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I wouldn't mind seeing Green in Orange & Brown. There. Just thought I'd chime in. 
I would mind seeing Green in Orange & Brown. There. Just thought I'd chime in, again.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I wouldn't mind seeing Green in Orange & Brown. There. Just thought I'd chime in.
I would mind seeing Green in Orange & Brown. There. Just thought I'd chime in, again.
Green in Orange and Brown would remind me quite a bit of Brian Sipe. A smart QB who does not have all the physical atributes but can get the job done.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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Well, you have your own opinion, so now go get your own damn post!! 
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...I'm just trying to get you to see Frye for what he is..if Cleveland had all the weapons it needed , you think Frye has the skills to get the job done
Oh Hell no.. Not yet anyway.. That's the difference between you and I. You must think that Charlie is as good as he's gonna get. I think he still has the ability to improve a whole bunch.
What I DON'T know is if the improvement he ends up being capable of is gonna be enough.. But I think NOW is the time to find out. Not in a year or two when all the other pieces are there to really be a team that people fear..
I can assure you, there will be another Trent Green type guy out there at that point that can help mentor a new young QB... and there will certainly be another young QB available in the draft that's there when we pick either next season or the year after..
WHich by the way, is my only point.. Sometimes people think I'm a Charlie Pimp because of my views on testing him this year..
Actually, that's not really the case. I don't have 100% faith in Charlie,, I just don't. But for all the faults that you point out, some of them can be fixed, others can be compensated for and maybe we have a young kid that can get the job done.. I don't know that, I just wanna find out without commiting the same mistakes we've made in the past..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You must think that Charlie is as good as he's gonna get.
I do. He is only going to grow small amounts at this point.
His physical skills aren't going to get any better and his mental game isn't going to improve so much it will outweigh his physical deficiency.
IMO he is a pretty much a finished product. He isn't like a good bottle of wine that will get better with age. He is like a cookie....he has a limited shelf life than only gets stale from that point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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What I DON'T know is if the improvement he ends up being capable of is gonna be enough.. But I think NOW is the time to find out. Not in a year or two when all the other pieces are there to really be a team that people fear..
If you don't feel if all the improvement he can get doesn't propel him beyond a backup role..think Phil hasn't thought of that?
And see I feel he can improve but there are cetain things I think he'll never overcome..
The fact they are looking at a VET tells me they're going to let Frye/DA and Green battle it out if they aquire him..(yeah right)
Or they are going to draft a rookie , sit him under Green..
No way Charlie can beat out Green and be the starting QB..
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Some of this is true, but... I remember how bad ( and stupid) Brett Favre looked in a LOT of his early games. He ran around like his head was cut off, threw rocket balls into triple coverage, and missed wide open guys. They CAN get better.
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Well, you have your own opinion, so now go get your own damn post!!
Well, you have your own opinion, so let me copy your damn post!! 
All kidding aside, I'm hoping Savage sticks with Frye/Anderson or drafts a new QB (with the #3 pick or lower). I don't want some old vet to "mentor" Frye, battle for the starting spot, or use up cap space to hold a clipboard.
Frye, Anderson, Russell, Quinn, Stanton, Edwards, Smith, Kolb, or Palmer. Some combination of the above names only please. We don't need some old QB that had the stuffing knocked out of him last year and then lost his job to Damon Huard. Build the O-line, build the D-line, get more DB help, find another RB, and pick 3 names from the above QB list. Done.
Carr is a better option than Green right now. Carr is only going to cost the contract money. Green will cost us a draft pick AND contract money. And for the record, I don't want Carr either.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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...Brett Favre... ran around like his head was cut off, threw rocket balls into triple coverage, and missed wide open guys.
That's sounds a lot like the old Brett Farve too, especially the 2005 version (29 INT's).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Dude.....Favre had the physical skills.....Chuck doesn't. You knew by watching Favre he had all it took expect the experience.
It isn't like Chuck is a Bernie Kosar either who has superior brain power.
Elway and Bradshaw looked bad early too.....but they had the physical skills to rely on until they finally got it.
Charlie matured early...that's it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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So your saying toss Frye because he doesn't have Favre's arm or Kosar's mental skills ? You think Favre had both ? He had /has an arm thats it.. Same for Bradshaw who was dumber than a goal post. I remember an interview ESPN had with Bradshaw's replacement at the time. He asked Bradshaw what to look for in certain sets/alignments and who he should check off to if needed.. Bradshaw's response was " How the heck should I know, I just try to throw it high and hard towards Lynn or Stallworth and let them fight for it."
It worked for him, and worked for Favre (for awhile) yet it didn't work for Boller in Baltimore, or George, or many other rocket armed QB's. You think Kosar came into the league with the brains he has now ?
All I'm saying is his arm is good enough when he's not throwing off his back side.
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I do. He is only going to grow small amounts at this point.
Yeah I know you feel that way and that's where you and I differ,,, tell you what, if we keep frye, then I hope to god I'm right,,, otherwise, it doesn't matter.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If you don't feel if all the improvement he can get doesn't propel him beyond a backup role..think Phil hasn't thought of that?
Now wait, that's not what I said. What I said was I didn't know if he could improve enough,, at least not for SURE.. But I think he can otherwise, I'd be 100% with you and Peen on this..
My feeling is that THIS is the year to find out... That's all I'm trying to say..Nothing more.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Elway and Bradshaw looked bad early too.....but they had the physical skills to rely on until they finally got it.
Oddly enough, I lived outside of Pittsburgh when Bradshaw was drafted,, man the people there just hated that guy.. Thought he was dumb as a box of rocks and played about the same... They are kinda happy now of course... Not to say that Frye is the next Bradshaw,, but stranger things have happened..
But that hope is not reason enough to stick with Frye. IF the FO and coaches feel as you do, then it's time for him to go and we quit wasting time..
We'll find out pretty quick now how they REALLY feel about Chuck.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You don't know if he can improve enough , but you think he can other wise?
Either you think he can or you think all the improvement he makes won't help.
The bottom is whether he can ..I don't think he can..I don't have anything against him..looking at him as a football player, I don't think he possesses the stuff that can carry the team.
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You don't know if he can improve enough , but you think he can other wise?
Either you think he can or you think all the improvement he makes won't help.
Oh for Cryin out loud, will you put down the energy drink and reread my post... you keep putting words in my mouth,,, STOP IT! 
Let me try one more time, if you don't get it this time, I don't know what to say,,,
I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE if Charlie can improve enough,, BUT I THINK HE CAN....
Does that do it for you now? 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Look at them instead of the surrounding parts..can YOU say if they started for the Colts (SB champs) they could lead them to a SB?
I don't like the analogy. The Colts are CLEARLY an offense driven team. Would the Colts win a SB with Frye? No. And it only took Manning what? 8 or 9 years running that same offense to win a SB?
Would the Colts win a SB with Eli / Vick / Romo / Grossman / Brunell / Huard / Tavares Jackson / Aaron Brooks / Alex Smith? I would answer NO on all accounts.
Could Frye have lead the Bears to the SB?
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I said I don't think he can..you think he can.. 1,000,000 to 1... '' So he has a chance" Dumb and dumber Well lets see what transpires...
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Point is has anyone doubted Manning's skills which is probably what I shoulda said..
No..you see what he possesses..when we look at Frye what do we see?
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I'll probably regret doing this, but let me try and put this into the right perspective.
Can Frye improve? Yes, without a doubt he can. No, he'll never get a stronger arm, he'll never get bigger hands, and because of the first two, his accuracy will most likely never increase. In that regard, he's done with the physical part of the game.
However, where he absolutely will improve is his mental game. He's only got 16 starts under his belt. That's nothing comin' from freakin' Akron. He can still learn to read a defense better, how to not roll into sacks, how to anticipate routes with players he's not familiar with, and how to not throw wounded ducks up into traffic
Frye, because of his physical limitations, can only be so good. Savage inadvertantly indicted Frye when he came out and said that arm strength is an issue for QB's in Cleveland. Since we now know that Frye has an "ok" arm at best, he's not going to ever be a really good QB for this team.
So when push comes to shove, is Frye at his best going to be as good as Trent Green is right now? The answer is no. Can I say that I know it for sure? No, but at some point common sense has to supercede wishful thinking and low probability. I'll go back to one of my favorite sayings (no, not the hooker, not the jackass, and not the tight pants ) which is that it's smart to deal in what's PROBABLE, not POSSIBLE. It's possible that Frye can become as productive as Trent Green, but it's not probable. So if Frye IS going to get better, he needs to step back and learn. He's proven to all of us that he needs a little more time sitting and learning. Green can buy us some time for a year or three while Frye learns. Then, Frye gets one last shot to show us that he gets it or he's forever a backup.
That's a scenario that makes the most sense for this team. When I first brought up the idea of Green coming to Cleveland, my belief was a 4th round pick would do the trick. I still think that would get it done considering where we're picking in the 4th round. Green gets a new three year deal from us, Frye goes to 2, Anderson to 3 (where he can't do any harm  ) and, suddenly, we have a QB trio that looks GOOD instead of BAD.
By the way, I know one of the pro-Frye mantra's is "let's see what he can do behind a good line." I'm down with that, but I have another one: We know what Green can do behind a good line.  Our line is no longer bad, and we're one Joe Thomas away from the line being GOOD. The line isn't an excuse to ignore the QB position any longer.
It's a smart move. I once asked that Savage consider it. Now that he's done it, I'm asking that he pull the trigger
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Here is a list of all QBs drafted in 2005.
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001 San Francisco Alex Smith sacks 64/387 rating 65.5
024 Green Bay Aaron Rodgers sacks 6/46 rating 43.9
025 Washington Jason Campbell sacks 7/55 rating 76.5
067 Cleveland Charlie Frye sacks 66/397 rating 72.2
069 Oakland Andrew Walter sacks 46/256 rating 55.8
085 Seattle David Greene 0
106 Chicago Kyle Orton sacks 30/190 rating 59.7
121 Carolina Stefan LeFors 0 (out of league)
145 Detroit Dan Orlovsky sacks 1/3 rating 51.8
152 New Orleans Adrian McPherson 0
213 Baltimore Derek Anderson sacks 8/66 rating 63.1
229 Kansas City James Kilian 0
230 New England Matt Cassel sacks 4/16 rating 84.8
250 St. Louis Ryan Fitzpatrick sacks 9/49 rating 58.2
Could ANY of those guys at this stage of their career lead the Colts offense to a SB win? Who from that list of QBs should Savage picked in place of Frye?
**EDIT: Green is the only vet I would be happy to see the Browns sign. I think he is more capable of leading the offense than Charlie.
Last edited by Merth; 03/29/07 04:54 PM.
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Quote:
Here is a list of all QBs drafted in 2005.
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001 San Francisco Alex Smith sacks 64/387 rating 65.5
024 Green Bay Aaron Rodgers sacks 6/46 rating 43.9
025 Washington Jason Campbell sacks 7/55 rating 76.5
067 Cleveland Charlie Frye sacks 66/397 rating 72.2
069 Oakland Andrew Walter sacks 46/256 rating 55.8
085 Seattle David Greene 0
106 Chicago Kyle Orton sacks 30/190 rating 59.7
121 Carolina Stefan LeFors 0 (out of league)
145 Detroit Dan Orlovsky sacks 1/3 rating 51.8
152 New Orleans Adrian McPherson 0
213 Baltimore Derek Anderson sacks 8/66 rating 63.1
229 Kansas City James Kilian 0
230 New England Matt Cassel sacks 4/16 rating 84.8
250 St. Louis Ryan Fitzpatrick sacks 9/49 rating 58.2
Could ANY of those guys at this stage of their career lead the Colts offense to a SB win? Who from that list of QBs should Savage picked in place of Frye?
That Derek Anderson looks pretty good. We should have drafted him.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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HEY! I said I should have just talked about Manning's skills not coyld Frye lead them to a SB..O.K?
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HEY! I said I should have just talked about Manning's skills not coyld Frye lead them to a SB..O.K?
Someone with Manning's skills come along about once every 10 years. But, hey, I am not on the attack dawg. We cool.
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When it boils down to it, can you guys really see Charlie Frye leading us to a Super Bowl?
Maybe, if we have the defense that Grossman had this year in Chicago or the defense that Baltimore had with Difler.
Some reason or another I don't see us having a defense quite that dominant anytime soon sooo, really.....honestly do you think Chuck could lead this team to a Super Bowl.......Honestly, I don't.
While Charlie at some point down the road may be decent and formidable, you can quote me, Chuck will never be a top-tier quarterback ... and let's face it unless you have an elite defense you need a top quality quarterback to win championships in this league.
Keep him around as a backup if you want....i even support that idea....but at some point were going to have to find a quarterback if we truly want to start competing for championships.
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Merth!!!
thanks for reminding me...
my boi David Greene has STILL not taken an nfl snap yet... dang... Hasselback is really messing him up...
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well heck, if you are gonna start making sense, then I'm taking my football and going home Toad, seriously, I hear what you, Attack, Peen and several others are saying.. I'm clearly not very good at expressing myself today.... But ALL I WANT is for Charlie to have a shot behind a decent line with playcalling that works and receivers that don't drop balls... Give him that, if he still can't do it,, Kick him to the curb.. That's it,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dude.....Favre had the physical skills.....Chuck doesn't. You knew by watching Favre he had all it took expect the experience.
It isn't like Chuck is a Bernie Kosar either who has superior brain power.
Elway and Bradshaw looked bad early too.....but they had the physical skills to rely on until they finally got it.
Charlie matured early...that's it.
I'll bet Charlie is a hell of a lot smarter than your hero Russell. What has he done besides beat Brady Quinn. Some of the better Pop Warner teams could do that. And I don't know any QB that is a finished product after a year and a half.
I'm not sure on Charlie either but I'm sure changing Coaches and Qbs every year isn't the answer.And how can you call a guy that completes 65% of his passes inacruate???? Not Russell or Quinn could do that in college. They both completed around 55% and according to most experts if a QB can't complete 60 % in college there is a good chance he will Bust.
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I'll bet Charlie is a hell of a lot smarter than your hero Russell.
First, Russell isn't my hero....and I don't doubt Frye is smarter than Russell. I would also bet you Dorsey is smarter than Chuck. The point is smarts isn't what usually wins for you in this league.
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What has he done besides beat Brady Quinn. Some of the better Pop Warner teams could do that.
When someone makes a bonehead comment like that I even wonder why I waste my time. Duty, you could play the 3 best Pop warner teams...33 on 11 against Notre Dame and I know where my money goes.
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And I don't know any QB that is a finished product after a year and a half.
Couch was finished after a year and a half....he never improved.
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And how can you call a guy that completes 65% of his passes inacruate????
I don't think I did.
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They both completed around 55% and according to most experts if a QB can't complete 60 % in college there is a good chance he will Bust.
If you have the names of some of these experts bring them on.....and anyway....Russell completed 492 of 796 passes as a college QB.....62%
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Merth!!!
thanks for reminding me...
my boi David Greene has STILL not taken an nfl snap yet... dang... Hasselback is really messing him up...
Mark this down, I thought you would never bring him up
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I do have to say that it would be interesting picking up a FA QB with blatantly grey hair.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I do have to say that it would be interesting picking up a FA QB with blatantly grey hair.
Grey hair is a fashion statement now 
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I guess I better ditch the blonde then. Hehe.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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First, Russell isn't my hero....and I don't doubt Frye is smarter than Russell. I would also bet you Dorsey is smarter than Chuck. The point is smarts isn't what usually wins for you in this league.
Sorry but I have to just throw this out there. But by no means am I defending Frye.
2 of the better QB's in Browns history got it done mostly with their smarts. One was weak armed, the other had the worst mechanics in the history of the position and they were both winners and loved by us all, Brian Sipe and Bernie Kosar. Granted both were relatively accurate passers but each had their short-comings.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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Just clicking, dawg.
I'd rather draft Brady Quinn and let him start right away then bring in a 36-year-old statue.
Jeff Gracia, Trent Dilfer, Trent Green, holy god call social security. We haven't had a QB start two season openers in a row in a long time.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I like Green a lot. But there is no way that I would give up anything higher than a 5th for a 36 yr old QB. The first 4 picks as far as I am concerned are sacred.
My eyes are firmly planted on Thomas or one of the Guards (Blaylock, Grubbs or Sears) at the top of the second to fix the OL.
Then and only then would Green stand a chance in Cleveland.
As for Frye, I just don't have the negative conviction that most Browns fans have. I call it Timmyitis. I think it is far too easy to lump the shortcomings of any rookie or 2nd year QB not named Marino into the he needs to improve category. We don't kwow the full story but I saw a QB that still has potential, and simply needs a better team around him.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Thats a good point but I really think as fans we discredit the importance of having good veterans at some positions to tutor the younger players.
It's just my opinion but i'd rather have Green, Frye, and DA than Quinn and those guys.
Green may be a statue and getting older but he won't have a problem finding Edwards, JJ, and Winslow. His recievers were horrible in KC but he still could throw for 4000 yds. The only thing different in KC was the all pro o-line and all universe running backs they had....But....I firmly believe with JJ and Edwards he should be able to have a great year and really show Charlie a thing or two. Having a veteran around is the best thing for the WR's and for the young QB's.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
Interesting stat I read in an article.
Last year Trent Green had a 77.4 passer rating last year, his lowest since 2001. HIS FIRST YEAR WITH THE CHIEFS
If we do by chance bring the guy into Cleveland...would it take a year for him to put up good numbers?
It makes me wonder
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,199 |
Quote:
Some of this is true, but... I remember how bad ( and stupid) Brett Favre looked in a LOT of his early games. He ran around like his head was cut off, threw rocket balls into triple coverage, and missed wide open guys. They CAN get better.
that's funny cause he still does that... except he doesn't have the rocket arm he used to
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns interested in Trent Green
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