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J/C
At least Miami might be fun to watch, I just signed a contract to teach at the University of Miami starting next year.
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j/c
I won't lose one minute of sleep about "losing out" on a 30 year old CB coming back from an Achilles surgery and who signed a $5 million deal.
Have I ever once posted on this board that I preferred Grimes to other free agent CBs? No.
Did you maybe miss the "j/c" that started my reply? = just clicking
BTW...the rest of your post made sense...but it is what it is. I'm starting to get comfortable with taking the best CB available at #6...Milliner or Rhodes will do for me.
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Missing on Grimes wasn't the problem, never was with me anyways....
Putting your CB-eggs all into him, doing the fly over thing and stuff...that's the problem imho. They completely dropped the ball on the CB FA class
We should have signed one of the many SOLID, experienced and relatively cheap CBs like Lewis, Houston, C.Williams etc
Back to a stop gap or draft pick on a position of need that was deep in FA and we had the most cap room....makes me shake my head really.
At this point, no matter who we sign, we have to draft a CB high to be ready for no later than 2014 and possibly as a rook if the stop gap vet breaks down
Let's hope they at least try to upgrade some other positions now...
There were a couple solid Corners available but all had some questions about them.
Is Lewis a 1 year wonder looking for that big $. As it played out, I'm shocked at how little $ the top Corners got. 6M a year is cheap. Sounds like we're for sure extending Haden.
I'm looking for these guys to start hitting on the 2nd and 3rd tier guys.
Hall/Jammer types. Short term 1 or 2 year deals.
Grimes woulda been nice but you just can't overlook that Achilles injury. Those are devestating injuries and much worse than Knees.
Regardless of signing Grimes or not I still say we will move down and take the best available between a Rhodes or Warmack/Cooper in the 10-12 range.
How far will Banks slip come draft day? Another possibility.
It's not all dire yet.
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Legend
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I really wanted us to sign Grimes, but that is a lot to pay for him. I can understand why we didn't go higher.
There is a lot of talk about all these great corners who went in FA. I didn't like any of them. Overrated guys who were not the answer. I was hoping we would either get Grimes or Golston in FA and then draft the other spot, but alas, we got neither.
I'll say this again, but I really think we should just keep Sheldon Brown. He is NOWHERE near as bad as people make him out to be. In fact, I really don't think Haden played much better than he did in the last two years, yet people act like he is God.
I doubt we bring back Brown, though......so, I think it is becoming more and more apparent that the Browns don't think they can win many games this upcoming year and are taking this slow. I can deal w/that, but man, it's going to get ugly around here.
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He is NOWHERE near as bad as people make him out to be. In fact, I really don't think Haden played much better than he did in the last two years, yet people act like he is God.
Yeah bro, really? Sheldon isn't the worse CB, but he get flags thrown his way a lot due to he hasn't the speed to match up hip to hip with defenders anymore so he'll hold. He often gets torched. He often always has over the top safety help for double coverages. Haden rarely gets torched and has the speed to match up hip to hip. There is a reason Sheldon gets picked on more than Joe.
Your comment is by far the strangest i've seen you make. Haden is a few steps above Sheldon in my book with only upside to get better. With that said, I definitely wouldn't be opposed to resigning him if we can't find that stud corner via the draft. Sheldon played very good towards the middle to end of last season and I'm sure the knowledge he passes down onto the younger guys is priceless.
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Sheldon Brown is not a single cover CB anymore. He lacks that top end quickness and speed. He might fit into a zone scheme, but we're not playing a zone on the outside here.
I do think that he played better than many people gave him credit for, especially around the middle of the year ...... but he was really bad at the end of the year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Question for the board - could Sheldon Brown play FS? He seems to have good instincts and ball skills, he's a game-tested and savvy vet, he can tackle, and he wouldn't get so exposed playing as a "center fielder" as opposed to being on an island at CB.
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Legend
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Question for the board - could Sheldon Brown play FS? He seems to have good instincts and ball skills, he's a game-tested and savvy vet, he can tackle, and he wouldn't get so exposed playing as a "center fielder" as opposed to being on an island at CB.
IMO, Sheldon would make for an awesome free safety...
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I'd have no problems bringing Sheldon Brown for another year at this point. He is definitely slowing down, but he's shown great "closing ability" to make up for his lack of speed. And he's avoided injuries pretty much his whole career. As mentioned, could help FS in a pinch (still a "need").
Would still prefer someone better, but a 1 year deal would give us more draft flexibility and help sort things out with our group of young cornerbacks (including any we draft). Buster Skrine has matchup issues, he can't handle a BIG wide receiver and he had 9 penalties last year. We need some insurance at the #2 CB spot, and unless we want to box ourselves into Milliner at #6, I don't trust a 3rd round rookie can come in and start, especially when we have no idea who will be on the board. It would be one thing if we already picked a steal or gem in the 3rd round, but we have no idea. Could be a big run on cornerbacks in the 2nd. Would hate to see us scrambling/trading up on draft day.
Is Banner going to bring him back? I highly doubt it.
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All Pro
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Does it mater if it is 1 year? If a team is willing to pay an injured player to be a #2 five million, what do you think a healthy #1 will want for his services?
I guess I don't see where the Browns must invest so much in DB's. I also don't see it when your overall goal is pressuring the QB. There are not many teams who spend a lot getting two top corners.
Haden and his agent will want top-dollar either way.
Our best angle for retaining Haden (and anyone else) is to surround them with talent and start winning games. Prove that we are committed to winning, now. If we have unproven guys struggling in the secondary, Haden will be looking at winning teams with a foundation in the secondary. He doesn't want to be associated with a struggling group, or being left out there with no help. Plus, if we keep this hole unplugged, its makes us more desperate to keep him.
I don't think we have to make a huge investment. But we still need help at CB and FS.
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Is Banner going to bring him back? I highly doubt it.
I doubt it. If it were going to happen, I think it'd have happened by now.
PS, I agree 100% with the rest of your post.
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Everybody wants to take an old washed up corner and make him a FS.It isn't something that is done very often,and it takes an exceptional athlete to make it work.
So the short answer is no.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Buster Skrine has matchup issues, he can't handle a BIG wide receiver and he had 9 penalties last year. We need some insurance at the #2 CB spot, and unless we want to box ourselves into Milliner at #6, I don't trust a 3rd round rookie can come in and start, especially when we have no idea who will be on the board. It would be one thing if we already picked a steal or gem in the 3rd round, but we have no idea. Could be a big run on cornerbacks in the 2nd. Would hate to see us scrambling/trading up on draft day.
Here is where you and I disagree. Skrine struggled because of lack of pressure on the QB. If a QB has time to set, he can make an accurate throw. Any CB with height disadvantage will struggle. Being able to apply pressure, allows CB to play zone or make less accurate pass. This is where I think Skrine will shine. Another advantage Skrine has is playing the go-route receiver.
Don't get me wrong it is nice to have top DB's, but you can't have top quality everywhere. I believe it is more cost effective having pass rushing LB's more easier to obtain than shut down corners.
You can't look at last years stats and say Browns need this to be successful. Horton and Jauron are totally different styles. Horton does his work with the front seven. Jauron uses the secondary. Which is why I was a little surprised Heckert did not make more of an effort fortifying the secondary. Truthfully I feel Heckert drafted players who more fit Horton's schemes than Jauron.
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2nd String
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There were a couple solid Corners available but all had some questions about them.
There were more than a couple. And nearly all NFL free agents have some questions about them. But at least the questions associated with the top CB free agents this year weren't ability-based ones.
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Is Lewis a 1 year wonder looking for that big $.
Lewis has been good for more than one year. And Lewis didn't get paid big money anyways.
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Sounds like we're for sure extending Haden.
I would certainly hope so.
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I'm looking for these guys to start hitting on the 2nd and 3rd tier guys.
Hall/Jammer types. Short term 1 or 2 year deals.
Hall struggles in man coverage (which Horton prefers) and has a bad attitude. Jammer has been amongst the worst starting CBs in the league for the past two seasons and will probably be even worse this season being he's going on age thirty-four. Last year he was the 8th most-targeted CB in the league and QBs had a 94.4 QB rating against him. And 2011 was even worse for him. Take it from the Chargers fan.
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Grimes woulda been nice but you just can't overlook that Achilles injury. Those are devestating injuries and much worse than Knees.
Yeah agreed, I just wish the Browns would have signed someone else. Oh well.
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Regardless of signing Grimes or not I still say we will move down and take the best available between a Rhodes or Warmack/Cooper in the 10-12 range.
How far will Banks slip come draft day? Another possibility.
It's not all dire yet.
One thing that may have happened here is that the Browns FO thinks they're still a year away from contending. So they may have fallen in love with this year's CB class and don't care if all of them (except for Milliner) will struggle in their first year (since 95% of rookie CBs do), since they're not expecting to contend this year anyways. In other words, they're fine with drafting Rhodes and don't care if he's going to struggle in his first year because they like his potential for the future and don't think they'll make the POs/contend this year anyways. That's really the only justification I have for a team with the most cap space in the league not filling one of their greatest needs when guys who play the position were going for way below past year's market-value.
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Question for the board - could Sheldon Brown play FS? He seems to have good instincts and ball skills, he's a game-tested and savvy vet, he can tackle, and he wouldn't get so exposed playing as a "center fielder" as opposed to being on an island at CB.
He could play FS .... the question is ... could he play it well?
Honestly, I don't know for sure, but I don't think that I want to sign him just to experiment. I would rather develop Gipson and Bademosi at the position. The last staff liked Bademosi at CB because he has solid CB speed ...... but that's exactly why I love him as a FS candidate. We know that he is willing to hit, and is able to wrap up based on his special teams play, and his play in the secondary last year. A solid tackler with speed, who is not afraid to hit anyone is exactly what I want at FS ..... plus Bademosi has nice size for the position. He's 6' and 200#.
Unfortunately, he's also one of our tallest corners. (if not the tallest) I think that newly signed Kevin Barnes might be the only CB we have who is taller than Bademosi. Man we need some size there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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One thing that may have happened here is that the Browns FO thinks they're still a year away from contending. So they may have fallen in love with this year's CB class and don't care if all of them (except for Milliner) will struggle in their first year (since 95% of rookie CBs do), since they're not expecting to contend this year anyways. In other words, they're fine with drafting Rhodes and don't care if he's going to struggle in his first year because they like his potential for the future and don't think they'll make the POs/contend this year anyways. That's really the only justification I have for a team with the most cap space in the league not filling one of their greatest needs when guys who play the position were going for way below past year's market-value.
I agreed with everything except your last sentence. Cap space can be carried forward for when "the" player is needed. It makes no sense to invest in a top player now when, as you stated, chances are slim making the playoffs. It is more feasible getting players through the draft. With so many CB's still available, why not wait until after the draft to get one? Why do you think the greatest need is DB's?
I've stated many times already, but you can improve pass defense two different ways: a) beef up the pass rush; b) beef up the secondary. Browns wanted to improve the pass rush, which in my opinion was a lot more critical. Since Browns already have Haden, it makes more sense attempting to get a DB through the draft. Note too they have added depth, so I feel need has been addressed.
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Regarding Sheldon Brown, I think the question should be "can he play FS better than Usama Young?". I had forgotten about Bademosi. Its a good idea to see if he could move to FS because he seems to have the speed, size, and skills, from what I saw of him last year. Hate to lose him off ST, though. With Cribbs gone, he might be our gunner.
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I agreed with everything except your last sentence. Cap space can be carried forward for when "the" player is needed. It makes no sense to invest in a top player now when, as you stated, chances are slim making the playoffs. It is more feasible getting players through the draft. With so many CB's still available, why not wait until after the draft to get one? Why do you think the greatest need is DB's?
Based on this team's talent level, I really don't think the POs are all that unfeasible. The Browns are a pretty trendy pick to win the WC (since the AFC is so weak) or even win the division. That's why I thought it made sense to secure a good, young player, especially since this team had so much cap space. But as we've both touched upon, maybe Cleveland's own FO feels differently.
Why do I think DBs were most important than improving the pass rush via FA? a) there were a ton of good ones this year which made them go for below market-value, making them the smarter unit to upgrade IMO b) there's plenty of pass rushers who are feasible picks at #6, and only one feasible pick for CB at #6 (Yes, I think the Browns have to trade down to make drafting Rhodes a non-reach. My reluctance to draft Rhodes also tied in to the idea that I thought this team had a shot at contending this year, and there's a good possibility of Rhodes' rookie play hurting their PO chances as opposed to helping them).
EDIT: Also in regard to the bolded, the Browns signed two top FAs in Kruger and Bryant. They already signed "the" player, twice in fact. So I think there was no reason for them to sign a CB in addition to, or instead of one of those guys (Bryant preferably).
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I've stated many times already, but you can improve pass defense two different ways: a) beef up the pass rush; b) beef up the secondary. Browns wanted to improve the pass rush, which in my opinion was a lot more critical. Since Browns already have Haden, it makes more sense attempting to get a DB through the draft. Note too they have added depth, so I feel need has been addressed.
Like I said, if this team felt as though it was close to being a contender, they could have both beefed up the pass rush and beefed up the secondary in one offseason since they had so much cap space. And the benefit of upgrading the secondary as opposed to pass rush (if I have to choose one) is that all of the top guys were going for below last year's market-value. They could have just drafted one of the many pass rushers who are slated to go in the top ten.
Hell, they could have signed Kruger and a good CB and just started Hughes/Winn, and spent very little over what they've currently spent now. I thought Hughes was good enough to start, but apparently not.
Last edited by PowderBlue11; 03/31/13 02:38 PM.
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Bademosi was one of our gunners last year. He took Cribbs' job on coverage teams. Cribbs was still on coverage teams, but Bademosi and Ray Ventrone (and Tank Carder when Ventrone got hurt, IIRC) played most of the year as the gunners.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I must be crazy but I don't think any of the CBs available in FA this year are all that good. I have not watched them all play but I don't see where they would be much of an upgrade. Rodgers Cromartie finished with 51 tackles, 3 Ints and 16 PD. Those numbers are not far off of Sheldon Browns numbers (60/3/12) for last year.Same with Sean Smith 59/2/11. Talib has potential but doesn't seem to be able to stay out of trouble and on the field. The only one that seems to jump out at me is Keenan Lewis, but who knows maybe he just didn't want to play in Cleveland, who knows. Also CBS has Chris Owens ranked higher than KEenan Lewis on their top 100 free agents. I have no idea why.
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I must be crazy but I don't think any of the CBs available in FA this year are all that good. I have not watched them all play but I don't see where they would be much of an upgrade. Rodgers Cromartie finished with 51 tackles, 3 Ints and 16 PD. Those numbers are not far off of Sheldon Browns numbers (60/3/12) for last year.Same with Sean Smith 59/2/11. Talib has potential but doesn't seem to be able to stay out of trouble and on the field. The only one that seems to jump out at me is Keenan Lewis, but who knows maybe he just didn't want to play in Cleveland, who knows. Also CBS has Chris Owens ranked higher than KEenan Lewis on their top 100 free agents. I have no idea why.
Well there were other guys besides the ones you listed (Cox, Houston, Pacman, Toler, Grimes obviously).
I don't think it makes much sense to rank CBs off of interception numbers, either. The better at coverage a CB is, the less he is thrown at. What I actually like the most when quickly evaluating CBs is QB passer rating against said CB, how many passes are completed against said CB, how often said CB is targeted, etc.
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Like I said, if this team felt as though it was close to being a contender, they could have both beefed up the pass rush and beefed up the secondary in one offseason since they had so much cap space. And the benefit of upgrading the secondary as opposed to pass rush (if I have to choose one) is that all of the top guys were going for below last year's market-value. They could have just drafted one of the many pass rushers who are slated to go in the top ten.
Hell, they could have signed Kruger and a good CB and just started Hughes/Winn, and spent very little over what they've currently spent now. I thought Hughes was good enough to start, but apparently not.
I think they can still draft Jones or Jordon in the first, and take Honey Badger or Logan Ryan in the third. Jones dropping because he has a questionably 40 time at his pro-day. Yet on film he plays like a beast...yea right!! Haden's 40 time was questionable too.
I also don't follow the hype Steelers and Ravens are severely weaken. Ozzie has 12 draft picks in this draft. Steelers always dump having another waiting to take his place. Cincy is overlooked. Browns will struggle getting out of the basement, but I do think we make a push. Browns regrouped last year, so many will go into their second year. Lombardi must continue adding talent through the draft. Luckily he didn't need to overhaul the roster.
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Like I said, if this team felt as though it was close to being a contender, they could have both beefed up the pass rush and beefed up the secondary in one offseason since they had so much cap space. And the benefit of upgrading the secondary as opposed to pass rush (if I have to choose one) is that all of the top guys were going for below last year's market-value. They could have just drafted one of the many pass rushers who are slated to go in the top ten.
Hell, they could have signed Kruger and a good CB and just started Hughes/Winn, and spent very little over what they've currently spent now. I thought Hughes was good enough to start, but apparently not.
I think they can still draft Jones or Jordon in the first, and take Honey Badger or Logan Ryan in the third. Jones dropping because he has a questionably 40 time at his pro-day. Yet on film he plays like a beast...yea right!! Haden's 40 time was questionable too.
I also don't follow the hype Steelers and Ravens are severely weaken. Ozzie has 12 draft picks in this draft. Steelers always dump having another waiting to take his place. Cincy is overlooked. Browns will struggle getting out of the basement, but I do think we make a push. Browns regrouped last year, so many will go into their second year. Lombardi must continue adding talent through the draft. Luckily he didn't need to overhaul the roster.
Sorry, but I severely doubt Mathieu is anything more than an excellent nickelback in the NFL. And most agree with me. He's not fast or tall enough to play on the outside. And the idea of starting 3rd rounders at CB, even if you're a team that doesn't expect to make the POs, isn't realistic IMO. Why kill your secondary and hurt your PO chances so much if you didn't have to?
BTW: I'm not opposed at all to bringing in Mathieu in the draft. I just don't like him penciled in as a starting CB on the outside.
And I'm not going to get into the other teams in the division and their various weaknesses. I do think the Browns have a shot at the POs, though.
I think we'll agree to disagree on this issue. 
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Like I said, if this team felt as though it was close to being a contender, they could have both beefed up the pass rush and beefed up the secondary in one offseason since they had so much cap space. And the benefit of upgrading the secondary as opposed to pass rush (if I have to choose one) is that all of the top guys were going for below last year's market-value. They could have just drafted one of the many pass rushers who are slated to go in the top ten.
Hell, they could have signed Kruger and a good CB and just started Hughes/Winn, and spent very little over what they've currently spent now. I thought Hughes was good enough to start, but apparently not.
I think they can still draft Jones or Jordon in the first, and take Honey Badger or Logan Ryan in the third. Jones dropping because he has a questionably 40 time at his pro-day. Yet on film he plays like a beast...yea right!! Haden's 40 time was questionable too.
I also don't follow the hype Steelers and Ravens are severely weaken. Ozzie has 12 draft picks in this draft. Steelers always dump having another waiting to take his place. Cincy is overlooked. Browns will struggle getting out of the basement, but I do think we make a push. Browns regrouped last year, so many will go into their second year. Lombardi must continue adding talent through the draft. Luckily he didn't need to overhaul the roster.
Sorry, but I severely doubt Mathieu is anything more than an excellent nickelback in the NFL. And most agree with me. He's not fast or tall enough to play on the outside. And the idea of starting 3rd rounders at CB, even if you're a team that doesn't expect to make the POs, isn't realistic IMO. Why kill your secondary and hurt your PO chances so much if you didn't have to?
BTW: I'm not opposed at all to bringing in Mathieu in the draft. I just don't like him penciled in as a starting CB on the outside.
And I'm not going to get into the other teams in the division and their various weaknesses. I do think the Browns have a shot at the POs, though.
I think we'll agree to disagree on this issue.
Feel the same with Mathieu...he looked tiny in college is gunna look even smaller in the NFL...his foot speed is that of a 6'2 210lb corner..has a ton of baggage major concerns..he could potentially be a good nickel or dime back..then again every poor CB can potentially be a good dime back...I wouldn't touch Honey Badger before round 5...we have corners to serve as our #3, 4, 5 CB...just need that stud to pair with Haden...and some might say a very good-elite nickel back in case a starter was to go down...but as long as we get a nice stud to pair with Haden I'm content for the time being
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Where can one find CBs ranked by that stat? It would be great but I don't know if anyone has ever broke it down and ranked players in that way. Cox has health issues and stats consistent with Sheldon Brown.Toler layed 11 games last season and has 27 tackles 2 ints and 9 PD.Wouldn't want Pacman even if he could play.LAst season was his first 16 game season. My point is not to determine who is better than who but if I am our FO I look at what is out there and see few upgrades from Sheldon Brown. I still say DeAngelo Hall had 95 tackles 4 ints and 18 PDs IIRC. I would offer him a contract with incentives directly related to his behavior for a year or two.
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Where can one find CBs ranked by that stat? It would be great but I don't know if anyone has ever broke it down and ranked players in that way. Cox has health issues and stats consistent with Sheldon Brown.Toler layed 11 games last season and has 27 tackles 2 ints and 9 PD.Wouldn't want Pacman even if he could play.LAst season was his first 16 game season. My point is not to determine who is better than who but if I am our FO I look at what is out there and see few upgrades from Sheldon Brown. I still say DeAngelo Hall had 95 tackles 4 ints and 18 PDs IIRC. I would offer him a contract with incentives directly related to his behavior for a year or two.
You can find stats like that on profootballfocus.com
Not everything on that site is totally reliable, though. But their stats for DBs are usually good IMO. And in general, it's good for gathering a general idea of how good (or bad) a player is.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
j/c
It would have been nice to have signed Grimes then again we all are picturing him from 2011 before his injury. Dolphins offering a lot - I don't understand their all out effort to get to .500 lol 
Nobody I can remember who made it to the SB with Multiple FA investments as a key.
If we were/are desperate we have several veteran FA CBs we could sign to ONE Year Contracts. The draft has two different options to deal with this "IF" we need to deal with it.
1. Draft a CB in the first who hopefully can contribute as a starter sometime in year ONE.
2. Draft multiple CB Prospects including UDFA's that we have done our job evaluating. aka Bademosi dawgs talking about was a UDFA from last year. Gipson also....
I would like to see how our D operates how aggresive do we want this - can Skrine, Wade, Bademosi n other youngsters including add the 2 we just signed in FA into that NUMBER competition to find enough quality to be competitive.
Dawgs there is more than one way to skin a cat. Quite frankly I have seen a lot of supposedly BEST every type of CBs go into the FA market n get a bundle...to only have them turn out to be big disappointments CB??? I wanted Talib..the rest to me were Ehhh take em or leave em.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161 |
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Sorry, but I severely doubt Mathieu is anything more than an excellent nickelback in the NFL. And most agree with me. He's not fast or tall enough to play on the outside. And the idea of starting 3rd rounders at CB, even if you're a team that doesn't expect to make the POs, isn't realistic IMO. Why kill your secondary and hurt your PO chances so much if you didn't have to?
BTW: I'm not opposed at all to bringing in Mathieu in the draft. I just don't like him penciled in as a starting CB on the outside.
And I'm not going to get into the other teams in the division and their various weaknesses. I do think the Browns have a shot at the POs, though.
I think we'll agree to disagree on this issue.
I see Honey Badger similar to Cortland Finnegan. He plays physical and a bit of instigator. He plays well up on the LOS. Since Browns do not have a second, you have to weigh options going LB or DB with the first and third round picks. To me, Jordon and Jones are better first round options. You have to remember with CB's who can play tight, QB won't through to that receiver if they are hurried. I do understand baggage, but without it, he easily moves up into an early or mid second.
On the other board, I wasn't so hip getting Gordon for a second draft pick. As you can see, it really causes issues. Gordon must turn into a top receiver this season. Expectations for a fist and second rounder is quality starters. He is pretty green a lot to expect. I would have gone FA receiver route last season.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Not sure why you would get so upset because the Browns didn't sign a corner. I thought you were a Chargers' fan?
I agree w/you on some things, but not going to bother talking about that. I disagree w/you on a couple of things though:
--The quality of the FA corners. I think you--and to a certain extent the media--are vastly overrating those guys. I don't think spending money on junk is a good idea in FA. We've tried that. Brandon Jackson, Usama Young, Chris Gocong, Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace, etc. I wanted Grimes. Miami overpaid him. Time to move on.
--The Browns ready for the playoffs? Did you watch us play last year. This team is far away from that. We got smoked by good teams like Denver, the Giants, and Washington. Smoked. We did play our division rivals tough, but this team has a ton of holes and is a couple of years away. I think it's pretty obvious the FO recognizes that by the way we are approaching FA.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 343
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 343 |
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Not sure why you would get so upset because the Browns didn't sign a corner. I thought you were a Chargers' fan?
I'm a Chargers fan at heart, but I've always been partial to some of the league's more recent underdogs (Browns, Bills, etc).
So yeah, I do get upset because I truly like the Browns and thought they could have done better. Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not a professional GM.
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I agree w/you on some things, but not going to bother talking about that. I disagree w/you on a couple of things though:
--The quality of the FA corners. I think you--and to a certain extent the media--are vastly overrating those guys. I don't think spending money on junk is a good idea in FA. We've tried that. Brandon Jackson, Usama Young, Chris Gocong, Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace, etc. I wanted Grimes. Miami overpaid him. Time to move on.
The media doesn't talk about those guys at all so I'm not sure how that could contribute to them being overrated. And none of the guys I've mentioned are "junk" by any means (when compared to Sheldon Brown), at least according to statistics and popular sentiment.
They're certainly better pickups than any of the busts you listed.
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--The Browns ready for the playoffs? Did you watch us play last year. This team is far away from that. We got smoked by good teams like Denver, the Giants, and Washington. Smoked. We did play our division rivals tough, but this team has a ton of holes and is a couple of years away. I think it's pretty obvious the FO recognizes that by the way we are approaching FA.
I'm not the only one who thinks they have a shot.
Regarding the manner in which they're approaching FA, I don't see how signing someone like Bryant is all that different from signing a CB instead. Both would be good players, and both are being signed at the peak of their careers (by a team that allegedly won't make the POs). Only one of them would actually play at a position of need, and at a position that a rookie would struggle greatly at. Especially in Horton's system, which is pretty freaking complicated. There's a reason it took the Cardinals a year to start playing good defense under Horton. His system, like LeBeau's in Pittsburgh, is hard to learn and doesn't conduce to rookies starting.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
j/c For all of those that claimed we didn't look at other CB's because we told Grimes agent we'd beat other offers and that we would still end up signing him? I noticed your stories have changed and the backtracking is in full bloom. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
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Here is where you and I disagree. Skrine struggled because of lack of pressure on the QB.
Horton and Jauron are totally different styles. Horton does his work with the front seven. Jauron uses the secondary.
Fair enough, I love Skrine's speed. I think he has value in a matchup role and obviously S/T. But I still see liability that will get exploited if we try him against a big target or up on the LOS. I hope Skrine works out and I hope we get more pressure on the QB. Bryant and Kruger should make us better there.
Jauron has gotten "knocked" for the lack of attack, but we still got to the QB last year. I think we were around 10th in sacks.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161 |
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Jauron has gotten "knocked" for the lack of attack, but we still got to the QB last year. I think we were around 10th in sacks.
"Lack of attack" is true. That is his style. He doesn't not blitz LB's very often. When he does blitz, it is usually a DB. There are two ways to skin a cat Horton's way and Jauron's way. Both are equally effective with the right personal. People like "attack" schemes because it is more exciting. Jauron had some pretty decent defenses in Chicago and Buffalo, but only true football fans can appreciate. I favor "attack" schemes. I think you can do a lot more with less.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
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He doesn't not blitz LB's very often.
Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis?
The thing with an Attacking style defense is that you are gambling big on every down. Not saying that is good or bad, it just is. You are gambling that with your increased pressure, that you can still cover and play the run long enough to get to the QB. You're playing that gamble anyway, but the risk is higher when you're always attacking. If you don't have the personnel to make it work, you're defense is going to get eaten alive.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161 |
Quote:
Quote:
He doesn't not blitz LB's very often.
Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis?
The thing with an Attacking style defense is that you are gambling big on every down. Not saying that is good or bad, it just is. You are gambling that with your increased pressure, that you can still cover and play the run long enough to get to the QB. You're playing that gamble anyway, but the risk is higher when you're always attacking. If you don't have the personnel to make it work, you're defense is going to get eaten alive.
Google Jauron's defensive scheme. His is not a blitz style DC. That is not saying it is bad or wrong. Jauron uses DB schemes as key to his defense. He uses DL to control the run game and pressure the QB.
Attack style defense is where the front seven is assigned a gap and fill it. Jauron uses a read react where the front seven is assigned a gap to protect while collapsing the pocket.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
I know all of that. Apparently my use of humor in pointing out your grammatical snafu was missed 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,161 |
Quote:
I know all of that. Apparently my use of humor in pointing out your grammatical snafu was missed
Missed it twice! Thanks!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns interview CB Brent Grimes.
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