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So, after Josh signs with AZ, Maiava left, and Dawson doesn't look to being brought back (nor MoMass), the only Cleveland Browns that were on the team for the 2009 season (after first Mangini draft) and are signed for 2013:
Rubin
DQ
JoeT
Mack
4 out of 53 remain from just 4 seasons ago.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 03/14/13 12:26 AM.
#gmstrong
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Maiava wasn't cut. His contract was up. Doesn't change your point...just saying.
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thanks and it's fixed now.
also changing in this time:
new starting QB week1 each year
3 Head coaches
3 GMs
3-4 defense, then 4-3, now 3-4 again
Power-run offense to WCO to Air Coryell Offense (adjusted to spread)
2 owners
It is absolutely mind-boggling the differences and churn that we have had in the past 4+ years.
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And yet some still wonder why we're a joke of a franchise.
Call me when we've had the same owner/HC/QB/defensive scheme for more than 3 seasons.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Has anyone heard anything about Phil?
I'm still hoping he returns but I haven't heard his name tied to anyone including us to this point.
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I sincerely believe  that this young team and new FO is the beginning of a long term consistency. No, really!  I'm serious! 
Last edited by rockdogg; 03/14/13 06:02 AM.
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Dang, kinda like a verse from a John Prine song.... "I could build me a castle of memories just to have somewhere to go" Hope springs eternal. Perhaps they get it right this go round. 
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein" ~Joe Theismann~
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My elation over the departure of Lerner is gone. Our splash in the free agent market this year has been more like a rain drop falling in the Pacific Ocean.
Phil Dawson has won more games for us since 1999 then anyone else in our most recent history. He's a prolific champion and we've kicked him to the curb. He's a club record holder and a team personality as well as a damn good ball player.
Exit Josh Cribbs another fantastic player with a meager price tag who is an NFL record holder and even offered to take a pay cut to stay with his beloved Browns.
So the new guy comes in, takes over the team, cleans out the front office, sells the naming rights to the stadium, clears away whatever semblance we have had as an identity or unique character, retires back to his truckstops and here we sit again with our proverbial phallus in our fingers.
So far, Haslam has been as exciting as digital prostate exam and not nearly as important as daily flossing.
Same old same old on the lake and all I can says is, I hope the torment is excruciating in the eternal abode for you and $teinbrenner, Art.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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The problem with Josh is that he insists he is a WR. Which of our WR's would you sit to play Josh?
I dont believe we "kicked Dawson to the curb". How do you know what was offered to him? It seems like the vibe from him is that he wants to move to Texas, but I dont know for sure.
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Quote:
Has anyone heard anything about Phil?
I'm still hoping he returns but I haven't heard his name tied to anyone including us to this point.
Banner was asked about it yesterday in the Presser where the introduced Kruger..
he said he wasn't commenting on that at this point (or something like that)
Anyway he's not saying if they are talking to Phil or not.. no status report.
And as of this morning, Cribbs hasn't signed with Arizona... sounds like it's going to happen but not yet.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Keep Phil. If someone replaces Cribbs, so be it. I really think he could be more with Norv, and hasn't had a great chance to show with our myopic offense as called week in and week out. SO I would like to see it for Josh. He has been a standout returner. But this is his last call probably. My best to him wherever he lands. He is a player. But Dawson is a keeper, kicks well on the pond, and has been a steady contributor. Call me sentimental to a fault, but he should retire as a Brown IMO. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
Keep Phil. If someone replaces Cribbs, so be it. I really think he could be more with Norv, and hasn't had a great chance to show with our myopic offense as called week in and week out. SO I would like to see it for Josh. He has been a standout returner. But this is his last call probably. My best to him wherever he lands. He is a player. But Dawson is a keeper, kicks well on the pond, and has been a steady contributor. Call me sentimental to a fault, but he should retire as a Brown IMO.
I think you'll find most people would agree with you on all that Bard. I do
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I hope he does too, but thats up to Phil more than anything.
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What might be hurting Phil Dawson is the money the Niners are spending on Anquan Boldin, who unexpectedly became available to them. Its 6 million on the cap that they weren't counting on spending, and may have budgeted elsewhere.
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Quote:
The problem with Josh is that he insists he is a WR. Which of our WR's would you sit to play Josh?
I dont believe we "kicked Dawson to the curb". How do you know what was offered to him? It seems like the vibe from him is that he wants to move to Texas, but I dont know for sure.
Maybe he's just tired of losing. He might be over paid as a kicker, but as far as the 'new' Browns are concerned, he is a prolific offensive powerhouse.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Quote:
The problem with Josh is that he insists he is a WR. Which of our WR's would you sit to play Josh?
I dont believe we "kicked Dawson to the curb". How do you know what was offered to him? It seems like the vibe from him is that he wants to move to Texas, but I dont know for sure.
What wide receiver would I sit? As far as I know, we only have one or maybe two WR's. The rest are bunk. 
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Same old same old on the lake
I disagree. We seem to have a solid nucleus of young players for the first time in these 13 going on 14 years. Think about how bad our nucleus was in 2009 for only 3 to remain (the 4th being a Mangini draft pick). And, we cannot even claim he just cut malcontents because Winslow Jr. and Braylon have failed to thrive anywhere else.
I hope we are on the correct track. I don't know it, but I hope it. I started this thread to point out how we have gotten to this point and also that if we don't stop (or at least slow down) this merry-go-round we are going to continue to lose.
Is there a shining example to point towards? Well, yes, there actually is. The SF 49ers went through about as much turmoil, while restocking on young players. They finally found their coach in Harbaugh and the young pieces were in place for him to compete. I don't think we are quite there yet (defensive secondary is still a mess), but that is the road that my hope lies on.
#gmstrong
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Yeah I agree. It was not pretty, in fact pretty ugly if you ask me, but it needed to be done.
This roster is on the upswing. It's set up for someone to take over and make something good out of it. Obviously we had good cap space this year. Add in the draft and the fact that the roster is mostly players 1-3 years into the league, it's ready to blossom.
Holmgren deserves a lot of blame for a lot of things, but his people did a very good job setting this franchise up for the future.
I think Jimmy Haslam coming in is huge too. I think he will be more visible with the team, at the complex, and at games, but far away enough to where he's not Jerry Jones.
I feel like if our time was ever coming, it might be pretty soon.
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Gee, you're a positive guy.  I don't get why so many posters are putting the Phil Dawson thing squarely on the FO? Phil, for the past few years, has been wanting to leave Cleveland. He was publicly upset that we franchised him. How are we going to sign him if he doesn't want to be here?
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Dawson was upset about the franchise tag for the same reason every player is upset about the franchise tag: they want multi-year deals. Not because he wanted to leave Cleveland.
I understand the Cribbs thing being that he's getting up in age and rule changes have negated many of his strengths. Still, if he returned tomorrow he'd be the best WR not named Gordon or Little (Benjamin has to prove that he can catch consistently), and it makes me scratch my head a little that we won't give a guy like that $1.5 million a year but we will pony up for Chris Ogbonnaya.
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Quote:
I understand the Cribbs thing being that he's getting up in age and rule changes have negated many of his strengths. Still, if he returned tomorrow he'd be the best WR not named Gordon or Little (Benjamin has to prove that he can catch consistently), and it makes me scratch my head a little that we won't give a guy like that $1.5 million a year but we will pony up for Chris Ogbonnaya.
Is that what he signed for? My impression was that he wanted WR pay and a WR position. I have no problem with paying him, but I dont think he was going to be a receiver on this team anymore.
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Who, Cribbs or Ogbonnaya? Cribbs wanted something in the $1.5-2 million/year range I believe, and also said he'd take a small base salary with incentives. Ogbonnaya contract terms not yet disclosed but on a two-year deal I'd be surprised if its worth less than $2 million.
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Phil has made it known that he wants to play closer to home.
I hope we keep the guy. He's great. But, he isn't going to stay here if he doesn't want to be here.
I am saying that this is WAY more about Phil than the FO!
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Well we know Texas teams have kickers That would leave Zona? Saints? outside of that similar travel back to home.
I think the fact he has not been signed is that he left with an offer from us in hand n would like to sign with us n finish his career here but for obvious reasons - Location n $$$ to check what is out there. So I still have hope for him staying. We have not burnt any bridges n signed somebody - just a leg who was in our camp last year. Need more than one leg in Camp.
Joe T, DQ, Rubin all from Savage - Mack from Mangini I think is indicative of what was wrong with this franchise. Not only the CHANGE or lack of continuity. But the very poor drafting we had to endure. Again...he's gone but I will always be thankful to Heckert for getting a good Foundation that we will have here to build on n a lot more than 4 staying for their 2nd contracts! Plus this CASH COW we got for FA n upcoming contracts 
Meanwhile...I'm liking Banner more n more - Dictator in Football is actually a good thing if you got a smart football guy as the Dictator. My fear for Banner in that role is slowly going away...So far Looking to be a VAST IMPROVEMENT from Holmgren. Love the new direction and Regime so far!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Well we know Texas teams have kickers
not really. Graham has now been on 6 teams in the past 4 years and was widely considered one of the weakest links on the Texans team last season.
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Quote:
Phil has made it known that he wants to play closer to home.
I can't recall that ever being anything more than speculation by third parties after he moved his family back to Texas following the end of his last multi-year deal.
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We don't have to agree, Adam. No problem.
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yeah...not great but efficient - what is their Cap position.
Just don't hear any talk on Dawson a Pro Bowl Kicker as in talking with so n so - visiting so n so. Also I don't see us scrambling bringing in kickers to try out?
Stop trying to bust my bubble...lol 
j/k...thanks for the input
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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yeah, kickers are low on every team's list right now. the margin between the best and the worst is pretty slim and they are such slight cap hits they don't have to worry about budgeting them in. I want dawson back. he's the one guy who has been through all of this with us and I don't want to see him finish his career in any other uniform. i realize that's selfish, but I don't care at the same time, if he gets to go back to Houston, then I'll gladly cheer him on. if the Browns are not a SB team this year (hehe), then I'd gladly take the Texans to win the AFC (other obvious options seem to be: Broncos, Pats, Colts, Bengals?).
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We don't have to agree, Adam. No problem.
I know. Just saying I don't ever recall it. I could very well be wrong.
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Perhaps they get it right this go round.
How long? How long must we sing this song....?
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Just keep singin' until we get there. Do not weaken!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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And yet some still wonder why we're a joke of a franchise.
Call me when we've had the same owner/HC/QB/defensive scheme for more than 3 seasons.
1. Who was still wondering about how good we've been since '99?
2. Does this mean you'll take your negativity and stay away from the boards for at least the next three seasons?
3. What number should someone call to notify you of the same owner, HC, QB and defensive scheme?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
Quote:
Phil has made it known that he wants to play closer to home.
I can't recall that ever being anything more than speculation by third parties after he moved his family back to Texas following the end of his last multi-year deal.
in the interviews over the years, it's been pretty obvious that Phil would jump at the chance to play for Dallas. and, who could blame him to want to play for his boyhood team?
here's the interview from before last year's Cowboy game:
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/11/16...t-once-beloved/
but, they have Bailey, who is young and good. so, they are not going to be shopping for a kicker.
i agree that the thoughts on Houston are pure speculation because of how much he likes that his family can come down and watch him play.
===============================
the other side of the coin is that Dawson really wants Groza's record for most points in Browns history (he already has the most FGs record)
http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2012/...-grozas-record/
Last edited by no_logo_required; 03/14/13 11:11 AM.
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I have no doubt that if the Cowboys called up Phil in free agency and made him a deal that he would take it. Like you said, who wouldn't? But we both know that that's hardly the same as actively desiring to leave the team so that he can go elsewhere.
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ok, I see where you are coming from and I would agree. Groza's record means too much to him to think he wants to leave.
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Quote:
Phil has made it known that he wants to play closer to home.
I hope we keep the guy. He's great. But, he isn't going to stay here if he doesn't want to be here.
I am saying that this is WAY more about Phil than the FO!
Phil made it clear that he wanted a long term contract the last two years and he didn't get it. He also made it clear he still wants one now. Of course now he is looking for a three year contract not a 4 or 5 year one.He also has made it clear he wanted to finish out his career in Cleveland, so if he is not resigned it's not his fault. The blame has to be laid on the front office the last two years, and the current front office this season.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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That's actually a pretty disturbing statistic when you think about it...Only 4 players are still on the team that were on it four seasons ago...That tells you how bad the drafting has been around here. I will still never get over that 2009 draft, with a 1st round pick and three 2nd round picks...Alex Mack has been solid, but we could have taken Clay Matthews in the 1st round, Mike Wallace and LeSean McCoy all in the 2nd round.
Anyway, that is beyond the point.
Let's hope moving forward, the guys we have now that are our best players are Browns lifers...Sheard, Taylor, Ward, Haden, Jackson, Mack, Schwartz, Thomas, Richardson, ect...
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
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Gee, you're a positive guy.
I don't get why so many posters are putting the Phil Dawson thing squarely on the FO? Phil, for the past few years, has been wanting to leave Cleveland. He was publicly upset that we franchised him. How are we going to sign him if he doesn't want to be here?
Phil has never ever publicly said he wanted out of Cleveland. He has said he wanted a long term deal. And he hasn't ever said he wanted to stay in Cleveland either.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Well , personally I have always liked Dawson and would love to see him finish his career in Cleveland....That said , without reading this whole thread , it appears that he is being accused of talking out of both sides of his ***....IMHO , only IF that is true and the back & forth to get him resigned is just Not worth our effort would I let him go....Otherwise I would sign him ASAP....He is on track to be the best kicker statistically in Browns History....Unless there is a SERIOUS rift between him and the Front Office , I just don't see how we could let him go.
The Mammal
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