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IMO unless he makes huge improvements in many areas, Weeden needs to be preparing to ride the bench...
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IMO unless he makes huge improvements in many areas, Weeden needs to be preparing to ride the bench...
he needs to improve a ton, yes. but, who are we going to start ahead of him?
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IMO unless he makes huge improvements in many areas, Weeden needs to be preparing to ride the bench...
he needs to improve a ton, yes. but, who are we going to start ahead of him?
Great question. At this point, Weeden was given the starting role last year as Colt publicly indicated he had zero to no reps with the first stringers. This year by the looks of it, he'll be given it yet again due to lack of depth/a better option.
My problem with Weeden is he has shown the same mistakes throughout the season displaying inability to learn and improve despite all his so-called "hard work he's put in". Now can we contribute this to coaching? Perhaps, but even the BEST coach can't spin chicken salad out of chicken crap. Upside is there, just hasn't been unleashed and perhaps never will be. Think we all know it takes more than a cannon arm to be successful. Especially when rookie QB's are coming into the NFL and making huge splashes (especially his draft class) - and he's still trying to learn the fundamentals.
Point is he is a starter here with a team full of lack lusting QB's, he'd be a third stringer on any other team at best. At his progress rate, who's to say Colt or even Thad Lewis WOULDN'T be a better option???????? Of course, JMO.
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Considering that McCoy does absolutely nothing well ..... I see no reason to even discuss him.
If we could somehow force teams to only play soft zones, then he might be OK. Unfortunately, once teams play pressure/man cover, he falls apart.
At least Weeden can create big plays in the passing game. He also has shown some promise. He needs improvement, no question about it ...... but McCoy has shown almost nothing at all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I like Colt BUT, He won't be here this year ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Weeden no matter how you slice and dice him is no sure thing. So competition is needed.
In regards to Geno Smith he reminds of a streaky NBA shooter. He can light it up but he can also go cold.
In the games I have watched (four in regular season). He made plays that I just went WOW. Then he would miss a wide open receiver by a mile and make you ???
He has all the physical tools. Good size and he stands tall. Speed and mobility. But he is a pocket passer and lacks true elusiveness like Russell Wilson.
He can make the deep throws when "on" but he can be inconsistent. Accuracy, well at the end of the day he posted 70%+ completion.
From all I have read or heard he is a hard worker and will put in the time to be the best player he can be. That is a very good thing. He will need coaching.
The WVA offense was limited. Geno was a one read ( on occasion 2 reads)pony. Did not face competition like the SEC.
Like Weeden he struggled under pressure. Footwork is fine when given time. Throws a nice tight spiral. Good quick live arm.
Leadership. I saw the OK game. They were behind. Geno was working the sidelines encouraging the players. I liked that a lot. He seems to be able to command the huddle.
There is plenty to like about Geno. All you need seems to be there.
However, I do hold some nagging doubts. I do not see what I saw in Luck or Griffin. Apparently no one else does either.
In the end you have to solve the QB position. Weeden may or may not make it. So you have to bring in competition. Geno would be under no pressure to play right away. Which is helpful in any case. He has the potential to be a complete quarterback but he will require patience. Unlike Weeden there is time to develop him.
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I like Colt BUT, He won't be here this year ... JMHO
And the fact that he's due $2.5 million in his contract just adds fuel to the fire. As they say at Chicago White Sox games...."He Gone!"
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I like some things with Weeden, hate some things with Weeden but the bottom line is Lombardi does not believe in the guy and will be looking for his replacement. He may be our QB for the next 10 years but he is damn sure gonna have to earn it.
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I like Colt BUT, He won't be here this year ... JMHO
And the fact that he's due $2.5 million in his contract just adds fuel to the fire. As they say at Chicago White Sox games...."He Gone!"
I was wondering what his salary number was this year, man there is NO WAY they pay him that, thanks Memphis 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I like Colt BUT, He won't be here this year ... JMHO
And the fact that he's due $2.5 million in his contract just adds fuel to the fire. As they say at Chicago White Sox games...."He Gone!"
I was wondering what his salary number was this year, man there is NO WAY they pay him that, thanks Memphis
Technically, is $2.375 but that's still a lot for a backup in a vertical style offense.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Yea, the money is too much and he hasn't got the arm for this kind of offense ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Point is he is a starter here with a team full of lack lusting QB's, he'd be a third stringer on any other team at best. At his progress rate, who's to say Colt or even Thad Lewis WOULDN'T be a better option???????? Of course, JMO.
Before getting into the rest, I fully believe that we need to either get a veteran or draft pick to push Weeden. He was not good enough last season to just hand the reigns and hope for the best.
I would say that Colt nor Thad are better options, but that's JMO too 
Hard to measure true progress rate during the season. I was certainly hoping to see something though, yes.
He very well may be the starter on some other teams. At least in competition to be starter:
JAX
Jets
Bills
Titans
Arizona
Minnesota (Ponder likely wins but still a question)
StL (I mean, does Fisher really still believe in Bradford?)
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StL (I mean, does Fisher really still believe in Bradford?)
Bradford in his third season (age 25) went 7-8-1 and had 3,702 passing yards with 21 TDs and 13 INTs. He had a crappy offensive line and crappy receiving group. What's not to believe?
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StL (I mean, does Fisher really still believe in Bradford?)
Bradford in his third season (age 25) went 7-8-1 and had 3,702 passing yards with 21 TDs and 13 INTs. He had a crappy offensive line and crappy receiving group. What's not to believe?
3rd season Bradford: 59% 231yds/game 21TD 13INT YPA 6.7 82QBrating (all career highs)
rookie Weeden: 57% 225yds/game 14TD 17INT YPA 6.5 72.6QBrating
I'm not saying Weeden would win the competition, but I think there would be a competition. And, if Bradford is considered a lock to start after working his way up to get there in year3, then perhaps we are being too hard on Weeden.
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People will say it's not a factor, but it obviously is -- Weeden's age. All the arguments have been made, but it boils down to this, is Weeden the guy? Can he be the guy? If he can't, do you really want to invest resources in a league average 30 year old QB?
Bradford has three seasons under his belt and he doesn't turn 26 till November.
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People will say it's not a factor, but it obviously is -- Weeden's age. All the arguments have been made, but it boils down to this, is Weeden the guy? Can he be the guy? If he can't, do you really want to invest resources in a league average 30 year old QB?
Bradford has three seasons under his belt and he doesn't turn 26 till November.
yes, it would be taken into account and likely be the tiebreaker. but, coaches also realize that they won't be around in Weeden's mid-30s if they don't have a starting QB now. best guy "should" start.
his age was a reason to not draft him especially that early (whoops), it is a reason to make sure we are pushing him and have alternatives in place should he falter (fingers-crossed), but his age is a FO-decision. I would hope that once it gets to August, the coaches let the best players play regardless of contracts, age, etc.
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I would hope that once it gets to August, the coaches let the best players play regardless of contracts, age, etc.
I think that's what everyone would hope for.
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I would hope that once it gets to August, the coaches let the best players play regardless of contracts, age, etc.
I think that's what everyone would hope for.
would be a nice change.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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If we could somehow force teams to only play soft zones, then he might be OK.
There's one way, but it involves allowing your opponent to be up by 10+ points in the fourth quarter...
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If we could somehow force teams to only play soft zones, then he might be OK.
There's one way, but it involves allowing your opponent to be up by 10+ points in the fourth quarter...
it worked for the Colts last year 
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Ah, now I see why so many want McCoy to be the starter.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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We are in a difficult position regarding evaluating our QBs.
I think our offense of 2011 n 2012 were 2 of the worst offenses I've seen in the NFL. Just GOSH AWFUL...so at first after the 2011 season I was like Colt sucks sorry I like the kid but he was terrible. Then I saw the 2012 season our OL was better we got better stars Little caught on mid-season n really became a solid WR. Gordon felt like a rookie future #1 like we never had before. Watson, Trent. Our offense still was Awful...Colt was awful...Weeden was awful.
I came to a conclusion maybe its not the young QBs...maybe we should not evaluate them too much on their ONE Season in this ridiculous system. The more I studied the system I was like Man this sucked. So I go back to Colt as a nothing rookie didn't take any reps with the starters...pressed into service cause Delhomme n Snake Wallace went down. Say what you will of Daboll fact is he was a little imaginative he went with what he had. But he still stretched the field in his O...something Shurmurs O didn't remotely do. Colt actually looked good. he looked very promising as a rookie until he hurt his ankle an then there was a change in his game. It effected his footwork n his mobility.
I was so hopped about Colt who showed so much as a rookie now he was going to go into a WCO a system that is supposed perfect for his Throwing skills. Then we had our first Preseason game n we only used the offense part of the play book that Colt was familiar with in Camp Colt, against Green Bay I think. I remember exclaiming...man o man now that is what an offense looks like. That was Colt the same Colt who in 3 months was stinking it up. Which told me in hind sight...maybe when Colt is comfortable he isn't that bad at all. 2010 he just had fun. 2011 Camp Colt is was all him...First preseason game dummied down Colt chosen plays we looked GREAT!!!
Then When the real offense was put in...  Colt became more n more uncomfortable.
Then Weeden...was sloppy as we threw too much of the Play book at him....he started to get comfortable n then I think as more pressure was put on the coaching staff the pressure was put on Weeden...how does a rookie QB get put in a comfortable position when the main thing stressed to him was we got this congested system with multiple routes...he has to make a quick n correct decision...OH n DON'T THROW AN INT. Now there is a comfort zone for a kid...and it showed. Accuracy his strong suit just wasn't much evident.
Long story short... uhhhh too late for that. I'd think both Could very well be good QBs. Norv n Chud have a history of getting players/QBs in a comfort zone. Accentuating their skills n building confidence on that...rather than forcing them into a system to a anal retentive level. That I saw the last two season.
In Shurmur's defense...I wonder if that was all Holmgren??? I know he said he was not involved. But I'm sorry. Game 1-28 in 2011/12...Holmgren leaves n completely...n all of a sudden we see the Wildcat...games 1-28 not once did we run a Wildcat play...Game 29 we see it n it got some success the few times we ran it. So then n only then I'm even thinking maybe Shurmur's hands were tied - maybe that's why we went with him cause we had Ensign Pulver with somebody else pulling the strings  just some inner thoughts...no proof just some Sherlock Holmes deducing. Neither being important in the QB thing.
All I know...Young QB not comfortable...he will Suck!
Young QB comfortable his talent will shine. Or Lack of talent.
This year I'd like to get a good look at Weeden n if possible Colt as well!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think our offense of 2011 n 2012 were 2 of the worst offenses I've seen in the NFL
and let's not forget 2009 or 2010 as well. and 2008 wasn't exactly high-powered (other than the MNF game)
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I think our offense of 2011 n 2012 were 2 of the worst offenses I've seen in the NFL
and let's not forget 2009 or 2010 as well. and 2008 wasn't exactly high-powered (other than the MNF game)
the diff? in 2008 and 2010 i could see what they were trying to do. in 2011 and 2012 i still cant figure out what they were trying to do. notice i left out 2009?
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In all honesty...08, 09 n 2010 our talent level was pretty poor. I actually liked the offense on 2010...Good Red Zone offense. Enough to beat the Saints n Pats it did change when Colt hurt his ankle too. Google Colt McCoy TD pass to Royal...you forget that imaginative play...heck I've built about 40 plays off of that formation lol 
But our offensive talent level was poor to horrible...we won freaking games in 09 throwing 9 passes...Another gaining 28/9 yards? in the air. Who does that. 2012...with Pinkston coming back - Lava in his 2nd season starting...FINALLY a Kick butt RT! Mack n Joe T good to excellent! Trent stud RB. Little, Gordon, Watson - only talent negatives was a rookie QB, collective youth/inexperience n sucky FB play so that we benched him n went to 2 TE when we had to.
No comparison of talent...2009 n 2012...Why I praise the Mangini coaching staff. Why I praise Heckert as a Personnel guy...Why my signature now comical...Did excite me for a nano second.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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Yeah, McCoy's "improvement" at the end of games was due more in part to teams backing off and playing soft zones than anything else.
Seems to be a popular sentiment around here. I disagree.
I was at the Miami game a couple of years ago and the Fish were destroying us in al phases, but kept settling for FGs. It was late in the 4th quarter and Colt gets the ball w/a long field. He improvised. He created plays. He drove us to the win. And that is not the only example.
I am not saying Colt is the guy, but he performs much better under pressure than Weeden. And to say that McCoy does nothing well is simply not true. The guy can make plays out of nothing. Again, not saying he is very good, but he isn't nearly as pathetic as Weeden.
tab: I hear you on the coaching, but I'm sorry, both guys have serious limitations in their games. Weeden reads coverages way too slow, has zero pocket presence, and his anticipation skills are nonexistant.
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Yeah, McCoy's "improvement" at the end of games was due more in part to teams backing off and playing soft zones than anything else.
Seems to be a popular sentiment around here. I disagree.
I was at the Miami game a couple of years ago and the Fish were destroying us in al phases, but kept settling for FGs. It was late in the 4th quarter and Colt gets the ball w/a long field. He improvised. He created plays. He drove us to the win. And that is not the only example.
I am not saying Colt is the guy, but he performs much better under pressure than Weeden. And to say that McCoy does nothing well is simply not true. The guy can make plays out of nothing. Again, not saying he is very good, but he isn't nearly as pathetic as Weeden.
tab: I hear you on the coaching, but I'm sorry, both guys have serious limitations in their games. Weeden reads coverages way too slow, has zero pocket presence, and his anticipation skills are nonexistant.
You're starting to sound a lot like me in regards to McCoy & Weeden.
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You're starting to sound a lot like me in regards to McCoy & Weeden.
Uh-oh! 
That's not going to make you popular around here. I'm probably the most despised person here. I think I wear it as a badge of honor.
Oh! And welcome back!
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We'll agree to disagree.
McCoy did OK at the start of the year in 2011 ..... for a couple of games. However, we played from behind a lot after those couple of opening games .... and the only time we consistently moved the ball was against soft zones on games that were already all but decided.
I remember the Raiders game that year, where they were up by a couple of scores. (24-10) They backed off, trading yards for time off the clock. Against a very soft deep zone, McCoy drove the team down the field for a quick TD. That made the score 24-17. We then recovered an onside kick. We had the ball with 1:06 left, at the Oakland 49, down by 7.
The Raiders then tightened up their coverages, McCoy managed to go 1-4 for 7 yards, (the final 3 plays all being short incompletions) and we turned the ball over on downs so the Raiders could kneel the clock away.
McCoy is not a difference maker no matter how you stretch the phrase. (at least not in a positive manner)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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No problem w/disagreeing.
Again, I am not saying he is great. I am simply saying I have seen games where he willed his team to scores late in close games.
He probably won't be here anyway, so it's not a big deal.
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I was at the Miami game a couple of years ago and the Fish were destroying us in al phases, but kept settling for FGs. It was late in the 4th quarter and Colt gets the ball w/a long field. He improvised. He created plays. He drove us to the win. And that is not the only example.
It is though, because that TD throw to Cribbs to win the game was his best and most clutch throw I've seen him make...he never repeated anything similar to it though
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I am not saying Colt is the guy, but he performs much better under pressure than Weeden.
"Wow" is all I'm going to say on this
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And to say that McCoy does nothing well is simply not true. The guy can make plays out of nothing. Again, not saying he is very good, but he isn't nearly as pathetic as Weeden.
That's mostly because he didn't or wasn't able to execute the plays he was supposed to...anyone who trashes Weeden for holding the ball for too long and then turn around and say McCoy "makes plays out of nothing" is revealing an ugly agenda, because it's naive rhetoric at best, but since I know you're smart enough my money is on good old fashioned hypocrisy
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anyone who trashes Weeden for holding the ball for too long and then turn around and say McCoy "makes plays out of nothing" is revealing an ugly agenda, because it's naive rhetoric at best, but since I know you're smart enough my money is on good old fashioned hypocrisy
Cool it w/the insults. Talk football w/me or don't talk! You aren't even comparing the same thing. Colt also holds the ball too long. They both check down too often. The difference is that Weeden will take the sack or fling it out of bounds while Colt will try to buy time in the pocket or run for yardage.
Are you really freaking telling me you haven't noticed that?
One more time, I am NOT saying Colt is the answer. It just bugs me when people bend the truth.
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anyone who trashes Weeden for holding the ball for too long and then turn around and say McCoy "makes plays out of nothing" is revealing an ugly agenda, because it's naive rhetoric at best, but since I know you're smart enough my money is on good old fashioned hypocrisy
Cool it w/the insults. Talk football w/me or don't talk! You aren't even comparing the same thing. Colt also holds the ball too long. They both check down too often. The difference is that Weeden will take the sack or fling it out of bounds while Colt will try to buy time in the pocket or run for yardage.
Are you really freaking telling me you haven't noticed that?
One more time, I am NOT saying Colt is the answer. It just bugs me when people bend the truth.
Ah, the board is heating up a bit! Who knows the full potential of either Weeden or McCoy? Both were "raised" in Shurmer's offence (or lack thereof)...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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anyone who trashes Weeden for holding the ball for too long and then turn around and say McCoy "makes plays out of nothing" is revealing an ugly agenda, because it's naive rhetoric at best, but since I know you're smart enough my money is on good old fashioned hypocrisy
Cool it w/the insults. Talk football w/me or don't talk! You aren't even comparing the same thing. Colt also holds the ball too long. They both check down too often. The difference is that Weeden will take the sack or fling it out of bounds while Colt will try to buy time in the pocket or run for yardage.
Are you really freaking telling me you haven't noticed that?
One more time, I am NOT saying Colt is the answer. It just bugs me when people bend the truth.
Ah, the board is heating up a bit! Who knows the full potential of either Weeden or McCoy? Both were "raised" in Shurmer's offence (or lack thereof)...
Ahh,, Truth,, So damn refreshing LOL
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Colt also holds the ball too long. They both check down too often. The difference is that Weeden will take the sack or fling it out of bounds while Colt will try to buy time in the pocket or run for yardage.
Are you really freaking telling me you haven't noticed that?
One more time, I am NOT saying Colt is the answer. It just bugs me when people bend the truth.
Well, I thought you were doing that too, as I saw Colt throw it at his C butt on 4th down in a 3p game....or to the ground because "his OL needed rest", remember?
I HAVE noticed that Weeden did what you said, he was a rook and it was to be expected, but I saw at least as much if nor more of that during 2011 with Colt in his 2nd season. Now, they both may have been "Shurmured", we will never know, but I can confidently say that I didn't see a worse QB in the pocket in Weeden...at least he didn't take his eyes from downfield as much and as soon as Colt did and I know for sure that I saw way more competent NFL throws from Weeden 2012 than McCoy 2011
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Since this thread is being bumped & the QB thread is sinking..... Matt Moore will remain a Dolphin No competition for Weeden from him.
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So Moore remains a Dolphin! I thought that was the most likely (and desirable?) competition for Weeden. I know the new FO keeps a tight lid on their plans, but it is very quiet. Anybody get the feeling there is a blockbuster deal in the works?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
So Moore remains a Dolphin! I thought that was the most likely (and desirable?) competition for Weeden. I know the new FO keeps a tight lid on their plans, but it is very quiet. Anybody get the feeling there is a blockbuster deal in the works?
There is no blockbuster deal possible at the QB position.
LACKLUSTER on the other hand...
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Legend
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Legend
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Ytown...you are Right...and Wrong at the same time in your discussion about Colt. 
2010 - his stats was from drives in the regular offense.
2011 - The Offense was so so stagnant n Colt not effective that we would fall behind n then last minute in the 1st half or most of the 4th qtr. We would go with Shotgun n Spread. With the opponent with a pretty good lead playing a soft D. Colt would pick them apart with hardly any pressure n hitting the time consuming underneath routes. Where he would accumulate the vast majority of his stats.
So 2011 you are correct.
2010...Sorry no. The kid moved the ball and competed with some well executed drives against competitive defenses.
JMHO - Vers...not worth it. Some people are just naturally insecure. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Weeden Prepares For Competition
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