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It became apparent last year during FA signing period that Cleveland WAS NOT a destination of interest for many players. Losing records, staff and organizational issues were at the forefront as to why players were NOT attracted to play for our Browns. Are we having the SAME problem this year? We have a PILE of cash that can be spent and we probably overpaid for Kruger and Bryant, but since day 1, we have not seemed to garner much interest from players. We clearly have a need at DB and TE and there is a LOT of talented players available (IMO) in FA. WHY have we NOT addressed any of these? Is it a matter of us being cheap or do players NOT want to play here? I believe this is a problem and with a team with no 2nd rd draft pick we better get something figured out real soon. This creates a situation where we will have ZERO flexibility in the draft and may have to take a player at #6 who doesn't deserve to be selected there or we pick a value pick at a position we really don't need filled at this point. Anyways I certainly hope we get this sorted out ASAP
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You might be able to make the case that our unsettled QB position with give offensive FAs pause about coming here. We've been able to get defensive help in (and could still sign a CB or TE). Despite having cash to spend, however, you don't want throw it away on a vet who's best football is behind him. It's early still and we may not be done yet.
I think the FO has done a good job so far (and I'm one who was/remains skeptical of them). Let's wait and see how the rest of the off-season (through the draft) plays out before we start drawing too many conclusions.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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I don't think that the front office was all that interested in blowing through every last dollar.
They said, going into free agency, that they would probably sign a couple of big contracts, and then fill holes with more affordable players. That seems to be the pattern so far.
Many of the top end CB, for example, are gone now, but there are still some quality 2nd level Cbs left. Same with the TE position. There are still a couple of Safeties available as well, like Huff and Rhodes, who are upper level quality, but who might have a reasonable price tag as teams begin to exhaust their available cap space.
All in all, I think that things are probably going largely according to plan for the Browns thus far .... even if not according to the plans set forth by some fans.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No offense intended, but multiple times per year fans state no players want to play for the Browns because of a multitude of reasons, and every year we land free agents.
The truth remains what it has always been: Money talks.
If you want to try and diagnose why there aren't more free agents landing in Cleveland, you need to look at how many come in for visits but don't sign. So, add up all the free agents who have come in, then count how many left without a contract. If most leave without contracts, we're either cheap or they don't want to play here. Seeing as how we gave good money to Kruger and Bryant, it's obvious we're not cheap.
Unless I'm mistaken, Grimes is the only guy to visit that left without a contract.
There are still MANY high-end free agents on the market. In many cases, agents, players, and teams are waiting for those high-caliber guys to sign in order to set the market. Consider that two of the top-3 corners are still out there. The top LT on the market. The top safety is on the market. So on and so forth.
Fans are typically way too impatient. We aren't going to become a Super Bowl contender overnight, especially if we sign every free agent available.
We're not done with free agency. Have some patience.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yeah I'm pretty sure the fact we don't have an established Franchise QB can effect the competition for some FA WRs n TEs. Tannehill??? I don't think so. Denver, GB, 49ers, Pats, Saints, Redskins, Colts I'm sure would get some interest well over to what they would give us. (Note I might have missed a QB or two but trying to make a point).
We have a pretty respected coaching staff so that should negate a lot of conceptions that we are not a team on the rise??? Lots of Ohio based players that would love to make the Browns relevant again!
But point blank...Winning is the cure ALL  We got to start winning.
In lieu of all that I think we have done a great job in this FA market n the contracts seem sensible. The lack of WR or TE signings might be due to no established Franchise QB but quite frankly I just see us not being players in some very over priced contracts.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We suck and it's Cleveland
I figured this was a well known fact as to why guys don't come here
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Quote:
We suck and it's Cleveland
I figured this was a well known fact as to why guys don't come here
That might also explain why only one Browns FA (Kaluka Maiava) has found a new gig.
Cribbs? Nope. Dawson? Uh-uh. Ben Watson? Nada. None of them. Only Kaluka Maiava! 
I understand that Dawson will probably find a job eventually after teams decide on how the rest of their spots will be filled out. Dawson may not find a job until after the draft is over.
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Rookie
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didnt cribbs sign with arizona? i get your point though. the ones we released or let go into FA havent gotten much interest from other teams.
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Maybe. I think it's even been reported but I see no details of the signing and nothing official that I've seen has him as part of the Cardinals.
The NFL hasn't apparently gotten the message.
I don't think that a deal has been struck yet between Cribbs and Arizona. He's stated his intention to play for the Cardinals next season, but no contract has been formalized making this a reality... just yet.
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Legend
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It became apparent last year during FA signing period that Cleveland WAS NOT a destination of interest for many players
I don't think it was apparent at all.. Not even a little bit.
Outside of a bit of a spree the first year under Holmgren and Heckert, they didn't do much in Free Agency by design.
And for all the beatings those two get, they left us in better shape then when the got here. Look at the CAP space. We have a Running back that played injured all year and still had a decent year. We also have a couple of young WR's that I personally think are going to surprise folks this year.
Not to mention our Dline and Oline is better than it's ever been. Of course, we're switching defensive systems so not doubt, some changes will take place, but the people we do have are better than what was here.
So I don't know how it's apparent at all.
Is it possible,, I guess it is. Almost anything is.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Duh ..without a franchise QB and a lack of elite offensive talent, that's the way it is in the NFL. No suprise here.
Only a huge turnaround will change the fact that the Browns are the bottom dwellers of the league.
Only by workiing harder then everyone will we be better then anyone. Only hard work and relentless practice will we rise above it all.
No free agent can fix it!
Last edited by PerfectSpiral; 03/17/13 03:32 PM.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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All Pro
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We suck and it's Cleveland
I figured this was a well known fact as to why guys don't come here
Who could resist Cleveland's clean balmy beaches, temperate climate, beach resorts, water sports, five star dining and top notch neighborhoods with the country's best educational system? It has to be the cost of parking downtown. Yep. That's it.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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2nd String
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Outside of a bit of a spree the first year under Holmgren and Heckert, they didn't do much in Free Agency by design.
And for all the beatings those two get, they left us in better shape then when the got here. Look at the CAP space. We have a Running back that played injured all year and still had a decent year. We also have a couple of young WR's that I personally think are going to surprise folks this year.
Not to mention our Dline and Oline is better than it's ever been. Of course, we're switching defensive systems so not doubt, some changes will take place, but the people we do have are better than what was here.
I agree, and I don't get the bashing of Heckert. I think he did a decent job considering what he was working with, which was a guy that Lerner hired to be the Head of all football operations, President, Czar, whatever you wished to name him, which I believe heavily influenced decisions that Tom would make, and the OC he hired to be a first time Head Coach/OC while trying to build a young team through the draft. Shurmur simply had too much responsibility for a rookie HC.
More so, the Lerners are to blame, and the poor decisions they've made that spanned for over a decade are what kept this organization at the bottom. Great organizations that win championships are good from top to bottom (especially the top) and we haven't had that. H&H did leave this organization in pretty good shape, and I like the fact that ownership has changed, and I like what's been done so far.
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Overpayed? Kruger was cheap considering what most thought he would get. Even Bryants contract is pretty average.
Those of you expecting them to blow the cap on FAs have no clue how the cap works.Think of Butch Davis and the way they had to clean house after.
This FO has made solid signings at positions of need, yet some fans are still griping.
#gmstrong
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Grimes is a guy that i really like but honestly, I would never sign a guy coming off of an achilles injury unless it was on the major cheap side. I know this is not fact but my perception is Achilles equates loss of burst and or reinjury.
I also think Heckert went out of his way to build a Browns team philosophy with very little input from free agency. I think Rubin and DQ sets the standard on defense of what is and isn't acceptable. Joe Thomas and Trent Richardson now do that for the offensive side. Guys we bring in now will have a standard to be held to instead of the Browns trying to absorb whatever free agency mentality that is brought with the FA we sign.
Again money talks 8 times out of 10. the other 2 is a combination of chance to win and location.
Last year there were a lot of teams with money to spend and we were outbid on a few guys that I thought ended up being vastly overpaid. This year there is less money throughout the league and we were loaded and still have a good amount to spend. I really hope we can get Ward, Haden, Lauvao and Mack wrapped up with some of that extra cash as well.
BTW I think this team is ready to take the AFC North if we can get decent QB play.
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Maybe. I think it's even been reported but I see no details of the signing and nothing official that I've seen has him as part of the Cardinals.
The NFL hasn't apparently gotten the message.
I don't think that a deal has been struck yet between Cribbs and Arizona. He's stated his intention to play for the Cardinals next season, but no contract has been formalized making this a reality... just yet.
I think that Cribbs may have jumped the gun.
Again.
For about the 3rd or 4th time this off-season.
I love the guy and the way he has played for the Browns over the year .... and I love his desire to be the best possible player he can be ..... but he really needs to learn when to stay quiet.
I still remember when he said that his agent was negotiating dollars with several teams during the time when they weren't even allowed to discuss the possibility of a player moving. Now that may have happened, but Cribbs saying that flashed a huge red flag at anyone hoping to sign him as free agency opened, because no one wanted to be accused of tampering.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Outside of a bit of a spree the first year under Holmgren and Heckert, they didn't do much in Free Agency by design.
And for all the beatings those two get, they left us in better shape then when the got here. Look at the CAP space. We have a Running back that played injured all year and still had a decent year. We also have a couple of young WR's that I personally think are going to surprise folks this year.
Not to mention our Dline and Oline is better than it's ever been. Of course, we're switching defensive systems so not doubt, some changes will take place, but the people we do have are better than what was here.
I agree, and I don't get the bashing of Heckert. I think he did a decent job considering what he was working with, which was a guy that Lerner hired to be the Head of all football operations, President, Czar, whatever you wished to name him, which I believe heavily influenced decisions that Tom would make, and the OC he hired to be a first time Head Coach/OC while trying to build a young team through the draft. Shurmur simply had too much responsibility for a rookie HC.
More so, the Lerners are to blame, and the poor decisions they've made that spanned for over a decade are what kept this organization at the bottom. Great organizations that win championships are good from top to bottom (especially the top) and we haven't had that. H&H did leave this organization in pretty good shape, and I like the fact that ownership has changed, and I like what's been done so far.
You know what,, I don't blame Randy or Al.. Neither of them were REAL football guys. If you look at the resumes of those they did hire, you will see success all over them. Not being a football guy, but being more of a Business guy, they made some bad choices, but they were acts of Commission not acts of Omission.
They tried, unsuccessfully, but I don't doubt for one second their sincerity and desire to bring a winner to the lake front.
At this moment, I don't know if Haslam is going to be any better, but as a business man, he's been WAY more successful than Al or Randy ever has. I mean, by a WIDE margin. he played football and he's been a booster for his college. Big supporter.
And he got an internship with the Steelers which given their success, I'd say that's a great learning ground.
So now he's here, brought in Banner, Chud, Turner and Horton. Banner brought in Lombardi (which I really don't think Haslam was sold on by the look on his face at the introductory presser and the words he used about Lombardi being somewhat controversial so I think he was just giving his guy, the guy he wanted)
I look at Chud, Turner and Horton and I have confidence.
I am warming to Banner but it will be a while before I buy into Lombardi. Not sure I ever will.
I guess my point is, while I think the Lerners did a lousy job, I don't blame them too much because I believe the desire to succeed was there,, Just poor decisions.
Jury hasn't even been chosen in the case of Haslam vs Browns Fans..
we'll see about him and his group. But as far as it being a place players don't want to play, I think that's more of a function (if even true) of them being losers more so then the city or our region of the Country.
As we show we are improving, it will get better and easier.
But I think money talks..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid.  I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that. We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
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Quote:
I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid.
I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that.
We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
Ain't a word of this that I disagree with and I wasn't all that high on bringing Kruger over. The Browns might have gone a little high (for my liking) for Kruger but it isn't horrible. I thought that they could probably get him for a $1 - $1.5 million per year less, but they probably compromised and came up with the $8 million per year deal.
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Quote:
I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid.
I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that.
We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
I agree 100%.
I did hear $10 million + per year before free agency opened. Then we signed him so quickly after the feeding frenzy began, and I figured that it was going to be for even more than that.
I was shocked when I heard almost a flat $8 million/year.
My first thought was "Man, what a bargain!"
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid.
I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that.
We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
I agree, but you have to understand that the majority of fans on these boards have never had a winning Browns team and the majority of their competitive sports involvement includes a video game.
It bugs them they can't "buy" a cheat code to finally beat the game.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid.
I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that.
We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
I agree, but you have to understand that the majority of fans on these boards have never had a winning Browns team and the majority of their competitive sports involvement includes a video game.
It bugs them they can't "buy" a cheat code to finally beat the game.
Good one
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You guys act like its your own money. Kruger's contract is below what people were predicting it was going to be, especially since he had just been on a SB winning team.
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looking like clevelandbrowns.com board around here
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looking like clevelandbrowns.com board around here
pretty much is lol. go read the posts for the whole year and not the last 2 week lol
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I'm glad they haven't gone crazy in FA. I do like for the most part the two main signings. I think we overpaid a tad but that's FA, especially when you are trying to get those young guys on their second contract. But with that comes many unknowns- Bryant having to change schemes and positions, Kruger having a very small sample size in a contract year, then the reasons they left. Heck, if there weren't any unknowns or concerns, their former employer would have done what was necessary to keep them. I'm optimistic both will work out and overall think it's money well spent.
Not to beat a dead horse but we also have a few guys worth extending that are already on our roster, not just this year but 2014 as well. That may cost a ton of money. So I like that Banner isn't throwing money around just because we have it.
I also appreciate his prudence in Fred Davis and Brent Grimes. Banner is proving his worth on the business end but the draft is where consistent winners are built. April will be interesting as always.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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hi overtoad pleaure seeing you again.
sorry to point out something different but at least one of are lineman has been told to save money because banner cuts everybody at 30.
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Quote:
hi overtoad pleaure seeing you again.
sorry to point out something different but at least one of are lineman has been told to save money because banner cuts everybody at 30.
???? 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I dont want to see us in cap hell in a few years. I like a more conservative approach to FA's.
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hi overtoad pleaure seeing you again.
sorry to point out something different but at least one of are lineman has been told to save money because banner cuts everybody at 30.
Howdy Jackson. 
Banner does have the old-school Eagles reputation of not extending the contracts of players over 30. However, I'd need you to expand on your thought regarding cutting or reducing the contract of a player because I'm not fully certain of which player you're referring to...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid.
I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that.
We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
I agree 100%.
I did hear $10 million + per year before free agency opened. Then we signed him so quickly after the feeding frenzy began, and I figured that it was going to be for even more than that.
I was shocked when I heard almost a flat $8 million/year.
My first thought was "Man, what a bargain!"
I was shocked also.
I lmao every time I hear someone say "Over payed" or "Noone wants to come to Cleveland". It floors me.
Money talks and it always will. Noone will ever convince me that guys look at this Coaching Staff and say NOPE, don't wanna go there. The only 2 reasons someone won't come here are a higher offer elsewhere or wanting to go to a team that has proven itself Super Bowl worthy. And most of those guys are on their LAST contracts, not their 2nd.
Guys like Kruger and Bryant got exactly what they would've gotten if they re-signed with their current teams. It's their 2nd contracts. And Haden will get exactly what he would from us when we extend him as compared to him hitting FA.
What's even more shocking to me is the prices of these CB's being signed. Lewis, Smith, DRC. 6M or so a year is dirt cheap for starting caliber corners compared to what guys like Clements and Asomugha got in years past.
We'll get a CB. The entire league is letting the market settle down. It doesn't have anything to do with us. It's got everything to do with teams being SMART. It's really kind of wild with as high as the Cap is this year and so many teams with serious Cap Space, yet not one single player has been signed to a crazy Mario Williams type contract.
I know one thing for sure. Agents are PO'd. Too bad. LOL.
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I dont want to see us in cap hell in a few years. I like a more conservative approach to FA's.
I can't wait for the day we have to pay our QB a king's ransome. 
GO BROWNS!
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Been away from the internet the past 4 days and just saw that we didn't sign anyone new and now I see this thread up...
Can anyone give me a recap on what happened since wednesday/thursday? If it's about rumors, I'd appreciate PMs too
Somewhat disappointed to see CB Cason signed for a cheap 2mil and us not being in it, same goes for ILB Burnett. That said, we can still make up...FS Rhodes or Huff, CB Munnerlyn or Grimes, TE F.Davis, for ILB there are still Dansby, B.Jones and DJ Williams available...and I'd try to sign Kolb for QB competition, dude is much better than his reputation...he'd go from the worst pass protecting OL to one of the best, he'd look much better and would represent serious competition for Weeden...he has the arm for Norv's system
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Just my opinion...
Im sure there is something to this. It isnt always ALL about the money. If we start to win more, the team will be more attractive. Who the heck wants to lose all the time?
Also, all things being equal (or at least close) how many 25 year olds would pick living in Cleveland over somewhere with sunny beaches and girls in bikini's?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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You guys act like its your own money. Kruger's contract is below what people were predicting it was going to be, especially since he had just been on a SB winning team.
Not sure that was directed at me... I don't think I ever commented on Krugers contract
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
...somewhere with sunny beaches and girls in bikini's?
Lake Erie is not a tourist destination?... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Legend
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hi overtoad pleaure seeing you again.
sorry to point out something different but at least one of are lineman has been told to save money because banner cuts everybody at 30.
Well then that pretty much locks up Geno Smith at #6  
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
...somewhere with sunny beaches and girls in bikini's?
Lake Erie is not a tourist destination?...
LOL - Hey they have Cedar Point!!
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't feel we overpaid for Kruger at all. Before FA began, I was hearing $10--12 million a year. Now, we sign him for less and people say we overpaid.
I think people would be complaining if we went crazy in FA. We are playing it conservatively, so you complain about that.
We have such a loser mentality. It's aggravating.
I agree, but you have to understand that the majority of fans on these boards have never had a winning Browns team and the majority of their competitive sports involvement includes a video game.
It bugs them they can't "buy" a cheat code to finally beat the game.
I think it's the fact they go year in and year out with hopes and dreams that get crushed on an annual basis. It's enough to make anyone negative and very much of a skeptic.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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i didnt know weeden was a lineman ?
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