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J/C I'm glad that they are looking to filll and give this kid a chance. As others stated the video is impressive but let's see what he has. Would I have like to see Dawson here still.....yes but they have had 3 years to sign him to a deal and it appears to me that he may not have wanted to be there those years. Best of luck to him and hopefully he can get his ring.
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J/C I'm glad that they are looking to filll and give this kid a chance. As others stated the video is impressive but let's see what he has. Would I have like to see Dawson here still.....yes but they have had 3 years to sign him to a deal and it appears to me that he may not have wanted to be there those years. Best of luck to him and hopefully he can get his ring.
I agree that if he wanted to stay here we would not of had to Franchise him the last two years. He sold his house prior to us Franchising him last year. Does that sound like a guy intending to work out a contract to stay??
Love Dawson, wish he could have retired a Brown. But a contract is a two way street. Can't put all of the blame on the Current regime, they took over when they were out of a realistic Franchise tag for him and he obviously wanted to chase a ring being 38yo.
He gave a deal to San Fran who is the Superbowl runner-up. The Browns would not of gotten that deal from him.
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They gave him an opportunity. I'd like to see him kick them with a rush coming at him, but just the kicks themselves are impressive.
I don't think a rush impacts a kicker at all. His focus at the snap is at the hold and spot. He's not looking at the rushers. If it gets blocked, it gets blocked. There is no way for a kicker to hurry things up any more than they already are.
When the holder catches the ball and starts to place it the kicker takes his first stride. The ball is set on the spot and the kicker plants and then he kicks it. Very little time to change anything in the proccess.
I played kicker in high school, I can assure you kicking with a rush and without are very different. You are correct that as a kicker you are not watching the rush, but you are aware that they are there, and you KNOW that they are coming.
The real difference is the inclusion of the snap. Kicking is all about timing, and rhythm. If you have to change your steps because of a bad snap the whole kick is off. So being able to kick a 60 yarder off a tee (while impressive), is not the same as doing so with a live snap and a live rush.
EDIT: forgot to mention that a kicker's stride also starts before the ball is caught.
Last edited by cobrown13; 03/26/13 01:31 PM.
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Well. I did too.
If you were looking at the rush, you were a crappy kicker....sorry.
See the ball in to the holders hands, stride, plant, strike. It's been that way for 100 years.
Unless you can't get the ball up, if it gets blocked, it get blocked.
Strike it pure, then see how it turns out.
Where the stride starts is a question, and a point we don't really need to argue. It starts when it is right....slightly before the catch or on the catch....,who knows?
My only point is the rush doesn't matter.
Obviously it matters in the big picture, but for a guy kicking at the NFL level, he his concerned with snap, spot, and strike....the 3 S's. He isn't worried about the rush.
Last edited by Ballpeen; 03/26/13 08:19 PM.
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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If you were looking at the rush, you were a crappy kicker....sorry.
Sorry to point this out, because it seems like we are agreeing on everything else. But you didn't get the gist of my post and have insulted me in doing so. I clearly state that the kicker is not looking at the rush, but is aware that he is not the only player on the field in live situations.
The mark of a good kicker IMO is being able to block out all that superfluous information, but who knows if this youtube sensation guy has that skill learned.
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If you were looking at the rush, you were a crappy kicker....sorry.
Sorry to point this out, because it seems like we are agreeing on everything else. But you didn't get the gist of my post and have insulted me in doing so. I clearly state that the kicker is not looking at the rush, but is aware that he is not the only player on the field in live situations.
The mark of a good kicker IMO is being able to block out all that superfluous information, but who knows if this youtube sensation guy has that skill learned.
I agree with that 100%.
There are a lot of kickers floating around who can make kicks in practice, with a phony rush coming after them, and the coaches calling off the dogs. However, the ture test is what happens when they face live fire, and a pressure kick with the game on the line. How they do then determines whether they will be a star ...... or watch their kicking career go nova and die out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Someone was going to sign him and give the kid a shot. I wonder how long the contract is for?
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How embarassed would everyone be if the Browns signed Mr. "Kickalicious" to fill Phil Dawson's shoes?
Obviously, "someone" in our front office (Banner) thought "Kickalicious" had a good shot to replace Phil Dawson.
Found this short story on the front offices decision to give the Norwegian boy a try out....
Out goes Phil Dawson. In comes.... "Kickalicious?"
March 22, 2013, 8:22am
On his way out of town, Pro Bowler Phil Dawson remained what he has always been - a class act - taking the time to talk to the Cleveland media, and wishing the best for his hometown of the last 14 years.
So, how does a team replace a kicker so accurate that he nearly broke Hall of Famer Lou Groza's point total while a member of the Cleveland Browns?
If you're Joe Banner, Mike Lombardi and crew, you bring in "Kickalicious".
"Kickalicious" is the nickname of Norwegian field goal trick shot artist Havard Rugland, who has earned tryouts with the Jets, Lions, and Browns through his video of various stunts involving kicking a football through a set of uprights. The video apparently so impressed the Browns that they brought in Rugland even while Phil Dawson was saying goodbye to the Cleveland media.
web page
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Obviously, the judgement our front office was a bit off as their first stab at replacing our Pro Bowl kicker failed.
No doubt, Dawson was and is a class act, which is more than I can say for the Browns front office twins, Banner and Lombo, who did their best to rub Phil Dawson's nose into the dirt, bringing in their trick shot joker at the same time Phil Dawson is saying goodbye to media, the fans and city of Cleveland.
It is that kind of disrespect for veteran players, Joe Banner became famous for in Philly and it looks as if he has no intention of changing now that he is in full control of the Browns. There was absolutely no reason for Banner to be disrespectful to Phil Dawson who saved his best effort for his team and teammates, for last season.
I can only assume Jimmy Haslam approves of Banner's conduct and approved of the actions taken to disrespect Phil Dawson. After all, Haslam insists that he is not an absentee owner...right?
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They brought in a kicker who was signed by another team. Proof it wasn't a off the wall attempt to snub Dawson.
When are you going to answer questions? Again. What is it you want Haslam to do if he was here every day?
But you got it right....Haslam does approve of what Banner is doing...at least to this point, and to this point, a lot of us do. I know I don't have any real problems. I think we've made some great moves.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Obviously, "someone" in our front office (Banner) thought "Kickalicious" had a good shot to replace Phil Dawson.
Actually, it seems like they thought that he was worth a look ...... same as 3 or 4 other kickers it was reported that they took a look at. Doing due diligence if different entirely from "thinking that someone has a good shot" at anything more than a look.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Mac, can you give me ONE FREAKIN reason not to look at a player? Just ONE.. I don't need a paragraph about it,, JUST ONE REASON?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Mac, can you give me ONE FREAKIN reason not to look at a player? Just ONE.. I don't need a paragraph about it,, JUST ONE REASON?
Good question. Don't expect a answer. He never answers questions
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Did Dawson deserve to be disrespected by Banner, like he was?
Phil Dawson is more of a Cleveland Browns than Joe Banner will ever be and instead of telling Phil, thanks for all you have done as a Cleveland Brown since 1999, we do appreciate your dedication to the team, teammates and the franchise, while you were here.
But Banner could not manage the class to do such a thing...instead, Banner and his boy Lombo bring in this joke of a kicker on the "very day" Dawson is saying good bye.
I don't care that Banner moved in a different direction, but he did not have to be disrespectful of Dawson like he was.
You Banner lovers can now begin to make excuses for Banner's actions, but I remind you, this type of disrespect was what Banner became known for in Philly.
Banner even admitted he needed to change, but that was after he was fired. Since Jimmy awarded his investment group buddy with the CEO job and full control over the franchise, I have seen no evidence that Banner intends to change his ways.
The only reason I brought the Dawson subject up again, this story pointed out something other stories didn't...that the joke kicker was brought in the very day that Dawson was saying good bye.
Now go ahead and make your excuses for Banner being a jerk.
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Phil Dawson refused to sign with the Browns forcing them to franchise him the last 2 years; before Banner came here. Dawson didnt want to be here. He sold his house two seasons ago. Why in the world is this Banner's fault?
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Why didn't The Big Show and Heckert sign Dawson the past two years to a contract extension?
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Why didn't The Big Show and Heckert sign Dawson the past two years to a contract extension?
Because he didn't want to be here?
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I really have no idea. I just think it is ludicrous to put all the blame on Banner when H and H had plenty of opportunities to sign the guy.
But, let's not let facts get in the way of a good Banner Bashing!
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Quote:
Did Dawson deserve to be disrespected by Banner, like he was?
Phil Dawson is more of a Cleveland Browns than Joe Banner will ever be and instead of telling Phil, thanks for all you have done as a Cleveland Brown since 1999, we do appreciate your dedication to the team, teammates and the franchise, while you were here.
But Banner could not manage the class to do such a thing...instead, Banner and his boy Lombo bring in this joke of a kicker on the "very day" Dawson is saying good bye.
I don't care that Banner moved in a different direction, but he did not have to be disrespectful of Dawson like he was.
You Banner lovers can now begin to make excuses for Banner's actions, but I remind you, this type of disrespect was what Banner became known for in Philly.
Banner even admitted he needed to change, but that was after he was fired. Since Jimmy awarded his investment group buddy with the CEO job and full control over the franchise, I have seen no evidence that Banner intends to change his ways.
The only reason I brought the Dawson subject up again, this story pointed out something other stories didn't...that the joke kicker was brought in the very day that Dawson was saying good bye.
Now go ahead and make your excuses for Banner being a jerk.
What in the hell is wrong with you man.. I said,, Just give me one reason and instead of answering ONE SIMPLE QUESTION, you give me a paragraph justifying your thoughts.
I don't care what you think about Banner, Haslam or Lombardi. I wanna know one thing and one thing only.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH BRINGING IN A PLAYER TO LOOK AT? Just answer that question, that one simple question..
And of course you can't.. Wanna know why? BECAUSE IT'S NEVER A BAD IDEA TO BRING A PLAYER IN TO LOOK AT HIM. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU'LL FIND THE NEXT JOSH CRIBBS.
Now, either answer the freakin question or shut the hell up about it.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Like I said. He never answers questions.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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What I find the most humorous about all this is, that Banner and Lombardi are actually making some good moves, and are still being trashed.
I was over on the OBR site and the same thing goes n there. It's as if some hope for failure just so they can say they were right. I don't get it. Myself, I try to see the good in something, while these guys thrive hoping for the worst. I say "hoping" instead of expecting, because after years of reading them, that's the conclusion I have come to. They are right once in a while, and even though it means the team suffered, they love to tout it. IMO it's pitiful.
#gmstrong
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Phil Dawson is more of a Cleveland Browns than Joe Banner will ever be and instead of telling Phil, thanks for all you have done as a Cleveland Brown since 1999, we do appreciate your dedication to the team, teammates and the franchise, while you were here.
But Banner could not manage the class to do such a thing..
I agree.
Maybe the team could've released a statement saying something along the lines of:
"We want to thank Phil for all of his years of service to the Cleveland Browns. He accomplished a great deal in his time here on the field, as a team leader and in the community. We know how much Phil meant to our organization and our fans, and he will always hold a special place in our franchise’s history and with the city of Cleveland. We want to wish Phil and his family the best of success in San Francisco.”
Oh, wait.
That's exactly what they did.
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Quote:
Quote:
Phil Dawson is more of a Cleveland Browns than Joe Banner will ever be and instead of telling Phil, thanks for all you have done as a Cleveland Brown since 1999, we do appreciate your dedication to the team, teammates and the franchise, while you were here.
But Banner could not manage the class to do such a thing..
I agree.
Maybe the team could've released a statement saying something along the lines of:
"We want to thank Phil for all of his years of service to the Cleveland Browns. He accomplished a great deal in his time here on the field, as a team leader and in the community. We know how much Phil meant to our organization and our fans, and he will always hold a special place in our franchise’s history and with the city of Cleveland. We want to wish Phil and his family the best of success in San Francisco.”
Oh, wait.
That's exactly what they did.
You know ..... I was reading through the first part of your response ..... and thinking "Man, that sounds really familiar" ..........
Then I read the rest and realized why. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Phil Dawson refused to sign with the Browns forcing them to franchise him the last 2 years; before Banner came here. Dawson didnt want to be here. He sold his house two seasons ago. Why in the world is this Banner's fault?
It is not possible to refuse something you were never offered. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Quote:
Phil Dawson is more of a Cleveland Browns than Joe Banner will ever be and instead of telling Phil, thanks for all you have done as a Cleveland Brown since 1999, we do appreciate your dedication to the team, teammates and the franchise, while you were here.
But Banner could not manage the class to do such a thing..
I agree.
Maybe the team could've released a statement saying something along the lines of:
"We want to thank Phil for all of his years of service to the Cleveland Browns. He accomplished a great deal in his time here on the field, as a team leader and in the community. We know how much Phil meant to our organization and our fans, and he will always hold a special place in our franchise’s history and with the city of Cleveland. We want to wish Phil and his family the best of success in San Francisco.”
Oh, wait.
That's exactly what they did.
PDR....I did not realize Joe Banner made the statement above.
...OH WAIT..Banner didn't say that...matter of fact, the words quoted are not attributed to any individual, are they?
I thought I was clear, that the issue for me is "Joe Banner" and his history of how he treated his own players in Philly and now with the Browns.
Would have been a class move by the Browns to have Dawson and someone from Browns, together in the media room reading the statement quoted, thanking Dawson for his years with the team...allowing Phil to use the event to say his thanks to the fans, the team and his teammates.
But no one with the Browns cared enough about this player to even think of having such an event. Instead, Phil Dawson had to say his goodbyes via twitter.
Sure would have been a great opportunity for Banner to show some class and to show everyone that he truly is working to change his ways. But for some reason, Banner could not bring himself to do it.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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...OH WAIT..Banner didn't say that...
Did he, or did he not say that? I sure hope that he did though... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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And still no answer.. 
#GMSTRONG
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WHAT IS WRONG WITH BRINGING IN A PLAYER TO LOOK AT?
daman...not a thing wrong with bringing a player in for a look.
That said, you missed the point the article made about the timing of bringing the trickshot kicker on the very day that Dawson got the boot from Banner.
I'm still trying to rationalize the logic of the Browns (Banner), giving the boot to veteran players who are performing at a level among the best in the NFL.
Why were Dawson and Cribbs given the boot by Banner?...we know it was not due to their performance on the field.
Dawson and Cribbs were given the boot because they fell under Banner's "30 and out" rule. The rule, in general, applies to your veteran players who are at, near or over 30 yrs of age and basically the rule stipulates or implies that your veteran players over the age of 30 are not worth resigning.
So now, in addition to the other holes that need to be filled or upgraded on the team, Banner created two more needs, because of his "30 and out" rule. I have very serious doubts that the Browns will be able to "upgrade" the team at the Kicker and Kick/Punt return, this season. I can't help but ask myself, how many wins will these moves cost the team in 2013?
To be clear, I'm not saying that Dawson and Cribbs should never be replaced...but while the team is still being rebuilt via the draft and has holes to fill in several areas on both sides of the ball...why create more holes to fill, just because those veterans are going to be 30 or more years old?...holes to fill with players who are very likely, not going to be as good as the veterans you just gave the boot to !
It is an idiotic rule that no other franchise in the NFL adheres to, which should tell Browns fans something about Banner's football IQ.
Last edited by mac; 04/13/13 08:58 AM.
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RelaxzzzZ! Don't think we will land ol "Kickalishus" anyway.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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daman...not a thing wrong with bringing a player in for a look
Thanks, that's all I wanted to know
As for the rest of your rant.. Grow up. Banner Bashing will never become a recognized sport.. No sense in practicing.
#GMSTRONG
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j/c
Actually Mac n Vers are both correct:
Mac...I too think it was disrespect towards Dawson. We should have offered him the 3 year contract he was looking for to stay here.
Banner: did not have the option that Heckert did the last two seasons of the Franchise TAG...if we did so it would have gone to the avg. of Top 5 contracts not of kickers but the entire NFL...so basically we would have had to pay him Elite QB money. obviously not an option that Heckert had the last two season.
Vers...You are correct also as in 2011 n 2012 Dawson's contract was up n he was seeking respectively a 5 year contract then a 4 year contract (this year a 3 year contract) and Heckert refused to make that contract offer n Franchised him instead.
So in my mind I blame Heckert (whom I am a big fan of) 67% n Banner 33% in losing Dawson.
To the Dawgs n there are several who think Dawson spurned the Browns. Yes, he sold his house n moved his family to Texas where he will be retiring BECAUSE HIS CHILDREN were becoming of age to establish themselves into a school system. This is true - just being a sensible FATHER.
It had nothing to do with the Browns. Actually Dawson had a plan. He is looking to retire at 41. Why he asked the Browns for a 5 year contract in 2011 n 4 year in 2012 n now a 3 year contract for 2013. He did not spurn the Browns...he wanted to finish his career here n had a state of mind in his plan. Heckert n then Banner both spurned that premise n did not cooperate.
Initially when he sold his house I too thought oh he doesn't want to finish a Brown. But I did find out that was not the case. He wanted to remain a Brown n finish a Brown n of course finish ON TOP OF THE NFL. Establishing his retiring house n neighborhood along with School system for his children. Was just intelligent n being a good parent.
Mac...I'm curious why bring up a 1 month old article to bash Banner n Haslam when this is not news n the kid Kickalicious has signed with another team. And even if he signed here. HE WOULD COMPETE with others. I think right now we got 2 Kickers for our camps. And I can guarantee you something else...we probably tried out 5-7 other kickers that just didn't have the media notoriety of Kickalicious. Not UFA kickers but kids who were Walk ons at college n got the kickoff duties or things like that who have worked hard on their kicking skills in hopes of making it in the NFL. Ohhhh there are probably 1,000 such candidates...and I will tell you this somewhere in that 1,000 is a pro-bowl kicker that might never get the opportunity. So if we bring in 10 such cases n try them out...this is not to be laughed at as disrespect to Dawson...he is unfortunately GONE. We are moving forward n doing our due diligence, I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted one in the 5th, 6th or 7th rounds.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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I loved Dawson.. Didn't want him gone at all. But I understand it.
He's 38 and by the time we are in contention, he'll be in his 40's and most probably nearing the end of his career. Granted, that's just a possibility. And he's expensive.
I don't know if they thought this way, but my thinking is, now is the time to look for the next kicker.
Having said all of that, I think they could have handled it better. That was shabby treatment for a guy who played here all those years and always performed beyond expectations.
Banner and Haslam need smacked up side the head for that.
As for Vers and Mac, I honestly didn't read what you are referring to with regards to Vers so I can't speak to that. But Mac, he's just going off on Banner relentlessly. And for mostly no good reasons whatsoever.
With the exception of a few moves (letting Cribbs and Dawson get away) everything else has either been to upgrade a part of the team or as Ytown put it, Chum (guys that will come and go and are for the most part, meaningless)
In two weeks, we'll see what he does in the draft. And what he does in the days following the draft with UDFA...
I have no problem with people hating on the FO,, but geez, how about we let them do something worth the hate first....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm full aware of Mac...just trying to lace logic with honey by pointing out some you are right with this or that. I am actually conducting a study to see if I can actually get Mac to state.."You know you are right" I already know he will never ever do that if you contest him. But I'm trying to throw him a Lamb Leg Bone to see if I can undo his training to be an attack dawg... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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It will be very interesting to see how "Mr. Kickalicious" pans out in Detroit. Props for them giving him a chance. BTW, remarkable video (if you haven't see it). http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ziskQnL4wGE
Last edited by 3_and_out; 04/13/13 10:43 AM.
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Saw it - most impressive was corner kick...too bad it cannot be applied to football. Kid has grown up with a ball attached to his foot - no doubt about it. I am curious how he will react to 2 Tons of Monsters coming at him...lol  ya never know.
I think our best bet is to take one of the top college kickers with one of our two 5rh round picks 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Posts: 13,205
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Quote:
RelaxzzzZ! Don't think we will land ol "Kickalishus" anyway.
If we do, please tell me we're NOT going to call him "Kickalicious", or K-Lish, or something like that. These nicknames are becoming so annoying. Or is that just me?
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Quote:
I'm full aware of Mac...just trying to lace logic with honey by pointing out some you are right with this or that. I am actually conducting a study to see if I can actually get Mac to state.."You know you are right" I already know he will never ever do that if you contest him. But I'm trying to throw him a Lamb Leg Bone to see if I can undo his training to be an attack dawg...
LOL,, Good luck with that.. in your absence, he's never changed.. I'll give him points for consistency however
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dawson may, or may not have wanted to be here. We'll never really know for certain.
I know that some say that he did, but if he did he would have signed a long term deal when one was on the table over the past couple of years.
He also has said that he really wanted to know what it's like to actually kick for a winning team. He's done that .... what ..... 2 times in his career? I don't blame him for looking elsewhere.
He also mentioned that he wants to get into coaching when he is done playing, and wants to learn what he can from Seely. Face it, Phil won't require a ton of coaching, so he can watch and learn from one of the best in the business.
Also, on our end, does it make sense to bring Phil back to a team that might well be a 5-8 win team? To me it makes just as much sense to start working on finding that next great kicker. It's what Banner did in Philly. They had David Akers, and he signed with the Niners and had a great year. Then he went in the toilet.
The Eagles, in the meantime, drafted Alex Henery in 2010. he had a great pair of years so far. He's young. He can still be with the team (they hope, anyway) when they turn the corner into being a winner again.
Hard to argue with that, especially when you look at what happened to Akers.
I like Dawson, and I wish him well in Frisco. I hope that we find an excellent replacement for him as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns give tryout to
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