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Thanx D-Dawg. Is he starter material or rotation? I think G is the weak link in our OL
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Yw, I don't know much about him, just remembered seeing it at browns.com a few days ago.
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j/c Someone please talk me off the edge regarding Avril & Kruger...I simply don't see "it". Avril wants a billion dollars, looks exactly like a 4-3 DE to me, and now he is going to transition to a new position.   Kruger has one decent season and clearly benefitted from Suggs' return. Elite money for a non-elite player? No thanks. Yeah...I know...we need OLBs...I get it. I simply have no interest in converting another team's DE to OLB (How often can veterans effectively make that switch?) and think Kruger is fools gold (Yet might be the best 3-4 OLB on the team the instant we sign him).
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Quote:
Has any mention been made any where that we are looking for OG's?
Also how do I post without a reply?
Just hit reply and then type:
NRTU ( this means not replying to you)
Or
-jc- ( this means Just Clicking)
Other than that you have to reply to someone.
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Are you trying to post a new message with a new topic, then you can do so by going to the index choosing the 'Post' option at the top.
If you're in a current topic (like this one) then you can only post a new message in reply to a previous one.
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And when you reply most of the time it is understood that you are just clicking the last post. If you want to reply directly to a post it is best to quote it. On occasion, what is being posted in reply (w/o quote) is unclear in which case you want to start your post with jc or NRTU.
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Am I trying to be a better person?
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Quote:
Someone please talk me off the edge regarding Avril & Kruger...I simply don't see "it".
Avril wants a billion dollars, looks exactly like a 4-3 DE to me, and now he is going to transition to a new position.
Kruger has one decent season and clearly benefitted from Suggs' return. Elite money for a non-elite player? No thanks.
Yeah...I know...we need OLBs...I get it.
Willie, I agree. Kruger looked like a solid starter on a really good defense. Sure, he might help us, but he wouldn't transform our defense. The money he is looking for is crazy. And at 285, how is he going to be a 3-4 LB? We are basically set on the DL. It is LBs we need.
Avril is overrated, and can't play three downs. It would never hurt to throw Ellerbe in with D-Jax, and then use Gocong, JMJ and maybe a draft pick at OLB.
I actually believe Milliner may fall to us, but if he doesn't, we can drop down and get a starter at CB and maybe recoup the second rounder.
As for free agents, I'd be looking for an OG and a safety.
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J/C
What's there to say Kruger won't be another Bart Scott?
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Quote:
Someone please talk me off the edge regarding Avril & Kruger...I simply don't see "it".
Avril wants a billion dollars, looks exactly like a 4-3 DE to me, and now he is going to transition to a new position.
Kruger has one decent season and clearly benefitted from Suggs' return. Elite money for a non-elite player? No thanks.
Yeah...I know...we need OLBs...I get it.
I simply have no interest in converting another team's DE to OLB (How often can veterans effectively make that switch?) and think Kruger is fools gold (Yet might be the best 3-4 OLB on the team the instant we sign him).
The rumored numbers for both are alarming. Neither guy is an Elite player. I will agree with you on that point.
I thought the same thing about Avril switching to OLB until I did a research and found this:
http://www.nfl.com/player/cliffavril/1330/profile
Positives: Undersized to be any every down defensive end, but he has good upper-body muscle tone, ideal arm length, big hands, tapered thighs and calves, along with the feet, balance and change-of-direction agility to bring better value as a strong-side linebacker...Has exceptional closing speed vs. plays in front of him and the lateral agility to string plays wide...Can impact the pocket coming off the edge, using his sudden burst to slip past a lethargic blocker, but needs to add some more pass rush moves and keep his hands more active when attempting counter moves...Has the agility to bend down the line and cover ground well, showing good urgency closing on the pocket... Gives total effort in his chase and plays with his head up, showing good instincts to find the ball, especially vs. naked bootlegs...Better performer on the move than working through trash and has the balance to quickly redirect and close...Will generate better production standing up, but even with his hand down, if he gets a dip inside, a slower blocker can't recover...Smart player who will have no problem digesting a playbook at multiple positions (down lineman/strong-side linebacker/rush end)...Plays with good aggression and determination, despite being outweighed vs. every opponent...Plays until the whistle and builds acceleration nicely when attacking downfield...Puts in extra hours studying tape of the upcoming opponent and, while a leader by example, he will not hesitate to get vocal in the huddle...His best asset is his initial step off the snap, as he is quick to elude, dip his pads and redirect to plays underneath...Has a good feel for reading blocking keys and is usually in proper position, rarely biting on play-action...Attacks the point with good intent, even when he knows he will be washed out by the bigger blockers...Has good balance, staying on his feet and bounces up quickly when cut...Is quick to react to the play when he locates the ball and has the short-area quickness to spill inside, getting his hands up to deflect passes at the line of scrimmage...Takes good angles coming off the edge and shows good vision to locate the quarterback and flush him out of the pocket...Needs to use his hands more to ward off blocks, but is a slippery type with good avoidance skills on the move...Will sometimes run around blocks, but can stay square in one-on-one encounters...Uses his hands well to keep separation when he keeps them inside his frame...Scrapes to the ball well and has good press ability when playing over the tight end...Prefers using his swim move at the "five" technique to combat turn out blocks, but just needs to do it with better consistency...Carries his pads well, evident in Senior Bowl practices when he constantly chased down ballcarriers on the outside or challenged the QBs on naked bootlegs...Capable of getting very good production making plays from the backside, as he seems to work his hands better there in attempts to shed blockers and fall underneath...Good go-with-the-flow outside run container who can run, slide and move in space to make plays...Will flow too fast and overrun a few plays, but is quick to redirect...Keeps his feet and will sell out to get wide on a play (runs long distances to deliver the hit)...Not a hammer-type of hitter, but can run the field, hit and sell out, showing the body control to break down and wrap up (gets lazy at times and tries to take a side, but showed improvement in rectifying this as a senior)...You won't see too many misses or leaks when tackling, if he keeps his hands inside and pad level true...Shows good anticipation coming off the snap and, when he finds a clean rush lane, he will sell out, go airborne and do whatever is needed to pressure the pocket...Has a natural chop-and-swipe technique off the line, but uses his hands better vs. the run than as a pass rusher...Knows how to change and vary his speed when he breaks free from blockers...Covers ground and closes well from the backside better than he does in-line...Has a decent feel for the blitz and with his speed, he can bring the heat, thanks to good change-of-direction skills that make it difficult for slower linemen to block him. Negatives: Undersized defensive end who converted from outside linebacker early in his junior year and lacks the bulk to face up to the bigger offensive tackles...Can beat a slower offensive lineman off the snap with his hand on the ground, showing a sudden burst, but if the lineman gets his hands locked on, he struggles to shed...Lacks the anchor to maintain ground vs. double teams and can be pushed back when trying to work inside (does have a nifty spin move in-line to beat a lethargic blocker)...Much more effective playing in space and on the move, as he gets absorbed too much by double teams working on the line of scrimmage...Can get the ballcarrier down along the outside, but needs to wrap and get in front of the opponent better, as he tends to grab or take a side (stronger runners like Ohio State's Chris Wells and Wisconsin's P.J. Hill had good success breaking his arm tackles)...Has the speed to impact the pocket coming off the edge, but his pass-rush moves are still raw and he needs to add to those array of moves (has a great spin move, but must be more forceful with his hands on club moves and show better shoulder positioning on rip moves)...Telegraphs his moves coming off the snap and when his hands get outside his frame, blockers can easily neutralize his counter moves...Not strong enough to plug the inside rush lanes as a defensive lineman...Will need time to re-adjust to playing linebacker (must refine his pass drop depth and open his hips quicker to come out of his breaks. Compares To: SHAUN PHILLIPS-San Diego...Earlier in his career, Phillips struggled trying to play with his hand down at the NFL level. When the Chargers moved him to linebacker, they found a dominant force that could also attack the backfield and pressure the pocket. If some NFL team takes that lesson learned by the Chargers and shows patience letting Avril develop at strong-side linebacker, they could be rewarded with a Phillips clone. There is no question that he has the speed to cover receivers in the short-to-intermediate area and if he's not getting pounded by offensive linemen that outweigh him by 50-80 pounds on every play, his level of play could rival that of Phillips and another former Boilermaker, Dallas' Anthony Spencer.
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Quote:
j/c
Someone please talk me off the edge regarding Avril & Kruger...I simply don't see "it".
Avril wants a billion dollars, looks exactly like a 4-3 DE to me, and now he is going to transition to a new position.
Kruger has one decent season and clearly benefitted from Suggs' return. Elite money for a non-elite player? No thanks.
Yeah...I know...we need OLBs...I get it.
I simply have no interest in converting another team's DE to OLB (How often can veterans effectively make that switch?) and think Kruger is fools gold (Yet might be the best 3-4 OLB on the team the instant we sign him).
I don't see it either. Particularly with the amount of money that is surrounding these players. Remember, Avril DECLINED a 3yr/ 30mil deal last year. This guy wants the big bucks, and as far as a 3-4 OLB is concerned, I am not too sure about him. All he did was pass rush and don't think he was great against the run. We'll need that component in our LBs. If we were running the 4-3 and didn't like any draft prospects there, I'd be more about this.
As for Kruger, I lean towards him a bit more as possibly the lesser of two evils (evils being a bad choice of words but you get the point) but not sure, again, about the money he may be demanding. To your point, he had one good year (shocking, it was a contract year  ) and not sure he will repeat it possibly becoming our "best" OLB. And it's not like he had mediocre years, he basically did nothing before 2012. And having Suggs distracting offenses when he came back helped him as well. We won't have that transitioning into the 3-4 yet.
I will say (and this included most of the FAs were allegedly tied too) They are both coming off their first contracts if I'm not mistaken and are young.
I prefer the team to address the #2CB and #3CB, #2ILB alongside DQ, and DE depth in FA; extend Mack & Haden, draft a OLB at #6, and then let Sheard/Gocong battle it out at the other OLB for 2013.
This transition is gonna take time...
Gotta love free agency....One team's trash is another team's treasure.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/10/13 12:19 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Where do folks see JMJ fitting into the 3-4? I assume he's inside with D-Jax, but is he good enough that we don't need to make upgrading a priority?
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Memphis, in all fairness, we dont know why he turned down the 3-30. Maybe it had to do with the garranteed money, or maybe he wanted more yrs. Or its possible he didnt want to continue playing in Detroit.
The money on Kruger scares me a more. What caused the sudden explosion in his game? Did it just start clicking for him, was it just a case that he needed the playing time? Is it just inflated stats because of the team around him? The fact that Indy wants to get him eases my concerns slightly.
Dont get me wrong both would be huge upgrades but man those numbers are scary.
The problem I have with going through the draft is which OLB is worthy of the 6. My preference is Jones but with the health red flag, I dont think I would do it unless we traded back. I am not big on the kid from Oregan. And the Ziggy love I dont get. He is the ultimite Boom/Bust IMO. Too risky at 6.
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Where do folks see JMJ fitting into the 3-4? I assume he's inside with D-Jax, but is he good enough that we don't need to make upgrading a priority?
I see him inside too. If we don't sign an ILB in FA, maybe he'll be given a chance to earn a starting spot. Or if they do sign someone in FA to start, possibly the replacement of DQ in 2014. 
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/10/13 01:00 PM.
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My preference is Jones but with the health red flag, I dont think I would do it unless we traded back.
Go take a look at the article I posted in the draft forum under Jones. This may ease your concerns. But now, he may not be there at 6.
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Thanks for the heads up Memphis, good find. If that article is true, I would go Jones at 6 and let someone else overpay for Kruger and Avril.
Throw that money at Ellerbe, CB (Cason) and S (Goldson).
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With no health concerns, we may have an issue getting Jones at #6 now...
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Just because we have cap space doesnt mean we have to OVERPAY.
If you're the Cleveland Browns, yes it does. Why would anyone come here for the same amount of money when they could go to a better franchise (read: the other 31 franchises in the league). From the outside looking in, the Browns are a picture of dysfunction and it is the place where (since 1999) players go to end their careers. Until we start winning, this stigma won't go away, and we won't start winning until we get some solid players in here. Unfortunately, when you are the lowly Browns, to get those guys, you will have to overpay in order to entice top talent. I'm not saying vastly overpay, but the Browns will have to pay a premium IMO.
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Its possible I guess. I dont see him as a 4-3 end so that takes all but Philly and KC off the board (I think) and I dont think hes the #1 pick. so scratch KC off. Which leaves Philly, unless there is a trade up. I think philly needs to address the OL and takes a LT. Will be interesting to see what teams if any trade up.
I think between Millner and Jones one of them will be there when we pick and if not we may be able to trade down to a team that needs a LT.
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Quote:
Quote:
Just because we have cap space doesnt mean we have to OVERPAY.
If you're the Cleveland Browns, yes it does. Why would anyone come here for the same amount of money when they could go to a better franchise (read: the other 31 franchises in the league). From the outside looking in, the Browns are a picture of dysfunction and it is the place where (since 1999) players go to end their careers. Until we start winning, this stigma won't go away, and we won't start winning until we get some solid players in here. Unfortunately, when you are the lowly Browns, to get those guys, you will have to overpay in order to entice top talent. I'm not saying vastly overpay, but the Browns will have to pay a premium IMO.
Thank you
We haven't earned the right to pay "market value." Our ineptitude has caused this.
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For the dollars being mentioned for both Avril and Krueger, I would go after Avril and get him in a Browns uniform. Wait out Krueger, if he signs elsewhere, for more than we want to pay, oh well.
I would not be surprised, if Avril is a guy that Horton is salivating over, i.e. big man that can run.
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Mary Kay's reporting of our coaching search was embarrassingly poor.
Terry Pluto and the News-Herald's Jeff Sheudel are the best for Browns news. Just my opinion.
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I can't see us going for both Avril and Kruger. I would suspect that we will try to determine which best fits our need at OLB, and sign him. If Sheard is going to be an OLB, then why would we go after 2 OLB? Avril has to be an OLB in our scheme, and he played that in school .... and has said that he is open to moving back to OLB.
The way I see it, we'll probably go after 2 or 3 (absolute max) front line free agents. We'll then probably try to sign 3-4 mid range type free agents ...... competent players ..... young players who fit our schemes, and so on .... but not bank breaking types.
I would guess that our money will start at OLB and CB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree Ytown. Throw big money at a OLB and CB. Then hopefully get an average competent FS along with a rotational DE.
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I would guess we start at OLB and CB ...... then move on to S, TE, WR and maybe backup QB in the 2nd "tier" of free agency. I suspect that we will work with what we have at ILB, and on the OL. We probably look for a FB too, but that's probably a late round draft pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I like the Brinkley kid from Minnasota @ ILB, but I don't know if he is restricted or not ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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If Sheard is going to be an OLB, then why would we go after 2 OLB?
Key word is if. Perhaps it has been determined that Sheard will not be able to convert to OLb. in which case we get 2 OLb's and trade Sheard for a 2nd round pick to some 4-3 team.
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http://www.kffl.com/team/13/nflBrowns | Expected to be in bidding war for Paul Kruger Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:20:30 -0700 The Cleveland Browns are expected to be in a bidding war with the Indianapolis Colts for free-agent LB Paul Kruger (Ravens) once free agency begins. Share: | Source: The Baltimore Sun - Aaron Wilson
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Here we go again
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Quote:
http://www.kffl.com/team/13/nfl
Browns | Expected to be in bidding war for Paul Kruger
Sun, 10 Mar 2013 14:20:30 -0700
The Cleveland Browns are expected to be in a bidding war with the Indianapolis Colts for free-agent LB Paul Kruger (Ravens) once free agency begins.
Share: | Source: The Baltimore Sun - Aaron Wilson
C'mon Indy. Open the Brinks Truck.
And Avril can go elsewhere also.
We can do some serious damage and also start re-upping Haden and Mack if we go into the draft with our #1 glaring need being OLB.
3 of them are in the Top 10 Best Available Players and one will be there at 6.
Get Ellerbe if we can and beef up CB and FS. Get the DE if we deem it necessary and land TE Myers. Then go to the draft.
Jones/Jordan/Ansah. Younger and cheaper.
That's solid Salary Cap manipulation and no 10M+ a year BS.
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Quote:
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If Sheard is going to be an OLB, then why would we go after 2 OLB?
Key word is if. Perhaps it has been determined that Sheard will not be able to convert to OLb. in which case we get 2 OLb's and trade Sheard for a 2nd round pick to some 4-3 team.
Here's a "Coup" for ya'.
Cleveland Browns:
March 8: Brian Baldinger revealed that Michael Lombardi is a big fan of Jarvis Jones. Whether or not Lombardi told Balinger this before Jones' medical red flags at the Combine is unknown.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2013rumorsteams.php
What would we look like with Kruger on one side and Jones on the other? Never really thought about that but you could be right concerning Sheard.
Holy-Moly. Now that I could get into. Kruger IMO needs someone opposite of him just as he did with Suggs. The escalation in production is undeniable.
Just thinking loudly here.
Kruger
Ellerbe 6M
Cason and Toler both=8M
Glover Quin
Jarvis Jones.
3rd Round OG
Myers TE
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Jones' medical red flags at the Combine
Jones has had a medical red flag since his freshman year at USC.
also, I agree with you on drafting an OLB. However, we still need to sign one as well IMO.
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Jones' medical red flags at the Combine
Jones has had a medical red flag since his freshman year at USC.
also, I agree with you on drafting an OLB. However, we still need to sign one as well IMO.
That's why Ziggy makes the most sense to me at #6, assuming Milliner isn't there. JMHO
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It's going to be very interesting...watching how these four top OLB candidates develop throughout their careers. Jones, Jordan, Ansah, and Mingo...all top-10 prospects, none of them perfect. It's not likely all four will have successful careers. Over time the intrigue will be to see which team picked the wrong guy.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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yeah, I was on the Damontre Moore bandwagon but his combine and pro-day numbers are crazy bad. You cannot put a ton of stock in those numbers, but it's pass/fail. And he failed.
it is absolutely crazy how many OLB candidates there are this year and that none of them are slam dunk picks. going to make for an interesting draft at least.
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Did I miss something? His only Pro day numbers I have are a much improved bench (19) and a 4.37 short shuttle and that's pretty good, for comparisons sake, here are some combine results:
Ansah 4.26
the "crazy athletic" Jordan 4.35
M. Hunt 4.51
Lemonier 4.4
Werner 4.4
Mingo 4.39
#gmstrong
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Over time the intrigue will be to see which team picked the wrong guy.
I'm honestly only interested in seeing us get it right.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
yeah, I was on the Damontre Moore bandwagon but his combine and pro-day numbers are crazy bad. You cannot put a ton of stock in those numbers, but it's pass/fail. And he failed.
it is absolutely crazy how many OLB candidates there are this year and that none of them are slam dunk picks. going to make for an interesting draft at least.
You're right. It'll be interesting to see if Banner can find some idiot to trade down with. If Milliner isn't there at 6, I'd be okay giving up the slot to move to the middle of the 1st round just because there are no clear cut "must haves".
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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perhaps I am being overly harsh, but getting 12 then 19 reps for a 3-4 OLB doesn't seem very good for a guy who also wasn't fast (4.94 40time and couldn't re-run at the pro day). All reports I had seen were that scouts, etc. were underwhelmed by his pro-day: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...23504--nfl.html
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Thanks for the article, which actually stated that he looked much better in his agility drills...and to me those are more important for conversion players than the forty. His 7.05 3cone was as good and better than some other's at the combine (Ansah 7.11) and absolutely qualifies for a OLB switch...I'd still take him over Jones, Jordan or Mingo anywhere in the 1st and def after a trade down
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"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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