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It's a step by step process..
If they work out a deal now, fine.. It's over...
But if he has to be tagged, and they choose to tag him Non-Exclusivley, so as not having to cut anyone else..
Then it's up to the rest of the NFL... I think it comes down to us and Buffalo, two teams with talented pieces but are missing a QB, Buffalo only has 20 million so they can't go big this year, but we could literally offer Flacco 30 mil for this year and still have 20 mil after that for FA/Draft...
Do Banner/Lombardi think Flacco is the guy? If so Money won't matter...
And if we throw 30 mil at Flacco for next year, the Ravens almost CAN'T match it...
It's all up to Joe.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If the Ravens gave Flacco the non-exclusive tag, the Browns could, for example, swoop in with $48 million in cap space this year and offer Flacco a 5 year/$100 million deal, with $75 million guaranteed. They could give him a 1st year salary of $35 million ... taking advantage of the massive cap space we have. This would be an impossible deal for the Ravens to match. The Browns could then drop his 2nd year salary down to $10 million, fully guaranteed. Year 3 could go to $15 million, fully guaranteed. They then could have year 4 with a salary of $20 million, with $10 guaranteed, and year 5 with a salary of $20 million, with $5 million guaranteed. A deal structured like this would give the Browns the ability to sign a premium QB while not hitting a $20 million salary until year 4 of the deal. (after the initial salary of $35 million this year, when they can easily afford it under the cap) They would also have the ability to look at Flacco in years 4 and 5, when he has minimal guarantees, and to then negotiate an extension if he performs as they hope. This is just an example, obviously ...... but this is the Ravens' worst nightmare if the give Flacco the non-exclusive tag. Add in that there is no sure fire QB in this year's draft .... and it makes it an even more precarious situation for the Ravens. My gut is telling me that the Ravens have to give Flacco the exclusive tag if they can't reach a deal ..... but then they have to make painful cuts to afford him, and they can kiss every one of their other free agents goodbye. The Ravens cannot go back to the era of players like Kyle Boller, Jeff Blake, Tony Banks, and so on. Newsome knows the value of a franchise QB ... and how hard it is to win without one. Personally, I hope that Flacco holds out for every last penny with the Ravens, and signs an exclusive tag tender immediately. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We ain't giving BallsNoMore two 1st round picks for Flacco. Ain't happening. Bank it! Only way that we get Flacco is if he is allowed to walk and they go for him. Even at that, I don't think they give him contract averaging $15 million per season.
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Washington gave 3 1st for a rookie.. and was applauded by most...
If we only give up 2 (#6 in a "weak draft" and who knows where next year) for the reigning SB MVP...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Ytown, you keep talking about the money, but what about the 2 first rounders we'd have to pony up.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ytown, you keep talking about the money, but what about the 2 first rounders we'd have to pony up.
Worth it.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'm just hoping for the cheaper solution.. Get someone cheap to compete with Weeden..Hoping that a system will be instilled in order for him to succeed. Which I believe they may want the same.
For once I would like to see a QB we drafted be placed in a system that fits his strengths so he and this team can succeed.
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Washington gave 3 1st for a rookie.. and was applauded by most idiots...
There! Fixed it!
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If we only give up 2 (#6 in a "weak draft" and who knows where next year) for the reigning SB MVP...
You're giving them up to a division rival and you're helping that rival off-load a cap burden.
Tell me what's good about that?
SB MVP? Who the eff cares? Bad officiating (probably the worst in NFL Super Bowl history) handed BallsNoMore the game. San Fran would have likely won except for an atrocious call under two minutes to go in the game. But that's neither here nor there. Fact is, I couldn't care less about signing Flacco unless the team is free to do so without giving BallsNoMore any picks whatsoever.
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Ytown, you keep talking about the money, but what about the 2 first rounders we'd have to pony up.
Worth it.
4-12, 5-11, 5-11, 4-12, 5-11
I'd rather use the #6 overall pick on Geno Smith. You're burning only one first rounder (Weeden was on the previous regime) and saving a crap load of money!
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Washington gave 3 1st for a rookie.. and was applauded by most idiots...
There! Fixed it!
And yet Washington made the playoffs, and we didn't... Interesting..
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If we only give up 2 (#6 in a "weak draft" and who knows where next year) for the reigning SB MVP...
You're giving them up to a division rival and you're helping that rival off-load a cap burden.
Tell me what's good about that?
They'd be starting Tyrod Taylor at QB currently, and their defense is OFFICIALLY not what it used to be...
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SB MVP? Who the eff cares? Bad officiating (probably the worst in NFL Super Bowl history) handed BallsNoMore the game. San Fran would have likely won except for an atrocious call under two minutes to go in the game. But that's neither here nor there. Fact is, I couldn't care less about signing Flacco unless the team is free to do so without giving BallsNoMore any picks whatsoever.
Excuses much?
The guy had the best post season since Joe Montana... If we had won a Super Bowl because another team blew a coverage would you turn the trophy in?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Ytown, you keep talking about the money, but what about the 2 first rounders we'd have to pony up.
We gave up a 2nd and a future #1 for Brady Quinn, and most people thought that was a great move.
I'd happily give up 2 first rounders for a quality, experienced, still in his prime QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ytown, you keep talking about the money, but what about the 2 first rounders we'd have to pony up.
Worth it.
I don't think so,, I was against going all out for RG3 last year and so far, I feel pretty good about my feelings. I'm not sure that kid is going to have a 5 year career in the NFL with how he plays.
I was against going all out to get Bradford what was it, 4 years ago.. pretty glad we didn't do that one either.
Wasn't against going after Luck but that one,, wow, I don't think there was ever a chance that was going to happen..
Flacco is a proven commodity. But he's not going to have Bolden here or anyone close (well, maybe Gordon and little can grow into greatness, dunno)
And without the two first round picks,, it's going to be year three before you get him some receiving help.
Our line is probably better than the Ravens or at least on Par. we can find a good TE in the draft this year,, so maybe it would work.
But still, you are talking about going after a guy that didn't know the rules of the game and suggested an action in the Superbowl that would have cost them the game.
Ask yourself, would you want him had he gone out there and tackled the kick returner and cost the ravens the superbowl?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ytown, you keep talking about the money, but what about the 2 first rounders we'd have to pony up.
Worth it.
4-12, 5-11, 5-11, 4-12, 5-11
I'd rather use the #6 overall pick on Geno Smith. You're burning only one first rounder (Weeden was on the previous regime) and saving a crap load of money!
What the hell do our records have to do with it? Besides show what we've done without good QB play...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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But still, you are talking about going after a guy that didn't know the rules of the game and suggested an action in the Superbowl that would have cost them the game.
Ask yourself, would you want him had he gone out there and tackled the kick returner and cost the ravens the superbowl?
Really? That's your argument?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I dont want Flacco and believe he is an average QB that got hot at the right time. Plus, when has anything that came from the ravens ever worked out for the Browns?
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Ytown, you keep talking about the money, but what about the 2 first rounders we'd have to pony up.
We gave up a 2nd and a future #1 for Brady Quinn, and most people thought that was a great move.
I'd happily give up 2 first rounders for a quality, experienced, still in his prime QB.
I agree. You also have to factor he is a draft choice, so it's like giving up one 1st rounder.
It's like giving up the #6 pick in the draft for the #1 pick in the draft, and giving up next years first round pick.
Flacco would be our draft choice this year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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And yet Washington made the playoffs, and we didn't... Interesting.
Did them a lot of good, didn't it?
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If we only give up 2 (#6 in a "weak draft" and who knows where next year) for the reigning SB MVP...
You're giving them up to a division rival and you're helping that rival off-load a cap burden.
Tell me what's good about that?
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They'd be starting Tyrod Taylor at QB currently, and their defense is OFFICIALLY not what it used to be.
Not for long. They could rebuild that D in a hurry and they'd find a replacement at QB.
I'm sure that Ozzie Newsome would love to have the #6 and #32 overall first round picks this year and another Top 15 and mid-20s to 30s pick next year.
Thank God this regime won't listen to the team's fans when deciding who to select in the draft or who to go after in free agency.
I used to think that Browns fans were smarter than they've proved to be.
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Excuses much?
Ignorance much? Wait! You're a typical Browns fan.
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The guy had the best post season since Joe Montana... If we had won a Super Bowl because another team blew a coverage would you turn the trophy in?
Irrelevant arguments much? And it wasn't a blown coverage, it was a mugging in the end zone of Crabtree. Did you even watch the game?
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But still, you are talking about going after a guy that didn't know the rules of the game and suggested an action in the Superbowl that would have cost them the game.
Ask yourself, would you want him had he gone out there and tackled the kick returner and cost the ravens the superbowl?
Really? That's your argument?
The whole argument? No,, but it's part of it yeah.. so I ask you, do you want a guy that doesn't know the rules? I mean, do you wanna pay someone 100 million when he doesn't know the rules..
Besides, this is a moot discussion, it ain't happening.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So teams should NEVER make trades because people can get hurt?
I was reffering to the Denver game...
Baltimore never trailed in the Super Bowl, and SF lost because of bad coaching...
If it was so easy to "find a replacement" QB then why haven't we done it?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Wasn't against going after Luck but that one,, wow, I don't think there was ever a chance that was going to happen.
So many people here were all for going after RG3 and going the extra mile - some saying that four first rounders would have been worth it.
If I'm giving away 4 first rounders to go up from #6, I'm only trading for the #1 spot overall. I'm not playing second fiddle to anyone! I'd have sent those four firsts to Indy, not St. Louis. In fact, when St. Louis was trying to get me to up the ante, I would have simply offered the same to Indy to see if they would take it. If not, just sit pat. The former regime didn't even do that. They moved up 1 spot and got played by Minnesota to do it, giving up 3 extra picks!
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But still, you are talking about going after a guy that didn't know the rules of the game and suggested an action in the Superbowl that would have cost them the game.
Ask yourself, would you want him had he gone out there and tackled the kick returner and cost the ravens the superbowl?
Really? That's your argument?
The whole argument? No,, but it's part of it yeah.. so I ask you, do you want a guy that doesn't know the rules? I mean, do you wanna pay someone 100 million when he doesn't know the rules..
Besides, this is a moot discussion, it ain't happening.
Donavan McNabb didn't know how Overtime worked... He's likely going to the Hall of Fame..
Flacco didn't know a ref could award a game because of a specific rule.. I doubt 75% of the NFL "knew" it either...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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But still, you are talking about going after a guy that didn't know the rules of the game and suggested an action in the Superbowl that would have cost them the game.
Ask yourself, would you want him had he gone out there and tackled the kick returner and cost the ravens the superbowl?
Really? That's your argument?
The whole argument? No,, but it's part of it yeah.. so I ask you, do you want a guy that doesn't know the rules? I mean, do you wanna pay someone 100 million when he doesn't know the rules..
Besides, this is a moot discussion, it ain't happening.
Donavan McNabb didn't know how Overtime worked... He's likely going to the Hall of Fame..
Flacco didn't know a ref could award a game because of a specific rule.. I doubt 75% of the NFL "knew" it either...
Really, that's your argument? (to quote you) you wanna tell me it's ok because you think someone that didn't know the rules is likely to go to the hall of fame?
Actually, I don't believe McNabb even gets to smell the HOF..
I guarantee you that Montana would have known, same with either Manning or Brady. Hell, I'd bet you that Terry Bradshaw would have known.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What the hell do our records have to do with it? Besides show what we've done without good QB play...
They show you where the team as been drafting. We've had a Top 10 pick in each of the past 5 NFL drafts.
And it shows that the previous front offices have been making bad decisions. Many of you have liked their decisions and urged them on. You folks (and the local media that's hypnotized you) have convinced you that DA was the answer. That Brady Quinn was the answer, that McCoy wasn't the answer, and that Weeden was the answer again. The same ones that told you that Tim Couch wasn't the answer but that Kelly Holcomb was.
I hope to God that this front office and coaching staff pay no attention to the media. If I were Jimmy Haslam, I'd almost refuse to let the coach do interviews with the media - including post-game interviews. If I were Haslam, I'd tell them that I would be doing all the post-game press conferences myself since I am the ones writing the checks.
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McNabb has zero chance of the Hall.
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And it shows that the previous front offices have been making bad decisions. Many of you have liked their decisions and urged them on. You folks (and the local media that's hypnotized you) have convinced you that DA was the answer. That Brady Quinn was the answer, that McCoy wasn't the answer, and that Weeden was the answer again. The same ones that told you that Tim Couch wasn't the answer but that Kelly Holcomb was.
Nice, way to slide that in there...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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It's like giving up the #6 pick in the draft for the #1 pick in the draft, and giving up next years first round pick.
Flacco would be our draft choice this year.
It's not factual, but I can follow the logic behind such a statement. Even at that, he'd still be younger than our first round QB selection from last year.
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So teams should NEVER make trades because people can get hurt?
I didn't make that claim, but I would never advocate for giving up what it is said that the former regime offered and what the Redskins eventually gave up for one player.
I would say that no team (no matter which one it is) should make that kind of trade. Yes.
These types of trades NEVER work out for the team offering the most in exchange.
It didn't work out for the Vikings in the Hershel Walker trade. It didn't work out for the Saints with the Rickey Williams trade. It won't work out in the end for the Redskins either. Sure, it'll make the owner some money but it won't bring ANY NFL Championships to them.
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I was referring to the Denver game...
Of course you were, I was referring to the Super Bowl.
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Baltimore never trailed in the Super Bowl, and SF lost because of bad coaching...
Jim Harbaugh is a bad coach now? That's just a stupid remark!
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If it was so easy to "find a replacement" QB then why haven't we done it?
Have you seen the intelligent quotient for the previous regimes? The smartest one was Butch Davis and his ability to coach at the NFL level evaporated with Al Lerner's death. The team has never recovered from Al Lerner's death. There's hope that the current regime can get the job done.
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Baltimore never trailed in the Super Bowl, and SF lost because of bad coaching...
Jim Harbaugh is a bad coach now? That's just a stupid remark!
Good coaches can make bad coaching decisions..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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And it shows that the previous front offices have been making bad decisions. Many of you have liked their decisions and urged them on. You folks (and the local media that's hypnotized you) have convinced you that DA was the answer. That Brady Quinn was the answer, that McCoy wasn't the answer, and that Weeden was the answer again. The same ones that told you that Tim Couch wasn't the answer but that Kelly Holcomb was.
Nice, way to slide that in there...
I'm put it in there because he was a recent QB that got the throttle from the Cleveland media which convinced a fan base of it.
So, you go on to ask why hasn't the Browns found the answer and then criticize me for pointing out why? So, which government job were you elected to?
The Browns decision-makers have been less than ideal because they've been listening to their hometown media. I sincerely hope that this new group gives the one-fingered salute to the media and by proxy, to the fans. If they don't, we're heading for another 4-12 or 5-11 season.
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Baltimore never trailed in the Super Bowl, and SF lost because of bad coaching...
Jim Harbaugh is a bad coach now? That's just a stupid remark!
Good coaches can make bad coaching decisions..
And referees (on the take?) can swallow whistles too.
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I didn't make that claim, but I would never advocate for giving up what it is said that the former regime offered and what the Redskins eventually gave up for one player.
I would say that no team (no matter which one it is) should make that kind of trade. Yes.
These types of trades NEVER work out for the team offering the most in exchange.
It didn't work out for the Vikings in the Hershel Walker trade. It didn't work out for the Saints with the Rickey Williams trade. It won't work out in the end for the Redskins either. Sure, it'll make the owner some money but it won't bring ANY NFL Championships to them.
Those types of trades NEVER work out for the team offering the most in exchange?
Giving up the farm for a HB ala Hershel Walker and Ricky Williams... that is stupid. Running backs don't carry a team to the Super Bowl anymore. Usually a team with an elite RB, great O line, great D but crappy QB caps out as a 1 and done playoff team. We have seen that plenty of times recently with teams like the Titans with CJ2K and Jeff Fisher and Vikings before and after Favre's 1 great year there. Yes that is a bit of an oversimplification so I can't wait to hear the 5 exceptions that I already knew about
What about the Giants trading up for Eli Manning... how did that work out? And really, there haven't been THAT many tradeups into the top 1-2 spots in recent memory because the old CBA made that so cost prohibitive before the rookie wage scale came to be.
And I'm sorry, but if you think RG3 isn't worth 3 first rounders you are absolutely nuts. I say that confidently even after his injury. Sometimes you have to take some risks. Maybe he is never the same or he constantly gets injured. Either one could easily happen but him and Russell Wilson were both legit franchise QBs as rookies. If we had either player (or Luck, Cam, Kaepernick etc.) we would automatically assume any of those players would continue to improve and get better. It's classic undervaluing of other team's players. Oh and by the way, those new school/mobile QBs have missed a combined 1 game due to injury in all of their careers combined.
If we offered the 'Skins 3 first rounders for RG3 right now they would hang up the phone laughing, and rightly so.
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What about the Giants trading up for Eli Manning... how did that work out?
The Chargers selected Manning and then traded him to NY. Manning's reprobate father, Archie, stated that his son Eli would never sign with San Diego so the Chargers traded him, but they could have stuck to their guns and had Drew Brees on the roster. Yeah, remember him? San Diego gave up on him. Turned out rather nicely for the Saints too.
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Alex Smith maybe. I dont think that will happen as the cost will be high.
I don't know that he's a significant upgrade for what we'd have to trade to get him and the money we'd have to pay him. I'd rather stick with Weeden after he's been tutored by Turner. He's here, he's cheaper and we don't have to trade picks away.
Exactly.
Last year, our rookie QB was shoe-horned into an offense our coach was comfortable with but was ill-suited for his skill set. So this year, we bring in a new coaching staff who prefers running an offense style that is better suited for our QB. So why would we trade for a QB who is not suited for this new offense?
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Legend
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Legend
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The "What If" machine blew up when I put in "What If the Browns had signed Alex Smith last year and not drafted Brandon Weeden?"
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,847 Likes: 159 |
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Alex Smith maybe. I dont think that will happen as the cost will be high.
I don't know that he's a significant upgrade for what we'd have to trade to get him and the money we'd have to pay him. I'd rather stick with Weeden after he's been tutored by Turner. He's here, he's cheaper and we don't have to trade picks away.
Exactly.
Last year, our rookie QB was shoe-horned into an offense our coach was comfortable with but was ill-suited for his skill set. So this year, we bring in a new coaching staff who prefers running an offense style that is better suited for our QB. So why would we trade for a QB who is not suited for this new offense?
Well, that may not even be an option now. NFL.com is saying that the Chiefs and 49ers are close to a deal that would send Smith to KC.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
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Alex Smith maybe. I dont think that will happen as the cost will be high.
I don't know that he's a significant upgrade for what we'd have to trade to get him and the money we'd have to pay him. I'd rather stick with Weeden after he's been tutored by Turner. He's here, he's cheaper and we don't have to trade picks away.
Exactly.
Last year, our rookie QB was shoe-horned into an offense our coach was comfortable with but was ill-suited for his skill set. So this year, we bring in a new coaching staff who prefers running an offense style that is better suited for our QB. So why would we trade for a QB who is not suited for this new offense?
Well, that may not even be an option now. NFL.com is saying that the Chiefs and 49ers are close to a deal that would send Smith to KC.
Good fit.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,409 Likes: 461
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,409 Likes: 461 |
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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Finally SF fans can go back to chanting for David Carr...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Hall of Famer
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If the Ravens gave Flacco the non-exclusive tag, the Browns could, for example, swoop in with $48 million in cap space this year and offer Flacco a 5 year/$100 million deal, with $75 million guaranteed.
I haven't really given much thought to Flacco since I don't think there's any way he leaves the Rats. Why would he leave a superbowl contender, even though it may take a few more years to get back to that level considering their current cap situation, to play a perennial loser facing the possibility of embarrassing himself for a few more bucks.
I do think the Browns should explore that option, however, giving up the kind of money you mention here, and I know it was just an example, is very risky.
Not that he's not talented but anything can happen after a guaranteed $75 million contract.
If, for example, he goes the route of Joe Theismann that's a lot of green given up for nothing. Now where do we stand? Even a lesser injury missing half a season or missing multiple games a couple or a few years in a row would make that amount of money a really bad investment.
He's a superbow MVP playing on a team full of superbowl level talent. We're not anywhere near that level as we try and figure out just where we stand talent-wise. They will take a hit this year and it will likely take a few more years to get back to that level but I'll bet that $75 million that league-wide the overwhelming opinion is that they will reach that level again before the Browns do.
Over investing in a QB, even a very proven QB, is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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Next year he's going to be a Super Bowl MVP QB playing on a team missing his favorite receiver, his Center, and probably 3 or 4 of the better players on defense.
If he came to Cleveland, he could look forward to playing behind one of the best OL in the league, with Trent Richardson at RB, a pair of big, promising WR, and a speedy kid in Benjamin .... plus enough cap room even after that deal to go get a TE and a veteran WR.
I think that the biggest differences between us and Baltimore last year were in the QB play, having that veteran, go to WR, and having a healthy RB. Baltimore allowed 344 points last year, and we allowed 368. It's not like we're a million miles behind them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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