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Yeah, he really blew that RG3 deal. He should have offered five first and five seconds for a player that may never finish a season healthy. If only we had RG3 he would win every game all by himself. Which is what he would have to do if we traded away the next four drafts to get him. The Skins had some talent on that team. RG3 just added to that. But yeah, I sure do with we had traded the sun. moon and stars for ONE player that is likely to get hurt all the time.....
Yeah, that's what he meant. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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God forbid we would want a guy with Pro Bowl talent on our team .... especially at QB. RG3 was the glue that pulled that Redskins team together. He was an exceptional QB, especially for a rookie, on a big stage team. He threw 20 TD, ran for 7 more, and only threw 5 INT. Yep ....... I'd sure hate having a guy like that.  Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden also got hurt this past season. Does that mean that they are going to be no good?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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While Spirit's post was snarky his premise was not wrong.
RG3 will boost his team's win total. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that he'll spend significant time on the bench each season because of injury. That's a risk that the Redskins were willing to mortgage the future for.
I'm not that upset that we didn't.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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One other little tidbit..the HC won't be reporting to Lombardi, but Banner, and I'd rather have it that way.
But you're right on some things..I didn't like the way MH thrusted himself in the draft but then other times decided to stay on the island away from everyone.
Learning who TH had rated and who we took at that spot just shows how he had no clue how to do his job.
I like the way it's set up with Chud answering to Banner.
No doubt Homie got involved. After he blew the deal with RGIII, he panicked and started trading picks that didn't make sense and pulling the rug from under Heck by insisting on taking Weeden when we did rather than wait for our 2nd round pick.
Yeah, he really blew that RG3 deal. He should have offered five first and five seconds for a player that may never finish a season healthy. If only we had RG3 he would win every game all by himself. Which is what he would have to do if we traded away the next four drafts to get him. The Skins had some talent on that team. RG3 just added to that. But yeah, I sure do with we had traded the sun. moon and stars for ONE player that is likely to get hurt all the time.....
I take it you thought we didn't need a RT in the draft last year? You would have spent the 2nd on Weeden and passed on Schwartz? And how do you know for SURE he would have been there at 2. We weren't the only ones desperate to get lucky at QB. Big deal, we took a shot at a kid we hoped would give us a chance. The jury is STILL out man. Weeden might surprise you......
Right now, it kinda looks as if it's very possible that Washington Blew it. No doubt RG is a fantastic player,, so much fun to watch. exciting as hell. but the way he plays, he's going to end up out of the game within 5 years. I'm not sure he'll ever finish a season off the IR.
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Kinda hard to recall the last time the 'Skins had a 1st round pick...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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While Spirit's post was snarky his premise was not wrong.
RG3 will boost his team's win total. But I'd bet dollars to donuts that he'll spend significant time on the bench each season because of injury. That's a risk that the Redskins were willing to mortgage the future for.
I'm not that upset that we didn't.
We'll see what happens.
The thing about RG3, if you watch him play, is that he probably has the best accuracy out of any of the QBs taken in this past draft. OK, no probably about it, he has absolutely amazing accuracy. If/when he decides that he cannot run all that much anymore, then he will still have that elite level accuracy, as well as great anticipation. He is a student of the game. He is a leader. I would be willing to bet that he win at least 1 Super Bowl before he's done, and will be mentioned among the all time greats. He has elite level talent, and brains on top of that. That's a combination for long term success, even if he did get hurt near the end of his rookie year.
Lots of players get hurt in this leage, especially QBs. They are the focus of defenses, and are attacked relentlessly. We had Weeden go down against the Broncos, and McCoy couldn;t survive them either. We also had our starting RB struggle with injuries all year long. Players get hurt in the NFL. That doesn't mean that they are hurt forever.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Kinda hard to recall the last time the 'Skins had a 1st round pick...
It will be a while longer before they have another..
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Plus there seems to be this perception out there that Griffin is some smurf playing QB. He has good size, and should only get stronger as he matures, especially with some weight work. Like Elway did, he will learn not to try to win games with his legs, and will become a prototype "Elite" QB, or just below that, who will have the Redskins in contention for a long time. And thats from a guy who didn't want to give up 3 #1's for him. I may need to rethink that ...
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Plus there seems to be this perception out there that Griffin is some smurf playing QB. He has good size, and should only get stronger as he matures, especially with some weight work. Like Elway did, he will learn not to try to win games with his legs, and will become a prototype "Elite" QB, or just below that, who will have the Redskins in contention for a long time. And thats from a guy who didn't want to give up 3 #1's for him. I may need to rethink that ...
That's taking it to extremes, nobody said he's a smurf and I don't think anyone has that perception.
it's not about his size, it's about his playing style. If he indeed learns to sit there and throw the ball instead of tucking a running all the time, he'll last, otherwise, he simply won't.
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RG3 isn't a tuck and run first QB ... not even close.
He is an elite level passer who can run. Big difference.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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RG3 isn't a tuck and run first QB ... not even close.
He is an elite level passer who can run. Big difference.
He had over 700 yards running.., He keeps that up, he'll get himself killed..Simple as that.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Plus, There's no guarantee he even comes back 100% from his 2nd major knee injury. I think this is the 2nd surgery on the same knee.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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Probably not ..... but he still isn't a run first QB. The guy has elite tools as a passing QB.
Regardless, IIRC, the play on which he was hurt wasn't even a running play. I seem to recall that it was a sack that twisted him up .... then he continued to play out the game, with the Skins running for almost every play of the rest of the game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Plus there seems to be this perception out there that Griffin is some smurf playing QB. He has good size, and should only get stronger as he matures, especially with some weight work. Like Elway did, he will learn not to try to win games with his legs, and will become a prototype "Elite" QB, or just below that, who will have the Redskins in contention for a long time. And thats from a guy who didn't want to give up 3 #1's for him. I may need to rethink that ...
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That's taking it to extremes, nobody said he's a smurf and I don't think anyone has that perception
I don't feel like arguing about it, its no biggy. Maybe "smurf" was an overstatement, but you have to admit that there was a lot of conversation and concern about Griffin's size in the run-up to the 2012 Draft. The relief among Griffin supporters was audible on this board and elsewhere when he measured a shade over 6-2 at the Combine. For the record, thats somewhere between a 1/2" and 3/4" taller than McCoy, who I most definitely recall being referred to as a smurf, and worse. Here's just one discussion on these boards from last year where some respected posters (Clevesteve, Mourg, Toad, and others) voiced concerns about Griffin's size. Note page 2 of the thread where a guy (Mourg), whose posts I look for on football, uses the word "smurf". So I wasn't just making things up.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/900172/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1
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I am on-board with this hire. Matter of fact I have been on-board with all the Brown's hires with the exception of Lombardi. Lombardi has to earn my respect and that's putting things nicely!
Farmer, IMO, should be a good addition. Been a talent evaluator for quite some time now... another set of eyes, another credible opinion and etc should always be a positive...
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Plus there seems to be this perception out there that Griffin is some smurf playing QB. He has good size, and should only get stronger as he matures, especially with some weight work. Like Elway did, he will learn not to try to win games with his legs, and will become a prototype "Elite" QB, or just below that, who will have the Redskins in contention for a long time. And thats from a guy who didn't want to give up 3 #1's for him. I may need to rethink that ...
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That's taking it to extremes, nobody said he's a smurf and I don't think anyone has that perception
I don't feel like arguing about it, its no biggy. Maybe "smurf" was an overstatement, but you have to admit that there was a lot of conversation and concern about Griffin's size in the run-up to the 2012 Draft. The relief among Griffin supporters was audible on this board and elsewhere when he measured a shade over 6-2 at the Combine. For the record, thats somewhere between a 1/2" and 3/4" taller than McCoy, who I most definitely recall being referred to as a smurf, and worse. Here's just one discussion on these boards from last year where some respected posters (Clevesteve, Mourg, Toad, and others) voiced concerns about Griffin's size. Note page 2 of the thread where a guy (Mourg), whose posts I look for on football, uses the word "smurf". So I wasn't just making things up.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/900172/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1
The thing that matters to me most is the size of a mans heart.. In that Regard, one of the smallest guys to ever play QB was Doug Flutie, but he had a ton of Heart.
So does RG I think. Smart, very capable. Size was never an issue with me. But I do remember the talk running up to the draft,
My feelings today are all about the way he played last season. Ytown said he wasn't a run first QB.. Ok, but he ran a helluva lot. run first or not, he ran and ran and ran.
I'll say it again, if he keeps that up, he'll get killed..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Concerning the RG111 topic, just about every team that acquires a "running" QB, run first or not, invariably reaches a point of having to reign in that QB, simply to preserve him.
In essence what contributes to that QBs value, devalues the player, due to much higher injury risk. Teams and the league both know that acquiring franchise or at least near-franchise QBs and then protecting them is the name of the game.
While, I think that RG11 possesses all the skills that you may want in a QB, it is that one electrifying skill that lessens his long term possibilities. It is that lone reason that I did not want the Browns to give up the farm for his rights.
BTW, I like the Ray Farmer hiring, because the Banner and Lombardi coupling does scare me, for all the reasons stated by others..
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Concerning the RG111 topic, just about every team that acquires a "running" QB, run first or not, invariably reaches a point of having to reign in that QB, simply to preserve him.
In essence what contributes to that QBs value, devalues the player, due to much higher injury risk. Teams and the league both know that acquiring franchise or at least near-franchise QBs and then protecting them is the name of the game.
While, I think that RG11 possesses all the skills that you may want in a QB, it is that one electrifying skill that lessens his long term possibilities. It is that lone reason that I did not want the Browns to give up the farm for his rights.
BTW, I like the Ray Farmer hiring, because the Banner and Lombardi coupling does scare me, for all the reasons stated by others..
Tell a running QB that he can't run as much, and his worth drops unless his arm can carry him. Now, in the case of RG,, he might be able to pull that off. he's got a strong arm and he's accurate. So maybe he can make that change and actually increase his value. I do believe that's possible in his case. Randall Cunningham couldn't pull that off. Mike Vick can't seem to get it done.
I guess we'll see if that's what he's asked to do at some point.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Vers, seriously?
You ripped Holmgren and Shurmur THE MINUTE they were hired because you were upset Mangini was fired as you thought he was moving things in the right direction.
Yes, seriously.
And you are telling a lie. I didn't rip The Big Show before his first FA period. I didn't rip him before his first draft. I didn't even rip him during the first season until I saw what he was up to. You know, when he came out and said "I didn't think I was going to fire Eric until I woke up this morning..." Then, I ripped him.
Don't make crap up, Memphis!
You guys seem to have the need to make everyone despise the FO because you do. You did it on the other board and you both come over here and start the same stuff. How about you give them at least one stinking year before the all-out attacks?
Vers, with all due respect, I am not making anything up. In fact, believe it or not, your comments after the Mangini firing and subsequent Holmgren hiring were the very reason I posted regularly on the Browns chat board. You were my instant conflict. You created the Memphis Frankenstein....what were you thinking!
Sorry, but you bashed everything. You and Upbeat. From the very moment Holmgren was hired. His past in Seattle as an executive and all that. Shurmur and his few years as an OC. Sorry, but you did. Now whether that was more because Mangini was gone, I don't know. But either way, it happened or I wouldn't be a regular poster.
But I don't have a problem with it, frankly. Although I disagreed with it at the time, I don't think we need to see a draft class or a game played for anyone. For both regimes (past and current) there is/was a sample size of performance already available. The question this time around is whether or not their skills have improved over time (in Lombardi's case), or because prior work situations changed perspective (in Banner's case) or because someone is poised to take the next leap (in Chud's case).
Just a reminder to you as I know we've gotten into in a bit in the past on a prior board. I'm not the biggest Holmgren and Shurmur fan in the world. In fact, their departure is fine by me. People can be skeptical because of previous results. Like many have been in the past.
"Memphis Frankenstein" i wonder why people think all you are doing is running down the new people.  could you be any more obvious?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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From Mary Kay Cabot today talking about Banner's presser at the NFL Meetings:
• He said Lombardi is not out in front of the media right now because "he's a little bit of a lightning rod'' and Banner want Lombardi to focus on his job for awhile.
I know Banner was hiding Lombardi in a closet, but this is beyond stange!
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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From Mary Kay Cabot today talking about Banner's presser at the NFL Meetings:
• He said Lombardi is not out in front of the media right now because "he's a little bit of a lightning rod'' and Banner want Lombardi to focus on his job for awhile.
I know Banner was hiding Lombardi in a closet, but this is beyond stange!
WOW ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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From Mary Kay Cabot today talking about Banner's presser at the NFL Meetings:
• He said Lombardi is not out in front of the media right now because "he's a little bit of a lightning rod'' and Banner want Lombardi to focus on his job for awhile.
I know Banner was hiding Lombardi in a closet, but this is beyond stange!
Strange?
I think it's smart.
Banner isn't allowing the media to sink their proverbial teeth into him, and anything that Banner can do to keep the media at bay is smart business.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Smart? I think it's dysfunctional. You hire a GM, well then, let him do his job. At what point do you let Lombardi out of the closet? The longer this goes on, the worse it's going to get...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Smart? I think it's dysfunctional. You hire a GM, well then, let him do his job. At what point do you let Lombardi out of the closet? The longer this goes on, the worse it's going to get...
He is letting him do his job. I can understand how Banner doesn't want everyone scrutinizing every word coming out of Lombardi's mouth, especially given how unpopular he is. He wants to let his actions alone speak for him right now. How is it going to get worse? Because the hate mongers are festering for something to jump on? I wasn't thrilled with the choice, but I think this is the smartest way to handle the situation.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Banner acknowledged that the backlash against Lombardi is a factor in his current cloak of invisibility.
"Yes, he got criticized, but I don't think anybody would deny that whether people are for him or against him, he's a lightning rod at the moment,'' Banner said. "It attracts a lot of attention and it gets a lot of strong reaction and I think it's better for us right now and better for him to keep things calm, low-key, focus on his work and then kind of more gradually let that situation take care of itself in terms of his availability to you all.'' -Joe Banner
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Apparently it doesn't include speaking in public nor appearing at player introductions. Typically you would expect a GM to at least participate in this...unless you're Jerry Jones.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Smart in the way that you don't introduce your new girlfriend to Uncle Fester until she gets used to and accepts the rest of your family first. 
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What's his job?
hmmmmmmmmmm??? well, nobody really knows...
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j/c
I agree with Toad on this. I mean I gained new respect for Banner as he laid all that out.
I'm not a fan of the hiring of Banner, or Lombardi.......but I have tried to approach it all as "I want them to succeed, so I HOPE they do.........and I'll let them either mess it up or not." As opposed to saying they suck, and therefore so will we.
I mean someone hired Chud and that staff right? Someone picked up FAs we all wanted (I wanted Kruger or Avril), and some I hadn't even thought of but really like (Bryant) Someone is doing work on bringing in more FAs, and seeing all this...........I have pretty high hopes for the draft too.
So far I'm giving the FO, including Lombardi, pretty darn good marks. I'm still excited just as I was last year in the belief that we are getting better.........and are close to competing.
While I agree with most that Lombardi has a pretty bad record......as a browns fan I'll let him prove it. Banner pretty much nailed it in that presser. Personally the more I see/hear/read/observe of the this FO the better I feel ( and I was kinda in a panic at Banner who I thought was a straight up beancounter.) (seems a whole lot more so far).
And not saying the FO is off the hook either. They all have to prove it to me, to you, to all of us. I'm just tired of being negative as browns fan. We had a different culture once.
Last edited by AkBrownsfan; 03/18/13 10:06 PM.
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Banner acknowledged that the backlash against Lombardi is a factor in his current cloak of invisibility.
I would suggest that any "backlash" would not be directed at Lombardi, but rather at Banner. This is Banner micromanaging a situation that he created by not coming clean at Lombardi's introductory presser regarding the process/rationale of Lombardi's hire...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Don't misunderstand me, I believe the FO has done a solid job on the coaching and FA hires to date. On those points, they get full marks. Not the Lombardi hire, but rather the way it has been (mis) handled, is my bone of contention. I actually find Lombardi likeable....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Banner acknowledged that the backlash against Lombardi is a factor in his current cloak of invisibility.
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I would suggest that any "backlash" would not be directed at Lombardi, but rather at Banner.
You're speaking of a separate situation, one that is bigger than Lombardi being put in front of a microphone. In terms of that picture, I would agree that by protecting Lombardi Banner is also protecting himself.
I would also note...that is very smart. Quote:
This is Banner micromanaging a situation that he created by not coming clean at Lombardi's introductory presser regarding the process/rationale of Lombardi's hire...
This is Banner perfectly managing a situation he created with the hiring of Lombardi in the first place. To say he didn't "come clean" gives me the impression that you are not at all happy with any of this, which would inexorably lead you to question nearly anything he does regarding this complex situation.
While I will respect your opinion, methinks you're not disapproving of just this situation but Banner and Lombardi as a whole. In that light, I would ask you what move or moves Banner would make at this point to earn your approval...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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After being vilified in Philly, I think Banner has become very media savvy. He sneaks the lombardi hiring in between the hiring of Chud, Norv and Horton. When Lombardi addresses the media everyone is still talking about the coaching hires.
We wont hear from Lombardi until everyone is excited from draft day. Plus I would imagine he is neck deep in trade talks about now.
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I would imagine by now people are starting to realize just how freakin' smart Banner really is, and I'd hope they have an appreciation for it, even if they don't like the guy.
He's starting to rival Belichick in terms of keeping the media at bay.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
We wont hear from Lombardi until everyone is excited from draft day.
You're probably correct. We won't (IMO) hear from Lombardi until he has a good body of work behind him here that can be credited to him. Then the focus can be on what he has done recently to build our team as opposed to the questionable moves in the past...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Strange? Let him do his job? Dysfunctional?  Your hate for the new regime clouds your judgement. I think Banner is smart for keeping Lombardi away from the media and the public right now. Awhile ago, Banner said all will be good provided they win on the field. Banner is using multiple people to help improve the talent. It's not all on one guy. He thinks they are going to win on the field, and if they do win on the field, Lombardi will not be so harshly scrutinized. Thus, Banner is keeping him out of the public eye. That's intelligent and shrewd. Lombardi's job is to evaluate and bring in talent. Who cares about him addressing the media? I don't. I don't think we are dysfunctional at all. In fact, it seems that we have a pretty strong team of guys who collectively make decisions together. I think that Banner, Lombardi, Chud, and Farmer are working together. I like what they are doing. They have acquired talent that gives them flexibility in the draft. They aren't going hog-wild, but they have been active. I think you are making much ado about nothing and we both know why you are. Let it go, man. Let it go.
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Quote:
I think you are making much ado about nothing
 I have given this regime kudos where I believe it was deserved. I am sticking to what I have said, but there is no point in taking this further...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
From Mary Kay Cabot today talking about Banner's presser at the NFL Meetings:
• He said Lombardi is not out in front of the media right now because "he's a little bit of a lightning rod'' and Banner want Lombardi to focus on his job for awhile.
I know Banner was hiding Lombardi in a closet, but this is beyond stange!
Here's a link to the entire piece by MKC
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/03/cleveland_browns_joe_banner_sh.html#incart_m-rpt-1
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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jc...
What does this say about the Browns choice to fill the GM position, when the CEO has to hide the GM away so the local sports media can't ask him any questions?
What does it say about the CEO of the Browns, when he makes the decision to hide Lombardi from the media?
I don't believe I have ever seen anything like this, in Cleveland or in the NFL...a GM not being allowed to talk to the media.
Had Holmgren done this...hid Heckert away from the media...these folks now standing up for Banner, would be ripping Holmgren a new one. Now we know why Banner didn't want Heckert to remain as GM...Heckert would not stand for something like this.
Banner chose Lombardi for precisely this reason...Banner wanted someone willing to compromise all his principles, when asked to...someone willing to surrender his authority as GM, when told to...someone willing to do whatever Banner wants. Banner wanted a "yes man" and he sure got one in Lombardi.
What a slap in the face to Mike Lombardi, not being introduced to the media when promoted to GM...and not being included in the press conference when Kruger and Bryant were introduced to the media.
Obviously, Banner is afraid to allow his new GM to even talk to the local sports media...I've never seen anything like this...only in Cleveland !
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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