and the 4 game suspension of Haden.
The problem created there was a lack of any quality depth. When they were in the line up, our D played much better than their "23'rd ranking" you seem to be so fixated upon.
As I said before, with one more upgrade at CB and one DE, we would be in the top half of the NFL on D.
And sure, some of the "tweener" picks that were made, some "suggested" would work in the 3-4 scheme, but as we all know, many times even though it's suggested it would work, it doesn't pan out that way.
So you seem to be leaning towards while "some suggested" these tweener picks will work in the 3-4, now suddenly they will work in the 3-4. You seem to suggest that we would have needed four or five players no matter which scheme we ran, while I do not believe that's even close to the case in the 4-3.
So you want to twist it into some deep seated fear I have while I say you are being far too overly optimistic. Any time someone starts "assuming" that such a drastic change can be made so smoothly, it usually turns out they are only fooling themselves.
This team lacks depth on our D no matter which D we run. And with both Taylor and Haden in the line up, the useless stat you rely on which ranks us 23rd means nothing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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As I said before, with one more upgrade at CB and one DE, we would be in the top half of the NFL on D.
Here's a quote...from you...regarding peoples beliefs about the transition. If they apply to them, they apply to you: Quote:
Your last sentence is conjecture with no basis in fact.
As you'd say...it sounds nice but you have no proof.
However, my "proof" revolves around the myriad of scouting reports which indicated the very-young players in question are good fits for the 3-4. That's as close to evidence as we're going to get.
This has become a twice-beaten dead horse. I'm not going to...again...list the scouting reports for Sheard and Taylor showing they are fits for the 3-4 unless people really clamor for them, or if I'm backed into a corner and forced to break the glass
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And with both Taylor and Haden in the line up, the useless stat you rely on which ranks us 23rd means nothing.
Then with both Taylor and Haden in the lineup this year, the D won't be nearly as far from good in the 3-4 as you'd propose.
Fascinating how that works itself out.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Nice twist on things, but really, that's all it is. One thing I'll give you is that neither of us have proof as to whether guys like Sheard, MJM and others will work in the 3-4. Can I say they won't? No I can't. No more than you can say they will. But that's not my position. My position is saying they can takes a leap of faith. And believe it or not, I've read plenty of scouting reports on all of our draft picks as well. And yes, some say they feel they might, could or possibly fit well in the 3-4, did you notice how 3-4 teams didn't draft them before we did? Is it possible that "some" of these players will transition well? Yes it is. Is it far more like flipping a coin than a sure thing? Yes it is. And will our 3-4 look better with Haden and Taylor healthy and in the line up? Yes it will. But I wasn't the one resting their laurels on how badly our D ranked last year when they weren't in the line up now was I? I'll stick with what I said to begin with. We were two players away from being to top 15 D in the 4-3. A CB upgrade and a DE upgrade. Of course depth would have needed to be added. I don't think we are only two players away from being a top 15 D in the 3-4. And in the depth category, we are even further away. And one point I noticed you seemed to avoid.... How often do scouting reports "indicate a player may transition well in the 3-4" and that simply doesn't pan out to be the case? You and I both know that happens quite often. So if that's what you wish to hang your hat on, don't be surprised of your hat hits the floor. In the end, with Horton running the D, within a few years, I think we will be better off in a 3-4 with him running the show. I also like an attacking 3-4 much better than the 4-3 system we had. The only thing we really disagree upon here is how far away we are from having a good 3-4, verses where we were with the 4-3. You're depending on some scouting reports that certainly do not state these players are a perfect fit for the 3-4, but rather it's believed they would transition to the 3-4. Transitions in this case are just as wrong as often as they are right and we both know that. At this juncture, I feel we have both made our positions well known. So at this point there's not much left to do other than see how the whole thing plays itself out. And in this case, I would much rather you be right. That would be in the best interest of us all. However, seeing is believing and I think we'll see a very big roster overhaul before we see a top 15 D in the new 3-4 scheme. Once again, I will be very pleasantly surprised if I'm the one who is wrong.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
The only thing we really disagree upon here is how far away we are from having a good 3-4, verses where we were with the 4-3. You're depending on some scouting reports that certainly do not state these players are a perfect fit for the 3-4, but rather it's believed they would transition to the 3-4.
We do disagree on how far away we are in either defense, but as noted there are scouting reports which say Taylor is a 3-4 player. Here's just one. There are more:
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web page
"Final word: Taylor is flying up my draft board. The more I watch the more impressed I am of Taylor's potential. He is the ideal candidate to fill the nose tackle role in a 3-4 defense. However, his quickness and athletic ability makes him versatile and increases his overall value."
When we drafted Taylor I thought we were doing the round-peg/square-hole thing. Now that we're moving to a 3-4, I think he's not only a good fit, but he's a better fit.
I honestly feel that with the cap room we have and a regime that is willing to spend money (yes, my assumption, but just watch. These guys are trying to make some noise. They didn't come in here with some slow build plan in place. They will spend some money) we could have made either the 4-3 or the 3-4 viable by the time the season starts. We're 3-4 players away from having the right personnel to become an at least average defense, if not something better.
It all comes down to whether we've acquired the right players this off-season. If we did, we aren't 3 years away from a good 3-4. If we haven't, we're more than 3 years away.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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