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Kerry Rhodes is NOT a FA 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Would love to add Paul Kruger. Still young, good player, obviously knows AFC North football.
Any of those first 3 receivers listed too, Wallace, Hartline, Amendola, any of those 3 would help out. I'd pass on Ginn and Edelman.
Byrd would fill a big hole at S too.
I'm actually getting pretty excited for the FA period. I do think we will spend a bit, although I don't see any huge splash. I'm really hoping for 2 guys that can fill spots. I hope we don't over do it. I still like this way of drafting guys and letting them learn on the job. FA in the NFL seems to work when less is more.
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Quote:
Travis Benjamin is NOT a slot WR...have you seen him play? He's not close to being tough enough for playing the slot and go over the middle, that's not his game
Benjamin is a no4 speed WR and returner, who runs a handful of routes, mostly just striking deep...he's absolutely limited playing on the outside
That's actually correct, and I don't know why I said "slot" when I was thinking "third."
So referencing that, if he's a speed-guy and we're running a more vertical offense there isn't anything that says Gordon or Little can't be moved to the inside with certain packages.
The funny thing about all the speculation is that if people go back and look at the reception numbers for Turner's "vertical offense" they are going to find 2 receivers with big catch numbers, but Gates and the RB's getting the most of the rest of the meat off the bone.
Too many people are getting caught up in the term "vertical offense" and suddenly think we're going to need 3 or 4 game-breaking receivers.
What we REALLY need for this offense is a TE. We're in good shape at the WR position, especially when one considers that the 1st two receivers get their receptions then the rest are spread out amongst the backs and TE's.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
What we REALLY need for this offense is a TE. We're in good shape at the WR position, especially when one considers that the 1st two receivers get their receptions then the rest are spread out amongst the backs and TE's.
Yeah, we gotta find out what we have in Cameron this year. If we don't get anything out of him this year, at least we will know. Although if we somehow trade back into the late teens, and Eiffert is still there, I would be more than happy taking him.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8936209/michael-vick-signs-one-year-deal-philadelphia-eaglesThe Philadelphia Eagles re-signed Michael Vick on Monday to a one-year deal for the 2013 season, the team announced. This contract replaces the one Vick had signed and he now is scheduled to be a free agent after next season. But this season he will quarterback new coach Chip Kelly's offense. Kelly will address the media at a news conference later Tuesday. He was scheduled to make $15.5 million in base salary in 2013 under the six-year, $100 million extension he signed with the team in 2011. Vick, who turns 33 in June, passed for 2,362 yards, 12 touchdowns and 10 interceptions in 10 games last season, his fourth with the Eagles.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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thought this was pertinent here: Quote:
The 2012 season was proof that money doesn't buy championships in the NFL.
Based on my numbers, the top seven spending teams in 2012 didn't make the playoffs. It's understandable the New Orleans Saints fell short. Head coach Sean Payton, assistant head coach Joe Vitt and general manager Mickey Loomis were suspended because of the bounty scandal.
Thanks to Drew Brees' contract and the addition of three free-agent linebackers, including Curtis Lofton, the Saints led the league with a $167 million payroll. Thrown off by the loss of their front-office leaders, the Saints finished 7-9.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers were next with $158.2 million. They paid wide receiver Vincent Jackson $11.11 million a year, guard Carl Nicks $9.5 million and cornerback Eric Wright $7.6 million. The Bucs weren't thinking championship. They were trying to upgrade a roster the front office neglected after a 10-win season in 2011.
The Bucs improved by three games to 7-9, but Nicks missed nine games because of an injury and Wright was suspended for four and might be cut.
The Buffalo Bills gave defensive end Mario Williams $16 million and grabbed defensive end Mark Anderson for $5.25 million on what turned out to be the third-highest payroll at $143.9 million. The defense was terrible. Coach Chan Gailey lost his job, and the Bills finished 6-10 for the third time in four years.
The Jacksonville Jaguars went 2-14 with the fourth-highest payroll, $142 million. The Detroit Lions restructured deals to get under the cap and finished six games worse than the previous season with a $140 million payroll. The Arizona Cardinals were seventh at $138.2 million and were three games worse than in 2011.
Spending might work in baseball, but it doesn't guarantee anything in football because of the salary cap. Sure, Peyton Manning was cut by the Colts and turned the Denver Broncos into a No. 1 seed with a $19.2 million contract, but surefire Hall of Fame players rarely become available like that. Signing him turned out to be a no-brainer even though John Elway gambled that Manning could recover from four neck operations.
Big contracts coming due for Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan and maybe Aaron Rodgers should put their teams at the top of the 2013 payroll list, particularly with top veteran quarterbacks angling for $20 million a year.
Paying those quarterbacks is good business. Going crazy in free agency, though, doesn't translate into success.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8935867/nfl-mailbag-big-spending-subpar-results
Last edited by no_logo_required; 02/11/13 04:31 PM.
#gmstrong
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Interesting link, that has the cap number of every team listed at the end and this blurb: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21676714/jets-cowboys-among-many-teams-in-sticky-cap-quandariesThe Browns have about $30 million in space and will be big spenders under new owner Jimmy Haslam and team president Joe Banner. Many in the Steelers organization believe Wallace will end up with their division rivals in Cleveland (Haslam was a former minority owner of the Steelers), and the Browns could make a play for a pass rusher like Kruger, too. Should Vick become available, he too could be in play -- this new regime badly wants to upgrade from former first-round pick Brandon Weeden -- otherwise Alex Smith might make sense, among others.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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on one hand we have Quote:
will be big spenders under new owner Jimmy Haslam and team president Joe Banner
on the other we have
Quote:
Jimmy-H "I don’t think you’ll see us making any big, splashy, high-priced moves because I think we’ve said all along, we’re going to build through the draft.”
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...5e-401cbf51eb31
#gmstrong
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Quote:
The Browns have about $30 million in space and will be big spenders under new owner Jimmy Haslam and team president Joe Banner.
We would of regardless, the Cap floor is in place this year..
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Many in the Steelers organization believe Wallace will end up with their division rivals in Cleveland (Haslam was a former minority owner of the Steelers)
Why Wallace? We have Benjamin, and while he hasn't shown the same production, Wallace basically makes Benjamin useless. Look at Desean Jackson after he got paid, and when the offense wasn't clicking at 100 mph, was he worth the money? No thanks on Wallace.
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and the Browns could make a play for a pass rusher like Kruger, too.
I'm ok with Kruger, I just hope he's production doesn't drop off when he's no longer across the defense from a DPOY.
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Should Vick become available, he too could be in play
1 year deal with Philly. Never really thought he'd come here anyways..
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this new regime badly wants to upgrade from former first-round pick Brandon Weeden
That'd be great, if they actually found someone that was an upgrade..
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otherwise Alex Smith might make sense, among others.
No, he doesn't, at all...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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We can take Haslam at his word, or we can apply common sense to get a clearer picture.
I would think anyone in the Browns organization to be a huge fool if they announced they were planning on being big players in free agency. In fact, any word which tips their hand makes them idiots. So far in their short tenure, neither Banner nor Haslam have tipped their hands about anything. That's good news.
Common sense shows that we have a bunch of holes on this team, and with no 2nd round pick and a huge amount of cap space, they are either going to be content going into 2013 accepting that they won't win many more than 5 games, or they are going to start filling holes in free agency and the draft.
Since everything we've seen from the new regime shows they are coming out swinging, I think it's more than reasonable to assume they'll be spenders in free agency, not to be confused with BIG spenders in free agency.
At the very least, you can be sure the biggest name or names coming to Cleveland will be of a higher caliber than a part-timer like Frostee Rucker...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree.
Some people talk about signing free agents like they are talking about a STD.
I want to sign a couple of free agents in a effort to bump up the time frame. It's not like signing a few free agents is going to alter your plan of building through the draft.
Do both!
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Interesting link, that has the cap number of every team listed at the end and this blurb:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21676714/jets-cowboys-among-many-teams-in-sticky-cap-quandaries
The Browns have about $30 million in space and will be big spenders under new owner Jimmy Haslam and team president Joe Banner. Many in the Steelers organization believe Wallace will end up with their division rivals in Cleveland (Haslam was a former minority owner of the Steelers), and the Browns could make a play for a pass rusher like Kruger, too. Should Vick become available, he too could be in play -- this new regime badly wants to upgrade from former first-round pick Brandon Weeden -- otherwise Alex Smith might make sense, among others.
Interesting, there's at least one other number floating around on this site closer to $48m. And I read $44m, can't remember where. I wonder where they got the $30m.
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Quote:
I agree.
Some people talk about signing free agents like they are talking about a STD.
I want to sign a couple of free agents in a effort to bump up the time frame. It's not like signing a few free agents is going to alter your plan of building through the draft.
Do both!
For the people that wanted to keep Holmgren or Heckert, one has to wonder how many games the team would have won had they actually tried to plug a few holes in free agency instead of not spending anything.
We can easily acquire 2-4 starting-caliber free agents without eating up the rest of our cap money, or jeopardizing future cap space.
I'm betting my bottom dollar that we're going to do more than Holmgren's failed regime did. If all we come away with are Frostee Rucker and Usama Young caliber players, we're doomed to another 5-win season. I'm 100% certain this regime is not about that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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$30M might be what we need to hit the salary cap floor. Not sure.
Mike Wallace would be great here. I actually would like to see Little lined up in the slot more often. And you could turn Benjamin into the PR/KR 4th WR he seems naturally designed for.
Sign Wallace, sign a top flight LG, draft a skilled TE like Eifert...let's go play ball.
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Legend
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Fifteen is carry over from last year
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I agree.
Some people talk about signing free agents like they are talking about a STD.
I want to sign a couple of free agents in a effort to bump up the time frame. It's not like signing a few free agents is going to alter your plan of building through the draft.
Do both!
I would think that signing some key free-agents would be a prerequisite for building through the draft. You're probably (especially being short a 2nd rounder this year) to be able to get all the pieces that you'd want to get through the draft. So, that implies that you're going to get some of those pieces in free agency.
What I think Haslam has said and reiterated on a couple of occasions, is that we won't make a big splash in free agency. Like giving up two first rounders for Flacco and paying him gobs of money and making him the highest paid player in NFL history. Folks, if that's what you think is going to happen or that it's what should happen, then you're fooling yourselves.
I take Haslam & Banner at their words. What reason do they have to lie about anything? They can be very coy about their intentions without saying much of anything and have every bit of it being true. If they came out and stated right off that they wouldn't trade up for any reason, I would expect that they'd stand pat or seek to trade back.
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Quote:
Interesting, there's at least one other number floating around on this site closer to $48m. And I read $44m, can't remember where. I wonder where they got the $30m.
I'm not sure, but it could be the minimum floor that they need to pay out above what they are currently expected to pay out in contractual obligations.
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I agree with you Peen, preach it!
Nothing wrong with signing free agents as long as you don't do it like Philly
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree.
Some people talk about signing free agents like they are talking about a STD.
I want to sign a couple of free agents in a effort to bump up the time frame. It's not like signing a few free agents is going to alter your plan of building through the draft.
Do both!
For the people that wanted to keep Holmgren or Heckert, one has to wonder how many games the team would have won had they actually tried to plug a few holes in free agency instead of not spending anything.
We can easily acquire 2-4 starting-caliber free agents without eating up the rest of our cap money, or jeopardizing future cap space.
I'm betting my bottom dollar that we're going to do more than Holmgren's failed regime did. If all we come away with are Frostee Rucker and Usama Young caliber players, we're doomed to another 5-win season. I'm 100% certain this regime is not about that.
I concur. I think we'll get a few nice additions, maybe as many as 3 or 4 of them. I can think of a few of them off the top of my head that we'll be targeting because I'm not sure that the new regime is sold on some players at less glamorous positions on the team.
In free agency, I expect that the Browns will seek to get an OG (I like Levitre myself) to sign with the team. I'm not convinced that they are sold on the guards that we have as far as run blocking.
The obvious position is QB, but it remains to be seen as to who will all the possible choices at this time. Some that aren't contractual free agents now could become free agents and be available when free agency begins. We just don't know yet. There has been lots of speculation here and I'm not sold on any of it.
Another position that seems like an obvious choice is at the LB corps. We could go after the likes of Paul Kruger from BallsNoMore or someone I really like, Connor Barwin from Houston. Shaun Phillips from San Diego is another. There are a number of others too. We could very well go after one of these guys to help in the corps of linebackers. It frees up an additional draft choice to add developmental guys or quality depth, because we don't have much of it.
We'll also need to get a punter and kicker and we have to use draft choices on them. To save more roster spots for further depth and saving yet another draft choice, I like getting a guy that can do both duties, both punting and kicking.
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If one looks at the current roster, we know we're going to need a corner, a safety, an OLB, a TE, and a QB. Early word is they like JMJ to pair with Jackson in the middle, but that's hardly a given.
So we have free agency and the 6th pick in the draft to fill the absolute minimum number of spots to say we've addressed all the starting positions.
If we go ahead and designate the 6th pick in the draft as a starter, that leaves us with 4 starting positions for free agency.
4 positions...and roughly $30 million after rookie pool numbers.
If the FO does this correctly, there isn't any reason we can't field an 8-8 team and still have a healthy rookie cap in the future.
Spending some money shouldn't just be a luxury. It should be a given.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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So in a perfect world...
1. Draft Dee Milliner for CB
2. Draft Jordan Reed or Dion Sims for TE
3. Sign Paul Kruger, Connor Barwin, or Shaun Phillips for OLB
4. Sign Jarius Byrd for FS
5. Roll with Weeden for one more year. If he succeeds in Norv's system then GREAT. If he doesn't, next year is the perfect year to sell the farm for a franchise QB ... with a legit team already in place.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Agreed that you build through the draft. You have to. You can't blow your wad on high-priced free agents and hope they get the same production here. But like you said, you need to bridge it with free agency. 2 guys with the potential of Wallace and Kruger can push this team to a .500 team alone, and with the young developing talent as well as the potential of the draft, who knows where we can go.
You have to be smart about it. Look at your needs, look at what we can potentially get in the draft if we draft at 6. We obviously need an OLB, CB, S, TE and possibly a G. Sure, we can get one or 2 starters from the draft, but there is no second rounder. You get some veteran leadership and talent to help this young corp of players, and you have the beginning of something good cooking....mmmmm, smells fantastic.
Also, we get penalized if we DON'T spend our cap money. And we gotta lot of it, so I'm quite sure with the way Jimmy has come out making a statement, we'll be active with some of the bigger names. And with the talent we have in the coaching staff and young players, I think guys will be more willing to come.
Besides, money talks.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
If one looks at the current roster, we know we're going to need a corner, a safety, an OLB, a TE, and a QB. Early word is they like JMJ to pair with Jackson in the middle, but that's hardly a given.
So we have free agency and the 6th pick in the draft to fill the absolute minimum number of spots to say we've addressed all the starting positions.
If we go ahead and designate the 6th pick in the draft as a starter, that leaves us with 4 starting positions for free agency.
4 positions...and roughly $30 million after rookie pool numbers.
If the FO does this correctly, there isn't any reason we can't field an 8-8 team and still have a healthy rookie cap in the future.
Spending some money shouldn't just be a luxury. It should be a given.
We can get Haden's legitimate counter in the 3rd round in this draft if we want and even go after the FS in free agency.
I don't expect that we'll got after Revis or Cromartie, but we could try to sign LaRon Landry as a free agent. We could even look to replace TJ Ward (who I think many Browns overvalue as a player) with a free agent such as Atlanta's William Moore. Of course, he'll look for a 'big paycheck' but after a 4-year, $3.4 million dollar deal, an upgrade in the paycheck shouldn't be a huge deal to pull off. He's been quite consistent since getting significant playing time.
I think that the best legacy that the former regime will leave will have been to leave so much cap space for the new ownership and front office to be able to deal.
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IF anybody wants to come here... 
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Quote:
So in a perfect world...
1. Draft Dee Milliner for CB
2. Draft Jordan Reed or Dion Sims for TE
3. Sign Paul Kruger, Connor Barwin, or Shaun Phillips for OLB
4. Sign Jarius Byrd for FS
5. Roll with Weeden for one more year. If he succeeds in Norv's system then GREAT. If he doesn't, next year is the perfect year to sell the farm for a franchise QB ... with a legit team already in place.
As for signings and the draft, I would be elated if it shook out that way.
As poor as our run-blocking was by the interior of our line, they are solid in the passing game and therefore at least adequate for the here-and-now. We could hold off for one more year as we build the roster.
Even if it did happen like that, we'd still have plenty of money to fill other lesser gaps, including bringing in someone to push Weeds.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
IF anybody wants to come here...
I think the vibe here is changing. It's obvious we have a very active owner who will do what it takes to win. We have some very respected coaches in our staff, and we have a young, talented roster that could be on the verge of something.
Oh and we have one more thing.
Money.
Who doesn't like a wallet full of Benji's???
If you made that statement one year ago, I'd say I agree with you. I think players shied away from coming at times because of the losing persona we've come to know in Cleveland. But this feels different. It isn't the same. There is energy. Optimism. And I think if they come, they'll feel it.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
IF anybody wants to come here...
That myth has been debunked for years.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
IF anybody wants to come here...
That myth has been debunked for years.
It has been proven for years.
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Legend
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Gary Baxter, LeCharles Bentley, Eric Steinbach, and Andre Rison disagree with you.
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Quote:
I take Haslam & Banner at their words. What reason do they have to lie about anything?
They work for a NFL team.
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Legend
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Quote:
4. Sign Jarius Byrd for FS
With the cuts the Bills made today, it is all but guaranteed that if Byrd doesn't re-sign he will be franchised.
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Gary Baxter, LeCharles Bentley, Eric Steinbach, and Andre Rison disagree with you.
Bentley's staph infection agrees with me.
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We need a punter badly. Hodges was pretty awful at times last year.
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Legend
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So the injury that he got after he signed says that he didn't want to sign? Makes sense.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Is it confirmed that we're getting field turf?
I think that could play a bit of a role in getting a guy like Mike Wallace. It's not the number one reason, don't get me wrong, but playing on a fast, state of the art field could be that added bonus that maybe helps sell a guy, especially a speed-burner like Mike Wallace.
Norv and Chud's offense + Weeden's deep ball + healthy Trent/running game + fast field
If not Wallace, maybe another WR. I do think they are going to add one somewhere.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,202
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,202 |
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Bentley's staph infection agrees with me.
You enjoying his staph are ya ? Not sure why you would say that. If you really want to make an argument of why free agents don't come here. Than give specific reasons other than one who comes here and gets an injury.
Bentley backed out of an agreement with the Eagles to come here. And in "06" he was considered one of the best free agents if not the best. He chose the Browns. Unfortunate what happened.
As far as free agents. Just because a player is available and has a big name to him. Doesn't always mean he is a fit for the structure / needs of a specific team.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
I take Haslam & Banner at their words. What reason do they have to lie about anything?
They work for a NFL team.
That doesn't mean that they'd lie about anything. It's not like they're in politics.
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