DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Scouting the TE class

So I watched some of the mid round targets and figured to start a new thread on another Browns need position

I watched Kelce, Reed and Sims

Kelce: this dude is versatile, I saw him line up ANYWHERE, from inline blocker to FB to outside WR to slot. He is a great, tenacious and very aware blocker on every level. He certainly got a tude blocking: nasty and gotta like it.
As a receiver he has nice awareness getting himself open underneath and he can also run it up the field as I saw him outrun a DB on his way to a TD. Best overall game of the 3. He got suspended for the entire 2010 season for violating team rules, that's a concern. He's also Jason Kelce's brother (Eagles starting C) and was also used as a wildcat QB his freshman season. I really like what he has to offer, he is a complete 3 down football player who can be lined up anywhere and does the often cited "little things" well.
By all accounts that's the kind of players we're looking for now, right? So watching tape on Kelce our guys should be all over him if he's still there at 68. I would take him as early as mid 2nd

Reed: let's start with the positive: he's a pretty good receiver, very athletic, quick and fast. He likes to hurdle jump a la Hillis, which led to a fumble into the endzone late in the 4th Qtr vs Georgia down by only 3p.
As a blocker well, let's just say that he isn't all that good, it's not horrible but he's not good at it, it's not a part of the game he seems to like as his body language tells me he just does enough he deems as enough, not following the plays much, not looking for 2nd targets etc. He's the most atheltic of the 3 but pretty much a receiver only as he lacks the bulk and attitude to block effectively. Would not draft him in the top 3 rounds and considering his constant health issues would not gamble on him earlier than late 4th/5th.

Sims: This guy is fun to watch. He's HUGE and a good blocker although sometimes a little sloppy and stiff, but he will at least be an above AVG blocker in the NFL, that's a given.
As a receiver, while not a weapon, he can hurt you and he seems to enjoy that part of the game too. The game I watched was one of his best and he had 2 ROFL catches where it took 3 or 4 small DBs to bring him down after the catch, he dragged them for 10-15 more yds, looked like a bad movie scene, lol. His hands aren't perfect and he got a free release and wasn't considered a threat since he played at the LOS a lot. He's the complete opposite to Reed and depending on what kind of TE you're looking for will be ranked accordingly. Thus to me he should be ranked similar to Reed, but with the bias in today's NFL the receiving weapons get rated higher, but I don't agree with that. I would not draft him on the 2nd day and probably find better value early in round 4, but Sims would be a great pick starting late 4th/5th and if given the choice I would rank/take him over Reed.


More to come and of course feel free to add your observations on TEs of this class.

I don't know where Joseph Fauria is going to get drafted, but I think he will be at least a league average tight end. He is not fast, but he is willing to block. He has two great assets, he is huge (6'7" 257 pounds) and has good hands. UCLA's offense on third and long and in the redzone was this -- throw the ball to Fauria.

What about Escobar, Django? Opinion? I just asked about him in the Big Board thread...

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Sims: This guy is fun to watch. He's HUGE and a good blocker although sometimes a little sloppy and stiff, but he will at least be an above AVG blocker in the NFL, that's a given.
As a receiver, while not a weapon, he can hurt you and he seems to enjoy that part of the game too. The game I watched was one of his best and he had 2 ROFL catches where it took 3 or 4 small DBs to bring him down after the catch, he dragged them for 10-15 more yds, looked like a bad movie scene, lol. His hands aren't perfect and he got a free release and wasn't considered a threat since he played at the LOS a lot. He's the complete opposite to Reed and depending on what kind of TE you're looking for will be ranked accordingly. Thus to me he should be ranked similar to Reed, but with the bias in today's NFL the receiving weapons get rated higher, but I don't agree with that. I would not draft him on the 2nd day and probably find better value early in round 4, but Sims would be a great pick starting late 4th/5th and if given the choice I would rank/take him over Reed.

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He's got a character issue, which would be the only reason he could fall that far. It's my belief he'll start going up the charts as teams realize he catches everything with his hands and is an A-blocker from the TE position. But you know how I felt about the guy already.

I would just sign Mercedes Lewis.

My feeling is Jordon Cameron makes TE a non issue with us until we play him on a regular basis.


Norv likes a TE who can get it up field in the seam, and I think we have that.


Blocking is great. It's like fullback, if you want a blocker, stick a extra guard or tackle in there. Ozzie wasn't a blocker, he was a weapon. A pretty good one for those young enough to not know. I want weapons or blockers. Not some half-ass in between player.


To me, in between gives you in between results. I don't want that. I want superior results. Whichever it is, go with that. Not this in between, mamby pamby crap.

Stick a drive blocker in there or stick a guy in there who can stretch the seam without some clod LB covering him.

One of the best TEs in the NFL is an "in-between" guy in Heath Miller. He's a good, clutch receiver and even better blocker...if it was so easy to just put an extra OL in there, don't you think teams would have figured that out by now? Since the TE works in space most starting OL, let alone backups, would look like robots trying to block speedy LBs and DBs. OL block DL for a reason, they match up. Put your swing OT at the TE position and watch your RB or QB get killed and you get VERY predictable since you eliminate a receiving threat from that spot....I digress

I watched Ertz vs USC, ND and Oregon and while I see why he's ranked so high, I think he's slightly overrated. Compared to the best TE I saw so far, Kelce, he's a better receiving threat but also a worse blocker, but nothing screams elite in his game...and for me to even consider a TE in round 1, there has to be something elite. He's a very good, versatile receiver, but again, not elite. I saw him drop some balls and while he had some nice catches too he didn't always look coordinated. As a blocker he's similar to Otten. I see some willingness, but he's a reach blocker not moving his feet well. He struggles even more blocking moving targets because of this, so he's a worse downfield blocker. He should be a mid 2nd round guy like Kelce, but the pass heavy NFL style obviously has him ranked higher.

If you have a TE who blocks like a WR, have him lined up in space like a WR, just call him a WR. Since a TE's job description is to do both, I want both and an "in-between" guy doing both at above AVG to good level is worth more to me than a one trick pony, who's great/elite at one but sucks at the other.

That said, I think I've shown my preference when I compared Reed to Sims and called them 180 versions of each other but value Sims higher. A big man who can't block is as wothless as a small man who can't block. Otoh, a big man ALWAYS represents a big target at least in the underneath passing game, so the big man who can block and catch at least underneath is more valuable to me to TE that whiff blocks and is only effective lined up as a WR...if you want that, draft or sign a freaking WR

Another argument can be made that a TE has WAY MORE snaps blocking then being targeted in the passing game. What's the AVG no1 TE targets per game? 6? So if you ask me if I value 6 potential pass receptions over 40+ something run and pass block downs, the answer for me gets even easier.

"Weapons" scoring TDs are always more known than the grunts blocking for it. Every AVG NFL fan knows far more skill position standouts than even elite OL or DL, that's another common misconception of the "production" and "effectiveness" of players.

Depends on system and the Offensive line. In Chud's scheme, I think Greg Little could easily fill that TE role ala Winslow. Hell he is a vastly superior blocker and he will work the middle of the field.

FA will have some talented receivers.

Anyway I know Norv loves the hybrid type TE. I think the best way is to find a TE that has great hands and is willing to block. Doesnt have to be good at it but he must be wlling. You can teach him to block but it is hard to teach those guys to catch this late in the game.

Sign me up for the TE as a receiving threat group. I don't know if you remember this but I was very big on Hernandez coming out of Florida. He didn't hold enough value to draft at the top of the draft but I thought he'd be a great player.

Found one of my old pre-2010 draft posts:

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By the way.....

I think Aaron Hernandez is a stud and could catch 6+ TDs a year for the right team. If we didn't have Ben Watson I'd be all over that guy.

Watching Florida games this past year I always thought I was watching Kellen Winslow running around out there in an 81 jersey.

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I could see plugging in Little at TE as one of those huge game changing personnel decisions. I hope Chud gives that a chance.

Would mean we would need to snag another WR at some point. If we could get our hands on Boldin I'd be crazy about our offense.

If I had my choice of TE I would go purely pass catching. It worked out very well with KW2 in 2007. I'm a huge fan of the big bodied, speedy, good hands players. I thought it was criminal we threw basically zero jump balls to Gordon last season. Maybe we can snag a guy like Finley and run an offense like 2007.

A guy that I think will be under-drafted is Toilolo from Stanford. 6'8 and I have seen him listed as heavy as 265# and as light as 239# with a projected 4.87 40 with a 27 inch vertical. Had less than optimal playing time because of the senior Ertz. Toilolo is a red shirt junior and reportedly needs some polishing but over the past 2 seasons he had 49 catches (10 for td) and averaged 15.3 yards/reception.

He looks like he has good hands and looks to be a powerful blocker. Disclaimer: I have not watched a lot of Stanford games.

Boldin, Bowe, Wallace, Welker there will be some FA talent out there.

Travis Kelce and CJ Fedorowicz were guys I loved watching the past season. CJ didn't produce because of his scrub QB. I think CJ returned but I want him next year.

Jermichael Finley also might get cut by the Packers.

IIRC, we played a ton of 2 TE offense when Chud was here in 2007. I seem to recall Steve Heiden playing quite a bit, mainly as a blocker, but he was a receiver as well. He kinda swapped out with Vickers quite a bit.

The problem with a "single threat TE" who is swapped out for an OL when we want to run is that you make it perfectly clear to the defense what you are going to do. I prefer a TE who can catch, run routes, and block competently. (and Ozzie became a competent, though never overwhelming blocker) That doesn't mean that the TE has to be a 6th offensive lineman.He must be able to be a competent blocker.

Heiden was one of those guys who just over-performed for his skillset. For a TE2 he was absolutely outstanding. Loved that guy.

Watson is getting up there in years. I don't know if he is dynamic enough for what they want to do on offense. But he doesn't absolutely need replacement (read: Usama Young).

If Cameron can't pull it together with Chud and Turner I don't know what to say for the guy. I can't imagine a better set of coaches to turn him into a star.

I don't think snagging a new TE is absolutely essential. It really will depend on how these guys evaluate what we arleady have. I'd rather snag a guy like Boldin/Wallace to fix our WR3 spot.

If Weeden can pull an Anderson 2007, this offense is very well equipped. Frankly I saw no reason to not consider us a playoff contender last season, a few close losses, key injuries and bad play at QB. If the QB play turns around this will be a playoff caliber team.

Watson is a free agent, isn't he? There is no guarantee that he'll be brought back. (or come back)

a guy that won't be drafted high, that has made quite a few plays for his team is TE Brandon Ford of Clemson. He's not the biggest TE in the draft, as he looks more like a huge WR, but the guy gets open and gets to the endzone to score points. He has a few clips on youtube if anyone wants to check him out.

Some sites he's projected to go anywhere from 3rd-6th round, and others 6th-7th.. I think the combine will help him though when he gets to show his speed.

I'll watch some Ford too, but have to pimp Mychal Rivera here first:

http://www.youtube.com/v/BZ5DiaOfM30

In those 2 games he looked like a good receiving option (please watch the sick TD catch at 6min) and a willing blocker. Wherever you read up on him he's considered a crappy blocker, but watch this and tell me where he is a liabilty blocking....he didn't lose many if any battles, shows willingness and unlike Ertz is especially good at blocking in the open field/while running. He lined up everywhere from inline, FB to outside and slot. Guy's considered a 7th rounder but I would be very happy picking him ANYWHERE on day 3

If Chris Gragg out of Arkansas checks out medically (knee injury in 2012) and he falls into day 3, then someone is going to get one heck of a steal.

Sometimes I question what these guys writing the scouting reports are looking at or if they c/p each other. All I read is that he's not a good blocker and when I watched him I saw one of the best blocking TEs in this class...and he's an even better, very productive receiver too

Lutzenkirchen from Auburn is strictly a H-Back guy, but a pretty good one at that. Has soem late round value

Watched Escobar vs Boise State and wasnt impressed. He wasn't bad but nothing I saw that makes me think this guy would be worth a Top 100 selection. He's a decent receiver, pretty crappy blocker for his size, simply lacks the attitude and technique to do it. I guess there's a lot of projection involved surrounding his hype, since he's a JR and size/speed....maybe starting late 4th/5th but I like others more, both as players and value.

Finally got to watch Tyler Eifert vs Stanford, BYU and Purdue

This guy is the clear cut no1 TE in this class. I really don't get how anyone can rank Ertz above him. Eifert is a MUCH better blocker, both in-line and in the open field, he gives much more effort and seems to like it. He's also better overall receiver, absolutely LOVE his coordination when the ball is in the air, elite. Perfect timing to jump, position his body etc. Ertz (and most other TE prospects) has looked goofy on some similar plays.

This really shouldn't even be a debate. Eifert is a guy I would draft almost anywhere outside the top 10, especially in a weak class. Another possible option in case of a trade down.

Right now my TE ranking looks like this with corresponding "ok" value range:

1 Eifert...mid 1st
2a Kelce...mid 2nd
2b Ertz....mid 2nd
4 Gragg...3rd
5 Rivera....4th
6a Sims...late 4th
6b Reed...late 4th/5th
6c Escobar...4th/5th
9 Otten...mid/late 5th
10 Lutzenkirchen...6th
11 Fauria...7th/UDFA

I really like Eifert as well, so I was confused when Milliner basically made him vanish in the Title game. I think Milliner is one of just a couple "special" players in this draft. Might be better than Haden.

And keep in mind Eifert is way bigger than Milliner. Thats not a slam on eiffert but a kudos to Milliner

Eifert also had a freshman QB throwing to him. ND won games despite Golson, he's not good at all.

Agreed... but Milliner was the one that won the balls in the air majority of the game.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/articl...4b-3a4da128c05a

5 To Know: Broaddus Evaluates Current Class Of Tight Ends

Here are a few tight ends to keep an eye on as we get ready for the 2013 NFL Draft:

Tyler Eifert 6-5, 252 Notre Dame

Would call him a hybrid player….lines up at several different spots in the formation….mainly plays flexed or off the wing…will see him inline or as a “Y” but not as much….you see him move across the formation when he lines up as the wing….is a much better receiver than he is a blocker….had a nice adjust catch with the ball behind him in the Stanford game….is often used as a backside blocker….doesn’t play with much strength at the point of attack…it’s hard for him to get movement when he tries to block…really lacks sustain….would not say that he is strong enough to really set the edge as a blocker…has a hard time as a blocker one-on-one…really didn’t see the toughness to handle a defensive end…gave effort to try and finish but just not always successful….will lunge and over extend as a pass blocker….was used as a “Wham” blocker inside and got rejected against USC….as mentioned does most of his damage in the passing game…fights to get up the field but doesn’t have much initial quickness or speed but when given free access in the route he is much better….knows how to use his body to get separation….see him push off to get in route…good hands and adjust to the ball in traffic…runs routes down the field but will also hook up inside and catch the ball…showed some sideline awareness against Alabama trying to get his foot down to make a high ball catch…looks like he has more zip in his routes when he was in the red zone….was doubled in the red zone against Stanford and Alabama…would not say that he is dynamic with his run after catch like Reed of Florida….gets what he can and only saw one time where it didn’t look like he protected the ball against Alabama when they ripped it from him but he was ruled down…respect the way he catches the ball but will have to develop better as a blocker.

Zach Ertz 6-6, 252 Stanford

Plays in an offense that is very tight end friendly…like Eifert of Notre Dame you see him on the backside of plenty of blocks….matter of fact he is a much worse blocker than Eifert….will go to the ground when he is lined up as the “Y”….plays like a big receiver…you see him mainly in the slot and at times on the wing….thought he was a much smoother athlete getting up the field than Eifert but not the athlete of Reed of Florida…plays with nice initial quickness and pace getting off the line…like Eifert knows how to push off to buy himself some room…hands are outstanding…catches very easily in them…see him run deep crossing routes across the field and coming up with the ball like he did against UCLA….aware to work in zone whether it man or zone…will keep running or sit down to make himself a target…had a sweet “Escape” (in and out route) for a nice catch and first down….also showed the ability to run the “Nod and Up” against Wisconsin that put the team in position to get the first points of the Rose Bowl….can make those high point catches…can hurt the defense with his ability to catch the ball in the middle of the field….if he has a weakness again, he is a terrible blocker….is more get in the way than trying to stick his nose in there and work his man off the line…will bounce off man and try to get to second level but isn’t always successful….would call his ability to get down the field rare and with his hands is his best trait. Like Eifert of Notre Dame and Reed of Florida is that hybrid player.

Travis Kelce 6-6, 260 Cincinnati

Of the five tight ends I studied today, this guy is the most complete….there is no questions about his blocker nor his ability to make plays with the ball in his hands…he will line up mainly as the “Y” but you will also see him as a wing….when he is flex outside, he is usually blocking for a wide receiver screen and doing it quite well…gets some movement in the running game…nice with the down block or working to the outside…can really adjust in space…you don’t see separation in his game….once he is on you, you are done….plays with some initial quickness and pop…does a nice job when he has to sit in there in pass protection…really stays after his block…can make clearing blocks on the edge like he did against Syracuse…really nice balance….don’t see him on the ground at all…has a nice release up the field for a big man…when the ball is thrown his direction he snatches it with his hands and has the ability to make the first man miss…very good stop-start quickness…you want to throw the ball to him on the move because he can be a problem to bring down in the open….ran a tight end delay for a touchdown where he drove his man down inside then released up the field uncovered....really nice athletic ability against Rutgers laying out for a catch along the sideline but just couldn’t get his one foot down…don’t know the story about why he was suspended the entire 2010 season for a team violation but I am sure the scouts do….in a game that is played by tough guys, I would take him on my team for the things he can do on the field….if you paired him with Witten and Hanna it would be interesting to see those three work.

Jordan Reed 6-3, 225 Florida

It’s amazing how Florida recruits these players for one position, then works them into another….he is that hybrid player that Bill Parcells liked…used from a variety of spot along the formation: inline or “Y” tight end, flexed tight end, receiver, H-back, and even some running back….Adequate blocker when able to ride the shoulder and drive…does a nice job of staying after his block…push-shove type of blocker…more position than domination…very smooth in breaks on outside breaking routes….has a real feel for how to run routes and get open…like when he has the ball on the move…runs the best of these tight ends…shines with the ball in hand, makes moves in space that are impressive….doesn’t run out of bounds or take the easy way out… consistently makes oncoming defenders miss with moves or speed. Gets physical to earn the first down or extra yard at the end of runs was able to do that against LSU…knows how to work zones….will sit down and make catches…showed this against Georgia…shows body control and balance….teams will fall in love with his athletic ability and also his ability to be a mismatch player down the field…hard guy to cover with a linebacker and too much for a safety…his ability to catch and run after catch is outstanding…is a legitimate threat to hurt defenses with his play.

Gavin Escobar 6-6, 255 San Diego State

Has impressive size and ability….strength of his game is his ability to catch the ball…has the athletic ability to get off the line and into his routes…would call him a legitimate threat in the passing game because of his ability to run…will catch the ball in traffic and then run through the tackle…has the strength to run through tacklers but you don’t always seen strength in his blocking…will turn out and shield the defender from the field…has trouble getting the edge sealed as a reach blocker….there were plays where he didn’t quite get his head across his man….not really strong enough on the backside cut off either…didn’t get the feeling that he really liked to stick his nose in there and block…much better receiver than blocker….lead the Aztecs in receptions in 2012 but also had six touchdowns…plays with some quickness to his game…will see him line up at several different positions in the formation but mainly as the “H”….is a much better player on the move…will see him stay in as a pass blocker but to me that is a waste of his ability because he can get down the field….did a nice job of this against Fresno State….like Eifert, Ertz and Reed the best trait he has is his ability to cause a defense problems in coverage because of size and athletic ability…will really have to develop some strength to become that more complete tight end when it comes to blocking but smart coaches offensive coaches will find ways to get him up the field.

Nice info ,Thanks .. What round is Kelce projected in ?...

In fact A big thanks to a bunch of Dawgs who are light years ahead of me when it comes to these college Kids !

I really like the idea of trading back and picking up a 2nd and grabbing Eifert...

I don't know where he's slotted currently, but I'd trade far enough back to get a first next year and still get him if possible...

Looks like mid 2nd to mid 3rd is where Kelce is expected to go right now. Not sure he slides to our 3rd, but if he does and we haven't signed a FA TE, then he should be a strong consideration. Complete 3 down TEs don't grow on trees nowadays

... Complete 3 down TEs don't grow on trees nowadays ... That's for sure !

Escobar was the guy I was asking Django about a little while ago.

Not that intriguing w the way they're describing his blocking. Or blocking deficiency, I should say...

Sometimes i wonder if these so called experts actually watch the games cause i have read other articles that have said that Ertz is a very good blocker. I haven't seen him play so i personally don't know. Can anybody who has watched him let us know what they think?

The stuff I wrote on EVERY TE in here is film based. Same for Broaddus, who's a former NFL scout.

Ertz is pretty much one of the worst blockers in this class, he doesn't even try. Reed and Eifert will also struggle blocking in the NFL, but at least they try, so there's maybe some hope left. Ertz simply sucks at it, he thinks he's a WR.

The only above AVG lockers in this class are Kelce, Sims and Lutzenkirchen, although I'm not sure Sims' technique will be enough, he's all power right now. M.Williams is supposed to be a strong blocker too, but I haven't seen him play. Gragg was also a much better blocker than what I see written around the net.

The only TE that is good enough to start as both a blocking AND receiving TE is Kelce. TEs tend to drop on draft day and with the NFL enamoured with the WR hybrids, there's a chance Kelce drops to our 3rd (68th ovr). Almost independent on who is left there, I'm pretty sure he'd be a top5 consideration there for me

Ok thanks, missed your piece on Ertz.