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It's relevant when put into the context that TR was somehow throwing Weeden under the bus by making that comment....when it could be made about any rookie qb.
So, Richardson is the bad guy here because Weeden failed to perform? Really?! Come on now. You don't really expect us to swallow that argument, do you?
I think TR stunk it up just as much or more than Weeden.
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I understood what you were saying the 1st time. I don't see why it wasn't clear to everyone. Perhaps they were reading with an expectation for what you were going to say and the verbiage was close enough that to understand your meaning they would have to actually think about what you were saying.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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We might keep Colt, but I like your logic on this one.
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why the heck would we want to get further away from the cap when we need our average to be closer?
So, we should pay Gocong 4.5mil? McCoy 2.3mil as a no3 QB (paid more than Weeden and Campbell...hows that for the locker room?) just to spend the money?...obviously the answer is NO, you do it to increase VALUE. We could probably re-sign Mack and Ward with that money alone...speaking of....since this was such a relatively "cheap" FA overall, NOW is the perfect time to get a deal done with our own guys....this year's FA numbers are still fresh in any player's and agent's minds
I agree but at the same time... we need to be ay 89% of the cap floor cutting 9 million is like cutting 5% of a number we are already far away from. I believe that we really need to be a min of 14 million away from the cap over a certain period of time. ( I think it's a 4 year average)
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Good read. Thanks. Sounds like a really good signing when considering his value as a backup, his excellent attitude, and the value of his contract.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Come on jf what the heck possessed you to defend a rookie QB season who was a Brown...all Brown prospects suck n we are forever doomed.
Trent said something on the side - btw he talked a lot more about Weeden in a good light.
It was obvious Weeden had a problem reading the defenses. RG3 n Luck...well they did have the luxury to be an offense that just wasn't as complicated as the Phone Booth routes n reads involved. Oh n don't forget he had that great leadership telling...DON'T THROW AN INT. At least there wasn't a negative thought involved to have him hesitate n hold onto that ball...lol 
But obviously Campbell was brought here as the ANSWER cause we all know how successful he is as an NFL QB.
Obviously I'm suppose to write that all in Purple (which btw is hard to read) why not just pick black...lol
Weeden did not play well last year - he was not in a comfort zone often. His positives do fit in what Chud/Norv are drawing up...much more so than the Shurmur/Holmgren offense. 28 does not excuse the fact that he was a rookie. All that meant is he is more apt to not go out Drinking n doing immature things. He had his 4 years of college ball n heading into the very fast moving NFL. The hardest transition for a QB. All rookies struggle. All rookies got dummy downed version of the play book n simple reads - All? I wonder if Weeden did?
If Weeden does not take this serious n study n work hard - he will not be in the NFL at least not on this team. Campbell happens to fit in the skill set needed for this Offense. The difference between the two is not the 2 years of age many are pointing at. Its the fact he has been in the NFL for 8 years n his years of progressing are over...What you see is what you get.
Weeden on the other hand had one season in a pretty bad system with questionable leadership. His Progression is just starting n is a PROSPECT regardless of the age.
Evaluating the sum worth of a QBs career in their rookie season is just wrong.
We'll see who will struggle of the 3 successes as they get the entire playbook thrown into their laps. Redskins OL sucks n so does the Colts. RG3 is rehabbing from a knee injury and Colt was the most knockdown QB in the NFL. Both are probably the best 1//2 QB ever in the drafts. Previously for every Payton Manning there was a Ryan Leaf. I just hope the NFL doesn't lose these two great QBs to the pounding they will get.
Shanahan...shame on him...man Shurmur took a lot of grief for putting Colt back in with the Concussion. Shanahan should be strung up. Also saw a replay of the Broncos 98 SB...TE Sharpe...was knocked silly - asst. told (on NFL FILMS clear voice) Shanahan to note that Sharpe cannot remember the plays - he didn't blink an eye n sent him in...to this day he states he doesn't remember a thing from that day. I don't care if the concussion stuff wasn't in the forefront. You don't put a guy back in who thinks he's Batman! Sorry as I drift...just stupidity by supposed smart coaches get me sick!
Weeden still has a shot...I said from the get go. Because of his age, because he was not an investment by this new Regime he wasn't going to get more than this year to see a lot of hard work n progress. Oddly his skill set fits what Chud/Norv are looking for so he could have been a pick by them. I do think Lombardi was 100% correct...the pick of Weeden was a desperate pick by Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur cause he didn't remotely look like what they wanted. So the big difference between Campbell n Weeden is there is still hope Weeden can be a Franchise QB...Campbell has his destiny spelled out for him. All this he is terrible last year he will be terrible this year he will be terrible his entire career...is just a bit premature.
Trent stated the truth...but he also stated a lot of good about Weeden which oddly don't get the print that the ONE NEGATIVE he stated about Weeden. Weeden had questions about Shurmur and his offense...this I know. He also wanted Cribbs out there as they were hitting it off in practice n didn't get that support.
Also not saying he did great - but in all this Ed Reed FA stuff was I the only one throwing up over n over again as there was a 20-30 yard pass thrown to the left sideline and Benjamin is just standing there as yes, Weeden floated the pass instead of zipping it. And Ed Reed comes swooping in from the middle making the INT. Benjamin just standing there without one step towards the ball n fight for it. Sorry I see Cribbs in that same position coming back n Catching that ball n no way in heck just sit back n let Reed INT it. Weeden didn't have it hunky dory - He had two rookie WRs out there a lot in a very complicated offense...Little who finally started to GET the Offense around mid season 24 games into the new Offense. What all forget it was a very complicated offense which included the reads...but it was not just Weeden making the reads...the WRs had to make the reads as well. Ya think that might of contributed to the Hesitation n "TRUST" in the presnap reads? Yes, Luck had some youth in there too but he also had a Great Veteran Leader in that Corp. teaching WR n QB alike.
We had Shurmur.
There is no guarantee Weeden makes it. He gets this year. He fits this system. He will be 30 no denying that. These guys will draft a QB regardless of the success of Weeden if the right one falls into their drafting slot. I don't see that happening this year unless maybe Manuel is there in the 3rd round. As for reads...how can I claim easier reads? Last year we utilized a triangle route method which flooded zones (gee once upon a time all NFL teams ran zone  ) that required both WRs n QB to make the proper reads - If wrong the area is full of defenders n the mistake had a high % for an INT. Oh n he was told - DON'T THROW AN INT!  smh
Now in a Vertical stretch there is MORE ROOM as the field is stretched the read is easier the routes are basic. Your reads are not from LBs or Zone blitz in the congested area. The read is the more simple Safety if the there is cover two or Cover 3 Press or dropping back. When you look into a triangular area there are 3-4 Defenders in the area that have to be read correctly. I'm telling you the system we ran last season was very complicated. I know I can tell you all my opinion of Weeden after about game 8-12 of this season. Right now...it could be good or bad I don't know there is not conclusive evidence from his play of last year. And you know what? Every thing our teams is doing seems to be on that same wave length n we are talking about Chud n Norv coming with that as they name Weeden as King of the Hill if they were desperate as in Weeden SUCKED FOR SURE like some might think here. These guys with the film on Weeden note they also watch film on practice as well as games. Think Weeden can be the guy all be it for only a 5-8 year period. When they throw him by the wayside...thats the day I give up on him as well 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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jc
Campbell's contract is for 1.5mil in 2013 and 2.25mil in 2014.
This is excellent value. We actually save cap money by adding Campbell and releasing/trade McCoy. Very good job. That leaves us about 27mil under the cap, with 9mil easily to be added on top
Weeden, Campbell and T.Lewis eat up just 3.7mil of cap space for 2013...Colt McCoy's cap number is 2.3mil
9 mill? for who?
We are 27mil under the cap and still have those contracts in it
Gocong (4.55mil) + McCoy (2.3mil) + Usama (2.15mil) = that's net 9mil that will/should be cut without taking any accelerated cap hit
We are about 35mil under the cap virtually....
why the heck would we want to get further away from the cap when we need our average to be closer?
We can carry over the amount we're under the cap into future seasons, for one thing. (when there might be more appealing fee agents, and/or we might need to resign our own guys)
As far as Campbell's contract ...... I see several paths with this ....
1) Weeden succeeds, and Campbell is a strong mentor to him. Campbell remains for next season as well, and maybe is resigned beyond that.
2) Weeden succeeds, and the team feels that he can do well without Campbell on the team, so they release Campbell nest season and bring in a less expensive backup.
3) Weeden fails, and Campbell steps in as the starter for part of this season, and into next season while a rookie is groomed. Maybe he plays half a season, and then the rookie takes over. Campbell then assumes the mentor role.
4) Weeden fails, and Campbell retains his role from this year, as a backup/competitor/mentor, who can step in if the rookie struggles.
5) We draft a rookie QB in this year's draft, and he beats out Weeden and/or Campbell for a job, and one or the other is released.
There really is nothing bad that happens with Campbell's deal. Even if he is forced to start and flops, then we could be in position for a QB high in the draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Case closed? LOL......it wasn't a reading comprehension problem. At best, it was a problem w/being able to communicate via the written word. However, it is more likely he made a slip of tongue and is now trying to cover himself. After all, he did scream something like this at the end of his first post: All Rookies Struggle!
No, it was a case of a knee jerk reaction by someone who saw Bw , RGIII, and Luck in the same sentence...and before reading the entire post got a woody to be the first one to say "you can't compare BW to them!“
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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jc
Campbell's contract is for 1.5mil in 2013 and 2.25mil in 2014.
This is excellent value. We actually save cap money by adding Campbell and releasing/trade McCoy. Very good job. That leaves us about 27mil under the cap, with 9mil easily to be added on top
Weeden, Campbell and T.Lewis eat up just 3.7mil of cap space for 2013...Colt McCoy's cap number is 2.3mil
9 mill? for who?
We are 27mil under the cap and still have those contracts in it
Gocong (4.55mil) + McCoy (2.3mil) + Usama (2.15mil) = that's net 9mil that will/should be cut without taking any accelerated cap hit
We are about 35mil under the cap virtually....
why the heck would we want to get further away from the cap when we need our average to be closer?
We can carry over the amount we're under the cap into future seasons, for one thing. (when there might be more appealing fee agents, and/or we might need to resign our own guys)
As far as Campbell's contract ...... I see several paths with this ....
1) Weeden succeeds, and Campbell is a strong mentor to him. Campbell remains for next season as well, and maybe is resigned beyond that.
2) Weeden succeeds, and the team feels that he can do well without Campbell on the team, so they release Campbell nest season and bring in a less expensive backup.
3) Weeden fails, and Campbell steps in as the starter for part of this season, and into next season while a rookie is groomed. Maybe he plays half a season, and then the rookie takes over. Campbell then assumes the mentor role.
4) Weeden fails, and Campbell retains his role from this year, as a backup/competitor/mentor, who can step in if the rookie struggles.
5) We draft a rookie QB in this year's draft, and he beats out Weeden and/or Campbell for a job, and one or the other is released.
There really is nothing bad that happens with Campbell's deal. Even if he is forced to start and flops, then we could be in position for a QB high in the draft.
I doubt we see a FA class like this again for a while esp with the big rookie contracts almost all ending in the next year or the following year.
You realize that we have already rolled it over twice now?
we will probably need to spend about 40 million next year (on top of what we have on contract now) to get to the 89% level.
if one of our players like Mack, Ward, Young, don't sign back it will be even harder to get up to that number without front loading the crap out of contracts. (which can still come back and bit us in the backside because if we have 10 top players that are all front loaded (like others suggested we won't have the ability to keep them in 3 years because we would have to spend 80 million or give them even more front loaded contracts and severely overpay for their services. Hence why I care about getting closer to the cap number
Plus, think we have like 7 mill in dead money this year and form what I remember... nothing next year.
We also have 21 free agents next year and again in 2 years we will turn over 80% of our roster...
that's a different conversation though because it's one heck of a creative way to purge a roster next year so the fans don't realize we just cleaned house in 2 years (till the 2 years passes)
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Bingo !! Django, finally someone else who sees what it's all about $$$$ plain and simple, plus the fact that Campell can take the beating and McCoy can't.The Browns save about a million with the move and get a guy who can take the hits better, maybe ? Colt, would have made $2.3 mill this year, Campbell gets $1.5 and can be cut next year. We need the cap space, because we have to sign Mack, Haden and Ward to new contracts. If Weeden flops or goes down Campbell gets his average career wins 4.5 per season and we pick probably top 5 again next year. When the QB class will be strong, so we sign Weeden to a low ball contract, cut Jason and his $2,.25 mill contract. The defense should give up a lot of points, as we need 3 corners, 2 safties and 4 linebackers in order to play the 3-4 defense the right way. So, like it or not we're starting all over again, only with better talent than before thanks to Heckert. Who also left us with the cap space like he did in Philly for Banner to blow up there.  The future of this team is riding on this draft, if it's not a A- or B+ we are in big trouble and Banner & his side kick Lombardi should be canned. The bottom line is: new coaching staff, front office, two overpaid free agents (with very little experience) and a whole new concept. Maybe we get to finish 3rd in the division this year, but don't bet the ranch on it. 
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Ytown correct me if I'm wrong. I think the new CBA starting with this year has the rule regarding the cap as the following:
Starting with 2013 along with 14 n 15...The three seasons NFL teams HAVE to have established an AVERAGE of those 3 seasons to be 89% of the cap...n hence forth from 2015 must be minimum 89% of the cap. Bengals n us are neck to neck with available Cap room both of us 14-15 mil to make up - Not sure, Did we just extend DQ? And was that in the 28 mil cap space that I read recently???
Next year we Got Mack, Lava, Skrine, Pinkston n Ward 100% to re-sign n Haden as a possible Extension. Sheard as a possible Extension??? To eat into the Cap?
Also Banner was very clear again in his Accounting Logic. He had a number amount to be used this year n the rest next year (note a lot of contracts are 2 year deals, not the big 2 investments) so that there would be a rotation of available NEW CAP SPACE...meaning 2015 guys get dropped + new raised cap space from 2014 n 2015 we have room to make key acquisitions or re-sign Prospects who deserve it.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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We have to spend 95% of the maximum cap.
The salary cap is set at $123 million for 2013. That means that we have to spend a minimum of $117 million against this year's cap.
There are no limits to how often we can continue to roll over salary cap space ... within the rules of the cap minimums.
We're going to see bigger free agent classes in almost every year now. Teams are only signing draft picks for 4 years. Any player they don't resign in his 4th season become a free agent. In previous years, years were signing 1st round picks to 5-7 year deals. Sam Bradford, for example, signed a 6 year deal as a rookie. We are now seeing those coveted "mid 20's" players in free agency a lot more often than we used to. I believe that free agency is going to become a much bigger part of NFL life than it used to.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/25/the-cba-in-a-nutshell/Salary cap: The salary cap is set for $120.375 million in 2011. That’s actually about $6 million less than the salary cap was back in 2009, the last year the cap was in place. It’s important to note the cap will rise with revenues. (Future television deals.) 2011 salary cap flexibility: Even though the salary cap was ostensibly scaled back, teams were given two avenues to make it easier to retain high priced veterans this year. Teams can “borrow” $3 million against future salary caps to pay for veterans. They can also use another $3.5 million in what would otherwise be performance-based pay to use for veterans. So the cap really isn’t $120.375 million. It’s basically $126.88 if teams want it to be. An extra $6.5 million won’t save guys that truly deserve to get cut, but it will make life easier for teams near the cap limit. Salary floors: Players accepted a relatively low salary cap in exchange for the raising the minimum teams have to spend. This can’t be underestimated. 99% of the salary cap must be spent in cash in aggregate between 2011-2012. The league-wide number falls to 95% after that. Teams must spend at least 89% of the cap from 2013-2016 and 2017-2020. This helps ensure teams that were way under the cap in recent years like the Bengals and Bucs spend more. This helps ensure teams that were way under the cap in recent years like the Bengals and Bucs spend more.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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...Also Banner was very clear again in his Accounting Logic. He had a number amount to be used
According to all I've read, this is his area of expertise and I'm (relatively) comfortable with that. He'll likely keep us out of cap hell for the duration of his tenure ( I trust) allowing us to dabble in the FA market each year as necessary. This is a good thing (thanks, Martha).
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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We have to spend 95% of the maximum cap.
The salary cap is set at $123 million for 2013. That means that we have to spend a minimum of $117 million against this year's cap.
There are no limits to how often we can continue to roll over salary cap space ... within the rules of the cap minimums.
We're going to see bigger free agent classes in almost every year now. Teams are only signing draft picks for 4 years. Any player they don't resign in his 4th season become a free agent. In previous years, years were signing 1st round picks to 5-7 year deals. Sam Bradford, for example, signed a 6 year deal as a rookie. We are now seeing those coveted "mid 20's" players in free agency a lot more often than we used to. I believe that free agency is going to become a much bigger part of NFL life than it used to.
how is the information that you have and what I have so different?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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jc
I've been kind of warming up to this signing. I still don't think it's "what's we need", but I guess outta the selection we indeed had to pick from - the FO did okay.
But still, QB is still our weakest link IMO, unless Norv and Chud can bring out the potential in Weeden/Jason and either of them has a stellar season as starter - then we'll be shopping next year for a QB too...
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You're worried about the unallocated cap space and unspent money right now.
According to your post, we have to "spend" at least 89% of our salary cap in cap dollars this season. We also have to spend, in cash, at least 95% of the salary cap amount. In other words, our salary cap has to be at least $110 million against the cap, using cap calculations of pro-rated bonuses, guarantees, and so on. We also have to spend at least 95% of the salary cap amount in cash this year. The amount against the salary cap is calculated as it has been calculated in previous years. The new factor is the "cash" side of things. This means that we have to spend 95% of the cap amount in 2013 salaries, cash bonuses paid, and signing bonuses paid out this year.
This means that Kruger's deal and $6 million signing bonus count 2 ways.
His salary counts against this year's cap, as always. So does 1/5 of his signing bonus.
On the cash side of things, his salary and the entire signing bonus count against this side of things.
So, his "cap number" for 2013 is $715,000 (salary) and $1,200,000, (1/5 of his signing bonus) for a total 2013 cap number of $1,915,000.
The 2013 cash value of his contract, the side that accounts against the 95% of cash value spent side of things is all cash spent on Kruger that is paid this year. Thus, the entire signing bonus of $6 million, plus his 2013 salary of $715,000 counts as case spent, for a total of $6.715,000 against the requirement to spend 95% of the cap in cash.
The 2 calculations are separate and different.
We have to spend 89% against the cap in salary cap dollars. This means that our minimum salary cap can be no less than $110 million. We can carry over $13 million to next year if we wish.
We also have to spend 95% of the cap in "cash" this year. All cash payments, including all salaries paid this season, all bonuses paid this year, and any contracts redone late in the season that pay cash to a player count towards this minimum. This is not the salary cap, but uses the cap as the basis for the equation to determine the minimum,
It's easy to confuse the 2, but they are distinct and separate equations.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Houston, we have a reading comprehension problem here. This time I'll capitalize the key words. I'm saying that Richardson was NOT throwing Weeden under the bus with that comment....he was simply saying something that's true of ALL rookie qb's. I was DEFENDING TR from those jumping his case about that statement. My comparison between Weeden, Luck and RGIII STOPS at the point that they are all rookie qbs that OCCAISIONALLY had trouble reading defenses. I did NOT compare his talent level to those guys.
Not quite. You stated that all rookie QBs have problems reading defenses at times. I'll expand on that further. All QBs, rookies or HOF QBs have problems reading defenses at times.
You did compare Weeden to other rookie QBs (namely Luck & RG3). You could as easily thrown in Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson and 2nd year (first time starting QB) Kaepernick. Add in other rookies in current back-up QBs Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins. Both of them performed (albeit in limited time) better than Weeden did.
The sooner all the Weeden apologists (and anyone saying that Weeden deserves a second year rightly belongs in this category) admit that their heroes Holmgren and Heckert screwed the pooches by drafting him, the better we'll all be and the conversation on this message board will improve in quality.
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It's relevant when put into the context that TR was somehow throwing Weeden under the bus by making that comment....when it could be made about any rookie qb.
So, Richardson is the bad guy here because Weeden failed to perform? Really?! Come on now. You don't really expect us to swallow that argument, do you?
I think TR stunk it up just as much or more than Weeden.
Okay. Thanks for sharing that. I think you're off your rocker though. 
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Case closed? LOL......it wasn't a reading comprehension problem. At best, it was a problem w/being able to communicate via the written word. However, it is more likely he made a slip of tongue and is now trying to cover himself. After all, he did scream something like this at the end of his first post: All Rookies Struggle!
No, it was a case of a knee jerk reaction by someone who saw Bw , RGIII, and Luck in the same sentence...and before reading the entire post got a woody to be the first one to say "you can't compare BW to them!“
I wasn't having a knee-jerk reaction at all.
I keep seeing this argument that all rookie QBs have problems reading defenses to defend Weeden's consistently poor play. It's gotten to the point that I think it's the media talking points coming out of the White House.
All QBs, rookie or future HOFers, all have problems reading defense from time to time. It's why defenses try to disguise what they're going to do.
What Trent Richardson really said is that Brandon Weeden couldn't read a defense if you could somehow tell him where the defensive players would be in the following 3 seconds and what they'd do, he'd still have huge problems figuring things out.
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Because you posted the 2012 cap and this is the first year (2013) the minimum is in place.
YT, your min number is wrong. It's around 89% (88.8%?) of the $123 MM cap.
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if you can't convince them... confuse them. I'm so lost I don't know which was is down and I'm staring at my feet that are on the ground.  my understanding is that Kruger is 20 mill in dead this year?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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123,000,000 X 89% = 109,470,000. I just rounded it up to $110,000,000.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No player contract has dead money until he is cut.
Kruger has $20 million in guarantees, including his signing bonus of $6 million. Guarantees are allocated as part of normal salaries and bonuses would be allocated, and frankly, I don't know what happen if he is cut. I would assume that the guaranteed money would be paid out in the year due, just as if the player were still on the team. I see no reason that it would accelerate against the current year's cap like unallocated signing bonuses would. I don't know for certain though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Luck had the media up his butt, and his team did better. But he actually had a lower completion percentage than Weeden and thru more INTs. So while he is in my eyes a better QB. He did struggle a little as all rookie QBs do.Luck had around 4 4th quarter comebacks that made up for his many INTs. Luck also was placed in a system that suited his talent. Weeden was not. Tannehill was just as bad as Weeden, yet somehow he gets a pass. Wilson, RGIII.......they were the standouts. Many forget that Weeden was a few dropped passes to having an 8-8 record. I know Gordon and Little both dropped game winners that would have given Weeden a couple comeback wins in the 4th quarter. I'm not claiming Weeden is anything, this season will show that. But the way he is depicted here, you would think the whole season was his fault.The defense gave up a few games too. IMO, most fans here believe that if a Brown's rookie isn't a probowler, they are a bust. That is just assinine. Many of the evaluations some posters on here give are just personal evaluations and not based in any facts. One guy said TR was terrible when he was 50 yards short of a 1000 yard season and had 17 TDs. All while not being able to participate in TC and playing most of the year injured. But in the end, everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, but that doesn't mean the facts are wrong and they are right. Just MY opinion.
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I doubt that all you guys who are bad-mouthing Luck probably did not watch Indy much this past year.
They sucked the year before. They had no offense.
Luck comes in and w/out a top RB and only one quality WR guides his team to 11 wins and a playoff spot.
Furthermore, and most importantly, Luck was asked to do more than any qb in the league last year. Arians would literally put the game in his hands....every stinking game. His completion percentage wasn't high, but the guy was put in so many difficult positions that it was unreal! He was asked to call multiple audibles pre-snap and make tough reads post snap. He also was forced to make a lot of tough throws because of down and distance and because teams defended the pass first.
I fully understand why some of you want to bad-mouth him and diminish all he did for the Cots. You want to make excuses for Weeden, but I ain't buying it. Weeden may very well improve, but Luck faced much tougher circumstances and he passed w/flying colors. The kid is so daggone smart. He is such a gamer. He is very accurate. He knows the game and has a great feel for it. His competitiveness is off the charts. He does have "it." He is simply the best qb to come into the league in quite a while and he will likely be a HOFer, barring injury. So please, stop making crap up just to make your guy look good. Weeden is not a pimple on Luck's butt!
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You forgot to add he Was a Browns fan...lol
Really dawgs were bad mouthing him??? I don't see possible - I fail to see any relevance between the two. Luck n Weeden one is an overall #1 pick to always be compared to Manning (both), Bledsoe, Elway, Plunkett, Couch 
Weeden at #22 compared to Quinn, Rodgers, maybe Ponder?? Brees at 32?
The 2 who have done well...took 3-4 years in the same offense to show their positives.
JMHO - Luck is freaking special. As stated before (I think here) I'm afraid it will be a shame if he keeps getting Beaten up the way he did last year.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I watched a lot of Luck.
Through 3 quarters of every game, you could have changed the name on the jersey to Weeden. Luck made his money in the 4th quarter this year. He proved to be a gamer ... able to rally the troops and have them believe. Confidence is a funny thing in sports. Has a nice cascading affect. I think the Colts caught a little bit of lightning in a bottle personally.
And that's not to say Luck won't be good or even great. The way he played in the 4th quarter and the way he was able to rally the troops is an accomplishment. He certainly didn't have those deer in the headlight looks with the game on the line that Weeden had.
Having said that, we don't need to exaggerate Luck's rookie season either. It was very good. Not even close to showing the capability of an RG3. He was somewhere in the middle of RG and Weeden. Hell, in the Browns - Colts game, you can make an argument that Weeden out played him.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
You forgot to add he Was a Browns fan...lol
Really dawgs were bad mouthing him??? I don't see possible - I fail to see any relevance between the two. Luck n Weeden one is an overall #1 pick to always be compared to Manning (both), Bledsoe, Elway, Plunkett, Couch
Weeden at #22 compared to Quinn, Rodgers, maybe Ponder?? Brees at 32?
The 2 who have done well...took 3-4 years in the same offense to show their positives.
JMHO - Luck is freaking special. As stated before (I think here) I'm afraid it will be a shame if he keeps getting Beaten up the way he did last year.
The only thing is that Weeden doesn't have 3-4 years to start to show positives, he'll be 30 years old just after the season starts. That is why Weeden was such a wasted pick, if he was closer to 20 than he was to being 35 I could let it slide and enjoy the ride, but losing out on legitimate first round talent to draft this sideshow really, really burns.
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Quote:
That is why Weeden was such a wasted pick
Really ...you can determine Weeden was a wasted pick with one year under Shurmur. Really? wow
Joe Thomas #73
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We have a huge divide on how we watch the games. I know that Luck isn't as pretty as RGIII. I know he wasn't the media darling that RGIII was. I know he looks like some inbred from West Virginny, but I also know that he was leaps and bounds a better qb than RGIII.
I am going to let this go for now, but let me just say that you and view the qb position far differently, especially if you think Weeden was anywhere close to Luck.
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Quote:
Quote:
That is why Weeden was such a wasted pick
Really ...you can determine Weeden was a wasted pick with one year under Shurmur. Really? wow
And you can determine that Colt was a wasted pick w/one year under Shurmur during a lockout year where he did not have the benefit of camp and half a rookie season in which he wasn't supposed to start? Really? Wow!
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Yes I can.
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Good for you. And I can tell that Weeden sucks, too.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Case closed? LOL......it wasn't a reading comprehension problem. At best, it was a problem w/being able to communicate via the written word. However, it is more likely he made a slip of tongue and is now trying to cover himself. After all, he did scream something like this at the end of his first post: All Rookies Struggle!
No, it was a case of a knee jerk reaction by someone who saw Bw , RGIII, and Luck in the same sentence...and before reading the entire post got a woody to be the first one to say "you can't compare BW to them!“
I wasn't having a knee-jerk reaction at all.
I keep seeing this argument that all rookie QBs have problems reading defenses to defend Weeden's consistently poor play. It's gotten to the point that I think it's the media talking points coming out of the White House.
All QBs, rookie or future HOFers, all have problems reading defense from time to time. It's why defenses try to disguise what they're going to do.
What Trent Richardson really said is that Brandon Weeden couldn't read a defense if you could somehow tell him where the defensive players would be in the following 3 seconds and what they'd do, he'd still have huge problems figuring things out.
It absolutely was a knee jerk reaction. It's obvious you didn't consider the post I was responding to, or read my entire (though short) reply. You would have recognized that I was only defending TR's comment....not any of the things you're saying. Nowhere did I say Weeden's play was on the level of Luck or RGIII. You overreacted and won't admit it. I sure didn't see where Richardson's comments were in the context you posted....hence how this whole thing got started.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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It's quite simple really. whether people think Colt is or is not a bust at this juncture is irrelevant.
The new coaching staff plans to run a vertical O and colt simply lacks the arm/velocity on his passes to be good in such a system.
His skill set does not match up with the system. Square peg in round hole.
The whole think cracks me up. Campbell was signed by default. There are no great options in the draft. Nobody that really stuck out in the FA market. They needed a veteran and they got one whose skill set fits this O better than Colt's does and cheaper than Colt.
Now people wish to make far more out of it than that and are kicking and screaming over who "The best of the worst is".
It's non-sensical and illogical. NONE of them have shown they are capable starters in the NFL. So in theory, we have NO legit. starting QB. We will simply see the best of the worst play and be called our starter.
Hopefully Weeden will develop into a good starter. Because Campbell has been in the league for what, seven years? He isn't going to get any better. Colt doesn't fit this O.
So as much as you dislike Weeden, you better hope he develops. Because if he doesn't, we are two are three years worse off than we would be if he does develop.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I got exactly what you were saying and it makes perfect sense to me. Really not hard to understand if people had read through the entire thread and followed it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sometimes, you should just admit you were wrong. It would go easier for you. No big deal. We are all wrong occasionally. Here is the first thing you said on the matter: Quote:
So did Luck and RGIII. I don't see this as anything important, he was a damn rookie in the NFL.
That was in response to the TRich's comments about Weeden not reading defenses. Sure doesn't look like you were defending TRich. Sure looks like you were making crap up about Luck and RGIII. Sure looks like you were defending Weeden by calling him a rookie.
Let it go, man. You were wrong. No big deal. But, you are making yourself look bad by blaming others for pointing it out.
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