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I'm not seeing this huge contrast everyone seems to be painting here.
That's because there is no contrast to see.
"Meet the New Boss, same as the Old Boss."
- "Won't Get Fooled Again", The Who
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I like your sig. and it seems very appropriate to me! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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hah, it does seem to fit things around this team, doesn't it?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I just have to wonder at what point people just quit buying anything they're sold rather than be willing to question things more? To expect someone to show their capability rather than just eat everything a new owner or FO says?
I would have thought people may have learned better by now, but in most cases, it appears not. With the way things happened in Philly, not what is said, but what we saw, combined with the hiring of Lombardi who has PROVEN to be a disaster, I'm just not putting nearly the faith in this ship as most are.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm a Browns fan, regardless of who's running the team, coaching the team, or playing for the team, I will root for the team, I will go to games (Seahawks 2011 anyone?) and support my team.
Oh and guess what?
I HAVE NO INPUT ON WHO'S ON THIS TEAM.
So you want to sit there and question the front office? Have fun.
I'll be at the game rooting my team on regardless.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'm a Browns fan, regardless of who's running the team, coaching the team, or playing for the team, I will root for the team, I will go to games (Seahawks 2011 anyone?) and support my team.
As I have done since 1964. I fail to see your point.
Quote:
Oh and guess what?
I HAVE NO INPUT ON WHO'S ON THIS TEAM.
So you want to sit there and question the front office? Have fun.
I'll be at the game rooting my team on regardless.
So I'm somehow less of a fan if I don't like who is in the FO?
I'm somehow less of a fan because I expect accountability from those in charge?
How does simply "going with the flow" even if I think it's wrong somehow make me a better fan?
How would being some kind of a brown noser who just accepted the status quo without wanting and expecting a winner make me any better of a fan?
You could look at the flip side of the coin and say those who just seem happy with losing aren't supporting things getting any better.
Those who refuse to want, and yes demand a better product on the field seem fine and happy with a far less than mediocre product. They don't care if we lose forever!
One thing you'll find from all who have posted with me for a VERY long time, is none of them would ever question my loyalty as a Browns fan.
The fact you don't know any better? Gets you a free pass.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm just not putting nearly the faith in this ship as most are
who are these mystical people who are putting blind faith in the team and FO?
I have seen nearly everyone question who is starting at CB2 and TE. Most about FS as well. OG is a sore spot, no?
however, I also see that most are not willing to just throw the whole FO and owner under the bus before a single draft has been held or game has been played.
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I think you misunderstood, I was in no way questioning fan hood.
I'm just saying, AS A FAN. You have no input into what goes on with the team.
How does a fan of the team "support it to get better" beyond supporting the team?
I'm not running out to buy any jerseys right now, but its not like I'm ganna sit at home and pout till my team wins more games or signs better players.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I see some very strong reasons to question this FO. I have been of the "free pass until they fail" variety ever since 99. Even when I have had questions about a FO or their decisions, I always tried to give them the shadow of a doubt. And as much as it pains those who know this, Lombardi has had drafts. He's even had drafts here in Cleveland. He has a track record. Of course I guess we could all ignore the "facts" about that. But there is draft evidence already in front of us. Sure we have holes on the roster, but I haven't seen heavy criticism blaming this FO for these holes being there. And there shouldn't be. those holes wer here for the most part before they got here. I did question them not being more aggressive at persuing a CB because there were a lot of them in the beginning and the prices were far more reasonable than in the past. But by and large, these guys get a free pass. Even the fact that Lombardi was hired as the GM (not head of scouting or some other underling glorified title), which from the evidence he has little to no qualification for, it all gets glossed over. Come on man!  I'm going to call it the way I see it. The best thing to come of this is that I'm totally wrong which would make me very happy. But I have been quiet every time I questioned a new FO before. I don't really see any real reason to keep up with the charades.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
I think you misunderstood, I was in no way questioning fan hood.
I'm just saying, AS A FAN. You have no input into what goes on with the team.
How does a fan of the team "support it to get better" beyond supporting the team?
I supported the team when Art owned it, but I didn't support or like Art.
Quote:
I'm not running out to buy any jerseys right now, but its not like I'm ganna sit at home and pout till my team wins more games or signs better players.
I don't see the players as a part of the management as referenced above with Art Modell. If that was the case, I would be a Bengals fan because I really liked Paul Brown.
I separate our team from our FO and owner. My history as a Browns fan dictates that's true. I can see how some may not, but I certainly do. Hopefully that helps clear things up somewhat.
And there is a huge difference between sounding out loudly about what you think the problems are or will be, than pouting. As I have spoke about before, sometimes I read "quietyly following" and by doing so, it appears you are willing to accept something less than mediocre without even caring enough to be vocal about it.
Let me ask you a question. If you're a billionaire and your corporation is very unproductive, your product is inferior year in and year out? Yet you make millions and millions every year, what would be your incentive to improve your product?
While I'm not advocating people don't spend money on the Browns, if we don't at least vocally hold them to some accountability, I see them as having no real incentive for change.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I just have to wonder at what point people just quit buying anything they're sold rather than be willing to question things more?
I'm well past that point, personally.
I look at this organization from the new owner on down and I see ZERO reasons for optimism or excitement. It's just another tired, old, rehash of what we've been fed with every regime change since '99.... and as part of this fan base, we've pretty much freaking EXPERTS at regime changes by now.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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nothing wrong with ? the FO. matter of fact gives us something to talk about in the dead offseason. I do like what we have done in FA for the most part. love the coaching staff brought in.
until the new FO does something total stupid I just cant bash them.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
I see ZERO reasons for optimism or excitement
you don't like Horton's defenses?
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
I see ZERO reasons for optimism or excitement
you don't like Horton's defenses?
Educate me: WHY should I like it?
Is it the run stopping ability or the scoring defense that you love?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It's the potential. Which I like as well.
But I ain't seen nuttin' yet.
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I'm done getting excited about potential and things "on paper".
It's all empty promises.
Aside from that, when I look at the track record of his defense over the last two years.... I don't see a whole lot to base "potential" on. Hell, his scoring defense was below ours last year.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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On December 9th the Cardinals only lost by 58 to Seattle.
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Don't let the facts get in the way. Hardly anyone else does!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Oh, hell.... how did I miss that??? Nevermind... I'm on board!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
On December 9th the Cardinals only lost by 58 to Seattle.
...but it wasn't as close as the score would have you believe.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I don't see a whole lot to base "potential" on. Hell, his scoring defense was below ours last year.
What I saw last year was a Browns defense with speed. So much so that I marveled at how slow in comparison our defenses have been for years prior to last season. Some of it may have been scheme but I'm thinking it was mostly slow players.
So I'm hoping with these younger guys and the speed Horton has something here to work with.
In so far as "scoring defense", that falls into the realm of "stats" to which I put very little weight because there are so many variables to consider. I don't know the quality of players they had. Good DL/Bad DL, LB's, DB's, schedule, etc, etc.
And then there's lopsided statistic skewing games like the Cards vs Seattle (if true) mentioned after I posted this
Horton's philosophies are a welcome scheme. Now he has to take what he has to work with here and make something of it.
Like you, neither do I fall into the group of, "We got Horton as our DC and now we're going to be badazz!" But I do like the scheme of an attacking defense and I know he'll use what he's got on the roster and bring the best out of them. It all depends on the roster and right now the defense has nothing going for it but potential.
Potential don't win games.
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Basically... you have Faith.
I don't.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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#gmstrong
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Yeah, I'm fresh out of that, too 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Hope, Faith...who is going to throw in "Charity"? Haven't seen too much of that on this thread. 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
I just have to wonder at what point people just quit buying anything they're sold rather than be willing to question things more?
I'm well past that point, personally.
I look at this organization from the new owner on down and I see ZERO reasons for optimism or excitement. It's just another tired, old, rehash of what we've been fed with every regime change since '99.... and as part of this fan base, we've pretty much freaking EXPERTS at regime changes by now.
I have to agree, a good portion of the fan base is less tolerant now than at anytime since 1999. Didn't take long for the Haslam, Banner, Lombardi "honeymoon" to end, did it?
Any high hopes the fans may have had when Haslam took over, went out the window when he first acted like hired Banner after an extensive search and then after the season, our new Browns owner lost his love for football and went back to the trucking business, leaving the entire franchise in Banner's control. I don't believe Haslam has been back since.
It's not just the fan base questioning the franchise's owner and front office either...the Cleveland media are beginning to see that all is not what they thought it would be when Haslam bought the team.
It is the shortest honeymoon period I have ever seen in Cleveland and the owner and boys running the franchise have only themselves to blame.
Last edited by mac; 03/25/13 06:45 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Banner was going to be running the football team regardless..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Hope, Faith...who is going to throw in "Charity"? Haven't seen too much of that on this thread.
I'll take some Charity. I'm outta beer. 
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Banner was going to be running the football team regardless..
Point is, Haslam road into to Cleveland like he was this owner with vast football knowledge and background...but once he grew tired of his new toy, he split, not even caring to be involved.
I said at the time Haslam bought the team...the Browns are nothing more than a toy the rich folks like to play with...but I never thought Haslam would leave Cleveland so fast.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Quote:
Banner was going to be running the football team regardless..
Point is, Haslam road into to Cleveland like he was this owner with vast football knowledge and background...
Actually, I'm pretty sure he said the exact opposite...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I see some very strong reasons to question this FO.
I think that many of us (me included) always tried to find the good in things. Glass half full and all.. But I too have a few reservations, but like someone else said, we can worry all we want, we can't cause change.
I don't think we have a choice but to accept it and in the end, if we decided we don't like the results, we have the choice to quit following the Browns.
Last thing they want is to lose the fans.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"we have the choice to quit following the Browns." You know thats never going to happen, even if they do screw it up. 
GO BROWNS!
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"we have the choice to quit following the Browns."
You know thats never going to happen, even if they do screw it up.
LOYALTY ... Cleveland Browns Fans ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Hope, Faith...who is going to throw in "Charity"? Haven't seen too much of that on this thread.
I had Charity -shes not that great
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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j/c:
Wow, what a load of horse manure.
You guys are so upset because the past regime is gone. You are so freaking obvious. Cry me a river.
Btw-------where are Heckert and Holmgren working now?
I don't know if the new regime is good or bad. Too early to tell. I am defending them because I always defend the minority opinion. I am also defending them because I thought The Big Show's crew was awful and they gave me no hope at all. I can admit that, rather than hide behind some convoluted mumbo-jumbo that some are trying to pass off as logic. Guys, you are more than obvious, so stop the charade.
It comes down to this........if you REALLY think this FO is so pathetic and KNOW so before they even have two seasons to prove so, than why don't you move on? We have a new owner. These are his guys. It's not going to change. That is a fact. Junior is gone. The days of blowing it up are over. So, find another team if you hate the new guys so much. Save yourselves--and the rest of us--the misery of it.
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i don't post too much football talk because i don't know much about X's and O's, i just read what you guys say and learn.
i understand Lombardi isn't/wasn't exactly the GM anybody wanted for the browns, or Banner for president. but so far, we can't deny that banner has picked a hell of a coaching staff, and Lombardi(whether or not he wanted these players) was able to seal the deal with 2 great FA's, and a bunch of depth guys to fill holes.
we will see come Draft time, and we will see come the regular season how everything plays out. i hate having to watch the browns constantly start over, but one thing i have never done is compare one regime to another, because, well especially now, it doesn't matter cause they all sucked.
so, everybody has got to give these guys a blank slant, a fresh start, and look at everything from a fresh new pair of eyes. i don't have hope, nor do i foresee doom, either. it's another "wait and see" season.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Don't worry about posting because you don't know the X's and O's. Believe me, most fans do not.
I agree w/you on giving them a chance, but let me make this clear.......if they suck in two years, I will be calling for their heads. I just think it's kinda early for all the doom and gloom stuff. In fact, I know it is too early. It's BS agenda posting because some posters are upset that the previous regime is gone. Plain and simple and I don't think they are fooling many people. They would probably get more respect if they would just admit it.
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Quote:
if they suck in two years, I will be calling for their heads. I just think it's kinda early for all the doom and gloom stuff. In fact, I know it is too early. It's BS agenda posting because some posters are upset that the previous regime is gone.
I think you have it backwards. The way this organization's been run since '99, it's too early to NOT feel the gloom and doom. If they make the playoffs in two years, then we'll gladly eat crow. It's not agenda posting for a lot of folks, it's the reality of being a Brown's fan for the last 14 years. I feel pretty good about the current signings, but I also felt good about signing Chris Spielman, Gary Baxter, Lomas Brown, LeCharles Bentley, Jeff Garcia, etc. This is a losing organization until they prove otherwise.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I would not put you in that group I was referring to. I understand your concern. However, there are others that are others that are only hating on the new regime because they so fully supported the previous regime. Back to your version of things: We should not feel that way because it is an entirely new group. Junior is dead. Long live the new king. However, it seems as if Cleveland is cursed. The city has a losing mentality. I haven't agreed w/all the moves. Loved the first two. Suspicious about the TE and CB thing. No FS. But geez-oh-peezo.......if you admit that, the Haters will run w/it. It's such BS. Not even much fun to post or read. Not much football being discussed, and yes, I am guilty of it, too. 
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