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So people complain we are ignoring the TE and CB position...
Then we sign a TE and a CB. ..
And people complain..
Just saying..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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So people complain we are ignoring the TE and CB position...
Then we sign a TE and a CB. ..
And people complain..
Just saying..
and I would stop complaining about the CB position
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Really? That would be freaking HUGE!!!! I've wanted this guy all along---provided he was healthy. I still wanna hear about his health, but man........that would be awesome!
Agree 100%!!!!
<><
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There is a very recent video of a Grimes workout where he looks pretty darn healthy. Running, jumping cutting etc.
If Grimes doesn't end up here, it'll be because HE chose not to come - not because we didn't want him.
This Owens signing may help swing him. And if we get Grimes, I'd call this a pretty good FA period all of a sudden. This would free us up to pick BPA and a better position to trade for a 2nd and stiil get impact.
+1 agree 100%...now let's get him inked 
If there's fire with all the smoke I'm smelling on Facebook, we're cosing in on Grimes & a 2 year deal...
who on facebook? details please
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3 different 'Backers Clubs. And they're just saying "sources close to the Browns" without posting any links...
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ahhh....not really what i wanted to hear.......well....we shall see. If we sign grimes and millner is there at 6....what do we do? draft the kid anyways or try to bate someone into giving up allot for him?
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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I knew Martin Rucker leaving would backfire. What was/is so wrong with Alex Smith? Where is Evan Moore, and Where is he again?
Rucker only has 2 catches in his career, in 2008, hasn't had a single catch in the last three years while playing for Dallas, Jacksonville, and KC.
Evan Moore had one catch last year for Seattle, and then got cut in after 14 games.
Meanwhile, Jordan Cameron had 20 catches last year. I fail to see how we're hurting for Moore and Rucker.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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ahhh....not really what i wanted to hear.......well....we shall see. If we sign grimes and millner is there at 6....what do we do? draft the kid anyways or try to bate someone into giving up allot for him?
I'll wait until we sign grimes before I worry too much about that 
<><
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They sent that dreaded Cleveland Browns private jet to Grimes huh? Well it didn't work for the coach now in Philadelphia,
To my knowledge, they never sent the Corporate jet to get Chip Kelly. They interviewed him in Arizona on a Friday, spent 7 hours or so with him, were supposed to meet for dinner the next night, he blew off the Browns and the next day, the browns said,, no thank you, we're moving on.
So where did you get the corporate jet thing for Kelly?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I knew Martin Rucker leaving would backfire. What was/is so wrong with Alex Smith? Where is Evan Moore, and Where is he again?
Rucker only has 2 catches in his career, in 2008, hasn't had a single catch in the last three years while playing for Dallas, Jacksonville, and KC.
Evan Moore had one catch last year for Seattle, and then got cut in after 14 games.
Meanwhile, Jordan Cameron had 20 catches last year. I fail to see how we're hurting for Moore and Rucker.
There are times when I am not so sure if Throw Long is being sarcastic ...... or not ..... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think that's the point. I think.
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3 different 'Backers Clubs. And they're just saying "sources close to the Browns" without posting any links...
Thanks for the info I hope it turns to be the truth we could really use Grimes
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LOL......that's funny, because I sure don't know how to take the guy. His posts confound me.
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ahhh....not really what i wanted to hear.......well....we shall see. If we sign grimes and millner is there at 6....what do we do? draft the kid anyways or try to bate someone into giving up allot for him?
If I couldn't trade down, Milliner topped my board, & he was still there at pick 6? I wouldn't think twice about taking him.
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and I'll tell you, Pit------it was hard for me to even watch the game this past year. I hated wasting 3 hours on crap football and I couldn't wait until the game was over. I only watched them out of some sort of distorted sense of loyalty.
That's interesting Vers and goes to show how much perceptions can differ...I and many other good posters on here (Mourg above all) saw the most talented Browns team in a long time and not onlay that...we saw competitive games all season long. Tell me one thing: did you see them even once lay down and not care anymore? That happend in every 3rd/4th game under Davis, Crennel and Mangini...complete blowouts and uncompetitive/uninsoired play...I didn't see or even sense that once for an entire game...well maybe for the last possession in a 2 score game at the end but even then they played hard and were professionals for the most time.
Maybe my view was distorted a bit in hopes Heckert would be retained, but what you said seems like the exact opposite as if you were silently rooting against them because you didn't like the regime? because I can't see how to NOT see the difference between last year's team and, let's say, Mangini's, who you defended to the core....There was some really bad coaching in both regimes but in terms of talent and competitiveness not even close imho.
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I certainly understand that line of thinking and kinda feel the same way myself. You and I go way back, and I'll tell you, Pit------it was hard for me to even watch the game this past year. I hated wasting 3 hours on crap football and I couldn't wait until the game was over. I only watched them out of some sort of distorted sense of loyalty.
Heck, I don't know if the new guys are going to be good or not. With our luck, they probably won't be. I'm just HOPING they will be and I will at least give some time before I go nuts bashing them.
Anyway, no hard feelings--I hope. Take care, Dawg.
No hard feelings at all. I'm glad that at least to some extent you understand my feelings. I would probably be more in line with your thinking if it weren't for the Lombardi hire.
After that, somebody is going to have to show something. With his "proven track record" of ineptitude at drafting, giving him the position of GM?
Well I can't help but be skeptical. We'll see and for all of our sakes I'm hoping it's you that is right about all of this.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c...
Some thoughts.
1. FA besides getting key pieces I also see it as eliminating any URGENT NEED for the draft so you can go via your Draft Board of BPA - note that would be "OUR" draft board not Kipers or Mayock's 
2. Grimes would make a weakness into a strength n I would feel even more confident in the Banner/Lombardi partnership. We get rid of an Aged Brown n an Oft Injured Patterson n upgrade on them w/Grimes n Owens. Along with the Natural EVOLVING of young players...Bademosi, Skrine n Wade (put the 23 year old Haden in there too) We will have a very Good CB UNIT going into the draft.
3. On D there are two positions you cannot have enough of. Good CBs in all D systems n Pass Rushers (3-4 would be OLB) If we come away with Grimes n Butler (Cowboys) we would be sitting good. Also in both UNITS (CB n OLB) taking a pre-FA weakness n make both into a strength.
4. Does this mean we will be taking Geno Smith...Sorry no, nothing changes.
We got Weeden n Colt. There is no "URGENT NEED"
We got Kruger, Groves, Sheard n "IF" Butler
We got Owens, Haden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Haden n "IF" Grimes
There will be no URGENT NEED!
Then the draft will be BPA or no regrets on trading back if we target a player (Ansah) n he's gone...or Millner n he's gone...or Geno n he's gone.
Two "IF" so not accountable. But if both sign here...excellent FA work by Banner/Lombardi  If not signed...still their PLAN was good just cause of our unattractive status as a Fickle team more than their effort n lack of execution of THE PLAN...
JMHO man this could be great!!!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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What? Under Mangini, in 2010, we did the following: 14-17 Tampa Bay 14-16 Kansas City 17-24 Ravens 23-20 Bengals 10-20 Falcons 10-28 Steelers 30-17 Saints 34-14 Patriots 20-26 Jets 20-24 Jaguars 24-23 Panthers 13-10 Dolphins 6-13 Bills 17-19 Bengals 10-20 Ravens 9-41 Steelers (when it was already well known that Mangini would be fired) So for the year we lost games by 2, 2, 7, 10, 18, 6. 4, 7, 2, 10, and 32, We had a total of 4 losses that were more than 1 score ..... 1 against the Falcons, 2 against the Steelers, and 1 against the Ravens. In 2010, we did the following: 17-27 Bengals 27-19 Indy 17-16 Dolphins 13-31 Titans 17-24 Raiders 6-3 Seahawks 10-20 Niners 12-30 Texans 12-13 Rams 14-10 Jags 20-23 Bengals 10-24 Ravens 3-14 Steelers 17-20 Cardinals 14-20 Ravens 9-13 Steelers In 2011, we lost games by 10, 18, 7, 3, 10, 18, 1, 3, 14, 11, 6, and 4. We has 6 double digit losses in 2011. How is that an improvement? You can look at 2012, if you want, but back to back years give the best comparison. If we have a pair of really good drafts, then I don't know how that reflects bad coaching on the previous coach. Anyway .... last year we had issues with keeping games close as well. We lost to the Bills by 10, to the Giants by 14, to the Ravens by 10, to the Redskins (with their backup QB) by 17, to the Broncos by 22, and to the Steelers by 14. That, again, is 6 double digit losses. I know that you hated Mangini and all, but what you are saying is simply not borne out by the facts. Under Mangini, we lost 7 double digit games in 2009, and 4 in 2010, Under Shurmur, we had 12 such losses in 2 years. We got worse in this regard, not better. The only game I remember the team really lying down and rolling over under Mangini was his final game against the Steelers ..... and everyone knew that he was gone ..... and the team played like it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I could care less about "final" scores...I said "competitiveness" and I saw plenty of uncompetitive play under Mangini, who used to run the ball much more, which by default shortens games and keeps the score close: he was a not-to-lose HC, Shurmur was too but he also threw the ball a lot... Also, aren't you the guy knocking McCoy for always scoring those useless late scores in already lost games? Guess who was the starting QB in those 2 seasons  I know you loved Mangini and hate McCoy but they're in this together, tehy both sucked at what they did and most probably never will do again in the same capacity
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Not to stick up for Mangini, but if he didn't have confidence in McCoy throwing the ball, maybe he felt more confident running the ball?
And you do have to keep the score close if you plan on having a shot of winning in the end.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sure, but when we're talking "competitiveness" I saw a much more competitive team in 2012, filled with young players then the Mangini squads who were filled with vets...that's my whole point...of course maybe others saw it differently, but I actually enjoyed watching us play last season as were in it in every game and often lost because of stupid coaching blunders or inexperience on the field....with Mangini's losses, even some close ones, you just saw the lack of talent (mostly speed/athleticism) to have any hope for the future, the upside was night and day
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Yep, I am that same guy. Just because we picked up a pity score late in a lost game doesn't mean that we were competitive.
Under Mangini, we played a lot of teams very close. The team never gave uo, until that final game when it was common knowledge that he was fired.
The teams under Shurmur had superior talent, especially last year, yet did not play as well overall. Part of effective coaching is putting the team in the best position to win. That can mean a coach shortening a game, as Mangini did, to balance out the opportunities for each team, and to keep the pressure on a superior opponent. Even with far better talent on the roster and field for Shurmur, I never really saw him work to do what he could to level the playing field for his players. He was an ineffective coach in that regard, and Mangini was far superior.
Further, your point that final scores somehow don't matter is rather odd, especially when those late scored McCoy threw in lost games helps prop up your argument. I am not sure why you would bash them, when it turns a 2 score loss to the Raiders, for example, into a 1 score loss. We were not competitive in that game at all, until the 4th quarter prevent defense hit the field for the Raiders. Maybe the team didn't "quit" ....... but they sure didn't play well to that point.
One other thing about Mangini is that his teams were disciplined. He didn't give away yards to the other team with stupid penalties. I fail to see how a team that quit could maintain such discipline.
In the end, Mangini didn't work out here, and neither did Shurmur. The team today does have more talent than it did in 2009, and I think that a large part of that is because of the savage drafts of Phil Savage.
Savage's 2005 draft was abysmal. 2006 gave us DQ. 2007 gave us Joe Thomas. 2008 gave us nothing. He really only added 2 high quality, "cornerstone" players to the team in 4 years drafting. Bleh. For a guy who came in with so much perceived upside and potential, he sure was a disappointment ..... probably the biggest disappointment this team has had since 1999.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Rather than say just MY BAD as Ytown tooled your theory there you chose to discredit yourself  Why? mind you I think you're a good poster n know some football. But Why when you are proven wrong.
Mangini had Squat for talent...Heckert started the rebuild in the draft 2010 but we had diddly for talent. MANY of RAC/Savage were turnover guys. We kept the ones who weren't. But OL not too strong...WRs...Kokinos' fault Robo n MoMass. Just not much...you fault him as a COACH for running a lot 2 wins on that first 5-11 season were garnished with 9 passes thrown n another with 29 yds in the air...What NFL team has ever done that without a blizzard or something (in this new Air Era). And that was with who as a RB Jerome Harrison??
But it was the first time that we started getting TOUGH on the LOS. When we did beat the Steelers it wasn't from Hail Mary's n Come from behind prevent Defenses that we would face in our few wins Prior! We BEAT THEM UP...we beat a great NE team with a Rookie QB. We beat the reigning World Champions Saints with a Rookie QB...come on man.
Now in defense - we went YOUNG in 2011 n I thought continued what Mangini started...as Heckert put specific attention to the LOS. Lava, Pinkston, Taylor, Sheard, Winn, Schwartz, Hughes. So I would suggest our NONE competitive results more due to INFERIOR COACHING (Shurmur) where I thought Mangini was the opposite - he got water out of STONE...Also Shurmur has a vast amount of YOUTH in the build through the draft - again if he was a GOOD Coach he would of had them playing much much better than what they did. But by 2012 we were very competitive I thought regardless of the score but our talent base was SO SO much better than Mangini's in 09 n 2010.
You yourself said he was conservative to keep the games close...well when your team is overmatched that is your only chance to win. ERGO March Madness 4 corners...
Just cause you put your spin "Not-to-lose HC" as if those words eliminate the subject being discussed - Competitiveness. Ummmm what do you think competitive is? Princeton vs. Top Seed kind of team...yeah get into a up n down the court attack n shooting match No way you would get killed cause talent wise YOU ARE OVER MATCHED...well we had very inferior team talent in 09 n 2010...2011 a little better cause it was year 2 of the youth movement but much more talent in 2012 again year 3 of youth movement. So Mangini played conservative to have the games close in the 4th quarter n then have it - ANY THING GOES at least we had a chance...ummm "Competitive" then you lay that not to lose moniker as if that means he wasn't competitive...come on stop the FLIM Flam...I ain't buying BS. Talk Football...man up n just say MY BAD...I will if you disprove my Opinion.
JMHO - just think better of you.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I was very disappointed in the coaching of Shurmer. The play calling and poor execution.
I saw Weeden start to develop and then seemingly taking a step backwards. So no, I expected steady progression in our O and was very disappointed not to see it.
I did see Mangini hire people off the street that played as well as some of the people we had on the field last year. We severely need an upgrade at the G position if we plan to run the ball no matter what.
I'm just at the point I'm pretty much disgusted with most everyone who has been here in the past, including Mangini. Nobody has won here and I'm kind of tired of trying to decide who is the best of the worst.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I know you loved Mangini and hate McCoy but they're in this together, tehy both sucked at what they did and most probably never will do again in the same capacity
Interesting statement both sucked! Basically you're saying it was bad coaching and not lack of talent.
Mangini came in gutted the team, very similar to what Shurmur and Heckert did too, who did not fit their definition of a football player. Mangini, in his first year, knew he was limited in draft picks. He needed guys to fill a team who knew his system. Mangini, based on prior seasons, thought he had a QB in Anderson and first round draft pick Quinn. Now you have a team of "seasoned" veterans or like some like to say old and slow. What are you options? You only have one grind and pound. Defense was mediocre and should be kept on the bench. Best way to do that establish a run game. It all seems very elementary at least to me.
Mangini's second year was a complete transformation in philosophy. He is asked to follow Holmgren's way. It is another change. Heckert was caught in the middle. Does he load up in talent fitting Mangini's style or his?
You do know Mangini had success in New York? If he had a healthy Farve, you kind a wonder how far they would have gone. The media did call him "Manginious." When he started losing and he used BB's style with the media, he was shown the door.
With regards to McCoy, it was said in the beginning given the right surrounding he can be a starter. If you gave a big OL, which Mangini almost had with the exception of RT, a strong running attack, tall good hands receivers, and time Colt can very well become successful. Which if you look back, they drafted Mack, MoMass, Lava Man, and Robo. Heckert traded for Hillis. MoMass and Robo were suppose to be the sure hands grind it out type receivers unfortunately it never happen. Heckert added Little.
In the end, Mangini could have been successful given Holmgren wanted to continue in that direction. Just as you will see with Chud, having a FO backing him and bringing in talent fitting his schemes. It takes the right talent mix to win. By saying Mangini sucked, you are saying you don't care for that style of football. Funny fans say you can't win unless you throw the football, but every year teams who have a strong defense and a balanced offense wins super bowls. Teams building from scratch do one of two things either establish the run or pass. It is much easier to do one first. In Mangini's case, it was predetermined based on talent to build the run game.
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I really don't wanna talk past regimes at this point and who was worse....to me, both Shurmur and Mangini were sub par HCs and I didn't see the competitiveness in Mangini's teams that I did see in Shurmur's, but it's a moot point...back to the Browns now and their hunt for CBs
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I really don't wanna talk past regimes at this point and who was worse....to me, both Shurmur and Mangini were sub par HCs and I didn't see the competitiveness in Mangini's teams that I did see in Shurmur's, but it's a moot point...back to the Browns now and their hunt for CBs
My bad, I thought you wanted to talk stating Mangini and McCoy sucked.
How do you see Browns' current rookie DB's and Owens not improving? Thus, requiring Browns making a huge investment getting a top tier FA. Note I said top tier FA. If he was a young up and coming, injury free, and starting talent, he would not be a FA. Statistically you see a big jump in ability in rookies going into their second year. You also see another big jump going into their third.
In Owens case, statistically you see success from players who played a few years under high profile starters. I would not be shocked if Owens becomes a very reliable DB. I did not say excellent, but we are talking about #2 CB.
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Maybe my view was distorted a bit in hopes Heckert would be retained, but what you said seems like the exact opposite as if you were silently rooting against them because you didn't like the regime? because I can't see how to NOT see the difference between last year's team and, let's say, Mangini's, who you defended to the core..
Dj.......you've changed. It seems like all you care about is making others see it your way. I noticed that right away after the Brown's board closed and you were rubbing some old, old stuff in tab's face.
I don't even want to argue w/you. Mangini had the team playing competitive. Did you think our games against Denver, Washington, and the Giants were competitive this year?
Regardless, I really don't care if you agree w/me or not. I was expressing my points to Pit and was trying to be kind. And you gotta start your crap again. How about we ignore each other for awhile? You aren't talking football and I am tired of it.
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I was very disappointed in the coaching of Shurmer.
I was very disappointed in the selection of Shurmer.
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I'll start by saying sorry to all others for going way off topic.... Here's my entire post again: Quote:
That's interesting Vers and goes to show how much perceptions can differ...I and many other good posters on here (Mourg above all) saw the most talented Browns team in a long time and not onlay that...we saw competitive games all season long. Tell me one thing: did you see them even once lay down and not care anymore? That happend in every 3rd/4th game under Davis, Crennel and Mangini...complete blowouts and uncompetitive/uninsoired play...I didn't see or even sense that once for an entire game...well maybe for the last possession in a 2 score game at the end but even then they played hard and were professionals for the most time.
Maybe my view was distorted a bit in hopes Heckert would be retained, but what you said seems like the exact opposite as if you were silently rooting against them because you didn't like the regime? because I can't see how to NOT see the difference between last year's team and, let's say, Mangini's, who you defended to the core....There was some really bad coaching in both regimes but in terms of talent and competitiveness not even close imho.
Here's yours Vers:
Quote:
Dj.......you've changed. It seems like all you care about is making others see it your way. I noticed that right away after the Brown's board closed and you were rubbing some old, old stuff in tab's face.
I don't even want to argue w/you. Mangini had the team playing competitive. Did you think our games against Denver, Washington, and the Giants were competitive this year?
Regardless, I really don't care if you agree w/me or not. I was expressing my points to Pit and was trying to be kind. And you gotta start your crap again. How about we ignore each other for awhile? You aren't talking football and I am tired of it.
I'll let anyone decide who was talking football/opinion or being personal/attacking. It was never meant personal from my end, in fact I was wondering about different perceptions, that's really what it was all about. I'm sorry to tell you again that you have an incredibly distorted view of what you expect from other posters and how you post yourself. Usually the pattern goes like this: Differing opinion - Shutdown argument "you dont talk football" while not talking one bit of football yourself in the same post...as a poster (I'm sure we'd be ok if we ever were to meet personally) you truly are a bully with a glass chin Vers
That said, you can put me on ignore if you like the board better that way, but you can't tell me not to discuss/dispute stuff you post...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Shutdown argument "you dont talk football" while not talking one bit of football yourself in the same post...as a poster (I'm sure we'd be ok if we ever were to meet personally) you truly are a bully with a glass chin Vers
I wasn't even talking to you. I was talking to Pit. I was actually being nice. Saying how I understood why he was skeptical. Then you come in w/your typical BS and say I was secretly rooting against the past regime. What? 
I live 600 miles away from Cleveland. I maintained my season tickets. Spend a fortune going up there for a few games a year. And you question my loyalty? There is no football in that. It's just you bashing anyone who isn't hating the new regime.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Quote:
Usually the pattern goes like this: Differing opinion - Shutdown argument "you dont talk football" while not talking one bit of football yourself in the same post...as a poster (I'm sure we'd be ok if we ever were to meet personally) you truly are a bully with a glass chin Vers
Been this way forever. I doubt he'll change.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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