|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
First post on the new forum to express my concerns regarding FA and the next season:
Two of the our glare weaknesses haven't been addressed and don't look they are going to be addressed.
Rush D, he haven't done anything to improve that. Attacking D's can only work if you stop the run, if not what's the point of investing on pass rushers if opponents only have to run up the gut to win the game? More Horton's D aren't stout against the run, and our DEs and DT/NT, MLB's Safeties have problems against the run.
On offense, we haven't done anything significant, no slot receiver, no TE's and no QB....
We can't address all this in the draft, so what are Banner and Chud's plans, another losing season?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352 |
I think that Bryant helps address the run defense. Whether or not Kruger helps the run defense remains to be seen.
Regardless, you have to walk before you run, and if I have a choice between terrorizing opposing QBs, or stopping the run, then I want to terrorize the opposing QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
I would rather first stop the run and then address the problem in the passing game.
Its not like opponents were wining the games passing on us, Run D was/is the major problem on D, and IMHO, Rubin, Taylor, Sheard suck against the run, so does DQ and Ward.... Kruger has problems also and Bryant is no Run D extraordinaire....
Last edited by rastanplan; 03/15/13 11:00 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I would rather first stop the run and then address the problem in the passing game.
Its not like opponents were wining the games passing on us, Run D was/is the major problem on D, and IMHO, Rubin, Taylor, Sheard suck against the run, so does DQ and Ward....
Welcome to the board. 
If you take the viewpoint that all those guys suck against the run, then this regime has no chance whatsoever of fixing the problems of this team in 2-days of free agency, in which case your concerns shouldn't be with what they are doing in a very short amount of time, but should rather be focused on the 4-year plan.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352 |
I should add that I believe that our DL will be very effective against the run. All 3 guys can play the run well, as can our primary backups.
If the LB corps can fill gaps effectively, then the run defense can be effective. If the defense can be effective against the pass on 1st down, then even a 5 yard run on 2nd down still allows us to pressure the QB on 3rd down. Being able to knock the QB off stride is so vitally important in today's NFL ..... even more effective than stopping the run.
Stopping the run is important .... don't mistake my preference for being able to effective stop the passing game as a complete disregard for being able to stop the run ..... however, if a defense can stop the pass well enough to allow their offense to get ahead, then the run becomes less useful for the team that is behind. They have to start making up scores, and they do so through the air. Stop the pass and you win. Knock the opposing QB off his stride ..... beat him up with the rush ...... make him look for the rush before he even considers the defensive alignment, then you change the game in your favor.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Free agency started on March 12th. Today is March 15th. We will sign more players. We will draft players. The sky is not falling.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Free agency started on March 12th. Today is March 15th. We will sign more players. We will draft players. The sky is not falling.
you're no fun
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
I've been hearing that for the past 4 years, and we all know how FA was.
Its not like there is rumors or news liking the Browns to other FAs, so the chance for any major player are IMHO minimal, since agents would be using the Browns card in the media, like they did with Kruger.
Our DL isn't good against the run, Rubin the the only one who is average at best, and we now lost Frostee, which was our upgrade last year.
I'm having problems understanding the strategy so far, I thought we were going to get our pass rusher in the draft, and fill the holes in FA (Safety, TE and CB, at least)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
I'm having problems understanding the strategy so far, I thought we were going to get our pass rusher in the draft, and fill the holes in FA (Safety, TE and CB, at least)
Free agency started on March 12th. Today is March 15th. We will sign more players. We will draft players. The sky is not falling.
Quote:
Its not like there is rumors or news liking the Browns to other FAs
Fred Davis?
We signed two big contracts, it is now best to wait back and let other teams (cough*Dolphins*cough*Colts*cough*Titans) overpay for mediocre players. In two weeks there will still be mediocre players available, only they will be much cheaper.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
I'm having problems understanding the strategy so far, I thought we were going to get our pass rusher in the draft, and fill the holes in FA (Safety, TE and CB, at least)
I agree that was our main speculation, but maybe the Browns FO saw flawed pass rushers in the draft and thought it better to get that in FA (Kruger/Bryant) and fix the secondary in the draft (trade down for 1st & 2nd and get a CB and S)?
Also, Rhodes is still available for FS. Cason for CB. Et cetera.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
I won't say much...but it didn't surprise me YOUR FIRST post would be a THREAD about us making bad moves n are doomed...lol 
I was pretty shocked that you did not say cause we didn't get a WR in FA...truthfully no funny business was surprised. btw we did sign a TE
We did exactly what Banner said. No Bandaids, All young FA that can be expected to fulfill the term of their contracts. I think Kruger is going to surprise most in his Run D prowess...just cause all were gaga over his pass rush...he will do well on downs 1 & 2.
What part of Bryant spells suck against the Run??? Stout DE like he n Taylor along w/Rubin or Hughes at NT...how does that not spell RUN D to you. And just cause we say Attack/blitzing D that doesn't mean we are ignoring the run... we will do a lot of DOG Blitzes too.
JMHO - Its a new Day a new Dawn....sing me that song! lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Its not like there is rumors or news liking the Browns to other FAs
Fred Davis?
We signed two big contracts, it is now best to wait back and let other teams (cough*Dolphins*cough*Colts*cough*Titans) overpay for mediocre players. In two weeks there will still be mediocre players available, only they will be much cheaper.
Its not like other teams are going overboard, actually FA this years is sounding cheap, and there are a number of players signed that I wouldn't mind seeing in orange.
Fred Davis, Campbell and Krugger, and that is it. None of this players is really exciting...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
I'm having problems understanding the strategy so far, I thought we were going to get our pass rusher in the draft, and fill the holes in FA (Safety, TE and CB, at least)
If that is what you were hoping would happen, how does that address the run? A pass rusher, a safety and a CB on defense and a TE... sounds like they did more to fix the run D than you thought they were going to do.
And if Ward sucks against the run then we might as well cut him because that is his strength
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
If we could score points teams wouldn't run. You build an electric D with aggressive rushers in todays NFL if you want a championship. If you want to go 8-8 and get knocked out every year build a run D oriented style. It's the only way to win without a QB but you won't win the Ship. Build a lights out pass rushing D and fill every hole possible on O until you get a QB. While you might not win without the QB youll have high picks until the Qb gets settled resulting in a stacked team across the board for a decade of championship runs. Half of the QB is luck as it is. It's all you can do and for once were actually doing it and people complain.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
What part of Bryant spells suck against the Run??? Stout DE like he n Taylor along w/Rubin or Hughes at NT...how does that not spell RUN D to you. And just cause we say Attack/blitzing D that doesn't mean we are ignoring the run... we will do a lot of DOG Blitzes too.
JMHO - Its a new Day a new Dawn....sing me that song! lol
I don't know if Bryant sucks or excels against the run, you tell me. What I've been reading is about his ability to get to the QB, not that he is an upgrade on the run D.
I have my own mind, and think for myself. So I don't come here one time saying we must draft a pass rusher because most pass rushers are drafted, and then when we sign a pass rusher post that I understand the signing....
Run defense has been since I remember (at least since Romeo and Savage) one of my main concerns regarding our D. If you remember I had many posts complaining about both our NT (Rubin and Taylor), and the middle of our D (MLB/SS) because that was an area of weakness (IMHO), so if this is an area we don't address, for sure I will be posting about it.
If with the same group of players we were one of the worst run D's in the league, why would we expect something different if we don't upgrade? Its not like Arizona run D is a powerhouse, is it?
The same can be said about our receivers, TE's included. We need a slot/possession receiver and a good catching TE. I trust, and like Chud, and think he will do it, but if he does like Mangini/Holmgren and looks at our receivers and doesn't see the need for upgrade, and then once season starts we watch our O struggle, then I will criticize him and his hires, just like I did in previous regimes. To me its clear we need a good TE and possession receiver to help the QB, and we don't have neither.
Last edited by rastanplan; 03/15/13 02:33 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
rasta...the Bozo's main concern is Pass rush...$$$ big $$$$ is usually for the ability to rush the passer. All you hear...doesn't mean that is all the game they got.
Its to justify $$ spent in FA. Run stopping does not take rare skill sets. It requires strength n determination (motor) along with discipline regarding the DL. Because it is not rare is why you don't HEAR about it regarding the accomplishments in spending 34mil on a FA. I haven't worked him out to assure you 100%. But his size - intelligence - over achievement - High Motor...spells Run D to me...I was surprised at his prowess as a pass rusher.
It just possibly can be - Banner/Lombardi/Chud/Horton know what they are doing??? Just possible. Proof is always in the pudding but nowhere does this spell the opposite...not at all. I do not see a lack of Run Stopping on this DL - it will be up to the LBs to define us. But if anything this DL spells RUN STOPPING.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
If with the same group of players we were one of the worst run D's in the league, why would we expect something different if we don't upgrade?
2012....
yards per game, 118.6.. NFL rank of 19th.. interestingly enough, we were 1.1 ypg away from being 15th.. it's not like its a big spread..
Runs over 20 yards.. NFL rank, 10th...
ypc, 4.2.. NFL rank, tied for 13th....
Fumbles.. 9... NFL rank, tied for 6th..
I will agree that our run defense wasn't dominant.. but it wasn't nearly as bad as you seem to want people to believe it was..
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
eo, I was just venting. I'm always p**** this time of the year, because I see players that I would really like to see in Orange being signed by others (and I'm not talking about the flashy names, except for Mario Williams and Boldin  ) Now on Bryant, I confess I knew little about him, but he's starting to sound interesting (opposite to Kruger), I actually thing he's not a Run disaster, and shows very good stop run stats :-). I'll be happy when they sign the punter and bring back Dawson and draft the pass rusher. Reed /Huff, would also be nice signings, and a CB. I don't like Fred Davis that much, but think Chud knows his TE's. Urlacher would still be a good addition to our D 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
Quote:
our DEs and DT/NT, MLB's Safeties have problems against the run.
Did you remove some names? Rubin & Big Phil & TJ are good against the run, plus our FA will help. If we have a good to great pass rush, then we won't need a big time CB. An avg. CB will do. Won't have to cover forever. No need to over pay here.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
CB (Talib), maybe FS if there is a good value, Then K n P hoping for Dawson n Lechler I don't care if they are old. And that would be it for FA...maybe something to improve the bottom tier after the draft n UDFA signings.
got to be smart...can't look at this as a Fantasy Grab bag I like Banner's Accounting sense.
Its ok to vent...no big deal as long as you don't vent on a poster ALL GOOD 
Not too frustrated this go round. I'll tell you why:
1. I truly think Heckert left us in a good place...decent young foundation to build on n a boat load of Cap Space
2. I love the vertical stretch Offense. I love black n blue football but until you get 2 safeties back its hard to become dominant! Trent is a lot better than what we saw.
3. I love the Attack 3-4 Defense...oh we might get burnt here n there but when we have continuity it becomes awesome n not too shabby as we get there.
4. Originally feared Banner...but for the most part he's looking pretty good leading this Plan so far
5. New Owner stated that Continuity was a must just in his vision not previous...so we made the Changes...they are now being applied n I'm going on the premise that it will be here for a long long time!
JMHOptimism
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,161 Likes: 208
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,161 Likes: 208 |
Quote:
Quote:
If with the same group of players we were one of the worst run D's in the league, why would we expect something different if we don't upgrade?
2012....
yards per game, 118.6.. NFL rank of 19th.. interestingly enough, we were 1.1 ypg away from being 15th.. it's not like its a big spread..
Runs over 20 yards.. NFL rank, 10th...
ypc, 4.2.. NFL rank, tied for 13th....
Fumbles.. 9... NFL rank, tied for 6th..
I will agree that our run defense wasn't dominant.. but it wasn't nearly as bad as you seem to want people to believe it was..
Always some bozo messing things up with statistics 
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
Actually,I was thinking of the 2011 D, with basically the same players, where we were the 3rd worst run D.
Last year we have improved, no doubts, our DL played much better (IMHO), still I think we were very far from being a good run D.
Last edited by rastanplan; 03/15/13 07:20 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
our DEs and DT/NT, MLB's Safeties have problems against the run.
Did you remove some names? Rubin & Big Phil & TJ are good against the run, plus our FA will help. If we have a good to great pass rush, then we won't need a big time CB. An avg. CB will do. Won't have to cover forever. No need to over pay here.
I didn't remove any names, and from the 3 Rubin is the one IMHO that progressed, but is far from being solid against the Run, Phil is average at best and Ward is IMHO a liability.
This guys (except Phil) have been playing here for long, we are not going to get any surprises.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,965 Likes: 352 |
Ward is a liability against the run? I don't see that at all.
He's strong against the run, and is a very physical SS. His weakness is coverage down the field. Now part of that is him, and part is the cluster we sent out at FS for the past couple of years. Probably our best FS candidate at this time is Gipson, and he had injury issues last year, and was inconsistent.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3 |
Remember Rastan we had a very young D last year which should improve mightily with the scheme and with the additions of Kruger and Bryant. plus our run D improved dramatically when Phil Taylor came back.
Also, I really interested to see how TJ Ward will be utilized in Horton's scheme. I have a feeling he's going to have a huge impact.
We do need a corner but there is still time with free agency, trades, and the draft.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 35
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,313 Likes: 35 |
You can't ignore the trends in this league. In today's NFL it's about dominant passing offenses. When Baltimore, of all teams, has been transformed to feature Flaco and Torrey Smith et. al. that should tell you something. To extend that argument, Cinci is first and foremost abaout Dalton to Greene, and Pittsburg is arguably about Roethlisbeger to Antonio Brown more so than featuring their running backs. And backs had better be able to add something in the passig game as well. So, even within our division passing offenses have to be defended. Games are no longer won 17-13 in todays NFL its more likely to be 24-28 or higher. In my opinion Chud and Norv were brought to Cleveland to create explosive plays. Explosive plays create points.
Horton was brought here to defend offenses that feature the pass.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
Good post....love the moves so far, but am concerned about running a Blitzburgh type of D without quality CBs and a FS.Furthermore, I really hope we do not try to put two rookies back there either.....disaster written all over it.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52 |
I agree I hope we get one FA vet to guide the guys in the back field. Rhodes?
Here we go again
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum FA: Rushing D and Offense
|
|
