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Quote:
more heavily than most teams have.
We do have two first rounders. True...gee just curious how many First rounders did the Ravens have? 49ers? most teams???
Playmakers??? I think we are set assuming Gordon n Little keep on progressing - at WR
Trent at RB you think we need more?
Pass rusher extraordinaire - no complaint from me!!!
Franchise QB still uncertain that is for sure.
OL is fine....best one we have ever had. But I believe it is possible to make this UNIT Awesome. The mention of Warmack was if he came out showing himself as ELITE which he did not.
New guys...Joe T, Mack, Schwartz excellent picks from our last 3 Personnel guys. Lots of Chances on more impact positions...heck throughout our First 2 rounds since 1999. New guys want to play it safe with their First ever pick...with all the Risk n Raw picks of this up front draft??? As mentioned thought seriously it could of been their first pick. We got a lot of weapons here...No reason not to go Awesome on the OL n get the most out of the talent. Of course got to be right place, right time kind of thing. I hope we never pass up on an Upgrade in a BPA area.
Draft picks...are economical even first rounders. Its the 2nd contract that become expensive. But that is with only guys who are studding out.
Again...me its Ansah or Jones. Was thinking about what the actual pickers would do.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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We have 2 first rounders, a high 2nd round pick, and a pair of 3rd round picks on our OL. Right now, with Lauvao and Greco at the Guards, the lowest pick we have playing is Lauvao who was taken 92nd overall in 2010. Greco was a 3rd round pick of the Rams. (65th overall) Thomas and Mack were each 1st round picks, and Schwartz was just outside of the 1st round at 37th overall.
That is more than most teams have invested on their OL.
Many teams have UDFA at Guard. Some have UDFA RT. Several have UDFA at C. We have 3rd rounders or better across the board. (and a 5th rounder in Pinkston) That's a substantial investment. We need difference makers. We need people who can score. We need difference makers on defense. We need players who can stop the opposition from scoring.
Our OL is fine. It's time to invest in difference makers.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We do have two first rounders. True...gee just curious how many First rounders did the Ravens have? 49ers? most teams???
Ravens
Bryant McKinnie 1st Rd (7th) 2002
Kelechi Osemele 2nd Rd (60th) 2012
Matt Birk 6th Rd (173rd) 1998
Marshal Yanda 3rd Rd (89th) 2007
Michael Oher 1st RD (23rd) 2009
Niners
Joe Staley 1st Rd (28th) 2007
Mike Iupati 1st Rd (17th) 2010
Jonathan Goodwin 5th Rd (154th) 2002
Alex Boone UDFA 2009
Anthony Davis 1st Rd (11th) 2010
NE has 2 1st, a 2nd and 2 udfa
Falcons 1 1st, 2 2nds, 7th and udfa
Last edited by Pdawg; 03/06/13 03:32 PM.
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If we solidify our OG position we could have the top OL in the NFL, at least top 2-3 ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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j/c Greco reaches agreement with Browns BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns have reached a long-term agreement with offensive lineman John Greco, the team announced Tuesday afternoon. BEREA, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns on Tuesday agreed to terms on a five-year contract with offensive lineman John Greco, the team announced. “One of our goals,” said CEO Joe Banner, “is whenever possible to develop and keep our own players. We’re glad in this case that it worked out, and was mutually beneficial.” “John is a solid, all-around teammate, on and off the field,” said Head Coach Rob Chudzinski. “He was given an opportunity to play last year and really showed well. He’s respected in the locker room for his approach, consistency and team-first attitude.” Greco, a 6-4, 315-pound veteran in his sixth NFL season out of Toledo, is now signed through the 2017 season. He has seen action in 55 career contests with 14 starts. In 2012, he appeared in 14 games, including a career-high 10 starts, all at left guard. Last season, the Youngstown, Ohio, native was a part of an offensive line that helped pave the way for Trent Richardson, who rushed for a 950 yards, and protected for Brandon Weeden, who threw for 3,385 yards, both franchise records among rookies. Originally selected by St. Louis in the third round (65th overall) of the 2008 draft, Greco was traded to Cleveland prior to the start of the 2011 season. http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...90-098d479ed38fthis was a no brainer. get our best guard signed up.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Greco played really well last year, I hope he continues.
Now, let's figure out the best guy for that other OG slot.
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Interested to see the figures on this deal. I don't expect monster numbers here. At minimum, this solidifies depth and tells us Greco is key to the line.
So I'll assume Greco is the starting LG, Lava Man at RG going into camp?
Tackles are tackles.
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Lauvao should have the edge at camps opening, but we have to hope that Pinkston is fully healthy and ready to give him a run there too.
also, I am hoping this is a sign that we are also negotiating with Alex Mack.
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Lauvao should have the edge at camps opening, but we have to hope that Pinkston is fully healthy and ready to give him a run there too.
also, I am hoping this is a sign that we are also negotiating with Alex Mack.
I give lava a 50/50 chance of being on the team game 1. just got to hope pink is good enough.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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In the last camps which was more getting down to business.
Pinkston was said to be only playing LG with the 2nd team. Greco only playing LG with the 1st team...and Lava only playing RG with the 1st team.
You guys just refuse to give Lava any respect...wanting wishing for Pinkston to win the job...lol 
I'm good with Greco at LG n Lava at RG...looks very decent to me...an OL to grow old with. 
JMHO - curious how it will be set up at Training camp as far as the depth chart.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Practice Squad
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Gotta luv the bitching about competition, it's been a long time sine these type of discussions have actually meant something. It is usually about hoping and praying that some FA or 5th rounder pans out and doesn't kill us
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I give lava a 50/50 chance of being on the team game 1.
Wrong again (or as always)
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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when they both played, I thought Pinkston was better, but Lauvao has had a year to get better while Pinkston has been hurt.
I don't really care who wins, I just want them to be good.
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I did a lot of film study on Pinkston early in the season and what I saw scared me. At times, Pinkston had no clue what he was doing.
...one example that stuck out in my mind...pass play with no one over Pinkston..at the snap, Pinkston chooses to step to the outside, double teaming the DE who Joe Thomas is handling by himself with no problem..thus no need for help.
...as a result, Pinkston leaves a huge unprotected hole and gets burned by a delayed blitz and our QB gets creamed...
Mental mistakes such as this can change a team's season, if the result is a season ending injury for a QB or RB.
In defense of Pinkston...the man played 4 yrs of RT and LT at Pitt...never playing OG. Pinkston did a decent job filling in for Steinbach his rookie season but he is an OT learning to play OG...and the jury is still out on Pinkston as he lost his starting job to Greco and now is forced to compete with Lauvao for a starting job.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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... leaves a huge unprotected hole and gets burned by a delayed blitz and our QB gets creamed...
I don't remember that particular play, but I do remember a very similar instance last game of the season, a gaff by Ryan Millar filling in at LG. (This was initially brought up by Vers quite a while ago). On two successive plays, Millar helps Mack with pass block, and a delayed blitz gets McCoy hammered. Was this due to mental mistakes or our pass blocking scheme? I'm asking because I don't know...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Was this due to mental mistakes or our pass blocking scheme? I'm asking because I don't know...
IMO, mental mistakes and lack of experience playing the position.
Miller hasn't had a lot of starting experience and defenses recognize when there is someone new playing a position on the OL...good DCs will bait a new OLineman to see if he knows what he is doing.
...it sounds like the DC realized the Browns had a fresh face playing OG and took advantage of him.
In the case you site, there is no way to know what the OLine call was by our center...could be that Miller missed his assignment because he didn't catch or understand Alex Mach's OL call.
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Quote:
In the last camps which was more getting down to business.
Pinkston was said to be only playing LG with the 2nd team. Greco only playing LG with the 1st team...and Lava only playing RG with the 1st team.
You guys just refuse to give Lava any respect...wanting wishing for Pinkston to win the job...lol
I don't remember it that way. I do remember that being the case in one report, but there were other reports that said something quite different. It wasn't that long ago, tab.
And some of you guys act like Lava Man is a sibling. Always rushing to his defense. Why would it bother you if Greco and Pinky are the starters? Seriously.........why?
I could care less who starts. I want the best on the field. I have no personal interest in this. Oh, he's gotta start so I don't look stupid on a message board. 
I do think that Greco will be our LG and Lava our RG. Pinky will be the back-up. But, I am not going to get upset if it doesn't play out that way. Sheesh.
Oh.........and 32---that was all on Miller. The scheme wasn't an issue or that type of thing would have been happening all year.
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and the jury is still out on Pinkston as he lost his starting job to Greco
Greco took a starting job yes, but Pinkston had beat him out in preseason and Greco only got to start after a Pinkston injury. once Greco got his shot, he sure made the most of it. you make it sound like Pinkston was benched.
so, that leaves Pinkston and Lauvao fighting for the 'other' job. as long as the OL keeps getting better, I'm not complaining when this happens. it's a good thing.
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You're right about that. Pinky did win the starting job over Greco. He lost it due to his illness.
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when they both played, I thought Pinkston was better, but Lauvao has had a year to get better while Pinkston has been hurt.
I don't really care who wins, I just want them to be good.
+ 1 on everything ya said.
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yep. as far as moving them around, I had read the same as Eo (final slots were as I posted). easily could have been just random too though. we'll find out soon enough though (where they play in preseason).
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Maybe the Browns think Pinkston could give them better depth at RT since (I believe) he played OT at Pitt. If anything happened to JT, Schwartz would have to move to LT and, possibly, they think Pinkston would be a better option than Cousins or whomever else was available for RT duty. Greco gives us depth at C, besides playing LG, and Pinkston gives us depth at OG and ROT. Bases are covered.
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but there were other reports that said something quite different. It wasn't that long ago, tab.
Actually I know exactly what I'm talking about. The reports of playing in different positions was from the very first Mini Camp we had. The last MINI CAMP is what I'm talking about n there was NO ROUND ROBIN regarding the interior. The depth chart took more form as the Coaches got a look from the first camp n now was starting to get down to business. I remember exactly what happened...you are jumbling two reports in one time zone but the other report yes surfaced in POST FROM IGNORANT POSTERS claiming Pinkston at LG n Greco at RG. But their timing was off by several weeks. I know what I'm talking about...apologies accepted. Don't worry I won't hold my breath.
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And some of you guys act like Lava Man is a sibling. Always rushing to his defense. Why would it bother you if Greco and Pinky are the starters? Seriously.........why?
Do I like him? Sure I do, cause he is a Brown and a Snot Bubble blocker. Why Insult me like that? That if I post that he is good it must be cause he is a sibling. Ya think possibly I know my OL - I rush to his defense cause quite frankly most posters don't really have a clue about the OL let alone the INTERIOR...you cannot judge Interior OL play from follow the ball mentality n think you know what is going on. You got to watch the same play over n over to disect it correctly.
On two occasions during the season I was reading a lot of LAVA SUCKS POSTS and I was like HUH?? I don't remember that. I went back and spent a lot of time disecting every play as it turned out those posters were found to be flat out JOKES in their observations as he actually did not suck but played a great game. So I defend him.
To Answer your question on why would it bother me if the OL is Pinkston n Greco at OG...cause not of some SIBLING BS Crapola you spew out there...Gosh forbid if somebody else actually knows football. Its because I see him as the BEST RG on this team...Point blank. As in my strong opinion on a subject that I'm sure I know more about than anyone on this board. I could be wrong but I do know it. Sorry for the confidence in that.
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I want the best on the field. I have no personal interest in this. Oh, he's gotta start so I don't look stupid on a message board.
Again why insult me in such a condescending way? Like I don't wish the best on the field that must be why I pimp Lava  Oh no thats not it - IT MUST BE SO I DON'T LOOK STUPID ON A MESSAGE BOARD...mr. lets talk football. Man you can be nice sometimes and then so insulting. What gauls me the most you prop yourself up as some Football KNOW MORE GUY and a stand up guy who defends posters from Bullies...then you discuss OL to me in this manner? Oh he's a sibling. Oh its about my ego not to look stupid, Oh I don't wish the best OL on the field. 
smh
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I don't know how Lombardi/Banner and the coaching staff feel, but Heckert noted when we drafted Pinkston that his arms were too short for OT and we drafted him to play OG.
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And some of you guys act like Lava Man is a sibling. Always rushing to his defense. Why would it bother you if Greco and Pinky are the starters? Seriously.........why?
I don't know Vers. There is a lot of love for Vickers. Many have this thing for the fullback position. The position involved in roughly 25% of the offense. Not to start a war I do agree you need best player available. Question becomes at what cost. You can say the same for offensive guard. It would be nice to play all super stars, but when does cost out weigh return in value?
I always thought having a solid triangle (LT,C,RT) is the key component building a powerful OL. Guards are used in running a specific offensive style. I believe the question becomes who best fits maulers, pass protection, or pulling guard in Turner/Chud's offense. Drafting Gilkey and picking up Faulk makes one think Turner is leaning toward a mauler, or maybe he is looking for one of each interchanging Greco, Pink, and Lava.
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I get exactly what he's saying. There's a few posters around here who make it sound like people who don't want Lauvao starting need their head examined.
Personally, I'd go with Greco and Pinkston. I think it will be Greco and Lauvao. I don't really care which way it shakes out. I don't see some chasm of difference there that will make or break the line.
I never thought 'sibling' ... I just assumed one or two of the guys talking about Luavao like it's silly to question his starting role have probably met him a few times or something.
As for you...you seem to have very, very thin skin, and are offended quite easily. If that's the case, maybe you need to ratchet down your own condescension towards others. You seem to dish it out fairly often, but as soon as someone hands it back you, it becomes 'why would anyone insult little old me?'
If you can't stand the heat, as the old saying goes...
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If you can't stand the heat, as the old saying goes...
You're saying that he should "get out of the kitchen"? This board needs and should value posters like 'tab who can intelligently analyze the game and offer us insight that perhaps we would otherwise miss....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
If you can't stand the heat, as the old saying goes...
You're saying that he should "get out of the kitchen"? This board needs and should value posters like 'tab who can intelligently analyze the game and offer us insight that perhaps we would otherwise miss....
No, I like his insight. I didn't mean get off the boards.
I meant being snarky. If he wants to say 'I disagree with Poster X's assessment, and think Lauvao is fine as a starting guard', that's great. If he wants to say that others are wanting and wishing for Pinkston to start like it's some laughable notion, that's cool, too, but expect to have someone come back with equal snark.
He likes to be snarky, and then when others are snarky to him, all of a sudden it's some mean insult, and he was just minding his own business when he was blindsided.
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Dawg Talker
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You can watch hours,and hours,and hours of film,but if you don't know assignments,schemes and run fits,you can't say an olinemen doesn't know what he's doing.
Even in your example,the protection called may have been slide left,and Mack messed up.
You can talk about a player's one on one battles or an obvious missed block,but,there is no one here qualified enough to post about the mental aspect of oline play.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Our OL is as good as any in the game ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Quote:
You can watch hours,and hours,and hours of film,but if you don't know assignments,schemes and run fits,you can't say an olinemen doesn't know what he's doing.
Even in your example,the protection called may have been slide left,and Mack messed up.
You can talk about a player's one on one battles or an obvious missed block,but,there is no one here qualified enough to post about the mental aspect of oline play.
You have just ticked off a load of know it alls
Good job
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You are a very, very small man.
I can evaluate OL just fine. I didn't criticize the guy for his statement, but I'll criticize your demeaning, cruel self. You stir up trouble all the time. You allow your feelings on personalities to cloud every statement you make. I think you are a fraud.
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If I watch a play over and over, eventually I can see what happened and who was wrong without knowing assignments, responsibilities, etc. I suppose there's a chance that sometimes I'm wrong but I don't think so.
I've watched some plays 10-12 and more times until I could recognize what each side of the ball was doing on a particular play. I've watched sack plays a half dozen times and still couldn't see where the defender was originally coming from. After finally seeing it and then watching it multiple more times it's not that hard to see who should have done what on the OL to prevent the sack.
I'll go so far to say though that sometimes nothing could have been done in what ever blocking scheme they were in because every OL was busy handling someone or some-two.
I can't see these things real-time. It's just too fast.
What I can't do is evaluate OL as individual positions. I don't understand proper hand or feet technique. I don't know leverage or hip bend. I only know these things exist and are important. But I don't know proper technique so can't really evaluate a player. I know if they're giving up sacks or letting a defender though to stop a rushing attempt for a loss or no gain, but I don't know and can't see why he's having that problem.
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like your post until you can run on 4th and1 and be confident of getting it you dont have a top 5 line.
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Vers & Bugs, the solution is obvious! Get Vickers back, then start HIM at guard. Simple. He ends up there anyhow. Depth galore. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
Quote:
You can watch hours,and hours,and hours of film,but if you don't know assignments,schemes and run fits,you can't say an olinemen doesn't know what he's doing.
Even in your example,the protection called may have been slide left,and Mack messed up.
You can talk about a player's one on one battles or an obvious missed block,but,there is no one here qualified enough to post about the mental aspect of oline play.
You have just ticked off a load of know it alls
Good job
That was not my intent.
It was a quick reply,not to you,that obviously didn't convey my thoughts very well.
Without a playbook it's impossible to know who should be doing what on any given play.When ghosting,influence,and false reads work,the linemen recieve our cheers.When they don't,it appears that an olinemen missed his assignment,when in reality it's just good defense.Or bad acting.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Understand what you mean about assignments and line calls. But there is nothing in the NFL set in stone cause what you see is rarely what you get. In the NFL I see the need to adjust on the fly as the key even more so than a correct line call. That is why Continuity is a big time factor.
Again...some claim I'm in love with Lava - Its Twu Its Twu.
But I'm in love with the BROWNS...not only would it be hard to unseat Lava at RG but there also would be an interruption on the continuity.
He is aggressive he does play on the balls of his feet a lot so that when a defender he is blocking leaves he will go to the ground. But he gets up right away n continues down field.
The expert analyst (not the play by play guys, the ex-NFL players) of games who do not know the Browns will watch a lot of our film to familiarize themselves with us. On more than one occasion they singled out Lava, saying things like I love this guy he impressed me.
I remember specifically one of our last games...it happened. Not some Bozo from ProFootball looking at OL STATS...lol
Pinkston is far behind Lava in effectiveness. I don't mean to be arrogant or demeaning but when guys say stuff like personally I prefer Greco n Pinkston...I just shake my head.
As noted the guy who has the nastiness to possibly win the job on this current roster is Gilkey.
Miller - needs a lot of progress to just make the team.
Pinkston is OK at best and a decent backup...hope he learns how to snap so Greco doesn't have to move out of position in case Mack gets nicked up for a game or two!
A major play of all NFL LGs. Is the Power pull on stretch runs to the right. That is the key to look at we need a force. Pinkston in the past was way to slow n behind the play. Greco was better but was knocked back instead of him punishing the defender. This is what has made me state that the LG guard position has been our weak link on the OL. I hope the reports are true that Greco spent a lot of dedication this off season to Get Stronger...his footwork was excellent.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
That was not my intent.
For the record, I didn't think it was. You were making a football point. I don't totally agree w/what you said, but there is certainly merit to your statement. I am not upset w/your post at all. I just had one too many doses of Da Man's Hot poison.
tab: I didn't see Greco "getting knocked back" like you did. I am going to say this again. I didn't like the guy. Thought he was just another warm body that Heckert brought in, but I watched him play and the more I watched him play, the more impressed I got. He was our best guard last year. I even think he was our second best overall lineman last year. You guys might not have appreciated him, but I think the new regime certainly does and that is why they gave him a long-term contract.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98 |
I agree with you on Lava Man, I also like the tandem of Greco and Lava @ OG, but I also think Pinkston is a starting talent in this league, and to have him @ backup here in Cleveland, well I am excited about that and our entire OL ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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