|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229 |
Quote:
Quote:
That's cool about the suits. If you didn't want to sound big shotty you wouldn't have told me that you don't want to sound that way.
That's probably true. A few martinis sometimes do the talking. Not too big to admit that. Sorry if it came over as a put down, that wasn't the intent, though in retrospect I wish I had worded things differently. I think I am a much better poster in the AM over the PM.
The intent was to show the Browns have the money and don't have to be the first guy to the table. In our case, being last is the advantage.
Now if we haven't made it know to X,Y,and Z's agents we have an interest and encourage them to call us once they start getting offers.....yep, that's a problem.
Again, sorry if I offended you.
it's all good. I have thick skin 
I kinda figured that you were going down that alley. I do think that: if you have then money and you know you will be required to spend it, you know that next year other teams will have massive amounts of it to spend as well you should at least look at the good players. Since our 4 signings I have only heard of 1 player being brought in.
Why wouldn't you spend it on players that will be a good fit for this team this year instead of next year when we are fighting other teams to spend their money and the whole league is offering massively bloated contracts to spend spend spend and get close to that cap number?
IMO this will end up getting messy next year when we have to offer players 5--10 million dollar front loaded contracts to get up in numbers.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Ok, enough of this revisionists history crap. Get off the fence and please list, player by player, the "foundation players" pre-Heckert and post-Heckert.
You do know that the "post-Heckert" era is exactly 12-days old and hasn't even reached it's first draft, right? 
I don't know what the term would be, but you've just taken a shot at a regime for not doing something when they've had exactly one small part of a free agency period and NO DRAFT to acquire players. Brilliant!  Revisionist-Future, maybe? 
Sure, we have some foundation players here now that we didn't have 4 years ago. That doesn't at ALL mean the previous regime was a success. Most regime changes come along with foundation players from the previous regime that failed. We just sucked so badly thanks to Mangini and Savage that decent starters or kids with potential end up looking like rock-stars. Furthermore, that doesn't take into account the lack of positive work they did in free agency. "Starters" like Young, Brown, and Rucker didn't do anything to make this team a winner.
Then there was the selection of the QB's, and the belief and support of guys named Mangini and Shurmur. Those were failed decisions as well.
It takes much more than a few solid additions in the draft for a regime to be called successful.
Nobody around the NFL is calling what Holmgren did here a success. In fact, most are saying otherwise:
Quote:
Holmgren Era with Browns a FAILURE
I remember being annoyed and even angry with certain Cleveland Browns fans who were calling into local sports talk radio three Decembers ago in order to complain about Mike Holmgren, who had recently been hired as the team's new president. Such disgruntled individuals were quick to point out that Holmgren was a front office flop while with the Seattle Seahawks, that he had zero real intentions of ever coaching the Browns, and that owner Randy Lerner had been "conned" into making the move based only on Holmgren's reputation as a head coach. They refused to buy into the hype until proven otherwise.
Every one of them was right.
All breakdowns and statistical analysis aside, the Holmgren era of the Browns can be summed up with a single word: Failure.
Quote:
Browns better off without Holmgren
he longer Mike Holmgren is away from the Browns, the clearer it becomes how he not only failed to build the football side into a winner but stunted its growth during his three years as team president.
Quote:
CBSsports
Mike Holmgren is gone and this is the best way to describe his tenure: an utter, complete disaster.
Sadly, when doing a search on Holmgren, all I typed in was: Holmgren success in Cleveland. I wonder what I would have found had I typed in the word "failure."
I could go on but all that'll do is depress me.
When uttering the words "revision history" you better put down the mirror because you won't like what you see.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
good post, superbowldogg.
Can someone tell me what the risk/fear is with 1 year free agent deals???
I understand avoiding the 5 year deals. But I don't see the harm in a short deal. There are plenty out there every year. I don't support leaving $15 on the sidelines when we can get guys that might make this team better without impacting the 2014 cap at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
good post, superbowldogg.
Can someone tell me what the risk/fear is with 1 year free agent deals???
I understand avoiding the 5 year deals. But I don't see the harm in a short deal. There are plenty out there every year. I don't support leaving $15 on the sidelines when we can get guys that might make this team better without impacting the 2014 cap at all.
I don't think you want to make that part of your philosophy. Guys coming in for a year with an eye already on free agency. When it's your own guys who have been there for years, that's one thing, but I don't think you want too much of that, especially new guys.
I'm not totally against it, but I'm not going to fill my needs with a bunch of rentals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Cmon Toad, don't hide behind some sportswriters, we want to know what YOU think
player-by.player Toad, I'm waiting
and saying that Brown and Rucker were not good doesn't make it true. I wasn't a huge S.Brown fan, but by all accounts he had a pretty solid season as a no2 CB (struggled as a no1, go figure). I trashed you about Rucker in your laughable triumvirate thread, apparently you haven't leanred your lesson. He too had an above AVG season
Btw, I do consider Holmgren and Shurmur to be failures, so I guess that makes the past regime a failure...but unlike you and Vers, I don't think in "regimes" or "W-L" records....weren't you the "shades of grey" one?, guess the black and white is cool for your agenda now? Damn board hipsters
I think in individuals, who are either good, bad or AVG in what they do...CEO's, players or GMs. The only guy I cared for from the old regime was Heckert, and you know that. I think we have a better coaching staff now, but we've regressed at GM...so, short term we should see a bump since a GM's work (or lack thereof) will show itself with latency....in that regard I think this ne regime will take a nice sunbath with Heckert's guys producing. We will see how sustainable their work is though 2-3 years from now, just as we've seen the start of Heckert's last season, which to me was close to the 2007 season, just without the luck, experience and easy schedule. For me, both those Browns teams were .500 teams in raw talent, but this roster was much younger and has considerably more upside left
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
FWIW, most 1 year deals are players re-signing with their old teams like Munnerlyn or vets going to a contender like Dawson
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Quote:
but I don't think you want too much of that, especially new guys.
I'm not totally against it, but I'm not going to fill my needs with a bunch of rentals.
No, you don't want "too much." Even 1 CB, maybe 1 FS. Spots of the greatest weakness, add some depth so UDFAs and raw rookies aren't thrown in after an injury. Some competition and veteran leadership. Plus, some leverage in the draft so we're not scrambling for starters. If they don' work, cut 'em. Done.
And its not necessarily a rental. If these guys perform, we've got the leg-up for an extension. Negotiate \when no one else can. Or if they like the coaches and the system, they just might want to come back.
I'm not expecting to find the solution to all of our problems in a 1 year deal. Just looking to avoid UDFAs and 7th rounders starting when they are barely worthy of the 53rd spot on the roster. We need depth, its out there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Quote:
FWIW, most 1 year deals are players re-signing with their old teams like Munnerlyn or vets going to a contender like Dawson
For the most part, and there's also a lot of head-cases and injury-prone guys trying to comeback. I know we're not talking slam-dunks.
But there have been options the last 2 years and there still are in this market. I'm not big on Captain, but we could have gotten him for the right price without any impact on the 2014 cap. And he's young.
If it came down to it, would you prefer a guy like Munnerlyn or a 6th round rookie playing CB against Pittsburgh next year?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Still trying to pedal a few good draft picks as an entire foundation to state a regime was good, eh? Sorry, the dopes may fall for that one but not me. I always thought you were smarter than to try and take a play from Mac's playbook.
You still think Rucker had a good season. I'm embarrassed for you. Where's the big rush to get him in free agency? Where's the $20 million dollar deal?  He had such a great year, and is such a great player, I mean C'mon...why aren't teams signing him? THE DUDE HASN'T EVEN BEEN INVITED TO VISIT ONE SINGLE TEAM.
Here, let me help you: Quote:
www.profootballfocus.com
Frostee Rucker was the 52nd-rated 4-3 defensive end this season, according to Pro Football Focus.
That is FIFTY-SECOND for those that missed it.
Sheldon Brown's wheels were going when we got him and they got worse as the year's went on. He was a good tackler but not a good cover-man.
No comment about Young? I wouldn't have either.
Listen, I'm not going to continue down this road. You can Poo-Poo the people who get paid to talk and evaluate the NFL if you wish, but the overwhelming consensus states Holmgren's regime was a big failure, and a few well-selected draft picks aren't going to change that fact. From backing Mangini and Shurmur to hoarding money in free agency to backing guys named Delhomme, McCoy, Wallace, and the Methuselah-esque Weeden...Holmgren's report card is ugly, and the NFL world knows it.
If I were you I'd take a page from Mark McGuire's playbook, not talk about the past, and just look towards the future. You're attempts to revise history are as successful as the man's tenure you're trying to defend. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I got Rucker and Parker mixed up, so stop the caps on party ...Rucker was AVG on his good days, but Parker ofset that with well above league AVG play....strange enough you left him out in your PFF quoting rage: he had a +8.2, but I'm sure you looked up and then decided to not post it, yeah...decent agenda work I guess They were one player and produced above AVG compared to 3down 4-3 RDE (9.5 sacks, 3 FF and tons of tackles), we've been there and you never had a counter when faced with that, so let's not get there again....be happy we switched schemes and it was an effective stop gap move....you whiffed badly when you put that thread up and were reluctant to ever go there again, when their play got better with every week, we've all seen that and I've been kind to not have bumped that thread on a weekly basis, but looking at how you still try to sneak in that revisionist crap in, I should have done it, my bad I guess ...and why should I comment on Young? I trashed him the past 2 years on a weekly basis, and you know it, so why even act as if I'm trying to "hide" him or anything? Is this kindergarden? Unlike you I'm not into playing a regime pissing match, you must have missed that part...Heckert wasn't perfect and he did enough moves I criticized him for too, but overall he was a good, competent GM, that's my opinion and that obviously isn't yours, cool if you think that Banner/Lombardi can be better, I hope they are, but I'm not holding my breath Still waiting for your player by player lists, shouldn't take long since you think not many player belong, right? So let's hear...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,690
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,690 |
It could get messy, and maybe we are just holding the cash to extend some of our current guys. We are going to have to spend some. What do we have to spend....85-90% of the cap which was somewhere around 125 mil a year. I don't know where we stand, but we probably have to knock out 10-15 mil more.
At least for now, I am taking the position we have made our contacts but are going to let other teams set the market. Then when player X gets a offer, we get a call. We can tell them they got a great deal and better take it or we can tell them we would like to talk.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,060
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,060 |
Quote:
and maybe we are just holding the cash to extend some of our current guys.
I do hope this is the case. Haslem said something near 50% of the cap money was spent, but teams need to average roughly 90% over four years. I would love to have a couple of guys re-upped before TC starts to get closer to that average in year one.
I would hate for the Browns to be a quandary where (maybe two years down the road) they are even MORE pressured to spend money, due to not enough spending in earlier years of this CBA. They essentially would need to overspend just to meet the average stated in the CBA. And what if, to meet that average, meant they needed to spend more than the cap allows...which you can't do. (I've gone cross-eyed)
It most likely will not happen because Banner does have a history of being financially savvy, but still a possibility.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
the penalty for not achieving the standard though is to just send pro-rated checks to the players who were on the team for those years (to meet it).
so, the worst case scenario, is all the players get a little bonus check in the mail. not much to worry about.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,060
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,060 |
Quote:
the penalty for not achieving the standard though is to just send pro-rated checks to the players who were on the team for those years (to meet it).
so, the worst case scenario, is all the players get a little bonus check in the mail. not much to worry about.
Wow. I did not know that. Thanks for the info.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Quote:
... Banner does have a history of being financially savvy
I believe it is generally recognized that this is (one of) his area(s) of expertise. To date, his spending has been perhaps conservative, but certainly judicious. I expect this to continue, and in the long run, can only be to our benefit. I think his FA period this year has been solid...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Quote:
... Banner does have a history of being financially savvy
I believe it is generally recognized that this is (one of) his area(s) of expertise. To date, his spending has been perhaps conservative, but certainly judicious. I expect this to continue, and in the long run, can only be to our benefit. I think his FA period this year has been solid...
It's hard to always know just how in sync the owner is with the top executive, but if we're going to take Haslam at his word it would appear that his words mirror what Banner has done thus far. That would suggest Banner is operating within the framework of a predetermined plan of action. To that end I'd agree that we've made some good moves, and we're obviously not done yet, meaning it's too early to judge the organization until they've actually finished with the acquisitions.
I'd suggest people need to be patient, at least in terms of passing judgement on how this FO has done at acquiring talent through free agency.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Just some notes:
1. Django we pretty much agree 100% - Heckert was the star worth keeping but understand New Regimes looking to change across the board. First time Ever in our history since 1999 we actually got a foundation made via the draft which includes UDFAs.
2. Toad..."Still trying to pedal a few good draft picks as an entire foundation to state a regime was good" - I don't know your history on this subject matter regarding the Regimes.
But in these recent post especially on this thread I have not seen this being presented as proof positive the other Regime was good...only Mac was proposing the year 3 in 5 thing. And he was sort of correct. as in building talent through the draft...not the direction.
Offensive direction in hind sight was terrible...no innovation nor adjusting to the talents at hand. Defense...I'm of the school don't matter what...as long as you get some talent all on the same page believing n trusting the guy next to you...you will end up with a good D. As long as there is a good Game Plan n adjustment with the talent on hand.
Long term Direction - I am very pleased with the new systems. The young talent because in fact they do have talent...will be given the opportunity to succeed in the new systems. None are saying this system doesn't fit them. Also if they were just bodies as some here have already suggested....WHERE IS THE TURNOVER!!! We would have had 5-10 2nd tier FA signed to upgrade the bottom of the barrel like EVERY NEW REGIME IN THE PAST DID.
3. Vers...just so not to confuse you - I was sticking up for your position not combating it.  We in no way are making this imaginary OVER HAUL that was presented by the poster you were debating. Unfortunately you will have to make a concession on the prowess of Heckert building this foundation  sorry not my intentions but it is what it is...
In hind sight the Direction of System n a lot of the LEADERSHIP pretty much sucked...n yes Heckert was responsible for some of that - I think he was more than on board with the selection of Shurmur. But when I look at his consistency in viable additions of young players via draft/UDFA/or released young guys after roster cuts. The fact that they can PLAY FOOTBALL makes them able to change with the new system!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd suggest people need to be patient, at least in terms of passing judgement on how this FO has done at acquiring talent through free agency.
and I'd argue to the point of saying that I think if we don't beat the Ravens twice this year... we have major problems.
They have lost...
Lewis(retired) and Reed (Texans) are gone. So too are center Matt Birk (retired), wide receiver Anquan Boldin (traded), linebackers Paul Kruger and Danell Ellerbe (both departed via free agency) and safety Bernard Pollard (released) Cary Williams (departed free agency). Next out the door could be cornerback Bryant McKinnie and Kemoeatu
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Quote:
I do hope this is the case. Haslem said something near 50% of the cap money was spent...I would love to have a couple of guys re-upped
He also said that 50% was the plan heading in. I found it very interesting.
I'm with you, I hope that money is going to lock-up Mack, Haden, Ward as early as possible. Unfortunately, I can imagine 15 million other reasons for why Haslam would want to stay $15million under the cap, but I won't name 'em
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229 |
Quote:
3. Vers...just so not to confuse you - I was sticking up for your position not combating it. We in no way are making this imaginary OVER HAUL that was presented by the poster you were debating.
sheesh... I do have a name.
If it wasn't an overhaul people would have to say Heckert did a good job drafting because there was not much turn over on the players he drafted.
people can't have it both ways and say that Heckert sucks and did a terrible job drafting
My issue is only with overhauling/replacing starters and impact players on our team.
We are desperate at CB
We badly need an upgrade at FS/FB
We could use some competition at TE/G/LB
We need another 1-2 WR's we only have 5 and one is on IR and I don't think 2 are really that good. a good offense needs 3-4 good WR's just like a D needs 3-4 good CB/DB's
We don't have a K (no biggy)
We have a P that played in the UFL (might almost be an upgrade)
we need a KR/PR- I feel like Benji could be good
My own personal opinion is that we need a QB but I will leave that one off this conversation.
With that being said... how is that not an overhaul? that is approx 8-10 players that have a major impact on our team.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
Quote:
My own personal opinion is that we need a QB but I will leave that one off this conversation.
^ This is why we won't beat the Ravens twice this season. Flacco > Weeden.
Obviously a team needs a starting CB2 in this league, but we could trot out some pretty lousy players at unimportant positions (Hi Usama!) and be a superbowl contender if we had a top tier QB. This is the main reason I care very little about what holes we fill or don't fill. If we had a top 5 talent QB it wouldn't matter much at all.
Good luck to Weeden. But I have a feeling he is going to be mediocre and cost us a shot at a top QB next season.
I think the best strategy is to trade down this year and do our best not to get Redskinned in next years draft (picking up Manziel or the QB #2-3 we can get our hands on)
Ps. Things are getting more dramatic and snippy around here than I like. Seems like a recent shift to me
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Quote:
Things are getting more dramatic and snippy around here than I like. Seems like a recent shift to me
Coincidental with the influx of "newbies"? Think of it as adding habaneros to your chili...spices things up.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
2. Toad..."Still trying to pedal a few good draft picks as an entire foundation to state a regime was good" - I don't know your history on this subject matter regarding the Regimes.
That's your fault for leaving the board.
That's just Dj and I playing. You've missed that over the last year or so. We both like a good fight from time to time to keep things interesting, so we tweak each others noses here and there.
Dj talks about Heckert and ignores Holmgren. I ignore Heckert and talk about Holmgren. To that end, while I was a believer in Heckert, I maintain that Holmgren's regime was a bitter failure. Dj speaks to the core-players as something to build on, while I speak to the bigger picture of Holmgren failing badly in an overall sense.
I'd have liked to have kept Heckert, but because Holmgren failed that was never going to happen. If the direction of Holmgren had the organization on the right path I doubt Heckert would have been sent packing, but of course it's widely accepted that Holmgren was a bum as an executive. That business about him keeping bankers hours told everyone all they needed to know about his stewardship as an executive. "Pitiful" might not be too strong a word, from his micromanagement of Heckert, the QB's, and the draft to his whining about the RG3 deal, he was a big failure and the product on the field reflected that. I happen to blame Heckert quite a bit less because of what I knew about Holmgren, which is of course why I speak of him when talking about the regime as a whole. It was entirely his show, and his show sucked.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Quote:
With that being said... how is that not an overhaul? that is approx 8-10 players that have a major impact on our team.
And as we've heard, this is only the first week of free agency! Plenty of time for Banner to cut & trade even more.
Before you guys declare the overhaul as non-existent, Be patient, calm down, its too early. Wait until the final roster before you rush to judgment.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
Quote:
Quote:
the penalty for not achieving the standard though is to just send pro-rated checks to the players who were on the team for those years (to meet it).
so, the worst case scenario, is all the players get a little bonus check in the mail. not much to worry about.
Wow. I did not know that. Thanks for the info.
Q. If a team is under the salary cap at the end of a given season, can the team carry over room to the next season?
A. Yes. A team may "carry over" room from one League Year to the following League Year by submitting notice to the NFL prior to 4:00 p.m. ET on the day before the team's final regular-season game indicating the maximum amount of room that the club wishes to carry over.
Q. What is the maximum amount of room that a club can carry over?
A. One hundred percent of its remaining room.
http://www.thephinsider.com/2013/3/8/4080716/nfl-free-agency-2013-frequently-asked-questions
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Quote:
sheesh... I do have a name.
hmmm that would require me having a good memory...I suck at names...always have always will - so whoever you are my apologies...lol j/k I see its SuperBowldogg. Also when I click a reply it shows who I replied to n what they said. I'm afraid what will happen after I start a reply n have to click Backwards to read others n make sure WHO THEY WERE that if I did so I would lose my reply...Also I remember in the past (a while ago) I would go back n answer several post n then move on to the next so that I can respond to most in one post. but every now n then after reading the poster...I would inadvertently click on the reply losing an hour or so of prose...arrrrghhh would get me so grrrrr at myself So I guess right now not only to you I will say a poster "SAID THIS" or "THAT" which I thought was important n absorbed...just to let you also know IT AIN'T WHO YOU ARE but WHAT YOU OPINE that is important to me
Don't take it personal...whats your name? 
Toad: crap forgot what you wrote but I was going to respond to it. See Superbowldogg...what's better me remembering your name or what you wrote
Ok hitting the back button worked: So you both are just trolling...  and we all think the same thing.
Vers knows me a bit more: he knows I'm gullible to all who come to BUILD THE BROWNS...Mangini - I knew him prehand n had first hand knowledge of him as a coach. Holmgren, I was a believer in Ron Wolf n have been quoting him for years. I saw him building the Browns step by step via Ron Wolf's book. Until it came time to hire a HC. Ron Wolf insisted only two thing to prioritize n get Super Stars...
1. HC
2. QB
I know he tried his best at #2. But I was so so deflated when Shurmur was the result. My only hope at that time was that Heckert held a lot of power n I thought he could have pulled it off. Unfortunately needing his 5 years to complete the talent to pretty much make ANY SYSTEM GOOD!
I don't praise Heckert by down playing the current regime. I mean apples to apples there is no comparison Heckert vs Lombardi. But I see it as a Banner/Lombardi duo. I like the plan so far with FA being disciplined n sticking with it. We have to spread out the Spending so that at some point it will dissolve (cap hit) n we can systematically add pieces we need as there is a turnover. Weed out the roster so to say...steadily not in a big way - each season. Upgrading the roster year by year.
I was gaga for Mangini but did not let it hold me back in embracing the NEW Regime of Holmgren/Heckert. And tried to give Shurmur a chance.
Same w/Heckert...thought he was great. But he is gone. I have no problem in praising Heckert in what he had done. All the while embracing the moves n strengthening my belief in the new guys!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Lerner gone = good ....
Haslam in = when he realizes he needs to keep his ass in the owners box and hire good people i think he will have a shot ..
Walrus gone = good ... he did nuttin to impress me as a guy running the org. ..
Banner in = hes the one responsible for Lombardi .. and unless Lombardi is rare spoiled milk carton that when u put it back in the fridge its good the next day ... hes a BAFOON to ... just a different type of Bafoon than the Walrus was ...
heck gone = neither here nor there until we hired his replacement .. MAJOR DOWNGRADE ...
Lombardi = if i had my druthers we'd fire him today and put just about anyone else in the world in his place ..
hopefully he proves me wrong and he is that rare carton of milk .. i'd love to eat crow on this one ... my guess is the day the door hits him in the ass will be a good one ..
Shurmer/Childress/Jauron gone = GREAT .... Shurmer was in so far over his head the bubbles never even made it to the surface .... never liked Childress ... liked Jauron but he had to go ...
Chud/Turner/Horton = MAJOR MAJOR UPGRADE .. by far the best staff we've had since our return and its not even close ... only potential downfall is Chud not being a good HC but everything says he has a good chance to become a good one ..
hopefully these 3 can overcome the obstacles upper mgmt. has put in there place .. the main problem here is that the obstacle is the upper mgmt ... *L* ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Haslam/Randy...I was buying into the Hands on owner thing...then he disappeared in that role n left everything up to Banner without his Checks n Balance. So I don't see the Haslam better than Randy thing yet. Just more visible at games I guess.
Holmgren...I think he got very lazy after the first year. Wanted to make key decisions but not put in the work. Maybe cause he hired Heckert who had things under control.
Banner I'm not going to judge him on his appearance...he looks like a guy NOT TO TRUST...but that is the Book Cover. Inside the book there has been more praises then bashes from those in contact n dealing with him.
Without a doubt he is a Totalitarian Lombardi is his Administrative Asst. errr GM.
But in Lombardi's defense he has gotten praises for his hard work n ability to gather relevant information on personnel among other things. He has always been Meek.
I mean true GM in the sense...Heckert hands down...but he's gone. Banner wanted the power Heckert was too strong to keep. Lombardi might be his perfect Adjutant. Every General Needs.
Shurmur/Childress/Jauron I agree n yes I liked Jauron n thought he did a good job tool
Love our current staff n systems they bring with them...my absolute favorite systems n not just tooting the Homer Horn. I think we have good young talent - I liked the 4 additions we got...we were told we were not going to make this into a FA team we will add a few pieces n next year add a few more. Never overwhelming our Bank n Personnel with a FA mentality. No Dream Team stuff in our future...fine with me.
Lombardi actually might be good for Chud/Turner/Horton cause he just might pull the reigns on banner a bit in regards to the FIELD side. Also why I don't like Haslam taking the back seat. He was adamant that our HC would have the major Power. I bought into this cause he was going to be here as the Balance of Power guy...but he is now gone. So I hope it will be Harmonious but I think if Banner is "BRILLIANT" then he will let the Coaches Coach n Players Play!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
Haslam/Randy...I was buying into the Hands on owner thing...then he disappeared in that role n left everything up to Banner without his Checks n Balance. So I don't see the Haslam better than Randy thing yet. Just more visible at games I guess.
I agree that i have no clue if Haslam will be better than Randy .. none ..
i couldn't agree less on the hands on thing .. not one hands on owner has even come close to winning while being hands on .. NOT ONE ...
so why do u like the hands on owner thing???? ... crap .. now i gotta come back soon to see what u say ... *L*
Quote:
Holmgren...I think he got very lazy after the first year. Wanted to make key decisions but not put in the work. Maybe cause he hired Heckert who had things under control.
never been a big fan of the walrus .. he had a perfect situation in GB and his ego got in his way ... the only thing he did i liked was hire Heck .... and even that was just OK .. other than that .. MAJOR FAILURE ...
hiring shurmur was just a brutal decision and IMO cost him any shot at keeping his job when Haslam boghty the team .. he may not have kept it anyway biut to me that was sumptin he couldn't over come ..
Quote:
Banner I'm not going to judge him on his appearance...he looks like a guy NOT TO TRUST...but that is the Book Cover. Inside the book there has been more praises then bashes from those in contact n dealing with him.
U could put him in a line up with one other guy and i'd have a 50/50 chance of picking him out .. *L* ..
I will judge him by what he does here as i don't have enough info to judge him on Phili .. so far he gets a D- for hring Vinces off spring ... would be an F but maybe .. just maybe Lombardi won't be as putrid as i think hes gonna be ..
Quote:
Without a doubt he is a Totalitarian Lombardi is his Administrative Asst. errr GM.
But in Lombardi's defense he has gotten praises for his hard work n ability to gather relevant information on personnel among other things. He has always been Meek.
and if Banners good .. this will be a perfect marriage .. problem is we have no clue on banner ..
heard that from others about Lombardi .. my problem with that is .. why was he out of the league for what .. 4, 5 maybe even 6 hyears if he was so good .. that makes absolutely no sense to me ..
Quote:
Love our current staff n systems they bring with them...my absolute favorite systems n not just tooting the Homer Horn. I think we have good young talent
U and I have always disagreed about where we stand as far as talent and stuff went .. but we finally agree on the fact we have a VERY GOOD STAFF ... if Chuds good we could have one of the best in football .. but its nice to agree with u on that ..
and i believe that Heck (although he had many flaws and made some bad decisions) left us with way more talent than any new regime has been left sine 99 .. theres a handful of players to hang your hat on and some good young talent on the team ...
he left us with enough to give us a chance to be decent quickly ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
not one hands on owner has even come close to winning while being hands on .. NOT ONE ...
the Rooney family?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144 |
Quote:
not one hands on owner has even come close to winning while being hands on .. NOT ONE ...
Al Davis and Jerry Jones have Super Bowl rings....and I don't think you can get any more hands on than that. Of course their mighty egos eventually brought them down, but they had their hands in the dough when their teams were winning.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,690
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,690 |
I was thinking Al Davis. I don't think the Rooneys are all that hands on. But for the most part Diam is correct. The only one in the last decade or two was Jones in Dallas, and he wasn't as hands on when they were winning. Once Johnson was out of the way and Jones took over in full, they haven't done squat.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
You're all forgetting Georgia Frontiere.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,509
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,509 |
A new front office and coaching staff, to me, means a bit of a moneymoon period until I see what they are going to do here and now. Face it, Belichick wasn't great when he was in Cleveland back in the early to mid 90s. He was set in his ways, inflexible, and unwilling to change. Then he learned how to adjust, accept suggestions from his other coaches, even play different defensive alignments entirely. He went from a coach who wanted to run the ball on every down to an a coach who features an attacking passing game. He went from wanting to control every play to allowing Brady to call plays at the line and change plays at will. He learned in that period in between his time in Cleveland, and his hiring in New England. My hope is that this is what has happened with Lombardi as well. I don't know whether it has or not, and neither does anyone else out in the world of fandom. I have heard several national people whose football opinions I respect fervently defend Lombardi, and say that he is as well informed and knowledgeable a guy as there is in the game. Hopefully that's the case. I can't change it, whether it is, or is not .... so I choose to hope that he will be what many have said he is. I like the signings we have made thus far. I like the Kruger signing. I think that he will be a massive upgrade for us at OLB. I love the Bryant signing more and more with each passing day. I think that he will wind up being a steal for us. Groves should be, at the very least, an excellent backup/situations player. The TE I know little about, but he looks like a blocker type. Overall though, I am quite pleased with our free agency activity this year. As far as Kruger, it seems as though he really didn;t do a lot in his 1st 3 years. He was learning and developing. Then last year he had more tackles than he had in his entire career to that point, and more sacks than he had to that point in his career. He then went and had a great post-season to boot. He also played through a back injury early on last year. People say that he didn't do much until Suggs came back, but it's also quite possible that he recovered from injury and then took off. Face it, Suggs didn't do a whole lot last year. Anyway, I choose to look on the side of hope. We have had hope in the past that didn't work out. We had a crummy Notre Dame QB who turned out to be a bust +.  I think that most of us thought that he would be much, much better than he turned out to be. Hopefully we get the reverse this year. We really won't know until we see the guys actually play, but I am encouraged by what I know and see thus far.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
'Sup, Punk. Resisted sending you an email because I wanted to see how long it'd take you to get here, hehe.
Quote:
I agree that i have no clue if Haslam will be better than Randy .. none ..
Seriously?
Okay...honest question: How could he do any worse?
If you give me two guys who squander their millions and can't make a good decision no matter what, but one cares and the other doesn't, well, I think you know where I'm going.
Quote:
and if Banners good .. this will be a perfect marriage .. problem is we have no clue on banner ..
Not exactly true.
If a guy is upsetting the dopes in Philly, then he's good.
We do know that Banner has been a great guy in terms of cap management and the finances, and we at least can speculate that he's done some things right in terms of managing the players because the Eagles couldn't have stayed on top as long as they did if a guy as prominent as Banner wasn't doing things right.
Now I assume you mean with the talent evaluation stuff, to which I'd say I somewhat agree. I believed that Banner had more input on that side of the equation with the Eagles than he'd been given credit for, and in recent weeks that proved to be true. Beyond that? I can at least say I like the idea of having NFL football guys like Chud and Norv sitting in the room. Don't get me started on Lombardi, though. If there's ever been a "prove it" guy to me it's him...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,690
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,690 |
Quote:
You're all forgetting Georgia Frontiere.
Pretty easy to do.
Did you have a crush on her?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
Ok, enough of this revisionists history crap. Get off the fence and please list, player by player, the "foundation players" pre-Heckert and post-Heckert.
Okay, enough! I've let this nonsense go long enough. On the other board, several posters made a similar argument, but it was always BS!
They point to how old Mangini's team was before H and H got there. No kidding? Do any of you geniuses think that perhaps that ridding the team of cancerous players [Leon, K2] and replacing them w/character guys was PHASE FREAKING ONE OF THE PLAN?
Do any of you astute football evaluators really think that his plan was to keep the team old? To never draft young players and just trade for old players year after year?
You guys spew nonsense and you expect me to act like you are credible. You may fool the masses, but you ain't fooling me.....and you know what.......you can't fool the man in the mirror, either.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
Vers knows me a bit more: he knows I'm gullible to all who come to BUILD THE BROWNS...Mangini - I knew him prehand n had first hand knowledge of him as a coach. Holmgren, I was a believer in Ron Wolf n have been quoting him for years. I saw him building the Browns step by step via Ron Wolf's book. Until it came time to hire a HC. Ron Wolf insisted only two thing to prioritize n get Super Stars...
1. HC
2. QB
I vouch for tab. This is all true.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
Face it, Belichick wasn't great when he was in Cleveland back in the early to mid 90s. He was set in his ways, inflexible, and unwilling to change.
No offense and I know this off-topic, but I disagree w/that statement completely. It is the common view, but I think it is dead wrong. Bill B had one heckuva support group. He was surrounded by quality people.
He had two big problems:
1. He sucked w/the media. He hated them. He didn't want to give them information. He was appalled by their ignorance. He did not handle it well. You get guys like Grossi who got offended. They looked for negative things. They were full of crap. We had a great staff and I saw that we were building a winner. I argued w/everyone I knew [pre internet] that he was a GREAT COACH!!!
2. He benched Bernie. It was the right move. Bernie lost his nerve and his minimal skills could not overcome it. He never won a starting job again. Meanwhile, Vinny did. The press loved Bernie. The fans loved Bernie. This was crucial in Belichick's demise. Heck, I loved Bernie, but it was obvious to me that he skills were indeed diminished. The press and fans could not handle that. Of course, they never mentioned that no one ever wanted Bernie as a starter again and that he was out of the league in a couple of years.
I always believed in Belichick. Always! Too bad the idiots didn't. I am not kidding you......I really think Cleveland has a loser mentality. It's gotta end. Support the new guys at least until they fail. Give them at least 2 years. Can we do that, please?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Quote:
Quote:
You're all forgetting Georgia Frontiere.
Pretty easy to do.
Did you have a crush on her?
Man what I would have given to be Bert Jones.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Schein Says Browns Bomb So Far In
FA
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
