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Just wanted to bring this up from the old thread: Quote:
I'm just glad that the Lakers are making a move, and are back to within 2.5 games of making the playoffs. (so the Cavaliers can swap the Heat pick for the Lakers, if they make it)
Just to note, the Cavs do not HAVE to use the Heat pick this year. They have the option to use their first pick all the way up until 2015 I believe. (They have to take their second pick by 2017 and there has to be two years between trading first rounders)
Now the Cavs ... could ... swap picks this year, which would net them a pick that would be at best #15. But, if they wanted to take a bit of a gamble, there's also this scenario ...
A certain player from a nearby suburb of Cleveland has the option to opt out at the end of the 2014 season. I believe Wade and/or Bosh also have this option as well. If the Miami team were to blow up at the end of the 2014 season, that could potentially leave us with the unprotected rights to a very high 2015 draft pick. Minus a first round pick to turn things around ... the Heat would likely continue to stink well into 2017, where we would also have the rights to what could very well be a another high unprotected first round pick.
Of course, we might just hedge our bets here. If the Lakers do squeak into the playoffs, we could take that swap and draft at #15-#17 this year ... that would make us ineligible to take Miami's pick next year, but the year after would be 2015. If the above scenario plays out, we would still have a shot at potentially one of those "high" Miami picks.
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if we get to swap with the Lakers, then we'll take the pick this year. no reason to take any bigger gamble on that then you have to do. even if LeBron leaves (let's just say he goes to the Lakers to keep things civil), it doesn't mean the Heat will go into the tank. they'd still have Wade & Bosh potentially and be good enough in the East to net us a pick in the 15-20 range anyway.
#gmstrong
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...lots of IFs.
But hey, whateva. I think the Cavs are on the upswing for sure.
I guess it sucks that most analysts are calling this a very down NCAA draft year. We'll see...
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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...lots of IFs.
But hey, whateva. I think the Cavs are on the upswing for sure.
I guess it sucks that most analysts are calling this a very down NCAA draft year. We'll see...
That's probably my biggest issue with "cashing" in one of Miami's picks this year ... sure we'll get a mid-round first rounder, but what exactly are we going to get with that?
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Quote:
Quote:
...lots of IFs.
But hey, whateva. I think the Cavs are on the upswing for sure.
I guess it sucks that most analysts are calling this a very down NCAA draft year. We'll see...
That's probably my biggest issue with "cashing" in one of Miami's picks this year ... sure we'll get a mid-round first rounder, but what exactly are we going to get with that?
Maybe a developmental big like Zeller.
He was a middle 1st rounder ... and he looks like he could become, at least, a capable backup/spot starter ...... or maybe even more. If he adds a little strength, and with some experience, he could become a bigger Andy ...... and that would be pretty good at Center. (especially given the generally poor pool of talent at Center throughout the league)
Not only that ...... but if the Cavaliers have the extra 1st round pick, they may be able to trade it for a pick in a later draft .... or do like they did last year and pool their later picks to move up a bit.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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if we get to swap with the Lakers, then we'll take the pick this year. no reason to take any bigger gamble on that then you have to do. even if LeBron leaves (let's just say he goes to the Lakers to keep things civil), it doesn't mean the Heat will go into the tank. they'd still have Wade & Bosh potentially and be good enough in the East to net us a pick in the 15-20 range anyway.
Does Bosh opt out? Maybe he can get the security with the years, but does he make per year in a new contract what he would in that final year if he doesn't opt out? Smart money says take less the following year but get the multi years back lined up for your future. With this new CBA I can't see him getting superstar money. Not when you can only have 2 big names at the most.
I'm really interested to see what Wade does. I think he could still get good money. His knee seems to be held together with tape, but the guy can still play and the league is still star-driven which keeps his value high. He has praised loyalty with the Heat organization for years. If Lebron opts out and leaves, does he hold up his end of the whole "loyalty" talk?
I think that team could have potential to be lottery team if Lebron and Bosh bolt, Wade stays/leaves/gets hurt, but I don't think it's any kind of sure-thing. Just a possibility. The Cavs look good sitting in that spot though considering the position they were put in at the time.. If everything worked out where the Cavs got better, the Heat got dismantled and that pick turned into a great one, talk about your all time biggest case of sports karma.
Keep in mind Miami was a lotto team with Wade before. They had the worst record going into the 2008 lottery and ended up with pick #2 (Beasley)
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yes, I am assuming Bosh would stick around in my scenario. See if he & Wade can cobble together a decent playoff team and he could recoup his overall NBA status while making more in the season than he likely would on the open market.
#gmstrong
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yes, I am assuming Bosh would stick around in my scenario. See if he & Wade can cobble together a decent playoff team and he could recoup his overall NBA status while making more in the season than he likely would on the open market.
Actually, I guess Bosh could get superstar money, but it would probably be with a lesser team. I'm not entirely sure how that would work out.
If I had to guess I think Lebron is gone, Wade stays, and best guess is that Bosh stays. Maybe all 3 stay. I can't rule out them sticking around, but I am pretty certain that Lebron is opting out, which will make it tough on Miami.
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Quote:
Just wanted to bring this up from the old thread:
Quote:
I'm just glad that the Lakers are making a move, and are back to within 2.5 games of making the playoffs. (so the Cavaliers can swap the Heat pick for the Lakers, if they make it)
Just to note, the Cavs do not HAVE to use the Heat pick this year. They have the option to use their first pick all the way up until 2015 I believe. (They have to take their second pick by 2017 and there has to be two years between trading first rounders)
Now the Cavs ... could ... swap picks this year, which would net them a pick that would be at best #15. But, if they wanted to take a bit of a gamble, there's also this scenario ...
A certain player from a nearby suburb of Cleveland has the option to opt out at the end of the 2014 season. I believe Wade and/or Bosh also have this option as well. If the Miami team were to blow up at the end of the 2014 season, that could potentially leave us with the unprotected rights to a very high 2015 draft pick. Minus a first round pick to turn things around ... the Heat would likely continue to stink well into 2017, where we would also have the rights to what could very well be a another high unprotected first round pick.
Of course, we might just hedge our bets here. If the Lakers do squeak into the playoffs, we could take that swap and draft at #15-#17 this year ... that would make us ineligible to take Miami's pick next year, but the year after would be 2015. If the above scenario plays out, we would still have a shot at potentially one of those "high" Miami picks.
The Cavs don't have any option when to take the Heat picks. The Heat pick is top 10 protected this year, and assuming there is no possible/realistic way that they finish in the bottom 10, we get the Heat 1st round pick this coming draft. The only thing up in the air is whether or not we will be able to or want to swap it, depending on where the Heat and Lakers finish.
Then we have the Heat pick in '15 but I believe that's top 10 protected in '15, '16, and unprotected in '17.
lots of other picks too.
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The Cavs don't have any option when to take the Heat picks. The Heat pick is top 10 protected this year, and assuming there is no possible/realistic way that they finish in the bottom 10, we get the Heat 1st round pick this coming draft. The only thing up in the air is whether or not we will be able to or want to swap it, depending on where the Heat and Lakers finish.
Then we have the Heat pick in '15 but I believe that's top 10 protected in '15, '16, and unprotected in '17.
lots of other picks too.
No ... the Cavs DO have the option of taking one pick from 2013 to 2015 and a second two years after that one until 2017.
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed
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2013 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami's own 2013 1st round draft pick to Cleveland (top-10 protected in the 2013 Draft, top-10 protected in 2014, and unprotected in the 2015 Draft.) [Cleveland - Miami, 7/9/2010]
It's poorly written there, but everything I've read has said that we get the option of two picks between now and 2017. Since you can't have two picks in consecutive years, the first pick will be between now and 2015. The second will be 2 years after that but no later than 2017.
The protections are right though and now I remember why Cleveland might want to take that gamble on the Heat blowing up in 2014 ...
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2015 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami's own 1st round draft pick to Cleveland in the "First Allowable Draft" (top 10 protected until the 2017 draft at which it will be unprotected in the 2017 draft). The First Allowable draft shall be the draft that occurs two years following the year in which Miami satisfies its first obligation to convey a future first round draft pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers. [Cleveland - Miami, 7/9/2010]
That means if we opt to take Miami's pick this year, we'd be looking at nothing better at #15 for that pick. Our second pick would be no better than #10 until 2017. We might not even have the chance to get Miami's pick in 2015 if they blew up the year before (as it's top 10 protected). However if we were to take the gamble ... we could potentially hold off on using our first pick option till 2015 (THAT pick is unprotected in 2015) ... meaning if the Heat blew up, we could be looking at a high lottery pick in 2015. And potentially again in 2017 as they would have missed an entire rebuilding draft two years before.
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99.9999999999999999% sure that they don't get to choose which Miami pick they take. They get Miami's pick this year unless its a top-10 pick, in which case they get it next year (where it is again top-10 protected). The latest it would be is an unprotected 2015 pick. The second pick, then, comes two years later but is also subject to top-10 protection in 2015 and 2016.
Never read or heard anywhere the scenario that you propose.
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Yeah, I think you're right ... I've always read it as having the option to take two picks between now and 2017. I swear I thought I read that somewhere at some point.
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Quote:
Just wanted to bring this up from the old thread:
Quote:
I'm just glad that the Lakers are making a move, and are back to within 2.5 games of making the playoffs. (so the Cavaliers can swap the Heat pick for the Lakers, if they make it)
Just to note, the Cavs do not HAVE to use the Heat pick this year. They have the option to use their first pick all the way up until 2015 I believe. (They have to take their second pick by 2017 and there has to be two years between trading first rounders)
Now the Cavs ... could ... swap picks this year, which would net them a pick that would be at best #15. But, if they wanted to take a bit of a gamble, there's also this scenario ...
A certain player from a nearby suburb of Cleveland has the option to opt out at the end of the 2014 season. I believe Wade and/or Bosh also have this option as well. If the Miami team were to blow up at the end of the 2014 season, that could potentially leave us with the unprotected rights to a very high 2015 draft pick. Minus a first round pick to turn things around ... the Heat would likely continue to stink well into 2017, where we would also have the rights to what could very well be a another high unprotected first round pick.
Of course, we might just hedge our bets here. If the Lakers do squeak into the playoffs, we could take that swap and draft at #15-#17 this year ... that would make us ineligible to take Miami's pick next year, but the year after would be 2015. If the above scenario plays out, we would still have a shot at potentially one of those "high" Miami picks.
Excellent post. Good read with lot's of information, especially for a guy who doesn't follow it all that closely. 
I didn't know any of this stuff.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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It's hard to say whether that's right or not though. There was another post that made it sound like the choice wasn't ours this year, but rather could not be exercised if the Heat were in the Lottery, but otherwise would be used this year. Given the really obtuse and complicated manner in which NBA trades are written, I am waiting for one that precludes a team's ability to utilize a pick based on whether or not it rains on draft day ........ 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Can we finally beat the Bulls tonight? I don't think we have beaten them since that playoff series back in 2010.
The Bulls are no contender, but they play pretty tough D and that always troubles the Cavs. They need to learn how to fight back. They have to start competing in games like these if they want to do anything next year.
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Yeah no kidding. The Bulls have gotten stomped a couple times in their last few games. I hope we're not their slump buster tonight.
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I think that we "can" ..... the question is, "Will this young team finally put together a consistent effort from start to finish that allows them to not only play with a good team, but to beat them?".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That whole "beating the Bulls" thing, yeah, lol nevermind.
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Quote:
That whole "beating the Bulls" thing, yeah, lol nevermind.
Yeah ... maybe not.
However ..... Livingston is a quality backup, and I suspect that Waiters will have a monster game ........ so maybe .......
(Sure I'm being an optimistic homer ...... but whatever) 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'll go bold and say we win tonight. Maybe without Kyrie we play more team basketball.
We need to stop making Boozer and a backup scrub PG look like a monster against us.
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our frontcourt defense is terrible. chicago likes to feed their frontcourt. it's not looking good especially with:
Kyrie Irving DNP-Tanking
#gmstrong
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The Bulls are a fraud team. They will be out in the first round, again.
I find it so funny that Rose's brother is blasting the front office about adding more pieces to help Derrick when Derrick aloofly denied to get into the war to have LBJ, Wade or Bosh (and maybe Dirk) sign on the dotted line to come to Chicago. He didn't need them then....but needs them now.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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The Bulls are a fraud team. They will be out in the first round, again.
They were out in the first round last year because Derrick Rose blew out his knee in game one.
No one wants to play the Bulls in the playoffs with or without Rose. Right now they would play the Knicks and I would not be shocked if they beat them.
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Even with his injury, a #1 seed should be able to beat an #8 seed without their best player. I thought they gave up in that series. Maybe it's just me, but they needed the rest of the team to step up, and nobody did.
As for this years Bulls, I can't get past Nate Robinson and Kirk Hinrich as their starting PGs. I just don't see any team going anywhere with those two scrubs playing important minutes. Not in the playoffs.
As for the Knicks losing to the Bulls, that's assuming the Knicks don't find themselves dropping like a stone too. They both have had a tough run recently. They need Amare to punch more glass.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Yeah, I think you're right ... I've always read it as having the option to take two picks between now and 2017. I swear I thought I read that somewhere at some point.
don't believe everything you read on the internet 
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Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, I think you're right ... I've always read it as having the option to take two picks between now and 2017. I swear I thought I read that somewhere at some point.
don't believe everything you read on the internet
Okay ... you're wrong then! 
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40/8/16 for LeBron.
39/8/7 for Wade.
Holy crap, nobody is beating Miami 4/7 times.
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I think next year LeBron should just use the regular season to try and average a Triple Double..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think next year LeBron should just use the regular season to try and average a Triple Double..
Lebron is an incredible player but I don't know if that's humanly possible with 82 games a year
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Quote:
That whole "beating the Bulls" thing, yeah, lol nevermind.
Yeah ... maybe not.
However ..... Livingston is a quality backup, and I suspect that Waiters will have a monster game ........ so maybe .......
(Sure I'm being an optimistic homer ...... but whatever)
Maybe I'm a realistic homer after all.
Waiters with 25 ..... Livingston with 15 in relief of Irving .......
I think that Waiters is going to progress this year, then make a huge jump next year, much like Thompson did this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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didn't get to see the game due to a late hockey game with a 2 hour nap beforehand. Glad to see I was dead wrong!
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I think next year LeBron should just use the regular season to try and average a Triple Double..
Lebron is an incredible player but I don't know if that's humanly possible with 82 games a year
I have no doubt he could if he wanted to but it might not be what is in the best interest of the team.. and it would require him to stat-whore in games that are out of reach, which he doesn't seem willing to do.
yebat' Putin
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The assists column is the one that will kill your chances.
There's no doubt that Lebron could average more than 10 rebounds a game while staying within the concept of trying to win.
Purposely passing up your scoring chances when you're a top 3 scorer in the league, and depending on others to hit their shots is where it comes up short.
Although with as good as they are right now, he could probably go away from that, and they could still finish with a top 3-4 seed.
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Saw these stats for Dion
23.6 ppg on 60.4% shooting against SAS, Miami, and Chicago
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Saw these stats for Dion
23.6 ppg on 60.4% shooting against SAS, Miami, and Chicago
Yep ..... I like the Waiters pick more and more the more we see from him.
Another win for the Cavaliers, and without Kyrie again. Nice job by the bench again.
Cavaliers are up to 20 wins. I doubt that they can get into playoff position, because they'd have to make up at least 7 wins (and 8.5 games) on the Bucks. I don't see that happening ..... but they could move up to the 9th position in the East. The Sixers currently hold that position, but the Cavaliers are only 3.5 games behind them.
I like the way this team is developing. I knocked Scott earlier this year, but I might have been wrong about him. I love the way Kyrie, Tristan, and Dion are all developing. I think that we have a pair of stars there, and a really, really solid PF in Thompson. I see no reason why he can't become a Carlos Boozer type ..... plus I think that Zeller will take a step forward next year with a positive off-season's work.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Saw these stats for Dion
23.6 ppg on 60.4% shooting against SAS, Miami, and Chicago
Yep ..... I like the Waiters pick more and more the more we see from him.
Another win for the Cavaliers, and without Kyrie again. Nice job by the bench again.
Cavaliers are up to 20 wins. I doubt that they can get into playoff position, because they'd have to make up at least 7 wins (and 8.5 games) on the Bucks. I don't see that happening ..... but they could move up to the 9th position in the East. The Sixers currently hold that position, but the Cavaliers are only 3.5 games behind them.
I like the way this team is developing. I knocked Scott earlier this year, but I might have been wrong about him. I love the way Kyrie, Tristan, and Dion are all developing. I think that we have a pair of stars there, and a really, really solid PF in Thompson. I see no reason why he can't become a Carlos Boozer type ..... plus I think that Zeller will take a step forward next year with a positive off-season's work.
Oh boy. Setting us up for some guy from Akron coming back? 
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I just wanted to add one final though. Luke Walton played one hell of a game tonight. He only scored 5 points, but he had 7 boards and 7 assists ..... the best of which was a no look, between the legs pass behind him to a cutting Ellington for the bucket. I almost think that we should bring him back next year. Varejao is iffy at this point, especially if we draft another big.Gibson and Casspi are history. Selby and Jones are projects that may, or may not have value for this team. We'll probably only add 2 players via the draft, even with the plethora of picks we have ..... so who knows. I really hope that we can manage to keep Speights and Livingston, both of whom I believe are free agents next year. Who knows. One thing I do know is that this off-season, along with next year should be really interesting.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,827
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,827 |
Gibson and Casspi both need to go.
Speights and Livingston need to stay. I think they will, both seem happy on an up and coming team.
Walton seems like a good guy to have around. I like Ellington. We need his outside shooting. Selby/Jones I can take or leave.
We have quite the solid base. Add some points from the SF spot, a big bodied bruiser and someone who can knock down the 3 consistently through FA/Draft and we have something here.
Varejao? Like the guy but too injury prone for my taste. He could be that extra big. I like the energy he can infuse coming off the bench. Will he be happy moving back to a 6th man role? Could we get somebody's 1st for him?
All in all I like how this team is being built.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
A lot of the media folks who follow the Cavs on a day-to-day basis think Speights is gone in the summer. Bottom line is that there are too many teams with too much money to spend, and that he will probably get something that the Cavs don't feel comfortable matching/beating.
I would love for him to stay, he has been a really good fit, and I think we're getting to the point where you want to start acquiring those role player types.
We'll see, those same people seem to think this summer is going to be crazy.
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