Quote: NFL doctors have given Georgia OLB Jarvis Jones a clean bill of health regarding early-college concerns about spinal stenosis.
USC's medical staff wouldn't clear Jones to play football due to the spinal condition as a freshman. So he transferred to Georgia, received medical clearance, and went on to become one of the SEC's most feared pass rushers. Health concerns will ostensibly be a non-issue going forward regarding Jones' draft stock. ESPN's Mel Kiper insists Jones will be a top-five pick, but Rotoworld's Josh Norris expects Jones to slip into the teens; perhaps to Pittsburgh at No. 17. Feb 12 - 8:30 PM
He would be a great fit in Hortons defense. Many athletes have mild forms of spinal stenosis. I have it myself and it was never an issue. It is just the more severe forms that create issues.
Quote: He would be a great fit in Hortons defense. Many athletes have mild forms of spinal stenosis. I have it myself and it was never an issue. It is just the more severe forms that create issues.
Seems like Suggs was always battling an injury but was his back ever an issue? I mean I know his shoulder and knee were big problems but I cant remember if his back was.
People act like there spinal stenosis is a binary thing. Either you don't have it and you're fine or you do have it and it will end your career early. Like any condition, it falls along a continuum. It is entirely possible that he does have a slight narrowing, to the point where he could be diagnosed with the condition, without it being anywhere close to career endangering. It was also never clear that his spinal stenosis was even cervical in nature. The assumption was made because he was listed as having a neck strain initially, but it could be that his narrowing occurs elsewhere and was merely found by the specialist while he evaluated the initial (possibly unrelated) neck injury. I've never understood the rush to assume the worst about the injury. Let the doctors who are actually trained and have access to Jones and his medical records figure out how serious it is.
As you said before, each team is going to review the medical records and make their own determination. If the Doc's at the Cleveland Clinic or whoever we use give him a thumbs up, I am good with that and he is right there in the mix of things.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Jones would be a great pick for us. He's a playmaker and a pass rusher. I rank him even with Moore and Ansah, and ahead of Mingo and Jordan if we go OLB here. But any of those guys could put our defense over the top. One of them, a free agent LB and a CB either in third or as a free agent, improved guard play, a healthy TR and Weeden in Chud/Norv system and we have a team that can win 10 games. Oh, I do this to myself every year. But sooner or later, I'll be right ....
If Jones is TRULY not a medical risk...we can't know that for sure...then he's the rusher I'd want over Moore, Mingo, and the rest. In fact, if Jones is medically cleared by everyone and his head is on straight, he's my pick over Milliner. Now if Jones doesn't test out, I'd probably go back to Milliner over the other rushers because I don't see them as being as dynamic as Jones.
I've watched everything I can on Moore, Mingo, Werner, and Jones.
Werner has the most ability, but he's the least dynamic and has the worst motor I've seen in ten years. Also has the quickest first step I've seen in years. He's a project in the 3-4. He belongs as a 4-3 end.
Mingo isn't physical in space. Does have a ton of natural rush ability. He's going to have to gain a ton of weight to make it, and that might slow him down too much for the 3-4. I've watched him run around or away from too many blocks to even want him sooner than the 2nd in the 3-4. He ends up on his ass or unbalanced too often. I get the sense that he doesn't look fluid enough in space. He looks more like a guy that when he adds weight will end up as a 4-3 DE, but could be great in that defense.
Moore has ability but isn't as active as Jones. He also doesn't have the fluidity of Jones out in space and spent most of his Senior year rushing upfield with his hands on the ground.
Jones is amazingly quick in space, uses his hands amazingly well when rushing, and what may be the most important thing for us, he can line up as the Sam or the Will equally as well, meaning Sheard can stay weakside where he's less skittish. Jones probably is a little light right now and would need to add some weight, but not that much, maybe 10 pounds or so. For a guy his size, he does take on a block very well and doesn't get shoved around like Mingo. Werner has a quicker get off the snap, but it's close.
After watching all of them ad-nauseum, Jones looks head-and-shoulders better to me than the rest. He looks like a total 3-4 OLB. He'd be as much a waste in the 4-3 with his hand on the ground as Werner would be out in space in the 3-4.
If Jones is cleared, he's my guy. If he's not, then I think the next best value is Milliner. Of course it depends on who we sign and for what position in free agency.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Nice highlight package. He kind of looks like a big safety out there. And he can move no doubt. He's slippery. I see him being a guy who can get after the QB but not sure if he's ever going to be good when he's getting run at.
No doubt he'd be a fine player for us to get at 6.
Joeckel goes 1 (I think Andy reid gets his QB in the 2nd) Werner goes 2 to the Jags Raiders will trade down with the Bills or Cards and Geno Smith goes here Eagles goes Fisher Lions should take Millner so they will take another DL lol We very well could end up with Millner, Moore and Jones all sitting there and then Lombardi drafts Barkley and then there is a riot lol
Jarvis is a great pass rusher, no doubt. Not sure how stout he is against the run. We would need some combination of Rubin/Taylor/Hughes as the NT and the DE on his side. Then put Wynn as DE on the side with Sheard. We would need DE who can be stout at the point of attack vs the run on his side of the field.
Jones can rush the passer and chase down the Rb when the run goes up the middle or to the opposite side of the field but when offenses run right at him he isn't big and strong enough (at this point in time) to shut the run down. But with a year or two in an NFL training system he should bulk up with muscle (if he puts in the effort).
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Do you guys just watch his highlights? or do you also care to watch ENTIRE games, because in pretty much ALL his games he gave up as many (in the Bama game this ratio was more like 1 to 5) big plays as he's made. He's an absolute NON FACTOR and liability vs the run....he got destroyed in the Bama game and that's the kind of talent he's gonna face every sunday. It's nice that he can run around some Wake Forest OL bum but he won't face that anymore when he gets drafted
Watch this and then come back to me with how great J.Jones is. I see a lazy bum who's game gets worse with every Qtr, watch his "effort" on some crucial 3rd down or GL plays or his "lowlights" at 4:12, 7:45 (and pretty much every play from there on when Bama wisely decided to run right at him down 3p, see 8:55). His 2 "sacks" were pretty much coverage sacks where he did next to nothing and the QB ran right into him. On one of those plays he got dominated (yet again) and then got lucky
compare this to Moore's tape vs Bama. Played like a true team player and unlike Jones he got better as the game wore on. Totally different players and it's not even close and not even factoring in any health related concerns
So? I still see the same player only that he got a much easier TE-matchup in Reed vs M.Williams (Bama), that's why he played the run much better, problem is a guy like Reed won't play much as an inline blocker in the NFL, he will face the M.Williams' of the NFL there. His 1st sack was pretty much his only QB pressure the 1st half and again the QB ran right back into him. His hustle was much better overall in this game, although again there were instances where he lacks that kind of team player urgency, like on that screen play to his side at 3:45 (on the replay you can see 1) that he reacts late to pursuit and then 2) simply fails to tackle once he gets close...that's horrible body language). Another lowlight came on back to back run plays starting at 5min (whole series was crap). His best plays were ALL accident plays, his sack, a run TFL and the fumble at 7min. He did nothing great really to force those plays, he pretty much got them handed. His best play was the sack at 7:45, I'll give him that, but again while he took a great route to the QB, he wasn't touched at all. His next sack at 8:45 was a lol-"no effort" sack, that is ALL on the QB and OT, he won't see many of those on sundays...that Florida QB is horrible btw and hardly a measure of what's to come. On the last drive, only up by 8p Florida AGAIN ran right at him with success (9:40min +, that QB run on 2nd&1 was another lowlight, should have been an easy TFL, instead he gets a 1st down...the game is on the line there!, again showing little urgency and game situation awareness, a constant when you look at his play and a 180 on a guy like D.Moore, whos game gets at his best in those situations)...at the end they got lucky that Reed fumbled into the EZ just like on that RZ INT before (in the replay you can see how the pass to Reed was RIGHT over Jones' head but he never raised his hands, something he NEVER does, when he can't get to the QB, again, showing the lack of "little things", he's not a football player) If that's somehow supposed to be his best game, consider me underwhelmed...in baseball they'd call a guy like him a "mistake hitter". I hope we stay the hell away from him, he's a one trick pony and incredibly overrated. He has NFL speed but lacks everything else a front 7 guy should have: tackling, awareness, hustle...and again, all that BEFORE the medical red flag, just looking at his tape
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
I didn't see anything special in any of those videos...certainly not #6 overall material.
Yuck.
Jones is waaaaay overated, small, and fast (he should try SS) and Moore was nothing special and looks like a DE to me...nowhere near a pass-rushing 3-4 OLB.
Toad wrote exactly what I was going to write he just got in ahead of me.
Living in Atlanta where the Bulldogs are like religion I get all the reports on the locals. Jarvis Jones is a man.
He could very well be the best player in this draft. If he is cleared by the Browns doctors he is worth the sixth pick. The reason for taking Milliner is only because of the medical concern with Jones.
Jarvis Jones would be my first choice. If he is drafted before we can get him or the doctors have concerns then Milliner should be the pick.
** ( I would look to trade down if the right deal presents itself)
Given that there are so many OLB/DEs this year, would it make sense to target the second tier of those guys and drop down with our No. 1, maybe getting Warmack (G) or Okafor (OLB) in the first, pick up a second-rounder and grab a guy like Elam (S)? I guess it depends on what they do in free agency. And even if we commit to Weeden as our default starter (barring a Russell Wilson style surprise), when should we grab a QB? I think on of Tyler Wilson, Matt Barkley, EJ Manual and the guy from Syracuse could be there in the third round.
2) If we do, please don't draft Elam, unless you want to get rid of Ward, because Elam is a pure SS as he's "not good" in coverage
3) If Milliner and Moore are gone, then a trade down is the best way to go
4) Best case scenario in a trade down is E.Ansah + another top 50 and/or top 100 pick
5) Even if Milliner or Moore are there it could make sense, but then you'd have to pick good. Example: to me CB Banks + TE Eifert > CB Milliner.....or....DE/OLB Ansah + G J.Cooper > DE/OLB Moore...
6) Lombardi factor: if we "tank" the additional pick, then a trade down is bad value. If the 2nd player we take is an OT or RB or DE Hunt or SS Elam or S Reid or WR Dobson or LB Ogletree or any ILB...or we overdraft a QB with it, then it will NOT be worth it
7) If our "choice" at 6 is between J.Jones, Mingo and Ansah at pass rusher, then it's absolutely the right thing to do
8) My 2 dream trade downs are still with the Rams swapping our 6+68 (1850p) for their 16+22 (1780p) + their 4th (or some future 3rd/4th + some 5th-7th in 2013)...or..with the 49ers, who trade up from 31 to 6 for Lotulelei giving us their 2014 1st + 61st + 93rd + 5th rounder
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Umm, no? I've gone through the whole Florida game some posts ago, which was supposed to be one of his best games. Jones doesn't understand situational football and is not a team player. Not the kind of player I'd want to add to my front 7.
FWIW, I'm not totally alone with this. A paysite has him scouted as a 3rd round talent
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Jones is anything BUT a "lazy bum." That's just crazy-talk. There's only one lazy player in this group and that's Werner.
At the bottom is Jones versus Nebraska. Since this kind of spread-option is being used now, it's a good barometer for what he might do in the NFL. In this game you'll see him dropping out into coverages, which you don't see from the rest of this group. Early on you'll see him drop then shadow and come up and get Martinez.
At the 3:30 mark you'll see 3 consecutive plays where he takes on the blocks and sheds. On the last two he has great use of his hands which is something he does better than Mingo and just as well as Moore.
At the 5:15 mark he's rushing, then turns and chases the RB 25-yards downfield to help make the tackle.
At the 6:55 mark Jones shows an explosive first step, gets held to the ground, then gets up and chases Martinez across the field. That's the 4th quarter, by the way, in a game where they have a double-digit lead, late. He didn't have to hustle. But he did.
At the 8:30 mark he drops back into coverage and has a pass-defensed against Martinez because he made the correct read.
Simply put, Jones in the most complete 3-4 OLB in this draft. Any 240 OLB is going to get swallowed-up by a 325 pound, future first-day draft pick offensive lineman when they go 1-1. If ANY 240 pound OLB is asked or gets matched-up to someone like that in the NFL, they aren't going to win many battles. The thing to look at isn't whether or not he's getting pushed backwards by a guy who outweighs him by 70 pounds. They key to a guy like this is how he uses his hands and how he gains leverage. Jones does this very well, as the "tape" shows.
How many times do we see Moore drop back into coverage? Moore doesn't have the explosiveness quickness of Jones without his hand on the ground. Moore has a little more natural power. Moore can play in either the 4-3 as a pure DE or the 3-4 as an OLB. Jones can't play DE in either defense, and is a pure OLB.
If you want a little more power you go for Moore, as he's more of a straight-line rusher and a little better against the run than Jones. If you want more of a disruptive play-maker who has a little more athletic ability and elite quickness, and can work better in space you go for Jones. The big question with Jones is his neck. As I'd stated earlier, it's all dependent on that checking out.
Both guys are high-motor guys. Both guys can get to the QB, albeit in slightly different ways. They are better risks for us than either Mingo or Werner. Either guy would be great for this team, and I'd be very pleased to see their names here.
By the way...Safety? Really?? He's FAR too valuable as an up-the-field disruptor to be wasted in a conversion attempt. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/v/eSMBRH-AzGk[/youtube]
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Yes, Milliner is the consensus number one Cb but I would much rather trade down and take Rhodes or Banks and get an extra pick or two than take Milliner at #6. There just isn't that much of a difference between the 3.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
If we have a good enough Free Agency period, I'd be fine trading out of the first round completely, Grabbing another 2nd and 3rd, and a 1st next year, setting us up in case Weeden falls flat and we can grab the best QB and have a team ready to go around him...
Or just sign Flacco
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
I would be fine with that kind of trade down regardless of what we are able to do in free agency. There will be soe very very good Qb's coming out in the next year or two. I want to be in position to get one when they do. If not next year then trade out again and get another 1st the year after and keep doing that until we are able to get a guy we truly believe will become an elite Qb.
I know what people will say. We have tried that before and failed. But we were prepared to do that we just failed to execute last year. And no matter how many times we try and fail this is our beset chance to get one of these guys unless we throw games to get that #1 overall pick in the right year.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
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They key to a guy like this is how he uses his hands and how he gains leverage. Jones does this very well, as the "tape" shows. 
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