DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns make Lombardi G.M., Farmer assistant G.M.

Quote:

---

This is a losing organization until they prove otherwise.

---

This organization hasn't lost a thing yet, or won yet..it's brand new...

32........you may as well go ahead and bash away. There are so many posters on here who also hate the new FO that your abstinence is not even noticed.

Heck w/it. Bash away, little brother. The peace treaty has no chance of working.

While I agree that there have been many who hated to see the old regime go I think the majority of the "bashing" came not so much in comparison to the old FO, rather disappointment in the people brought in to become the new FO.

And that disappointment was earned by themselves and not created by a comparison to the old regime.

It has come from the Banner hire, who was/is viewed as a sour-pussed, bean counter who wants control over player personnel and is in the position to have "final say" over all things football.

And then there is the Lombardi hire who is Banner's hand-picked, right hand man, (which adds to the negative view of Banner because fans don't like Lombardi who has been a Browns basher for sometime now on National TV).

Add to that, the entire civilized world knew two months before the Lombardi hire that he would be new Browns GM. Banner denied it at the time. Then when he did hire Lombardi he claimed it was a recent decision when everyone already knew it was coming. Nothing so wrong with that except that it solidified the view fans had of him as being a bit shifty and not upfront. That didn't go over well. He's actually made it worse by keeping Lombardi shielded from the press during this FA period. (Just for the record, I'n not fazed by this in the least and think it's the right thing to do at this time).

So we have two people whom the fans didn't trust. And with Banner adding to his non-trustworthiness by hiring Lombardi, in what seemed like a shady deal, it's kind of a double whammy against Banner. Against this new FO.

That's how I saw it brewing from the beginning.

Heckert was the only one that it seemed fans wanted to keep. That stemmed from the obvious foundation he was building on the roster. Maybe he wasn't the best but he was the best we'd had to that point.

No one but a few really gave a crap about Holmgren and even less about Shurmur.

My point is that the FO bashing is not so much about loving the old regime as you're thinking. I think it's more about not liking the personalities of the new regime.

Banner the bean counter as perhaps over estimating his own value as a player evaluator and Lord of all things football-related combined with Lombardi and his poor resume in evaluating talent throughout his career combined with his Browns bashing. Appearing that these two are a recipe for disaster is what kicked this whole thing off.

I hate to hear the old regime not getting credit for building a foundation (didn't get a chance to finish) and leaving the team in great cap shape. They kept out of FA, in my opinion, to set themselves up for bringing in some FA's this off season as the new regime has done. They set it up very well. Other than that I shed no tears for the loss of them, even Heckert whom I liked.

This new FO gets the raspberries for who they are and what they've done previously combined with the hierarchy they've set up with their "consensus" on player evaluations which defaults to Banner calling the shots rather than having a strong GM making the football decisions.


As I've read the board since the demise of the old regime and now the addition of the new one this is what I think I'm reading.

Me? It's Browns football. I always have hope. This year is no different. I've come from being very wary of these guys to liking the moves so far. I've come from a lack of confidence in them to thinking they just might be able to pull this off if they keep doing well. As I said, I always have hope.

We'll see.

Where is the logical reason for optimism other than this regime hasn't failed yet?

It's a QB driven league. Let's rank the QBs in our division alone.

1. Roth
2. Flacco
3. Dalton
4. Weeden

That's pretty much hard to debate. By virtue of our QB situation alone, we are the 4th best team in a 4 team division.

Why are people getting so giddy about our staff? Who the hell is Chud? Seriously? What is his track record as a head coach? Why do people think being a head coach is so easy? Chud is just going to walk in and be head coach material? I'm not buying it. Horton? Who the hell knows? He talks a big game. Lots of sound bites and cornrows. Still didn't get a head coaching position. He's still Arizona's castoff, and now he's ours. That's cool. Maybe he's good. I sincerely hope that he is. But we won't know until the bullets start flying. Norv? He doesn't have Aikman and Rivers to work with here.

And you know what's funny about our staff? The same people that were giddy about this staff were giddy about Jauron and Rhodes and Whipple and all of our wonderful assistants and consultants from the past regime. It was the same enthusiasm for those 'proven' guys.

What have we done in FA? Signed a question mark in Kruger. I'm not saying I'm unhappy about this signing. I'm not even saying the FO did anything wrong. But it's not like this guy was a perennial All-Pro. Hell, has he even made a Pro Bowl?

Seriously, where is the reason for optimism other than they haven't failed yet? And this has nothing to do with the previous regime. I'm just looking at this objectively. We have the worst QB in the division. Every staff and scheme in the division has been in place a long time except ours. We have an entirely new coaching staff that we really know nothing about ... either because they are taking new positions or because we don't know what their capabilities are with our talent.

I just don't see the reason for optimism. The simple math adds up to another double digit loss season. Haslam said that was unacceptable. Now he's making statements alluding to the fact that we shouldn't expect too much too soon. Nice 180.

You can go ahead and bash away and try to spin this anyway you want. This has nothing to do with the past regime. This is me looking forward and this is what I see. I would love to be wrong, and I hope I am. But you need a great QB and a great HC to win in this league. We have neither.

Maybe you're just asking for people to have hope and faith. Ok, I actually respect that. But it is blind hope and faith ... and that's a key word in that sentence ... blind ... you should recognize that's what it is and go a little easy on the people who don't have the same blind hope and faith that you have.

At the end of the day, it brings me no joy to write what I just wrote. Like most on here, I love the Browns. I want them to win so badly I can taste it. I want to cry like a baby when we make the Super Bowl, then store up the tears for another flood after we win it. But the NFL is a very simple formula. And until we nail the two most important positions, we won't be winning any time soon.

Well said, ddubia.

Good posts dub and Rish,

they reflect what I am thinking. As you can see in my sig, I had 0% trust level in the "structure" of this FO...a couple of good moves/non moves have upped that a bit, but it's stalling again now, probably until the draft, which to me will be the real litmus test.

If Banner was man enough to keep Heckert, who did exactly what he said, the way he said it, then I would probably be the biggest homer and build him a shrine...instead, he did his own nepotism-move by bringing in his failed buddy Lombardi....and that one isn't just fan perception. If you did a secret poll among NFL people about who's better, I'm not even sure Lombardi would get one single vote (maybe from a cynic like Belly, who needs a new Al Davis to rip off during the offseason...which btw he's already setting up with Mallett).

Another VERY important thing, at least for me, as many fans quickly forget what they've been told....we were told that we'd either get the structure of a "strong", vet HC and a "lesser" GM or vice versa...turns out, we got neither. We got a 1st time HC and a re-tread, "lesser" GM....that was the first talking the talk without walking it that drew a flag for BS.
So, who do you think has that power now, who's that "strong" guy we were promised? My guess was well before and got proved that it's Banner, who probably over-estimates his own capabilities....all of that has nothing to do with the past regime. We got straight up lied into our faces, so why should I not be worried? We don't have a "strong" HC, and we don't have a "strong" GM...and to me that looks like a downgrade in terms of franchise structure. We have great guys in the background, always had for some time now: Coordinators, staff, even Spytek's scouts etc...but we're still weak and unproven where it matters most: Owner, CEO/VP, GM and HC...a bunch of newbies and re-treads is what I see there and that's where most of my skepticism stems from

Although I am a little higher on Weeden than you are I cannot disagree with a thing you said.

I have always been willing to give a new FO the benefit of the doubt. Such will be the case with this group. But that doesn't mean I think they'll be successful. I hope they will, but the combo of Banner and Lombardi scares the hell out of me. I don't know why this combo wouldn't scare any sane person.

I'm with ya, Rish.

Good post, dd. Very logical and rational. I understand why you believe the things you do, but I do disagree w/you on a few points.

--I like the Banner hire. He has experience as a Team President. His teams in Philly won a lot of games and were a perennial playoff team and even Super Bowl contender.

--How much experience did Holmgren have in the front office? How successful was he in the FO? Was he EVER a team president? Yet, people were confident in him. Why? Because he had a recognizable name. Sorry bro, but I prefer Banner's record as a team president over The Big Show's.

--You say Banner lied. What kind of lie was that? Was it as bad as saying "I woke up this morning and decided to fire Eric?" Was it as "shifty" as only hiring guys who shared the same agent as he did? Was it as bad as taking vacations DURING the season? Was it as gutless as saying the Rams liked Washington better? Was it less honorable than granting Seattle reporters interviews before Cleveland guys. Was it as egotistical as saying: "No, I don't feel any pressure," in a tone dripping w/arrogance?

--You say that no one can deny that Heckert built a sold foundation. I can deny it and do. I think he brought in some decent talent, but I think he left a lot of holes on the roster. We drafted two RBs high. Two QBs high. We drafted multiple receivers high. Yet, we have weaknesses at FS, CB, both Inside and Outside linebackers, FB, and TE. We still need at least one more guard. The QB position is still a mess and this is AFTER drafting a qb in round 3 and another in the first. Three years and we still don't have a QB. I can't see how that is irrefutable proof that this team has a solid foundation. Without a qb, you have very little of a base.

--Bro, you are criticizing our FO for their decisions, yet you fail to mention the coaching staff. I think the "bean counter" has assembled a fine staff. Chud is a bright guy. He has changed his offense to fit his talent. Thank God the days of Holmgren only hiring a guy who ran his version of the WCO are over. Chud gives us flexibility. He is innovative. He is part of the team that makes the decisions. Long gone are the days of Heckert and Holmgren not only making all the picks, but also controlling the roster. Thank God!!!

--Then the "bean counter" hires Norv. Turner was not a very good HC, but he is highly regarded as an OC. He was the top OC out there on everyone's board. He develops QBs. He has productive RBs. His teams score points. He can teach.

--My favorite is Horton. The guy is an up-and-comer who will attract quality FAs. We need to win some games, but guys will want to play in his defense. He is innovative and aggressive. We should finally see pressure on the QB.

--We kept several coaches from the past staff, namely the OL coach---who I greatly respect.

--Not such a bad coaching staff for a "bean counter." Heck dd, there were all kinds of reports that coaches did not even want to come here when The Big Show was here. Yet, you call Banner a "bean counter" and I assume you think that Holmgren is a football guy. I'll take the bean counter's coaching staff.

--Additionally, the "bean counter" has filled in the FO nicely. He brought in Farmer to be part of the decision-makigng team. He has filled PR, financial, etc positions w/quality hires. Guys who are highly regarded in the football world. Give me the "bean counter" over The Big Show.

--I also like how the "bean counter" has set-up the organization. There is a team of men, such as Banner, Lombardi, Farmer, Chud, Norv, and Horton who all decide on what we need, how do we acquire the talent, and who to focus on. I prefer this strategy to one guy doing it w/The Big Show occasionally throwing his substantial weight around and say "go get this guy." While the "bean counter" might not have The Big Show's popularity, he has a specific plan of how things need to be done and I think he has the fortitude to stick w/the plan. Furthermore, his owner is not Junior. He is going to have support from ownership. We will NOT be making changes every couple of years. People are mistakenly thinking that if they complain loud and often enough, that this ownership will make changes. Haslam is not Junior.

--I also think the "bean counter" and company identified what they needed to do most in FA. All during the past season, people were saying we needed an edge rusher above all else. Well, we get one right away and pay less than most thought it would take and yet people still bash the move. Bryant is another outstanding player who will be a great addition to Horton's attacking defense. We need to rotate guys. All defensive line units rotate guys in and out, but we will need to do it even more so because of our aggressive style. The LBer from Arizona is not flashy, but I bet he comes in on obvious passing downs and he can play on both sides. The rest of the signings do nothing for me, but this class sure beats guys like Usama Young and Brandon Jackson. It kills me that people are bashing this FO for not solving all the problems in a month while exonerating the previous FO. That regime had THREE years. The new guys a month. Wow!

With all that said........I enjoyed your post and I am not bashing you at all. It was a good discussion. I am not saying you are wrong and I am right. i think this is the way we should debate. Debate is good. We can learn from each other. I have no problem w/us disagreeing. Take care, my friend.

- you're fighting a windmill with your bashing of Holmgren. Who's defending Holmgren? Who wants him back? We all agreed he sucked....was that clear enough? So if his nepotism hires were horrible, why did I see no mention of Banner hiring his buds Lombardi in your post? Holmgren has been bashed to death well before you got here by pretty much everyone, so you're really beating a dead horse or some carry over trash talk from the old board....it's OLD news around here

- there's evidently disagreement on Heckert's job. No problem. You mention his negatives and I fully agree on the RB and McCoy picks and criticized them at the time, the WR have proven to be worth it so far and still have huge upside left. Was skeptic of them too, but so far have proven me wrong. They've been MUCH better picks than Robo and Massa, so much is already clear. Weeden we disagree and will see. I could be wrong here, but he was worth the gamble imho, but that has also been debated to death here

- I'll at least counter balance that by highlighting his positives. Heckert built a DL from nothing, all that while changing schemes....GMs get fired over not getting an OL or DL fixed, picking 1st rounder after 1st rounder. Heckert invested a late 1st rounder after a trade down, a high 2nd and a couple of mid rounders, who ALL have shown that they belong in this league, with the higher rounders flashing elite stuff here and there already....that's impressive, considering the % of DL busting. He had Rubin when he took the job and has left a full roster of DL with depth.

- He, so far, hit on every 1st and 2nd rounders in his drafts....the 2012 draft could deliver a bust, but that's too early tell, we will know more on that 8-9 months from now. His top picks have all developed and got better since entering the league: Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard, Little, TRich, Weeden, Gordon and Schwartz.....that's at least 7 out of 9, with both TRich and Weeden left to prove it. If one of them makes it it's 8 of 9. I invite you to take a look at the top 2 rounds of the past 3 drafts and see how many busts there are already among those names, so batting 8 of 9, is something every GM would be proud about

I was countering dd's points. He had already praised Heckert and listed perceived negatives about the "bean counter."

I think I am done w/this one, at least for awhile. dd had some really good points. I respected his point of view. I made a rebuttal. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. Just talking football, man. But, I think we covered a lot of it. Time to move on for a bit.

i agree with your points DJ, but you need to add Hardesty to the list of 2nd rounders. i'd say it's 7 out of 10 (counting Hardesty as a "miss" for now because 2nd round RBs should be starting quality, but he showed some good glimpses last year).

Quote:

---

--I like the Banner hire. He has experience as a Team President. His teams in Philly won a lot of games and were a perennial playoff team and even Super Bowl contender.

---

...and if Haslam had hired Banner to run the financial side of the franchise, no one would be complaining.

Banner is a freaking rookie when it comes to running the football side of a franchise, a fact that you have a hard time admitting.

While Banner and Haslam get credit for hiring Chud, you fail to mention their big swing and miss on their number one candidate, Chip Kelly.

Fact is, Chud is a rookie HC and while most, including me, believe he will be a good choice, his hire remains an unknown.

Chud had a close relationship with Norv Turner and Turner was out of work...let's not act like Chud had nothing to do with convincing Turner to join him in Cleveland. The Horton hire...only time will tell if this guy is another Rob Ryan...a guy who does a lot of talking but what his defense produces on the field fall short of the talk.

The real threat I see with Banner is how he treats the players, especially the veterans. Banner earned the title of most hated man in Philly and has no one to blame but himself. In Philly, Banner is seen as the guy who poisoned the Eagles locker room due to the way he treated their players when it came time to resign their own players. Banner's "30 and out rule" is plain NUTS and no other team in the NFL operates under such a standard...and for good reason.

Teams need veteran leadership if they are going to win consistently and Banner still doesn't get it. After Banner was fired in Philly, he took stock of the way he operated and mentioned the need to change how he conducted business with the players. But we see no evidence that Banner has changed, therefore I expect him to become just as hated by the Browns locker room as he was hated by the Eagles locker room.

Again, my bottom line...I don't want to see Banner screw up the 3 years of rebuilding this franchise invested in building the foundation these boys inherited.

j/c

A lot of good release of opinion here. I'd like to note, absorb n expound my thoughts before the thread gets closed (page 8).

I'll start with ownership. For years I've been told how bad of an owner Randy was. I always stuck up for him cause I knew he had the Browns in best interest on all his moves. Regardless of what all told me the biggest myth was how he wasn't willing to spend that one always blew my mind. Sure there were a lot of years that we were like 10 mil under the cap. But if he was as cheap as those who stated he would be like the Bengals owner n wouldn't fire his coaches n FO cause of the guaranteed contracts involved. And trust me that is the only reason they got stability there...lol

I didn't fear Randy. I saw his moves to try to get this right. Get the correct Football guy here. Get that marriage of HC n GM working together. I think he thought he had it right finally when he hired Mangini...that pretty much broke his back in his quest when like 2 months into the first season he had to Fire his GM in this new Regime. I saw him at this point throw up his hands n say...If this couldn't work as I thought it was perfect n it failed so so quick - I GIVE UP. Right then n there he made it clear he was looking for a Czar, pretty much to fire himself n let a Football guy put the pieces together. All with one System n Goals. Heckert was a great hire n I'll get into that later in the Novella...lol It all went sour with the hire of the HC. As this went off the idea that it was all Randy just was wrong. The new plan, system just wasn't going anywhere n I think half the plan was great. Go Young, draft well, lower the cap as it was going to be coming. Build a drafted young foundation then finish it. But our results on the field were HORRIBLE...still yet. Randy fulfilled a promise he gave his father n in hopes of change sold the team. Oh sustaining a nice profit. But he n his family were Long Island Hamptons n London. Utilizing the best private school systems in London for his children. Enjoying the Privacy n fun afforded by the Hamptons. I'm sure he follows the Browns n still is a fan. But he was not eat, sleep n breath Browns football kind of owner.

In comes Haslam...all the Randy Sucks guys reveled in the sale. I feared it cause he had no Browns ties n there will always be a fear of moving the team. Ergo Modell was a TV advertising Mogul from NYC...when he got into money problems he had no problems moving the team (lest all forget for 50mil to go into his pockets). So I feared the sale for that reason n that reason alone. Ok so here is a guy who had been around football n saw a good organization first hand. So we heard the words. His Staff his system n it will be a Long Term patient Continuity that would be brought in. So Ok one more tear em up. I give him that n understand.

His Football guy (Holmgren) was to be hired as the new Czar...dang I thought that was what we were going to experience from Haslam that Randy couldn't give. In comes Banner...there was confusion from the get go...part Owner? just Czar? finally it was confirmed he gave up all reported ownership n was simply the Czar even if it wasn't called that. Unlike some I don't mind the Hunger for Power. Football is best served with a Dictator...not a Koombaya Democracy. I hate the reference cause I have too much respect for the military. But in the long run there is a correlation of Military n Football - training, preparation, game plan n battle. As all those who ever served know...you need that Dictator at top where the flow starts n in all the levels on down.

So Banner is/was Power Hungry...I don't really fear that. I actually prefer that. As long as he maintains Respect from those he commands. As long as he gets results!

The Lombardi snafu...was handled so wrong but I see most blaming Banner - I thought this was more a Haslam snafu as he underestimated the most educated fans in Football. We saw through the Flim Flam - which when I look back was more to deceive the NFL than us regarding the Rooney Rule that covered GM or whatever a team wish to call them HIRE. The plan was always Banner with the Mathematical based theories on running a team needing the football information with many same thoughts on how n who it was a relationship that started in 1998 n was always the plan according to Banner. Him working with the Info that Lombardi could provide him...Success.

Every Frankenstein needs their Egor. Yesss Master.

I didn't like the fact that Heckert was let go. Cause it had everything to do with Power. Not what was best for the Browns Football. But I knew the NEW GUYS Deserve their absolute PLAN to be put in so that We Can FINALLY have CONTINUITY!

As for the Randy/Haslam oh we now will see how a real owner is. That bubble popped for me real quick. As Haslam for good reason had to go back to the Family Business hey his hand picked replacement was running out on them. But it was the words...My True Love. For me that scares the crap out of me. Cause in this economic times you never know what will happen with certain Businesses - His first love is PILOT not the Browns...So when things get tough with "PILOT" What ASSET will be sold for more than a BILLION...n in desperation so that the status of YOU MUST KEEP THE BROWNS IN CLEVELAND will not be a condition of the sale. The Browns leave Cleveland...so does football in my heart. 95-99 I did not follow NFL Football - I golfed on Sundays, I coached Youth Football On Sundays...actually taking on 3 teams (different age groups) at a time so that after Church my entire day was spent at the Youth fields. If it happens again...It only will break my heart forever.

I don't trust Haslam...I even fear success as it would drive up the price/value of the Browns but we have a chance of getting the Brown n Orange in his system...my thoughts on him might change as he becomes a Browns Fanatic!

Now for the vast everything is wrong with the Browns...why should this be anything different we are doomed with no HOPE until it is here then I would HOPE Positive.

I get it. But I see what is happening. The Browns are evolving. Yes, we kept the name n colors...but this was a new team by every sense of the word. Clark did us in...no denying that. Yeah we were screwed by the NFL due to the quick success of Jags n Panthers the old owners complained n got their way. So the deck was a little light - But we were afforded Draft picks for two years to build that young Foundation. Of which one light weight CB n one light weight WR stood the sands of time - two guys under 190 lbs in a big mans game...Clark dug a big time hole that took ages to get out. Thank goodness not the 40 years the Jews had to endure before reaching the promise land!

Finally - with a small assist from Savage - Joe T, DQ n Rubin as well as his successor Mangini who gave us Mack n a Slew of Draft picks amassed which gave us the Clark opportunity back...this time in the hands of Heckert not Clark!!!

First two rounds are the impact rounds...Haden, Ward, Hardesty, Taylor, Sheard, Little, Trent, Weeden, Schwartz and Gordon. 10 Impact players in 3 years. No not all hall of famers...but all good football players n more important Quality in the Big Boys! LOS was finally invested in with a plan...not a token guy here n there. So it took us over 10 years but we finally have that Young Drafted FOUNDATION...we should of had in 2001 laid out by the Expansion system!

That is the Difference in why we should FINALLY see HOPE n Believe this truly has n is happening. Not cause This Time it will Work out of Blind Homerism... But there actually is a solid Football reason why it will Work. And I agree the final puzzle will not be complete until we get that Franchise QB!

Now lets get back to this NEW REGIME.

Why trust the system by Horton by Norv by Chud. We have had good OC's n DC's before why will this work.

Well I am personally thrilled. Is Horton a genius --- maybe maybe not. But his system is what will get us there. I hear the cry...but he will be gone Next year due to the Rooney Rule... Nah...this was CHUD's SYSTEM in mind way before the Horton Hire...Chud aint leaving! Chud told us we will have an ATTACK Defense.

Why do I like it...cause I'm vain n know it all. Well Yeah Seriously, I've been around football for a long time now n on so many levels...from 8year olds to 40 year olds. One consistent I have seen on defense. The best Defense is an Offensive Defense??? What that means is a defense that is set up to ATTACK, to Dictate the game...it is so hard to establish a Defense of Restraint n Discipline. I am a K.I.S.S coach n the more advanced the programs...the more it applies! Simple...there are Gaps you can sit back on your heels in the front seven n play "PREVENT" and yes that is what all those defenses are a Prevent defense - call it what it is. SAFE, Bend but don't Break...don't get off the field...so we can always have the excuse (truth) - Our defense just got too tired. This also would put so much Pressure on the offense. Fazio wanted to ATTACK but he was forever being restrained by Butch.

It was Butch that demanded the PREVENT DEFENSE we played so horribly in the One Playoff game of our New Era. Fazio gave us a glimpse of Attack defense for a couple of seasons n was forever being toned back to the point he got Fired.

That was it...Every Defense we have had here was Read n React since. Restraint. Keep the play in front of you. Discipline which takes so so much continuity to be done to the perfection needed to be a great Defense! The mentality of every...EVERY FOOTBALL PLAYER THAT LOVES DEFENSE...n please go to your Youth Football or HS playing days cause the defensive mentality does NOT CHANGE. You WISH TO ATTACK...it is ARRGGHHH that is in you that makes you love football - Attack n Conquer!!! If you love football n played defense at ANY LEVEL you know what I mean.

K.I.S.S. it - These kids we got All of Them wish to ATTACK! It will not take much to get any of them to BELIEVE to not only believe but LOVE this system. You get a bunch of tough fast young Football Players LOVING to PLAY Every Day...Every SUNDAY! You got a Defense that will easily be Competitive...and fans can rally around n love them. Attack. That is why Horton's K.I.S.S. theory on this is Small guys that can HIT/Tackle...Big Guys who can Run! If you can simply understand this attack theory n SEE why those are the 2 most important virtues regarding this ATTACK Process! Then you ask - WHY ARE YOU EXCITED - Braids? oooh Seattle tooled them - NAH Cause it is SIMPLE, Effective, NATURAL No More Bend but not break mentality Hey so they might score Quickly if it breaks down...Who cares...I'd rather have it quickly than long n drawn out...Whose Defense will get tired! Theirs...We have success we have 3 n outs n a team actually losing ground. O with the ball n their D on the field. We have Failure n they get the score w/big chunks or Big Play! Again our O gets the ball n their D is on the field.

I am tired of having a close game into the 4th n then Losing the HIGH PCT. of them with the same effects. Our Defense gets tired...their Defense seems fresh n stops our O...Our defense still Bends not breaks but with no chance of stopping them...Oh Browns did well cause we beat the spread...Over these years we did so much better against the spread then the W-L record Cause of this Bend don't Break CRAPOLA!!!

This is why I am EXCITED not because of HOMERISM...we finally have a Good Foundation of YOUNG FOOTBALL PLAYERS like no other New Regime we had in the past. We have a strong Influence of the LOS - Like no other new Regime!!! This is so so important.

Offense. Come on have we ever had a more revered OC EVER than Norv Turner???

Again even before the hire the plan spelled out simply by Chud. Vertical Stretch...simple words but something we have not had here since ARIANS...he got it but simply did not have the OL to execute...n he was eventually Fired. I thought Daboll had it in him....but our talent was so minimal for us to get a chance to see it.

The importance of Vertical stretch...again lets K.I.S.S. The KEY = Get the 2nd safety back which means 7 in the box. The only time we saw that last year n they were tight anyways cause we didn't go Vertical stretch last year. But it was the Bengals. And I saw our Offense so much better with 7 in the box. It made our best offensive player Trent Richardson RELEVANT!!! You can make his 2012 hi-light reel against the Bengals. Now actually add Deeper routes getting that 7 in the box but actually "STRETCHED" This leaves short underneath passes with ACTUAL YAC ROOM...this leaves a check down to your STUD RB with YAC room - or your Fast young TEs. Without stretch we got to see the results last year. All of that had a guy on our TE (Cameron) n Trent immediate to have no YAC room.

So personally these are my two favorite Systems for O n D not via any eenie meenie system or what I used in my playing days so love it. Nah...cause they are both Simple n yet effective. Its easy to get results n with continuity it only gets better n better. If continuity is there n perfection is there...Almost impossible to stop.

Pats O...Steelers D - Combine the two. That is what I see here in the making. That is why I am excited. I thank Savage for the few pieces finally worth saving. I thank Mangini for Mack n mega draft picks accrued for our best evaluator to date. I thank Heckert for Building that foundation that we blew all the way back to Clark n Finally made that First Big Move needed for Success! Now its in the hands of the new guys.

Banner - Dictator if he is Smart n knows his stuff this is a good thing not bad.
Lombardi - Not respected here (including me) but one thing you got to give him he is an Information machine n hard hard worker. Important for that Dictator.

Chud - Young but always respected as an Up n Comer bright NFL coach. Spelling out his K.I.S.S. philosophy of an Attack D n Vertical Stretch offense.
OC n DC - Perfect teachers n coaches who believe in the Chud Theory!

Players a good solid foundation of YOUNG Players mostly knowing only The Browns - Believe this is their team. Are not broken down that this is a Business...They Love the Browns as they all loved their College teams! Once gone..FA that bubble is bursted.

We don't have the core of Veterans who if not fitting in this O n D might as well get rid of. Young men 1, 2, 3 years of experience can be molded if they are willing. Again on Defense...pffft what is more willing than a Defensive player being allowed to ATTACK!!!

Offense...Vertical stretch is so Simple that a good flow is imminent - The Youth again don't want this Disciplined Triangle - Clustered everything must be perfect by all to work Offense that we are leaving n going into this Fun Stretched out SIMPLE that can grow to complex theory but can work from the get go...we saw this in 07.

Yes, I am excited about our Browns...not this crap I will or have heard - Sorry NO Credible logic cause I'm always a HOMER.

Hey - I'm a fan HOMER is not a bad thing...it is who I am. But I laid out not EMOTION to blindly follow. I LAID out some pretty Detailed Football.

So please go ahead n disagree with me if you must. But don't minimize my Football by saying IT AIN'T SO CAUSE I'M A HOMER! Come back at me with some Football discussion Thanks in Advance.

JMHO n Heck yeah HOMERISTIC Emotions but I backed it with LOGIC n FOOTBALL up for discussion

Thanks for the time you spent writing that. I enjoyed reading it.

can you send this to Grimes Agent?

thank you for taking the time to write this out!

It was a great read with a lot of time and thought put into it.

Quote:

---

While Banner and Haslam get credit for hiring Chud, you fail to mention their big swing and miss on their number one candidate, Chip Kelly.

---

So which is it, good for getting chud, or bad for not getting Kelly?

Personally, I think we got the better guy.

It doesn't matter what you,I or anyone else thinks.The fact is,Haslam and Banner were falling all over themselves to get Kelly.Thankfully he said no.
Who here thinks we would have a good staff with Kelly and Shurmur?though so.
Haslam and Banner hired Chud,who was maybe their third choice.
Without Chud,Turner isn't coming here.Horton? who knows.maybe they introduced him to Chud,or maybe Chud had him in his sights all along.
If the HC doesn't have the freedom to hire his own staff,then that staff is doomed to failure.I don't believe Banner is doing that.
Giving praise to Banner for this staff is like having your cake and eating too.They hired Chud,their second or third choice.

Quote:

---

As for the Randy/Haslam oh we now will see how a real owner is. That bubble popped for me real quick. As Haslam for good reason had to go back to the Family Business hey his hand picked replacement was running out on them. But it was the words...My True Love. For me that scares the crap out of me. Cause in this economic times you never know what will happen with certain Businesses - His first love is PILOT not the Browns...So when things get tough with "PILOT" What ASSET will be sold for more than a BILLION...n in desperation so that the status of YOU MUST KEEP THE BROWNS IN CLEVELAND will not be a condition of the sale. The Browns leave Cleveland...so does football in my heart. 95-99 I did not follow NFL Football - I golfed on Sundays, I coached Youth Football On Sundays...actually taking on 3 teams (different age groups) at a time so that after Church my entire day was spent at the Youth fields. If it happens again...It only will break my heart forever.

---

EO...many will look at your words, which I highlighted in red and believe you can't be serious, suggesting the Browns could be moved.

Well, a little more on that subject which surely caught my eye when I was researching Banner's background...

I found this, written on June 7, 2012 from PFT... web page
...................
Per Paolantonio, Banner is interested in joining an ownership group that hopes to buy an NFL team. He said that he is “open to L.A. I don’t want to single them out, but that’s something I think I can do – set up a franchise, help build a stadium, hire a coach, hire good people to build a winning organization.”

Not withstanding Banner’s skills and experience, those opportunities aren’t readily available. Given that Lurie made his money producing movies in Hollywood, Lurie could be in position to help Banner make the appropriate contacts in L.A. Thus, it’s hard not to wonder whether there’s already something in the works that we’ll find out about once it’s official.
.......................................

The teams Banner was interested in...Bills, Browns and Rams.

Browns fans need to face the facts...the members of the investment group that bought the Browns, are first and foremost, "businessmen".

After Haslam's recent actions, returning to his first love, business is #1, not football...and Banner, business has always been his strong suit and what he did best in Philly, football was secondary.

For Banner to utter the words "L.A." knowing the Browns were one of the teams he and his investment group were interested in buying, is blatantly disrespectful to the city of Cleveland and especially all Browns fans.

Those of you who believe the fans need to just trust Haslam and Banner...Art Modell taught me a lesson...never trust those who love business more than football.

Never say never or it can't happen again...Haslam and Banner are businessmen first !!

You're really going out on a limb there.

Quote:

---

Browns fans need to face the facts...the members of the investment group that bought the Browns, are first and foremost, "businessmen".

---

Holy Schmolly.....Mac, business people have been buying football teams since guys like Halas started selling them.


Also. I don't read this as you do. I read the words said and don't add my own thoughts.

Quote:

---

Per Paolantonio, Banner is interested in joining an ownership group that hopes to buy an NFL team. He said that he is “open to L.A. I don’t want to single them out, but that’s something I think I can do – set up a franchise, help build a stadium, hire a coach, hire good people to build a winning organization.”

---

I don't see that as being a part owner or running the show. He joined a ownership group...Haslam and Lerner. He is helping build the group.


As of this point, doing a fine job I might add. IMO.